CleoCaesar

Exactly. It was just stale. It's a sappy 40-minute evening soap - what kind of profound new ground are they going to break with a Vietnam episode? Hell, the Vietnam scenes in Forrest Gump packed ten times the emotional wallop that last night's episode did. Agree completely. Savior complexes are all about the "savior", not the person he/she attempts to help. Enlisting was yet another of Jack's grand gestures (or I suppose in the chronology of the show, one of his first). Yep! It just felt like the writers going "Oh you like Jack? Here's Jack, all Jack, 40 minutes of Jack!". We didn't learn all that much about Jack that we didn't already know: savior complex, had a shitty dad, had a brother named Nicky, fought in Vietnam. We already know his story, and even how it ended.

It's rare that I so completely lose interest in an episode that I space out for entire scenes. That was just brutally boring. At some point I started mentally listing actually interesting things the show could explore: how Rebecca and the kids moved on after Jack died, how Rebecca and Miguel got together, what caused Kevin to cheat on Sophie, how Randall fared in college and got so successful, how Annie and Tess feel about Deja joining their family, literally anything about Kate that isn’t about her weight or her mommy issues. But no. We get this. Jack isn't an interesting enough character to me to merit this kind of treatment (same goes for William). Yes, they had some nominal flaws but they're both so disgustingly perfect that there's nothing to really explore there. It doesn't help that every other character sees Jack (and William) as perfect. It's one-note. Jack is dead. We finally know how he died (a rather dumb death). Let's just move on. So many other characters to get into.

Definitely had an early-seasons feel to it! I'm pleasantly surprised by this season so far. FOX and USA have both been showing season 1 reruns this past week. It's stunning to see season 1 episodes where Luke is a dopey little kid and then see a new episode tonight where he's handsome and grown up. Sometimes I forget that this show has been on for almost a decade.

From the looks of it, Jack's version of treating her like a princess involved shoveling ice cream in her mouth any time Kate was upset. No wonder she ended up with food issues AND daddy issues. Every episode I wonder what Toby saw in her.

I've amassed so many UOs in this so-far mediocre season already. But I'll start off with a benign one: I find "Katiegirl" a really, really, really annoying nickname.

Only Randall is allowed to be obsessed with his DNA and biological parents, but god forbid Kate want to pass on her father's DNA to her own children. Kate isn’t obligated to adopt just because she hasn’t had success conceiving. And well done for her pointing out that his hypocritical ass had two biological children. “That’s a completely different situation!” Ugh shut up.

Another clunker of an episode. I miss the days of plot twists and actual plot development. And fucking enough with William already. No one cares. My level of interest in Rebecca and Jack: The Early Years? Zero. We know they end up together. I’d much rather see the aftermath of his death, how Rebecca rebuilt her life, and how their awful children fell apart. Laughed a lot at Kevin’s movie. One reliable thing about TV shows: Fiction within fiction that is allegedly brilliant is almost always terrible. That cheesy melodramatic speech at the end of Kevin’s movie? Ugh. Sure, that’s Ron Howard Oscar quality. Then again, the writers of this show WOULD think that cheesy purple prose is good writing.

I really, really hope none of the Dunphy kids are pregnant/get anyone pregnant. They all seem to have an emotional age of about 12, and I can't imagine any of them being parents now.

YES! Exactly. Debra is the example I frequently give too of this phenomenon. Ray was an objectively bad husband and father. He was a manchild mama's boy who never did any chores, didn't like spending time with his kids, always sided with his mommy instead of his wife, the list goes on. In real life Debra would have divorced his ass pronto. They didn't even seem like they liked each other most of the time, much less loved. But of course Debra is remembered in pop culture as the nagging wife. In reality she was the only adult in that marriage.

With Ross and Rachel, yes. But the writers also managed to write a totally functional, loving, drama-free couple: Monica and Chandler. It all comes down to the quality of the couple, i.e. the writing. There's nothing stopping TV writers from creating great couples who don't have cheap breakup drama. It's very possible. My two favorite examples are Monica and Chandler, and Jake and Amy on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Penny and Leonard could have easily been one of those couples. Bit of a "will they or won't they" in the beginning, then getting together and being a functional couple with similar goals, values, and interests all the way to engagement and marriage. Stable couples aren't' necessarily boring. They just need to evolve and grow together. The problem with Penny/Leonard to me is I don't know what's keeping them together. Penny doesn't seem super attracted to Leonard. Leonard can't share any of his interests with Penny. Penny doesn't want kids and Leonard does. Penny finds Leonard's hobbies childish. What do they even talk about? They seem like a couple who only got together because of proximity and stayed together because of inertia.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Bernie gives Howard an allowance because he can't be trusted not to blow his money on toys. Penny always gets her way because Leonard is a pushover. Amy orders Sheldon to play with his phone because he's a toddler who can't act appropriately in social situations. Anu is bossy because Raj has no spine or ability to control his finances like an adult. The women on the show almost have to be domineering because the "men" are so immature. When people say TBBT is "misogynistic", I want to ask "Have you seen how the show portrays men?". The women are the only adults on the show.

That's my point - they had no business getting married in the first place. Children are the dealbreaker.

Uh, no. I'm suggesting he divorce her and find someone more compatible.

That was...bleak. Penny and Leonard just need to divorce. They are the worst married couple on the show and just awful together in general. Why are they even together? The fact that they - like all dysfunctional-in-real-life couples - got married without discussing having children first only makes them even worse. Why is Leonard compromising on this? Is being married to a dumb blonde who doesn't share his interests or have any of her own and seems annoyed by him all the time REALLY worth giving up fatherhood? Raj and the odd girl getting married...uh, okay...

Gloria: "My first boyfriend at his age, he wasn't ready to sleep with me." Cam: "Mhmmm... And what does he do now?" Gloria: "He runs a bed and breakfast." Cam: "With...?" Gloria: "His good friend Steven! ...Shut up!"

I'm watching Mean Girls on MTV as I type this post. It's a classic for a reason. Haley regressing back to Dylan is so disappointing. And I like Dylan. I just preferred the Haley that was more normal and mature when she was with Andy, not this dumb, vacuous Haley. Really good episode in the scenes with the adults.

This applies to the actors playing Manny (!), Luke, and Joe too. Alex is borderline but tolerable. Modern Family really did not luck out with the young actors they cast.

And I'm surprised you didn't pick up on my questions being rhetorical. I get why Randall got pissy, I just think he needs to get the fuck over it already. He's almost 40. He's had decades to have his identity crises and come to terms with things. The fact that he's stunned into furious silence over an offhand comment (that was clearly said in the context of passing on Jack's DNA, which Randall does not possess) is worthy of a few eyerolls.

I still think Annie goes beserk as a teen and eventually lands in prison where Adult Tess and Old Randall will be visiting her. Maybe we're seeing the foundations of her eventual rebellion - Dad being obsessed with an adopted daughter (adopted out of birth order, a no-no), moving homes (in part because of said adopted daughter), and doing grand gestures like quitting his job, buying an apartment building, renovating a community center, etc. etc. I think Annie is darling, but I so want the show to go there. It would actually be good drama.

jmonique, I want to marry your entire post. Randall's obsession with Deja is starting to really make me uncomfortable. It's too intense. It's bordering on creepy at this point. Annie and Tess, who are adorable and wonderful, are being neglected and Deja is being smothered. I'm half-expecting a storyline where he and Deja get too close, if you catch my drift.

Why do these 38-year-old adults seem so much like teenagers? Well-adjusted adults aren't this whiny, self-absorbed, childish, and overdramatic. How Rebecca hasn't murdered all of them is beyond me. Randall's minute-long silence at the very end provoked like ten eyerolls from me. He's not Jack's biological son. Get over it, Randall. Why is this some massive deal? Why does a man pushing 40 have this drama queen reaction?

During the last season finale I thought the "she" adult Tess and old Randall are visiting is Annie in prison, after Annie's resentment at Deja's arrival boils over in her teen years. That would actually be a cool, interesting story. Realistic too. But I guess we need to show more of Kate's whiny pity parties and Randall's insane over-the-top gestures instead.

I'm with you. I think that would be a fitting end for Raj. Plus in real life, not everyone neatly pairs up. It's not Noah's ark. And let's face it, Raj is repugnant to women. Always has been, and presumably always will be. In the early seasons Howard was a gross creep too, but he matured and became a devoted husband and father. Raj is still gross at his core when it comes to interacting with women. Why would a woman want to sign up for that? Keep him single. Just let him have a realization that a life of non-romantic love can also be a good one, with a strong social network of friends (and their children to dote on) and intellectually challenging career. It's not the worst thing by far. And far more true to life in 2018 instead of the "married with 2.5 kids" 20th century default.

MF will always be one of my favorite shows, but even I can admit it's running on fumes now. Stale really is the best word for it. The characters, the plots, the conflicts...it's all played out. Hear, hear! I've been of this opinion for more or less the whole show. Her ditziness was okay in high school but everything beyond that is just sad. Haley is someone I wouldn't be able to stand in real life - her idiocy, her superficiality, her lack of a sense of humor (on display in this episode with Arvin). She's been like this for 9+ seasons now. The character is pure stagnation. With Andy she did show some flashes of growing up and it was downright refreshing. Then the writers forgot about all of that and she regressed. The Arvin thing needs to end ASAP. No chemistry whatsoever. He's annoying and she's even dumber than usual with him. What do they even see in each other?

I'm someone who has no sympathy for Kate's weight issues. There are actual people in the world who are trapped in their bodies thanks to diseases and conditions they can't control, and I count myself among them. Kate needs to lower her daily caloric intake and actually stick to it. No stupid diets or workouts. That's it. She doesn't have a disability. She isn't trapped in any tangible way. Ugh she makes so irritated with her constant pity party. Run far away, Madison, from your toxic so-called friend.