SNeaker

So I saw "Finding Neverland" last night with a huge group of people, and everyone loved it, as did the entire audience who seemed to be gaga for it. I don't really get why it was trashed. It's nicely staged (with some particularly beautiful shots), entertaining the whole way through, and judging by the number of red, swollen eyes in the theater afterwards, very affecting. The songs were maybe not tremendously catchy, but it seems like a solid enough show to me? Matt was great, of course, though I did find his "Scottish brogue" a bit distracting. The kid who played Peter was awful, but, well...kid actors.

I could see those women getting on the list, absolutely. Why not? They put people in who make headlines. It wasn't about Lea and Dianna, it was about Rachel and Quinn and their particular journeys, their feelings about themselves, and their competitive dynamic with each other.

From what I recall the last time it came up, jaytee thinks it was ridiculous and hard to swallow for someone as conventionally beautiful as Rachel to have sung that song. Something I disagree with completely not because I don't think she's beautiful, but because she's not "conventionally" so (and being in the 50 Most Beautiful issue doesn't change that, they feature many unconventional beauties) and because Lea Michele, the actress who plays Rachel and shares her face, has been told in the past to get a nose job and that she looks too "ethnic" to get roles.

Interesting article, though I think off-based in their condemnation of "She's Having My Baby." I thought that was pretty hilarious and worked in show. For me the very very very first sign of trouble ahead was in "Accafellas," though each problem the show had, and it had many, had its original sign somewhere else. But for me, already in the third episode they were showing inconsistent characterization and, in particular, starting the trouble with Will being an amorphous tool for the plot they needed. At the time I dismissed it as a new show struggling to find its voice and first season kinks that could be worked out, especially since it was followed by the stellar "Preggers," which I think is still one of the best ever. But the inconsistency and willingness to sacrifice character for plot of the week would, of course, actually become the hallmark of the show.

He didn't "lose" the case, they settled it, and apparently the money is coming from Mark's insurance company, and, weirdly, he might get some of it too? "However, under the terms of the settlement signed by a judge, Gorzela can only go after Salling's insurance company State Farm for the damages awarded to her, and not the actor personally."

It's still unclear to me whether this was something that was scripted or just tastelessly improvised or joked about, but the point is it didn't happen onscreen so I'm choosing to ignore it.

Finn's death obviously deeply affected Puck and was definitely a catalyst for him in many ways when it came to his future, but I don't know if I'd say it was "more than glee club" because he would have already been a lost cause by the time that happened if not for glee, imo. Not just because it gave Puck some stability, but because it helped him become a better person. But the last we saw them, Puck was the one lecturing Finn about how they needed to get their act together and think about their futures. He was a bit lost on what to do post HS, but not that much more than some of the other characters. We don't really know what would have happened if Finn hadn't died.

I think, aside from actually needing a place to stay, the support of glee club helped Quinn ya know...emotionally and stuff. And helped her become a better person. Well, some of the time. She was kind of all over the place. But in general, she was a supportive friend herself after that.

Puck would have probably ended up on the streets or in big boy prison or dead if not for glee club. A Lima Loser at the very, very least. He also would have more directly flunked out of school. It was his willingness to put on a dress for glee club that made his teacher give him a second chance at the test.

The characters who started off as popular kids definitely had it easier in many many ways than the original underdogs. But I thought the point of the show -- and the point of integrating the jocks/cheerleaders, as opposed to keeping them as the villains -- was that the kids who on the surface seem popular can also be extremely unhappy and feel like outcasts (lonely in a crowd) for one reason or another and many can be hiding their true selves and putting on a show in order to BE popular due to fear that they won't be accepted if they show the world who they truly are.

We don't know how either Puck or Santana lost their virginities. Or Mercedes. (Unless there was something about Mercedes in the finale that I didn't hear about.)

"Need You Now" and "If I Die Young" are also considered Country, aren't they?

Oh yeah, speaking as a Puck/Rachel fan and voracious reader of fanfic in that genre, a lot of it had that awful characterization of Rachel (with bonus abusive Finn.) Bad fanfic knows no shipping preference. It was just funny to me when Marley showed up and was like the personification of that Rachel.

Marley in a lot of ways reminded me of the Rachel I often saw in bad fanfic and quickly backpaged out of. Weak, easily victimized, naive, and a goody goody girl next door.

In one of Jake's first episodes, he is seen putting the moves on various women. The song "Womanizer" is literally sung to him. He has anger management issues, gets into fights a lot, and knocks over a music stand. Later, he cheats on his girlfriend when she won't put out and has a pregnancy scare with the girl he cheated with.

Marley was Rachel's replacement in the choir room "kid cast." Most of us don't care about splitting hairs over words like "replacement." Sam gets called a Finn 2.0 and they were on the show together for many years. They brought in new newbies because they wanted to rebuild the choir room with new kids for Rachel's story of recreating Glee club when she was lost over having mucked up Broadway/TV. But the new noobies were not direct replacements for specific characters. "Oh, we need a diva, but let's make him white, cis, and straight" as you're implying. Roderick wasn't remotely diva-ish. The only thing I see him and Unique having in common is being...un-skinny. And to lump them together for that reason seems rather offensive, to be honest.

Puck cared enough about his mom to date a Jewish girl to make her happy. He also supported Finn and looked out for him (Bee Gees episode, last episode at college where in the end he got Finn to stop partying and buckle down in school.) Oh he didn't dance. That makes him and Jake toooooootally different.

Whether or not certain cast members were still on the show, the first set of noobs all filled specific holes in the choir room from when the previous group graduated. They fulfilled those exact archetypes. The new noobs were not direct replacements for the old noobs. They were, as far as I could tell, an attempt to wipe the slate clean and start off with a fresh group of newbies who were more distinct in personality and style rather than retreads.

You think the noobs 2.0 were direct replacements for specific noobs 1.0 while still maintaining the noobs 1.0 were nothing like the original ND members they replaced? Hooookay. Edit: Ha ha, triple jinx.

I'm with those who think there's no need to wrap every character up in a bow or map out their futures...but that it's weird and jarring to do it for some and not others, especially when some of the people left out were arguably more central characters than some of those included. And yeah, it'd be one thing if say, Mark and Dianna weren't available to film this season at all while people like Kevin and Jenna were, but...that wasn't the case. Dianna appeared in two episodes. If they knew it would potentially be her last, they could have given her a sendoff. They shlepped Mark back for four episodes of nothing, with his final episode being a flashback to when he was a bully. I didn't watch the episodes, but I saw one of those gifsets of "firsts and lasts" on tumblr for him, and his very last line on the show ever was mocking Tina's stutter. I mean. And if they hadn't done the final song (which clearly wasn't planned in advance) it would have been his final appearance ever. And while Dianna may have had scheduling conflicts with the finale, Mark clearly didn't. They could have brought him in for even just a scene or a song or something, and then he could have said something about Quinn. If they knew going into the season they'd have limited time to work with the original cast, they could have planned for that and filmed stuff for the finale back when they were filming the Homecoming episode. They didn't. They just didn't care.

I think the "have another wine cooler" thing with Puck and Quinn was intended as a joke because...it's a wine cooler. Pretty hard to get drunk on those. Quinn didn't drink it when Puck offered, and she was clearly (to me) extremely lucid in that scene. Puck did stop when she said stop and only continued to try to persuade her verbally, and not with any kind of manipulation as most of her protests had nothing to do with not wanting it and seemed more like halfhearted "we shouldn'ts" based on celibacy club and Finn. She said the word "ok" and they continued. So while that entire ordeal was not Puck's finest moment, I don't think it's that problematic as far as consent. Other than that one time Quinn claimed he "got her drunk and she felt fat that day" which seemed again like her attempt at minimizing the experience to hurt Puck so she wouldn't have to acknowledge him as the baby daddy, Quinn generally presented it as a very bad decision, but a decision nonetheless.

Ryder was there and came in with Unique and Dreadlocks dude. Melissa couldn't make it, apparently. That number ended up being incredibly lame and disappointing, and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of the order in which characters came into the song. The only thing notable about it to me was that Jacob Artist also having facial hair now makes him and Mark look even more like believable brothers.

Rachel's own birth mother was unable to have children after her. They never stated explicitly why, but the implication was a hysterectomy. I always thought that contributed to Shelby's behavior. Having a child for other people and then not being able to have one of your own would be fairly traumatic.

All the same people who were not in the finale, though at least Finn's memory was.

The Brittany episode? Are they kidding? That was the first sign the show was heading off the rails.