tv echo

I watched that GG interview again and have edited that quote to expand upon what he said, so here's the expanded quote:

Yesterday I posted video of a Showbiz Junkies interview with GG on page 41 of the Spoilers thread, from which I transcribed the following (if you watch the video, he says some other stuff as well) - he meant that he starts to forget the original timeline because his old memories are slowly being replaced with the new Flashpoint memories:

Knowing how MG likes to use Billy Joel song titles, note that "A Matter of Trust" (503 title) is also the title of a Billy Joel song. The song has been described as follows (go to link for lyrics): http://www.onefinalserenade.com/a-matter-of-trust.html The song has also been described as follows: http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=10543 So I'm curious as to what the story is for 503 (which debuts Carly Pope's character and guest stars Cody Rhodes), and whether the Billy Joel song title is just a coincidence or has any relevance whatsoever.

BN talks about writing music for the DC TV show crossovers and for each of the four DC TV shows (nothing spoilery)... --,BN: "At this point, DC clearly keeps their TV and their film universes apart. You know, there's no casting crossovers, music crossovers... Marvel combines them." Blake Neely, JunkieXL Music Composer Interview At Comic Con #SDCC Published on Jul 27, 2016, by Zennie62

The SDCC Fandom interview with MG, as LoT EP... -- Per MG, the Legends will be acting like the Time Masters to protect time. -- Per MG, LoT will be more like Arrow and Flash in terms of having a Big Bad and central mythology for the season but also more standalone episodes. -- On the number of LoT episodes, MG: "We have an order for 13, with the potential for a back 9." -- Per MG, Flashpoint will not affect LoT in the short term, because they're already dealing with changing time and they're basically trying to relaunch the show and that's enough without having to deal with another show's timeline. However, there will be a connection with Flash later on in the season. But Arrow will be impacted by Flashpoint. -- MG talked about the new Legends in S2 of LoT. -- On the possibility of a 5th DC show on The CW, MG: "I'm sure there will be. It would not surprise me in the least. Five nights. Would not surprise me in the least."

I think that they needed to show some changes in the Arrowverse due to Flashpoint without completely screwing up Arrow's past four seasons and Arrow viewers who don't watch Flash. So they threw in stuff like Felicity dating Barry, which can be easily erased and which also gives a little something to Barricity fans, and Diggle's family probably changing to include John "Connor Hawke" Diggle, Jr. They have no problem throwing Felicity under the bus. As for Curtis and Evelyn wanting to become physical fighters - it sounds like there's a lot of crime on the streets of Star City and not enough police out there fighting it due to corruption in the SCPD. So a lot of new vigilantes are copying GA and fighting the criminals. Curtis and Evelyn are just two more of them, who are fighting with heart and little training. From the Showbiz Junkies interview with EBR: That last line reminded me of KC's interviews where she was always talking about how Laurel fights with her heart or from the heart. ("Obviously last season, she was a fighter, she's always been a fighter, but it was a lot more heart. This season, I think it's not just heart; she actually has been training and working on that aspect of herself, the going out at night.") The new vigilantes are like S3 Laurel - fighting with heart but not much training. Remember how, in past cast interviews, Arrow actors would sometimes answer questions by using what turned out to be lines or phrases from upcoming episodes? So I wonder if EBR was repeating a line that Oliver tells Curtis or the newbies in 501 or 502. If so, it makes sense on its own. But in context, it doesn't make sense because Laurel had both heart and training in S4 (presumably) and ended up dying anyway. Unless it's a character point for Oliver - that he maybe feels guilty for Laurel's death because he didn't train her or train her enough before accepting her onto the team.

So Carly Pope (Susan Williams) is going to be in the same episode as Cody Rhodes ("A Matter of Trust"). Now I'm curious. 504 is supposedly the big Diggle & Oliver episode and 505 is the big Olicity episode. So Susan Williams meets Oliver in 503. I wonder if they start dating or Oliver thinks about dating again in 504, and that leads up to Oliver & Felicity having a talk about their relationship in 505.

Geoff Johns Confirmed as DC Entertainment President JULY 27, 2016 1:48pm PT by Graeme McMillan http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/geoff-johns-confirmed-as-president-915028

MG told jbuffyangel that there's a moment in 501 that will be difficult for Olicity fans. So it's very possible that we learn about Felicity's boyfriend in 501 during a conversation with Oliver. Then in Flash 302 we see her visiting Central City. Also, in the Flashpoint-changed timeline, maybe Oliver & Felicity got together and broke up earlier than S4 and never lived together or got engaged. Maybe Barry tells her about the original timeline before he forgets everything, including her real history with Oliver - she's like the secret-keeper - and that's the knowledge she brings back with her to Star City. Maybe Oliver doesn't know about his son in the new timeline because Barry never told him, but Barry tells Felicity. Who knows. ETA: You know how we once talked about how the Flash repeats Arrow's story beats? In a way, Barry's new timeline life living with his parents is like his Ivy Town - the idyllic but not really real reality. Also, apparently, one of Cisco's storylines next season is going to focus on his relationship with his brother.

Some Flash news at SDCC (what struck me about the cast interviews was how much CV had to say about what's happening with Cisco next season, as compared to how little DP had to say about what's happening with Caitlin)... SDCC 2016: WE SEE HOW BADLY BARRY BROKE THE UNIVERSE AT THE FLASH PANEL Bec Heim | July 26, 2016 http://www.4ye.co.uk/2016/07/sdcc-2016-we-see-how-badly-barry-broke-the-universe-at-the-flash-panel/ SDCC 2016: Interviews with the Cast of ‘The Flash’ By Andrew Santos on July 27, 2016 http://www.withanaccent.com/2016/07/27/sdcc-2016-interviews-cast-flash/

Oh TV Fanatic, never change... 14 Former Couples Who Should Just Give Up Paul Dailly at July 26, 2016 http://www.tvfanatic.com/slideshows/14-former-couples-that-should-remain-apart/

Three of those four episodes will probably be part of the 4-show crossover event.

Arrow EP Wendy Mericle Teases New Four-Show Crossover Details Lucas Siegel- 07/26/2016 http://comicbook.com/2016/07/26/arrow-ep-wendy-mericle-teases-new-four-show-crossover-details/

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - Showbiz Junkies interview with EBR (video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread) -- On what the Olicity relationship will start off like in S5, EBR: "I do believe their communication is getting better, um, and I think that has a lot to do with them being in a new type of relationship, you know, past the breakup and having to work together and having a common goal and, you know, trying to decide things and trying to improve, you know, the city, and not only that, but themselves and their relationship. So, it's interesting like how we left off of the Bunker being destroyed and then both just standing strong in a place where they had inevitably destroyed themselves and how their relationship had also kinda been destroyed and broken, and now they had to [unintelligible word] themselves, everyone's still standing strong, I think, was a really good example about where they're going to go, because they end up staying in it and they clean it up and they start, you know, moving around each other obviously in a different way. But, um, their dance will be a little different, but I think it's growing." -- On whether there will be the ongoing element of not being able to fully trust each other, EBR: "I feel like they have trust. I feel like they want to think the best of one another and that can sometimes be a problem, um, because you end up finding out, you know, how much your boundaries move. And I think they're both very strong-willed and they both have very strong boundaries. And it's like trying to figure out where they can let each other back in, so I don't know if it's a trust [unintelligible word] - they both trust that they would save each other's lives, but do they trust each other with their emotions and their heart? And that's different." -- On Felicity having lost her job at Palmer Tech, EBR: "So she owns the company. Right? Cause Ray signed it over to her, um, and then she tried to give it back to Ray and he didn't want it. So she was CEO of the company and got fired from being CEO and, correct me if I'm wrong, but [unintelligible words] CEO, I believe that it's possible that she still owns the company. Um, so in terms of a day job, we haven't really seen much of it." -- On Curtis becoming Mr. Terrific, EBR: "This idea of him becoming Mr. Terrific is awesome. He is going to get the suit. Um, but it's sorta him sorta balancing out. finding out what he can do, because you just don't become - you don't go like from 0 to 100 to be a superhero. You need training... He might have the drive and the goal to go towards, but you have to have the technical training. It can't all just be heart, because then you will end up dying." -- On whether she'll get to do any stunts in S5, EBR: "I haven't yet." On whether she hopes for more stunts, EBR: "I mean, yeah, absolutely. I don't necessarily know if Felicity hopes for more - I don't think that she does, and I have to be respectful of that. I like being active, I'm very physical, so obviously I can be selfish and say that, but she is not. I can't really push her to do that - also cause she hasn't met me."

You may wish to read the rest of the interview (nothing real spoilery, I don't think)... Exclusive Interview with Arrow’s Echo Kellum Annie Worsman July 23, 2016 http://talknerdywithus.com/2016/07/23/exclusive-interview-with-arrows-echo-kellum/

The more I hear about what happens in the comics, the less incentive I have to read them. And what's with the 20-year age differences? GA & BC. Now Batman & Batgirl. I also notice that it's Batgirl and not Batwoman - just like Supergirl and not Superwoman. Yet teenager Peter Parker's alter ego is called Spiderman. I don't get it. ETA: I'm beginning to think that the only reason Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman is because of the alliteration.

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - Showbiz Junkies Interview with WM (video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread) -- WM: "It's not going to be - we're not going to have any sort of terrorist attacks or anything happening this season. But as a result of what happened with Damian Darhk and the general decline of Star City, we're going to have criminals, there's going to be a huge... mob element. And this is all in the spirit of going back to the basics of kind of like - little bit like answering to season 1. More kinda villains of the week. More kinda hand-to-hand, a little bit - going back to like gritty, crime-of-the-week type of things. And Oliver will be a big part of that. We're also going to have a lot of vigilantes who are inexperienced and inspired by the Green Arrow killing Damien Darhk. And they're going to be popping up all over the city, and that's actually going to become more of a problem than a help." -- WM: "There will be more standalone episodes this season. Um, and I think that we'll be - we are looking to kind of go deeper into the bench of villains from the DC Universe, and again... go back to our roots in the way that we had - more season 1." -- On Flashpoint affecting Arrow, WM: "Obviously we live in this universe now where we have things like that happening, we have superpowers, we have metas... You know, it will have an effect on the show. That's about as much as I can say... The characters that are affected, they will feel it." -- In response to a question about how they'll deal with the tension with fans who are staunchly Olicity and fans who are staunchly anti-Olicity, WM: "What's interesting about Olicity is, it's become this big - as everyone knows, this huge thing online and everyone has taken sides. But for us, it was really a byproduct of you cast someone like Emily Bett Rickards and there is obviously chemistry and you start to write to that. And it really felt in seasons 3 and 4 that, if you didn't go in that direction, it was going to do a disservice to the show and to the characters. And so we leaned into it, we went that way, we saw what it could do, and in season 5, we're going to do the same thing, which is, we left them ambiguous at the end of the season and, I will say, you will get some clarity in episode 5 of season 5. But even then, we're going to be - we are going to be exploring it in, actually in real time, to see where the characters are taking us, and where we feel like the best stories are going to be told." -- On exploring Oliver's dual life, WM: “In the past we’ve had him be the CEO, we’ve seen him have somewhat of a public face, but this is a public face that he, for lack of a better term, he can’t B.S. this - he’s the mayor. He has to show up. When he’s not there, people know he’s not there. So we’re going to drive story both in the Mayor’s office and in the Bunker. It’s actually a real challenge from a storytelling perspective because you have to figure out where is his real emotional drive coming from. It’ll be fun. We’ll have a lot of fun with the sort of Superman element of him having a new identity, one that’s very, very public.”

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - The Fandom Interview with WM (video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread) -- On how Flashpoint will affect Arrow, WM: "Yeah, I can tell you that it's going to have - we are going to, you know, we're going to honor it and see what kind of effect it'll have on our characters. It's going to be both, I think - it's hard to say. I mean, it definitely will have an impact on the show, but, I think, it may or may not be what the fans were looking for. I'll put it this way, the [unintelligible word] on Flash will probably be a lot bigger, but we're definitely going to explore - it opens up a lot of storytelling possibilities for us and I think [unintelligible words] at this point... What's cool is that it'll be subtle but you'll feel it immediately, but then, in terms of how big or how small we - how big we take it, I think that will be something you'll feel throughout the season." -- In response to a question about JB's deal and how JB will be used on all three shows, WM: "You know, I think it'll be similar to - you know, there've been deals with Wentworth Miller and also with Katie Cassidy across all shows.. These are characters that fans love, that we love to write for, and I think it becomes a question of, what is the best story to tell for them and where are they best placed? And, you know, John is such an amazing actor and it becomes a question of, is he available and is he right for this story? I know he'll be appearing more toward the end of our season and that's more because of availability than anything else. Um, but I think in terms of how he's placed in the other shows, it's always a dialogue. We always have to kinda - we're all in the same building, we run down the hallway - like 'we need to do this with Malcolm, what are you guys doing with Malcolm right now?' And it's all sorta - it just evolves. And it'll be influenced as well by what they do with him on Legends." -- WM talked about how they keep track of everything that's happening on all three shows. They have people who monitor that stuff and they also have a big chalk board. WM: "For example, when Felicity goes over to Flash, we're going to have to know what she's doing on Flash cause it has a great impact on her - not necessarily her availability - what is she [unintelligible word] on Flash that she's going to be carrying with her into our stories." -- WM said that killing Black Canary was a very difficult decision and it was a matter of which person would have the most impact on the characters. She also said that they're going to honor it and that a lot of stories they're telling on Arrow and LoT couldn't be told unless they had made that decision. -- WM said that magic still exists because once it's introduced, it's still there, but it won't inform their more grounded storytelling this season. Also, she said that Arrow is not bringing in another version of Vixen (that version will be on LoT), so if they could get MEK back as Vixen, that would be fantastic. -- On Oliver's island flashbacks ending in S5, WM: "The flashbacks will be done at the end of the season, yeah. We will always have it, I think, as a potential device. We’ve established this visual language for the show, so we can always do some from a different character’s point of view. But Oliver’s flashbacks, in terms of telling that particular story, this will be it."

This PaleyFest Arrow panel is from March 9, 2013, but I only came across these videos recently and had never seen them before (panel members are Geoff Johns, Greg Berlanti, Susanna Thompson, KC, SA, DR, MG and AK) - posted by The Paley Center for Media on youtube... Arrow - Andrew Kreisberg and Marc Guggenheim Talk About the Popularity of Felicity's Character GJ: "One of the, uh, new additions to the show and she's a series regular next season is Felicity Smoak. (Applause) So can you guys talk a little bit about - this is a minor supporting cast member from the Fury of Firestorm comic book. It has nothing to do - (someone claps) - which is great, but - ... How did you go from that to a regular in the Green Arrow show? ... And are you surprised by it? Because, you know, she has blown up - obviously, people really respond to her." MG: "Less surprised than gratified, I think." AK: "It's really all because of Emily. I mean, truthfully, you know, we wrote that as a - you know, we never intended to, 'hey, we're introducing a new recurring character who one day is going to find out Oliver Queen's secret.' It was just, 'oh, Oliver needed to go to an IT girl, and we decided to make it somebody, you know in Queen Consolidated, and we gave her a little bit of edge, which we thought was fun. And Marc and I saw like - you know, the casting people, they send you the videos of the readings of the, you know, people who come in to read, and she was clearly the best one. And we did it once and, you know, what's going to happen. And, you know, we were watching, you know - sometimes we'll watch the show like with twitter - (MG interjected, "And by 'sometimes,' we mean every week") - and that first episode that she was on, like all of a sudden, it was like, 'hey, who's the blonde IT girl? who's the blonde IT girl?' And, you know, then we were getting feedback from, you know - Peter Roth, who's the President of Warner Brothers, called us and said, 'I love the blonde computer girl.' - (general laughter) - And, um, that first scene with her became proof of concept for what she could be because, you know, Stephen was so funny in that scene, you know, that first scene with her." SA: "I don't think that my character had cracked a smile, you know, before episode 3 when I saw her. And we were shooting that - I remember calling you guys afterwards. I started saying, 'Emily was really great and that was a really fun scene to shoot.' I had a - you know, I'm legitimately laughing at her as she's bubbling away, and I'm so happy, you know, it was getting lonely in the Foundry with Diggle." DR: "It was, it was. I mean, how many sit-ups can I watch this dude so? - (general laughter) - Sad. It was very sad before Felicity." GJ: "You know, some people might love that." Arrow - Greg Berlanti Talks about Choosing Arrow and Casting Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen -- On why he chose Green Arrow, GB: "Arrow was always to me, it seemed like, um, ripe for a TV show, in part because he's a crusader for social justice, which you kinda knew, uh, in the DNA of the show, it felt like, well, that's - there's many episodes of a TV series there. And I would say, the other thing that was appealing to us, uh, was - it's always exciting and interesting - was the possibility of doing an origin story. You know, in a movie you do an origin story and it's the first 20 minutes of the film. But, uh, in a series, you can do an origin - in this instance, you know, for us, it's the island - you can tell that over multiple years. And so much of the DNA of who that character was and the origin of that character and his development on that island just seemed ripe for storytelling. And then there was also, I think, the ability that he was really of our world, you know, and that he was one of us. And so there was that element of it I think the second half of it, just the desire to, uh, you know, uh, for all of us that were involved at the outset, was our experience - (indicating GJ) our experience, and Marc's experience along with us - working together before and, uh, wanting to work together again. And then our experience working with Marc and I both, and Andrew, all came over from ABC where we had worked with Mark Pedowitz, who is at CW now, at the time. So it was really one of those great, kind of things of we all really wanted to work together and bring the character to life, and this just seemed like - he just seemed like the right one. And then, the final thing I'll say about it is, you have all those ideas and you have all those notions, but truthfully, until you have, uh, you know, the director of the pilot and your cast, uh, you don't know if you - you don't, you just have scripts, pages of a script - and you don't know if you have a TV show. And this is - we were so fortunate, from Stephen through everyone we were able to get her, and David Nutter, and everything that everybody brought to bringing it all to life, uh, was for us, that's - you know, as much as you like to think you kinda create the show, before that happens, that's really when the show is created. And, uh - and so, uh, that was incredible." -- On casting SA as Oliver Queen and the day SA walked in, GB: "Yeah, uh, I've never actually had it happen that quickly on a show. Uh, you know, everybody ran down to my office. I said, okay, you know, I had other things I had to go do, and said to Andrew and Marc, if you guys see someone you like, just come back. And I literally walked 10 feet away and it was like two minutes later, you guys were like knocking on my door and I'm like, 'that's - I think you're a little eager... but I'll go in and I'll see whoever.' And we walked in and Stephen was brilliant and - there were two or three scenes he had to do and he - obviously, you know, you're looking for a couple things. You're looking for a great actor that you know can do all the emotion and all the heart and still the damage of this character. And you know that you're also going to have a character who's - he's playing a completely different character on the island. Can he do both those levels? And in addition to that, how much of the DNA of the original character does he sort of - do you feel like you're sorta seeing Oliver Queen when you're sorta around him? And we all kinda had that collective feeling. The thing I'll say is, then the show goes to get advertised and stuff, and they have him shirtless on everywhere that you can see. We did not see him without his shirt in any of the audition process, so he got it because he was a great actor. - (general laughter and applause) - That's why he got the job. He got the job because he's an incredible actor and we, um, and we felt really lucky and blessed to have him. And then in the shooting process, early on in the rehearsal process, David [Nutter] had him doing all sorts of things and we got this video sent to us of what I thought was the stunt person doing stuff, and I was like, 'well, the stunt guy's really ripped,' you know, like 'wow... [but] why is someone sending me this video?' And David said, 'no, that's Stephen.' And thus, the salmon ladder was born... That was a discovery for us."

The FULL Arrow panel at SDCC on July 23 (in three parts) - Part 1 was previously posted in the Spoilers thread (page 40) and Parts 2 & 3 were previously posted in this thread, but here they are together in one place and in order... ARROW Comic Con 2016 Panel - Part 1 (SPOILERS!) ARROW Comic Con 2016 Panel - Part 2 ARROW Comic Con 2016 Panel - Part 3

It's worse than that. During the Arrow panel at SDCC, SA said: "I've always thought that Oliver's most important relationship in Arrow is his relationship to Star City and his love of that city."

SA: "Star City is Oliver's most important relationship on the show." ... Somewhere William is going, "But what about me?"

WM's comments are disingenuous. IIRC, she and other EPs have said that they plan the entire season in broad strokes in advance and know where everyone's going to end up at the end of the season. She even says in that DC Comics News interview above that they already know how the season is going to end with respect to Oliver and the Big Bad at least. Now they may change and tweak stuff here and there, but I can't believe that they don't already know where the Olicity relationship is going to end up at the end of S5. So her comments about letting the characters and the actors kinda dictate what happens to that relationship is B.S. - it would only affect what happens in S6, which means they could be apart for all of S5. I mean, WM basically confirmed that when they were planning S2 or S3, they were already looking for a substitute for the S1 Lauriver romance, when she said that they "originally wrote those characters [Oliver & Felicity] and explored that relationship as much out of a response to, 'we need a romantic storyline on the show,' but really it was the chemistry between Stephen and Emily on camera - you can't deny it."

I found this really funny and kinda snarky - it's Jenny Raftery's way of reporting spoilers from the Arrow highlight reel (you have to go to the link to see the pics that accompany the below text)... 9 Surprises From Arrow’s Comic-Con Trailer By Jenny Raftery July 26, 2016 http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/arrow-comic-con-trailer-surprises.html

I'm also finding the new fan tweets using the #OliCity hashtag hilarious - more examples (retweeted at @SmoaknArrow)...