treasaigh

Poor Enoch indeed. Deke's dead. Should we feel bad? No. I'm ready for the Deke bashing to end. Especially in an episode where without him they still die. And where did Nana go? Why was he calling her Jemma???? Are we placing bets on whether or not Coulson is alive at the end of the series?

I finished this last night and it was okay. I hated the cliffhanger. The "one chosen girl" has shades of Buffy, but I know nothing of the comics so I could be wrong there. I think it has potential, but season 1 really felt like a set up for the show. We finally get Ava as the warrior nun and we have a clear villain. I really didn't need 8 episodes of set up. Do we think Mary is dead? I'm not okay with that. One of the middle episodes I liked was the one with Mary and Ava.

So I've been watching and reading, and I totally agree with the group here the triangle isn't working for me. However, I find myself surprised that Max seems to be taking the brunt of it over Simon. Yes I'm generalizing, I know. :-) I get Max way more than I get Simon. Simon is cheating. Max is in love with is best friend. He tells her. Of course it doesn't go well, and he doesn't handle it perfectly. But that's completely normal for people in their mid twenties. The age I assume the characters are. I don't get a good feeling for how much time passes in the show, but he seems to get over it fairly quickly, but almost as quickly she sings a song to him about how she loves him. Then he sees her coming on to another guy. Of course he's going to be upset. He just comes to terms with being friend-zoned, then she expresses her love for him, then she is seen coming on to another guy. Who wouldn't feel confused with all that happening? Frankly my sympathy is for the guy who was kept in the dark about Zoey's initial feelings (when she pushed him towards Amber), who finally thinks he's got a shot at the girl he loves, only to find out she's trying to get with another guy. He gets a chance to move on (to floor six with Renee is a HUGE step up), checks in with her (his best friend for years), gets an answer, then moves decides to go with Renee. A plan I totally support! I don't see how that's a problem. My sympathy is NOT with the cheater or the person who cheats with him. I do not know why they went this route. It's clear they want us to see Max and Simon as viable options and not think Zoey is a bad person. But I'm not completely buying it. I like Zoey a lot until I think about her and Simon. Then I get angry with her. I think this was a mistake, and I do not look forward to the inevitable Zoey/Simon relationship that will eventually explode. Overall, I really like this show and I worry that we won't get a season two and will have to wade through the Zoey/Simon relationship. The show knows he's wrong (Mo dropped all kinds of truth on him), but they still want us to like him (Mo somehow gives him a pass). I don't get that. Also? I think the casting of Skyler in a musical show is a clear indicator that Max is supposed to win. :-)

So I binged this over the weekend. It wasn't good. It wasn't bad. It was... okay. Just okay. Generally I'm a forgiving viewer. I'll let a lot of stuff slide. So I didn't mind too much the fast pace. I do think they did a disservice by not making it clear if Fred and Deloris should have had any suspicion that the Presidio was "evil". Every time we saw Fred and Deloris fighting "monsters" they had killed someone or they were trying to kill someone. I totally agree with the killing in the supermarket. That guy had killed and hung up a guy on a meat hook. At the end it was clear they were at the massacre and while they tried to help, it's not enough. They knew they were sent in to kill children. For two people (or maybe just Deloris) who wanted children that seems like the point where they should have taken the babies and ran. Not run all over the world killing monsters. Either that or they should have shown us why after that they stayed because it in some way protected the children. I actually like Deloris except that she seems to blindly kill. The kids didn't bother me too much. I liked Viv more than Geoff. Geoff got on my nerves at times. The kumbaya family at the end was a little bit too much too soon for me. Then again they are all killers so maybe they all see a little bit of themselves in each other? Who knows. Maybe making Fred and Deloris relive all the deaths was supposed to be a bigger influence on their decision making that it seemed? I'm going to guess that Fred's cheating will be a factor in season 2. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason for it to be included here. It meant nothing to the plot, and not enough to Fred's character. I'm expecting a woman scorned plot for season 2. If it happens. There's no buzz here so I'm not optimistic about it's chances. The "twist" of the humans are the monsters and that Alice was their mother was so obvious I fast forwarded through most of that episode. Annoyed. I want to know how the grandmother is okay with warlocks as grandkids. Presidio knows the kids are warlocks. So obviously the grandparents, or at least Maggie does. Am I supposed to assume that just because she saw them as they were growing up, she's going to let them slide? I hate that they brought back the brother and now he's supposed to be a good guy. He's NOT a good guy. There better be something in season 2 to fix that. Maybe he's been in hell this whole time and has truly repented for his crimes. Something. So why would I watch a season 2 if it came out? I've watched stupider stuff. I think there is the possibility of a fun family demon bad guy hunters show here. I actually like Deloris if I forget that she participated in the killing of families, which must have included children, and didn't go on the run after that. I like that they didn't drag the reveal about the affair out and make it some huge secret. Fred clearly chooses his family, which includes Deloris. So he's totally coming back. As a "monster" if I had to guess. I don't hate the kids which is a surprise for me. I usually hate the kids. I don't love them, but now that, hopefully, the angst is over they can focus on being awesome warlocks.

On paper she shares a lot of characteristics of another Greg Berlanti character, Felicity from Arrow. From the moment she showed up I've assumed it wasn't a coincidence. It also made me wonder if the writers/producers think there might be a future for Malcom and Edrisa. So far I'm not interested in any of the possible romantic options Edrisa, Dani, or Eve.

What could this Arrowverse show offer that's different? We could finally have that Green Arrow/Black Canary pairing people have wanted. Too bad for them that Green Arrow is Mia. Could be fun to watch the reactions to that!

I have a question for everyone. All the interviews say that Homelander raped Butcher's wife. I'm sorry I can't remember her name. But anyway, was there anything in the show that indicated it was rape and not consensual? I don't remember, but maybe I missed it.

As someone who is not on Twitter, what did she say? Honestly, I don't know if they really couldn't come up with anything else to say with Quentin or if they are using that as an excuse for something else. But even if it isn't the real reason they could be more sensitive. Which I would have assumed they were capable of being more considerate since they were writing a show that included many queer characters. The fact they aren't just reinforced to me that the show I thought I was watching is not the show the showrunners/producers are making.

Here's what I want to know. Now that the dust has settled a bit, is the story from the producers/storytellers/actors changed? Are they seeing or feeling any backlash? I don't read too many interviews so I don't know. I don't expect them to resurrect Quentin next season, but maybe... I don't know... something??? That being said I'd totally take a Quentin fighting his way back story. I don't want a repeat of the ripping Buffy out of heaven storyline. But a Quentin deciding he isn't done? I'd take that.

So here's the other thing that's bothering me. I read statements about how the showrunners really didn't want to send a pro-suicide message. But I don't know how this *isn't* a somewhat pro-suicide message. I just watched the fireside scene and while Penny40 talks about "You didn't want to leave that did you." But honestly, why not? He saved his friends. They're sad, but they'll move on to new and different things. They are okay without him. They don't have him, but they have each other to help them get through it. I know Quentin has struggled with suicidal thoughts, and it does make some sort of sense that he might wonder about his intention. I just don't know that they really proved anything to me. Not sure there was anything they could have done to prove it honestly. So maybe they should have found a way to kill him off without it being his choice. Random death is also very real and very tragic for everyone involved. Sickness. Accidents. All valid choices that wouldn't have opened the door of suicide. Edited to add: In the Hollywood Reporter article, there is this quote. You’re in the early stages of writing season five. What does that look like without Quentin? "McNamara: It's interesting because not every character had the depth of relationship with Quentin that Julia, Eliot and Alice had. So it's interesting to really be realistic about it. There’s a bit of a clue to that in one of the final scenes of the finale where Margo and Eliot are in Fillory and she has this line about "I'm gonna find my man for some hot grief-banging," and then realizes she's being horribly insensitive to Eliot. " Here's my question. What relationship does everyone think Eliot and Quentin have? Why would Margo think that Eliot would be hurt more by Quentin's death than she was? The three of them were "best" friends, Margo's words, not mine. So why wouldn't Margo assume Eliot is being hit harder? Maybe that answer is in part of an episode I didn't watch yet????

Or, you know, they could have spent this season building up relationships for her instead of making her all about Quentin. Not a good look for Alice or the show.

Your take is certainly reasonable too. Everyone brings their perspective and baggage to a show. So everyone is going to interpret what happens through their lenses. My lenses say that they could have done everything you say, without a romantic reconciliation. I've seen someone post several times over the last couple weeks that the Quentin/Alice connection could have been made just as well if they came back together as friends only. Which I *totally* agree with. I'm sorry whoever you are. Apparently, I'm too lazy to go back through the threads and find your name! 🙂 Why because he forgave himself does he have to get back together with a person he was *clearly and completely* over (as I saw it anyway). To me, it felt too much like backsliding into something comfortable as a way to chase some happiness. And if it is, as you say "the story has nothing to do with which person Quentin is going to have a romantic future with." then it would have worked better if he and Alice decided to start over with a friendship FIRST before getting back together romantically. Then Quentin could have died with TWO people destroyed by the idea of the romance that could have been if only Quentin hadn't died. As it stands, Eliot not only loses one of his best friends but has to accept the man he wanted to commit himself to went back to his crazy ex-girlfriend. There's a thought. How does this not destroy Eliot? How does he not wonder what could have changed if only he said yes to Quentin? Would he wonder how much harder Quentin would have worked to save him if they were in a relationship? Does he wonder if Quentin would have hesitated to sacrifice himself if they were in a relationship? How does this not become even more his biggest regret? How does he live with that? I assume that's part of what's in season 5. Maybe. Or maybe they just move past it without any real thought. Yeah, I'm still bitter. 🙂

First, my disclaimer. I have not watched the last two episodes. The Magicians seems to always end on a cliffhanger, so I typically stop watching an episode or two before the end so it hopefully makes the wait easier. Debatable if that works, especially when you consider I still read the spoilers. J Anyway, I think I might be done with this show. Or at least I don’t think I’ll be paying for it anymore. (I currently watch through Amazon Prime.) I don’t think I’ve been watching the show the showrunners have been telling, if you get my meaning. This season seems to end with a couple of themes/storylines I just didn’t expect to see in this show. So there is a disconnect between the show I *thought* I was watching and the story they are trying to tell. The showrunners have known since before the first word was written for season four that this was the end for Jason/Quentin. That means all the storylines related to him were on purpose. They told the story they wanted to tell. Meaning… One, Alice was isolated all season because they wanted her to be isolated. They resolutely refused to build relationships between her and the other characters and instead kept her focus on Quentin. Why??? Why was it important that she ends the season without other significant relationships? Maybe next season will explore that, but I’m not sure I care enough to stick around for that. Two, Quentin spent all season being sad, depressed, and miserable just to kill him off in the end. What sort of message does that send? Life sucks and then you die? But everything is better? All so we could have fifteen minutes exploring whether or not he died so he could save his friends or commit suicide? Yeah, this could be somewhat irresponsible. Three, they wanted their heterosexual, white, cis couple back together in the end regardless if it made sense. I was really excited a few episodes back when it looked like Quentin was clearly over Alice. People. Move. On. And I was excited to see a show I loved showing how one partner moves on when the other hasn’t moved on quite as much. That’s totally realistic and heartbreaking. But somehow in the last two episodes, Quentin decided he still wanted her. When I first heard he took her back I was hoping it was so they could explore how someone with low self-esteem and depression might go back to someone even if they know it’s not a good relationship for them simply because they don’t feel they could do better. That would have been a different way to approach the love triangle. Alice, the old relationship, but known, against Eliot, the scary new relationship. But nope. Quentin just needed a girlfriend so his death could be more tragic. Ugh. Four, yes, people like people who like other people. And, yes, sometimes people die before you can tell them you like them. Totally realistic. Know what? I just don’t care. There is nothing in my life at this moment that makes me want to spend time on a story that is realistic in a sad and depressing way. Is it a valid story to tell? Absolutely. No question. It’s just not a story *I* want to watch. There was no reason to revisit A Life in a Day and bait the audience like that. Because I don’t care what they say, *that* was baiting the audience. They are aware enough of LBGT storylines in popular culture and their show specifically to know a portion of the audience would latch on to that. Teasing that without any sort of payoff at all. Not even a real meeting between Eliot and Quentin… Yeah, I think I might be done. I’ll totally watch the last two episodes eventually. Sadly this is not the first time I’ve had to realize the show I was watching was not the show the showrunners were trying to tell. Maybe it really is me. Apparently, Joss Whedon (and Co.) and I have different ideas on whether or not Angel is a good boyfriend. J

I don't know. I was feeling the hints that she wanted to get back with him. But that's my interpretation. Specially in their last scene where he fixed the cup, I thought it looked like she was making little false starts towards kissing him. Maybe I'm wrong and this is what you say, just two ex's learning how to interact. Or maybe it's a story about how one partner has a harder time letting go and the awkwardness that arises. I hope so. I don't know that I 100% agree that this show isn't about endgame relationships. This show is all about personal growth and relationships. Yes, crazy things happen, but the stuff everyone connects to are the relationships. At the end of the show I expect to see all sorts of ways their stories can end. I believe some will be alone and some will be in seemingly long term pairings. I could really see Margo ending up alone, and I actually really like the Josh/Margo pairing. Or even Katy. Or Julia. But I think the characters out Quentin and Eliot want love and relationships too much to be left alone. Could I be totally wrong and it's more a bittersweet ending? Of course. After years of being beaten up and dragged through the winger, I just can't imagine that the show is going to end up without some payoff, and some of that payoff is going to be committed, long term, relationships. Where (probably) at least one or more are relationships where the writers have teased and tormented the characters and the viewers for years, the shows OTP. I think there's a chance that OTP could be Queliot. Or maybe I'm dreaming and not making sense cause it's way too early to be up on a Saturday!

I totally agree with Alice having relationships outside of Quentin. Nobody's life should be all about just one person. It would also lessen my fear that Qualice is coming back. Even if it's not about the relationship, Alice is just kind of out there on her own without strong connections between her and people not named Quentin. That's not good for the character. I enjoyed the Katy/Alice scenes. Back in the day I even enjoyed the Penny/Alice stuff. They could be using her for the Katy stuff this episode. Alice and Zelda are pretty good together. Zelda is actively losing her friends by going against the library. Maybe she and Alice could hang out together. (I realize Zelda might have friends that we never see. I'm assuming not for argument's sake.) Maybe put her with Dean Fogg? He needs someone too. I quoted your statement about how Eliot should respond just because it makes me happy. 🙂 I'm tired of people not talking just so we can have more drama. Maybe he wouldn't yell, but dear God, please have Eliot TALK to Quentin about how he realized he passed up something great with him, and would really like to give it a go. I do understand if everyone talked to each other 90% of the drama in shows would go away. I'm just asking for a little bit of talking. After Life in a Day, I totally agreed with you, Festivus. I just didn't see the show going with their two main male protagonists in a romantic relationship. That changed for me after Escape from a Happy Place. They placed the Queliot *romantic* relationship front and center. It wasn't a joke, it wasn't a throw-away line. Eliot's greatest regret is not giving it a go. The show loves Eliot, they aren't going to dangle a happily ever after with his biggest regret and then not give it to him. So I'm not terribly concerned that the show will eventually go with Queliot. Especially with the real world implications. Can you imagine the backlash if they *don't* actually go there? In Legends of Tomorrow, I don't really care for the Avalance ship, but I realize it's not going anywhere mostly for real-world reasons. Caveat, of course, is one or the other leaving the show. I think that's the same thing here. I'm just NOT here for the drama of Triangleland. I'm so over triangles. It's going to waste time when we could be watching Queliot and the gang facing all the craziness together. I'm a good person. I want nice things. Give me this thing show.