Maysie

I totally agree with this. I get the feeling that it's a bit politically incorrect to call Caitlyn out for being a shit father because that was Bruce, not Caitlyn. Bruce was the bad dad. Bruce was the henpecked husband. Bruce lived a lie because he didn't feel like he could be himself and that affected everything. And yes, to an extent it did affect everything but that's still not the reason for everything, in my opinion. It becomes an excuse for everything because he was living a lie and not being true to himself, blah blah blah. But here's how I see it: we all have our basic ethical code, our basic guiding principles. They may evolve over time and circumstance, they may shift, etc. but I don't think it's as simple as everyone's making it out for Bruce/Caitlyn. I keep coming back to the Vanity Fair article and I simply can't escape the fact that she was pissed that the kids wouldn't participate in his money making docu-series. Disappointment I can understand. But anger because he wants good ratings? That article left me with the feeling that it's still all about Caitlyn. And I understand that to some point because the kids are mostly grown, she's 65 and finally able to live the life, in the open, as she sees fit. But that's no different from Bruce who was all about Bruce because he lived a lie. It will be interesting to see how out and about and engaged Caitlyn is, doing good works for the cause, when the cameras aren't rolling. I think the real Caitlyn is the one that won't be in front of the camera.

I look at those shots and I think "Cher." Nothing against Cher, but Kim's way too young to look like Cher. And that tells me she's fucked with her face way too much. What the hell was she thinking?

The interesting thing about this quote (to me) is that Kim sees the show as her career. The clothing stores are obviously an after-thought for her. The thing about that is, is if they'd put the effort into actually learning about the design and fashion business that could be the career, one with longevity. It seems they built the clothing line to capitalize on the television show, at least that's how I take the quote. Show first, everything else second. Even the best television stars/personalities -- people with talent -- rise and fall with the times. She's on a fucking reality show, one that's really lived beyond its shelf-life. I will give her some props for understanding that it was really hanging on by a very tenuous thread after the Kris H debacle, but the reality is that reality stars come and go; their fame is usually much shorter lived than the standard television personality is -- you know, someone who acts or sings (even badly). In my opinion, Kanye rescued her career. He's why she (and most of the family) is relevant.

Well, I notice two things about that snap: 1) OF COURSE Kylie's clutching her skirt at her crotch. 2) And do my eyes deceive me, or is the portion of Kris's dress that covers her left breast actually sheer in some spots to expose said breast? I swear I actually see her nipple. Please tell me that's just some color in the fabric. Please! I really can't tell what I'm seeing there. And then of course Kim's full sheer too. Honestly, she's either stuffed into something two sizes too small or wearing something sheer. It's jarring to see these three (and if it turns out it's merely fabric in Kris's case I'll change it to "these two") and compare them to Chrissy Tiegen later in the article. Night and day. I hope the Go Fug Yourself girls get a load of this one. I'd say Kylie should be in school somewhere, but it is summer vacation after all. But I think it's all kind of fucked up she's out partying it up with her 25 year old boyfriend, her mom and her mom's new squeeze when she's all of 17. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

Well, to be fair, Caitlyn's surgery is in the name of transitioning, which is a bit different from everyone else in the family. And though I loathe Kris, her "adjustments" are increasingly more common among women her age. I do take exception to the younger ladies surgically altering and enhancing everything however, because for fuck's sake, they aren't even 35! A basic nose job is one thing. And go ahead and get that boob job, but these ladies are a plastic surgery pile-on (or mashup?) So when you put them all together, yeah, this family certainly has body issues. The parents are one thing but when the older siblings have a plastic surgery track record (and one is one of the most photographed people in the world), I think that's where you really get the influence.

Well, Caitlyn has to get used to the work it takes to maintain the image she rolled out to the world via Vanity Fair. I have to admit that I'm a little curious into how she'll settle into day to day life as a woman. Being female is so much more than boobs and vaginas, makeup and long hair, bras and panties. Sometimes I enjoy getting dressed up and other days I feel like "why bother." I suspect that men feel similarly (such as with shaving, for example). I don't know what it is that makes me female, particularly since I don't have or want kids, but I just know it's right and it has nothing to do with a feminine appearance most of the time. And I guess that's what makes me curious about how Caitlyn handles it, what she eventually settles into and how she defines living life as a woman. Kim doesn't look too ready for off-roading with (what I'm assuming is) a tight dress and strappy heels.

Things that took me out of it: - David Morse/Ani's father the guru. - Colin Farrell beating the ever loving shit out of the father and the son. How is he not back at the station at least getting the stink eye from some superior for doing this shit again? (because I'm betting this kind of stuff is kind of normal for him and they're always having to deal with some sort of bs with him. But this? Beating a 12 year old with brass knuckles is really beyond what any police department would put up with -- social media anyone?) But no, he's on the new case. - Ani and her partner serving a foreclosure notice that suddenly turns into a missing persons case. - Colin Farrell beating the ever loving shit out of a random woman. I guess we'll learn more about it later, but Jesus, that was creepy and out of nowhere. It's obvious he's messed up beyond measure, but I'll be curious to see if his reality has any relationship at all to real reality. I'm trying hard not to compare it to last season or to pre-judge Vince Vaughn, whom I'm pretty meh on. He's always seemed to play the same role and it's never been particularly interesting or all that likable. But the first episode was loaded with cliches and things that are requiring me to suspend a little too much disbelief.

You know, I wish her well and all, but I'm over the whole Caitlyn thing. I read the Vanity Fair article and like the guy who wrote it, it was a back and forth of feeling sorry for her -- for feeling trapped into living a lie for most of her life -- and being infuriated with her and disgusted with how self-absorbed and almost victimized she came across. In my opinion, she uses her transgender issues as an excuse for being a shitty father, for being an asshole, and I have a hard time with that. We can all come up with reasons and excuses about why we do things we shouldn't do or neglect the things we should. It's great that now that he's a she she's finally taking the lead in celebrating father's day with her children. But she's able to do it because she's suddenly happy with herself? Because she finally feels good about herself? Umm, no. I don't know; maybe it's me, but I'm of the school of thought that when you're a parent, you do some stuff you don't feel like doing or don't want to do because it's your job. I do understand how and why Bruce kept perpetuating the Jenner myth and denying reality, but I don't sign off on it as his reason for being a piss poor father and husband and continuing to marry and have kids even when he knew he wasn't responsible dad/husband material. I'm guessing the reason his marriage to Kris worked so long is because the arrangement worked for both of them until he simply couldn't reconcile it any longer. I guess the upside is that since the non-participating family members of Caitlyn's show attended the father's day celebration that it's not all made for television, because honestly, that was my first thought. It will be interesting to see if any of it ends up on the show.

You know what's rich about this? Even when we actually see and hear Kim and the rest of them do anything, we automatically think it's fake! I assume it's as real as anything else she does, which is all about and for the cameras and publicity. So I guess it's "really fake."

I'd think this was a joke, but we're well beyond April Fool's day.

On one hand Kylie is one of those teens I simply cannot stand because she appears to be spoiled and entitled. However, she's only 17 and I've known very few 17 year olds (if any) that didn't think that 1) they are always right and 2) they are the center of the universe. Self-absorption is pretty normal at that age, as is insecurity. On that score, it seems Kylie is pretty normal. However, in a few years I won't feel sorry for her because she'll be an adult. In a way, that's a little fucked up because she's not being educated in how to make choices, how to live her life, how to understand the ramifications of her choices, so it's not like she has much guidance about what she grows into. And in a strange way, her older sisters haven't had any really bad repercussions to their choices. Yeah, I know, failed marriages, babies out of wedlock, lack of respect, blah blah blah. But so far, each and every one of them is laughing all the way to the bank, and I think that's their bottom line. They aren't passed out drunk or zonked out on drugs and in any physical danger. The fact that they're so willing to debase themselves for headlines seems to go right on over their heads, because again, money in the bank and picture all over the internet -- and that appears to be all they really aspire to out of life. As a woman, as a feminist, it sickens me to see how Kylie is altering her appearance and aligning herself with a man who obviously has no real respect for her. But this is a family who ties its entire self worth into dollars and clicks; respect and education are quaint notions that don't maintain a certain lifestyle they enjoy. I doubt that Kim or Kris will ever change; I sense that Kendall has chosen a different path. Perhaps Kylie doesn't want to be left in Kendall's dust and mimicking the older K girls is how she avoids it. She likely won't ever understand what she's missed, which I guess means she won't miss it. Maybe being immortalized in song, no matter how vile, validates Kylie.

I think part of the disbelief of the transitioning process may be in part because it is so out there, so very public and in your face; the "ploy" is an attempt to make money/become more famous/cash in on the previous notoriety. However, that's a guess on my part because I absolutely believe it's happening. I will say it sure appears to me that it's paying off big time because I saw something today that Caitlyn's speaking fees will be 5 times what Bruce's were. So Ka-ching! for transitioning! There's little doubt in my mind that he would have been highly scrutinized and hounded with his transition, however, she's not doing it this way because she had no choice. There's always a choice. Just because he lived his life in a reality show world for the last xx years doesn't mean he couldn't have done it in a more low-key fashion - hell, it sounds like Bruce was an afterthought on the show anyway. Bruce could have taken the Chaz Bono route; he was the subject of a lot of speculation and publicity, but he handled it in a fairly classy, relatively private, way, I thought. Perhaps this is how Caitlyn makes all those years living with Kris pay off. Perhaps Bruce always wanted the level of fame and attention the women of the family had and now Caitlyn's finally able to share in it. I can't get inside her head to see what her motivation is. All I know is what I've read and the thing that I'm having a hard time getting beyond is her insensitivity to her kids' reactions. She can pose for covers, she can subject herself to living with a camera crew and paparazzi following her everywhere all she wants; it's her choice. But she should accept her kids taking a pass on it all; they shouldn't have to have their transition experience played out for everyone to watch -- and I do think it's a transition for them too, which is something that's getting lost in the shuffle. It'd be nice if Caitlyn would acknowledge that. Maybe she will on the show. I hope so, but I'm not going to watch to find out.

I don't necessarily think Caitlyn=Bruce/Bruce=Caitlyn. On one hand, yes, they're still one in the same person: same basic values and ethical code, same Republican, same enjoyment of golf, etc. etc. However, I think that Caitlyn will morph into someone a bit different. I mean, I think everyone changes a bit over time as we age and become exposed to more things that shape our view point. As she's finally able to live her life the way she really has always wanted to live it, I can see where it will change her a bit. How it changes her, we'll see. I mean, she could feel liberated and become a more open, generous person, or she could feel bitter or angry that she's only getting to experience what she's always felt she was meant to be so late in life. I think no one will really know until the dust settles and she's not the flavor of the day. I imagine there's an element of basking in the limelight of rolling out her new her, as well as a bit of terror, too. Every step she takes, every mistake will be chronicled and that's on her. I think her responses to the goods and the bads will say a lot about who Caitlyn really is. I guess I'm not impressed with her as of yet because of her anger with her kids not supporting the show. I understand disappointment, but anger seems a bit strong and quite frankly, selfish. I don't know if she's been through any counseling through this whole process, but if so, I would think coping with her children's reactions should be a large part of it. I don't think she should have remained Bruce for the rest of her life simply because of her kids having a hard time with it, but it sure seems to me that her transition isn't entirely about her. As for what her kids call her, it's tough because she is not their mother. He literally fathered them and no new name, no operation, no makeup or photo shoot changes that. Dad doesn't seem quite right, father is rather formal, so I can see Caitlyn.

Look, I cannot deny that this transition had to be difficult and took courage to go through. I've long felt that it must be an awful thing to live in a body that doesn't feel like it belongs to you, to know that you were meant to be something else. So from that perspective, I'm quite supportive of Bruce's transition to Caitlyn. I don't begrudge her magazine covers or even a stupid reality show because she is famous and people are curious. And I suppose I have to give her props for at least being honest in the interview and stating she was pissed off that the Jenner kids wouldn't participate in the show; it would have been very easy to just talk about how hurt she was and leave it at that. But here's the thing: though Bruce wasn't an abusive dad, he obviously was a neglectful dad. And at least right now, it appears that Caitlyn's as selfish as Bruce because she seems to think her kids should just step into line and do what needs to be done to pimp the show and accept the change; I call bullshit on that. I know Bruce struggled for 60+ years to come to terms with this; Caitlyn has to allow her kids some time to come to terms with the loss of the man they grew up knowing as their father. As for the Arthur Ashe Award, how about Steve Gleason? And what about Renee Richards? She was really groundbreaking and courageous! So yes, she is being brave, and she does have a host of advantages that allow her to make this transition easier and more gracefully than most have the opportunity. However I'd like to see what change she's really able to affect before laying laurels at her feet. I'm not saying she has to go out and become the transgender spokeswoman but I do think understanding and accepting that her kids are having a tough time with this (and forgiving them that, and stepping up and finally being a real parent to them) is a great place to start. And I have to say this: I'm guessing it's a little easier for the Kardashian kids to accept than the Jenner kids because at the end of the day, Bruce was their stepfather not their father-father. It's not like he raised them and it doesn't seem like he was much of a father figure to anyone let alone his steps.

Well, there is Kendall. As for Caitlyn, she's going to have to be somewhat manufactured because she simply wasn't born that way. As well, I'm sure there was great lighting, a ton of makeup and some photoshop involved in making her look as great as she looks in the shots we're seeing. I can't argue with that too much because it is Vanity Fair and it is Annie Leibovitz and it is par for the course for the big magazines to do that with every cover shot. This quote from Humbugged's post above: now that really bothers me. Maybe I'm misreading the court of public opinion out there, but it seems to me that many many people have supported this whole transition story. It's a hell of a lot easier for me, who has absolutely no personal connection to Bruce Jenner to accept his transition to Caitlyn. The fact that her kids are not playing according to her plan/wishes is entirely understandable. We're talking about a parent who by many accounts was basically an apathetic/absent father -- quite possibly because he was living this inner turmoil about his gender identity. To expect them to accept it enough to play it all out on national television is really over the top and, I think, demanding and insensitive of Caitlyn. Where is her sensitivity to the lives she's disrupting??? I'm kind of in the mind of fuck her. Kylie's out doing who the fuck knows with who the fuck cares at 17 years old and Caitlyn's upset because she won't be on the tv show??? Priorities, asshole! Be upset about her fucking a 25 year old man, not because she won't be in your stupid self-promoting, self-aggrandizing tv show. Argh! And the line that I bolded really stands out because I feel like she's exploiting the situation for money and attention (which really, does she really need more of that?). I would like to think that there's going to be some sensitive advocacy for transgender issues in all this, but this is leading me to believe that there's a lot of going for the gold in a whole new way with this. I guess the one saving grace is that if the LGBT community feels it's being exploited in all of this, it will make its voice heard. And that will be a very good thing because it doesn't need someone going through this journey publicly merely as a crass money grab. How quickly I'm turning. I guess I should read the whole article before I make judgments, but based on the excerpted quotes, gah! I'm a long-time subscriber to Vanity Fair, so I'll definitely read the piece. I guess for sentiment's sake (you know, the whole Bruce on the Wheaties box thing) I was hoping I'd come away with a good feeling about this, but now I'm having some serious doubts.

I kind of figured but wasn't sure about the timing. As you mention "manipulation of time line and events," I think it's so whorish of her to actually plan her pregnancy so she can announce that she's pregnant in the final show. Consider this: I guess she's been trying how long to get pregnant in the show? Shot how long ago? And whatever they're doing magically worked in the last week or two, just so she could film the "I'm pregnant!" announcement for the season finale? Which means 1) she's really not pregnant and will "lose" the baby as speculated, 2) there is a surrogate as speculated or 3) getting pregnant is absolutely no problem and she's just been deliberately timing getting pregnant with the season finale of her show. Because if she'd become pregnant when it was shot, we'd be seeing hints by now, I imagine. (Caveat: I have known of one or two women who did not look pregnant at all until about the third trimester, however based on Kim's prior pregnancy, I doubt that much has changed in her body that she can carry that long without her body telling on her). And all this pregnancy stuff has me asking: what the fuck with the corset training? I know nothing about that, but I would assume that should be going out the window (another thing which makes me think the pregnancy just happened, if it's happened at all). Why am I thinking about this? Why do I care???!!!

I don't think Bruce did anything to manipulate/steal Kim and Kanye's thunder or to give them the metaphorical finger. Vanity Fair has its own promo and publication schedule and I think it's one of the few publications that is definitely not kowtowing to the Kardashians (in various pop culture stories, whenever anything Kardashian is mentioned, it's usually in disparaging/condescending terms). In fact, I was a wee bit surprised it put Bruce/Caitlyn on the cover, however, it has a bit of a track record when it comes to cover shots (naked, pregnant Demi Moore) and I can imagine that Bruce jumped at the chance to roll Caitlyn out to the world via Vanity Fair because it carries more weight than, say, Us or People. I imagine the pregnancy/Caitlyn timing is just an unfortunate (for Kim) coincidence. I think Caitlyn does look great. If I were to peel back all the Kardashian stench and bullshit from this and look at Bruce/Caitlyn as a random person, I am happy for her. However I am so tired of the fact that pretty much everything all of them do is either in front of the camera or leading up to be captured on camera. Their lives are a storyline to be exploited. I don't feel like Caitlyn is the result of a storyline, I think it's one of the rare instances of real life for someone in this family and for that reason, I'm having a bit of a hard time with him making a television show out of it. I am looking forward to reading the article to see what she says and if/how it affects my opinion of her.

Well, I think it's all just tying in to whatever the storyline of the week is, much like Rob's issues, Bruce's transformation and Scott's rehab. The next tabloid story to break is your hint to what's coming on the show for the week. Every. Damn. Thing. These people do is made for television.

How far in advance are the shows shot? Because if it's more than a couple of months, I'd think we'd be seeing some sort of indication by now. Whatever. She's spawning again. With each forthcoming child with Kanye, it becomes less newsworthy because been there done that. She's going to need to divorce him and spawn with someone else if she wants headlines to rival when she dropped North.

Well, I won't get into the effectiveness -- or ineffectiveness -- of condoms and other types of birth control, but amen to the first part. Listen, I know that many teens are sexually active, often younger than 17 years old. I think what disturbs me about this is that this behavior is fine for her and everyone in her family because it gets her attention and subsequently, earns money. Yeah yeah yeah, I know it sends a bad message and all that bullshit, but honestly, anyone who's holding a Kardashian/Jenner up as a behavior standard is warped. I imagine most of the public thinks it's pretty fucked up but the tabloid media loves it because it's something Kardashian to stir it up. And the Kardashians love it because it gets them more attention and more money. We talk, we click and they laugh all the way to the bank. The fact that it's driven by a teenager sexing it up with a grown "man" is beside the point; the attention and the money is the point. And again, the Kardashian/Jenner behavior really tells you all you need to know about them.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! And she's serious! I challenge her to live her life as a normal person. You know, someone who goes to work every day, balances a budget, takes care of their own home and family members, without the benefit of hired help. That's not even getting into someone with real challenges, such as a single parent on a very fixed income with a crap job and no support system who struggles to make ends meet while taking care of a family. That takes talent, luck, perseverance -- a whole bunch of stuff. I'm sorry, but when you have a whole mess of people who are paid to do nothing but make sure you get from A to B looking your best (and who often fail miserably at it, IMO), that's not talent. That's called good fortune or luck or whatever, but it's not talent. Self deluded much?

My opinions are probably in the minority, but a couple of things: Sol was just not my cup of tea. Neither of the guys were, honestly, but Sol would make me fucking insane if I had to live with him. I tend to gravitate towards straightforward people, and lean away from the ooey gooey squishy people, which is what Sol is to me. Frankie most definitely isn't, despite her earth mother vibe (so it's not the hippie thing that annoys me about Sol). I saw the sleeping with the ex thing coming a mile away between Frankie and Sol (if they really wanted to surprise me Grace and Robert would have hit the sack, but it wouldn't have worked because we know their relationship wasn't as deep as Frankie and Sol's). So Frankie and Sol sleeping together wasn't much of a surprise. I developed the feeling about halfway in that Sol was a bit ambivalent about what he was doing and figure if there was a way to clone himself or split himself in half he'd do it because he loves both of these people deeply - I absolutely believe that about his character. I also believe Robert loves Sol deeply, certainly more than he did Grace. His cheating with the caterer umpty ump years ago was a one-off and though it's not right, I can see it. He and Sol were broken up and Robert was probably trying to figure out if he was gay or if it was about Sol more than just any man. And though it may wreck Robert and Sol (and I don't think it will), I feel like sleeping with Frankie may be the best thing that could have happened to her because she had the realization that it's good and truly over with Sol and she doesn't feel the same way about him; she can move forward now. Grace and Robert didn't need that revelation but Sol and Frankie did. So it seems to me that out of the four, Grace is the one that's kind of the odd man out. Both Robert and Frankie were deeply in love with Sol and Sol reciprocates the feeling. But it doesn't seem Grace feels that way about anyone, nor they her. So I'm wondering if there's a second season if we'll see it start to go there.

Yeah, it totally took me out of the episode, and in a way, the series. I understand the plot point of having Mallory give birth at home, but really, a baby magically appears in her pants. I can't wrap my head around this. I'll watch the rest of the series, but from this point, it's going to be "yeah, the show that had a baby born in some chick's sweatpants."

The child in the quote refers to Tyga and Blac Chyna's (and I can't believe I just typed that), but I'd argue there are two children involved. The thought that anyone thinks that a 17 year old reality star's testimony would work in her boyfriend's favor is slightly hilarious to me.

I'm sure she does have her own money. I also wouldn't be surprised that if left to her own devices, she'd burn through it in no time flat. If Michael Jackson could literally spend a fortune, Kylie could easily fritter away anything she has from the show and anything else. People (professional athletes!) do it all the time. The difference between her and many other people is that her family can/will bail her out.