HollyGoLitely333

Two comments by 90s Jack & Rebecca at the cabin: Jack: "We only have a few more years together...under the same roof" and Rebecca: "Our family is not ending anytime soon." were heavy handed but really a gigantic bummer. Then the foreshadowing of her future sheltering with Miguel at the cabin instead of Jack because of the pandemic as old people living in a cabin in the woods...sigh. That all got me. The whole episode was great. Like an "ah, there's my show" kind of episode. I'm so glad no one died. Long live Madison and Kate, I hope.

You have captured my thoughts exactly, minus one observation: I am pretty lenient with this show in terms of realistic portrayal of life, but the concept of Kate chasing Marc down in person is RIDICULOUS. This is a case where some googling and a facebook message would have fulfilled her need for closure and kept her from doing something super freaking weird. Also, that he conveniently lives in Southern California? Oh come on. And it's a PANDEMIC. I haven't been able to visit my dad in 10 months. I'm definitely not going to drop in on my ex from 20 years ago with my husband and ...just no. Show, don't don't that again.

He was disgusted by it - it was the shampoo that was at the cabin and he was grossed out looking at it. My husband's family has a cabin in the Poconos (where this cabin is located) and I completely identify with this. I swear there is Irish spring soap that's been there since 1985. We bring our own toiletries but the stuff that's just always been there has...always been there. That's why he said that thing about "I like rustic life but..." when he noticed that Madison was upset and the conversation changed pace to discuss her fall.

Yeah by even yesterday's standards that routine was totally tame, and the jokes could even be construed as just teasing a guy who everyone thinks is straight. I don't think she was ridiculing Shy in the slightest, she was just poking fun in a good-natured way. I can see these points. As I was watching her act unfold, I thought okay, she's really on the line, just reel it back...okay, so she's making him seem like kind of a rags to riches story to the hometown audience talking about his closet. But then when she said "Judy Garland heels" my heart sank. 😞 But then I thought hey MIdge gets away with murder all over town. Maybe this will be a big boo boo and they'll hash it out and move on. Ugh she looked so proud of herself and satisfied when she left the backstage area she was watching Shy's first song from. She thought she nailed the toughest crowd and that the next day, Shy would give her a knowing look and nudge nudge and they'd be girlfriends and laugh about it, but she had no idea how damaging her act would be to him personally. I don't even think this audience is taking the leap over to "shy is gay" but it's how Shy felt watching it that must have been the most gut punching betrayal. Ugh, she wanted so badly to connect with that audience and she forgot to protect Shy in the meantime. I found the final scene to be gut wrenching. That we are also realizing that Susie has lost all of Midge's money and has no safety net while Midge is meanwhile purchasing a home based on a contract that is void...bah. I was legit depressed and it's even worse that we have no idea how long it will be until they can get production back together and when we'll get season 4. It could be a year! Other randoms: That whole speech Joel gave at the top of the stairs to the gambling hall crowd? I'm fairly positive that the Chinese community in 1960 Manhattan wouldn't have rushed to Mai to get her the message from Joel. Dating outside of the community is difficult for older generations TODAY. I found that whole scene to be pretty ridiculous. I really like Benjamin in that old school surgery uniform. Rawr. It's maddening but perfect how Rose is portrayed as insufferable but with that edge of fierceness. Her explanation to Midge why she's meddling and matchmaking (your father is unreliable so I have to do something to keep us afloat) saves her character from being insufferable. Abe's coat looked dirty before he got hit by that first tomato. I feel like production tried to clean his jacket after a failed take. I dislike the Maisels very very much.

Am I the only one who thought this episode was a piecemeal of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor from past episodes? I can't imagine how they could have filmed so much content all before the first week of March. Maybe I don't realize how long production takes after filming. But there were reporters wearing masks so they obviously added that in over the last few weeks. I felt like there was some green screen action involving Benson and that all of the plot lines were things that maybe could have happened in alternate versions of the original episodes but that the director decided to cut/go in a different direction. Given the fact that production halted weeks ago, wouldn't this make sense? Either way, I was surprised they were able to crank anything out given the circumstances. As for the actual episode, it was fine. Obviously not a "finale" but fine. I am in the minority I guess but I have always loved Rollins, shit show life and all. And I'm here for the Carisi set up if they ever do it. *ducks* I did have some trouble jogging my memory about some of the storylines they went through. It took me a few scenes before I remembered that Lakira had taken a ton of hush money at the end of that episode. I love that actress, though. I was happy to see her back on. And really glad I didn't have to see Sir Toby again.

No you are not off base. I came her to see others’ thoughts on this. I thought Nicky’s text to Kevin was congratulating him about Cassidy being knocked up. I thought Cassidy was turning up drunk to a meeting outing with Nicky.

It just dawned on me that the storyline around Rebecca mourning baby Kyle on the Big Three's first birthday informs the Kevin/Randalll battle at the end of the episode. Kevin basically says "I wish you were never born!" and Randall thinks he's doing a better job at being Rebecca's son than Rebecca's blood son has been doing.

Am I wrong? I thought the man with the horse was Madison's OB/GYN I think you're on track. The doctor and his daughter taming the horse was an allegory to represent Kevin's life.

Hold. The. Phone. Somehow it took me this entire time to realize this is Major Dad. I watched that show! I loved that show! There's so much to unpack in this episode. I thought Older Jack's daughter would be Rebecca, but no, Hope. There's got to be something feeding that name. I wonder if Toby & Kate's adoptive daughter is called Rebecca. Her name wasn't mentioned (right?) and they flashed to her running when they mentioned "her name". That would make their kids Jack & Rebecca. Which honestly, would be cute. So we are obviously looking at a comparison of Older Jack and Kevin in this story. Older Jack is surprised by his girlfriend's pregnancy and while yeah, Madison isn't his girlfriend, Kevin is thrilled by the fact that she's pregnant. How weird will it be to see Older Madison make up next season? I love love that Madison is the mom. I love more that the show delivered the info. I have to give it to them - a lot of shows do bs hold out stuff (I'm looking at you HIMYM) but this show, while we don't know the whole story, doesn't leave the viewer completely devoid of info. I thought that close up of a ring was on Kevin's hand but with your comments, I may have been mistaken. So the redheaded girl is not a key person, right? I can't be the only one who thought for a split second that Madison's doctor was young Doctor K. Finally, and this is to be read as a Howler sent to Randall: WHAT IN THE ACTUAL F*#K!!!! I can't believe he would sit there an LIE to his siblings like that, then gaslight Kevin. I am all day Team Kevin. I know that Kevin's words were super harsh to Randall, but I honestly think he's been holding in a lot over the years and Randall pushed and pushed and pushed and got what he deserves.

You may be right about the reason for her fleeing, but my main point was in response to the idea that Rebecca had a 'snotty and uncalled for' reaction to the knowledge about the horses being harmed by the work. She didn't. These are both interesting takes. I took her reaction to be basically a combo of these two. I thought that not only did it jar her right into a vivid memory of Jack and the kids, he burst the bubble that the memory lived in by pointing out the flaws with carriage rides in Central Park. I think the memory being tarnished shook her and caused her to retreat so she could have those feelings alone because she realized it's a bit early to think about another man. I also think that pull and push she's having with herself represents the two views of Kevin & Randall. Mom is ready, let me push her into socializing with a man (Kevin) and alternatively, she is not ready, I need to protect her and keep her away from dating. She's having that same internal struggle that the boys are having outside of her. Which they continue to have now that she's facing a huge medical issue, which is easily the most traumatic thing she's faced since Jack's death and the grieving that followed it. In carriage related news, when Jack said he got the idea from Home Alone 2, did anyone else do quick mental math before he said "Home Alone 2" to see if the timing worked out that he got the idea from the Seinfeld episode where Kramer operates a carriage in the Park and feeds the horse a can of beans? No, just me? Cause I really wanted him to say "I got the idea from Seinfeld!" Haha.

Yep, and while it was a little more subtle than Kevin's present-day money related slam, Randall actually threw the first grenade in that fight 20 years ago when he, at the dinner table in NYC, said [paraphrase] You only call mom when you need money for your ridiculous acting class" [/paraphrase]. Welp, now he's paying it back to her and then some and you don't get to call the shots with his well earned acting money, Randall. Decades of douchebaggery.

Mandy Moore's playing of knowing better that the family needed to get off that train was perfection. Her deadpan response to Jack's insisting they stay on the train: "okay 😇 *blink* *blink*"...and later "yeah, we're going to QUEENS." Her face was great. OMFG they want me to hate Randall? They got it. Oooh he grinds me gears so bad. What an insufferable ass. For decades. For absolute sure Molly is Marc and Kate is seeing him still. For a fleeting moment, I worried they'd show her harming herself after they left and while she waited for Marc. There's clearly a lot going on under the surface. I also thought they might have padded the actress a little more to imply immediate weight gain between the cabin showdown with Marc and the NYC trip. I have less than zero interest in the alternate reality world episode next week. Boo. Prove me wrong, show. Are we going to see Uncle Nicky again this season?

It is on next week, the 10th. I think it was due to Super Tuesday - that's a guess, though. I get ragey when weeks are skipped, too.

Also the song Rebecca was listening to from that album in the record store, “Both Sides Now” mentions clouds related to changing perspectives on things at different times of your life. Ahhhh, thanks!

What do we think the title of the episode is about? I can usually figure out the connections but I'm left clueless this time. I can't think of anything about clouds in the episode. Is it representative of Rebecca's mind clouding?

This is a great observation. I wonder if we'll get a glimpse into teen Madison's story. If she turns out to be the mother of Kevin's baby and the writers are planning to flesh her story out more, maybe we will get to know her more.

A good episode, I thought. So, turns out Kevin is the more stable, capable brother after all. My DVR cut the promo for the next episode, but I am guessing Randall can't handle not being the hero because he thinks that's his identity - just look at his hand. The irony that he is the one who can't take care of his own family because of his untreated anxiety while he thinks Kevin is the family screw up is what I'm guessing to be a huge contributor to the rift that leaves Randall out of the birthday celebration in August. I'm so intrigued to see what will happen with Kate. She's shown with 4/5 year old Jack so we know she's around and in that house for a while. We know that Jack will grow up in that house at least throughout his teenage years. I continue to have a bad feeling in my gut about Kate's future. I loved seeing Jack's growing up scenes! I really can't wait to flesh that storyline out. There's still a question mark about who attends that dinner party in the future when his wife/fiancee is pregnant. I officially want Madison and Kevin to be a couple. Randall gives me anxiety. just watching him. I've really been adoring Kevin this season. My first dance with my husband at our wedding was CSNY "Our House" so it holds a lot of meaning for me. Watching those parallel scenes with young Rebecca/Jack & current Rebecca/Kevin singing and then watching Jack growing up playing music in the studio with it playing out the episode was one of my favorite parts of this season - maybe the show.

Good call! Oh good call.

Agree. I somehow think it works. Both Kevin & Madison are heady and into themselves & their own drama (tiny Madison came from weight watchers after all...) but also adore Kate. It's perfect, really.

Oh my gods, that was a great episode. Baby jack is DELICIOUS. More scenes with him. What a gorgeous little baby. I whispered out loud "OH.MY.GOD...IT'S OLDER KEVIN" as he got out of that car. 😍 I had a fleeting thought at some point in the past few seasons that maybe Kevin's fancy house was in the PA mountains - and wow, that's the only thing I've guessed right in terms of the BIG, broader plot line. I'm getting a little worried about where Kate is in the 15 years future scenes. 😞 Marc, you little shit. I can't believe he dropped that mug. Oh yes I can. I hope so much that's all we'll see of him, but the way he lingered and acted like he refused to budge when Rebecca said a few times he needed to go makes me worry he'll be lurking in the corner twirling his mustache in future episodes. Prove me wrong, show. Remember how Toby reacted to Kate when she needed to watch the super bowl with Jack's ashes? I feel like the mug thing was a nod to how Toby is so much better at handling her ongoing grief. Toby's handling of the choking was impressive. Thank goodness, cause I had been pretty irritated him for a while. Yay an episode we didn't have to hear the words cross or fit together. ETA: Rebecca's face as she turns from Kevin & Randall toward Marc? Those wild, wide Mama Bear eyes gave me chills. Mandy Moore nailed that moment. Edited to add this post/lose my double post. Madison's short scene was great. Again, I'm feeling Madison/Kevin more than I thought I would. She really holds her own against Kevin and has her own snark meter. And so not surprised she ended up telling Kate. Agree. I somehow think it works. Both Kevin & Madison are heady and into themselves & their own drama (tiny Madison came from weight watchers after all...) but also adore Kate. It's perfect, really.

I think this episode is especially tricky for keeping up with the ages because they show both (young) adult Kevin and senior in high school Kevin in the same episode. So, the scene at Rebecca's with the three young adults intersecting & we see their unique perspectives over the course of the three episodes? That one is post high school, a year after the fire. They are barely adults. Kevin got married, Randall is a freshman in college, and Kate lives at home still. The flashback scenes with Good Will Hunting/the bonfire in the woods with Sophie & Kevin take place on Super Bowl Sunday during the kids' senior year of high school, the night Jack dies in the fire. So it's a pretty fine line between "kid" and "adult" that we are talking about and I think we're looking at like a year and some change difference in their ages. The actors are all the same as well, so that's probably also part of the confusion. Also, I dressed like I did in high school at least a few years into college. I'm exactly the big three's age, so I basically dressed like Kate.

Okay, last comment on this episode. I mean it! There are just a TON of parallels between the storylines involving Kate & Marc meeting Rebecca and Jack meeting Rebecca's parents. Jack was rough around the edges but treated Rebecca well. Her dad was hard on Jack because he wasn't upper crust while her mom was more understanding. And Marc is like jagged and frayed and messy around the edges and Rebecca is having none of it for good reason. PS: Good to know EVERYONE sounds bad at the hand of a karaoke sound system.

A few more observations: Kate's "can you be the man I need you to be" and Rebecca telling her it's okay to ask Toby to step it up is a direct nod to the conversation Jack & Rebecca had on the couch when he was staying out after work and drinking with Miguel. Baby Jack is possibly the cutest baby on all of TV. He's so delicious. And if only my baby was as quiet and sleepy as he apparently is. Hahahaha.

Oh my gods, I think maybe! I am actually rewatching now and I"ll pay more attention. I have suspected for several episodes that they were leading up to an abusive relationship. Not sure if all emotional or some physical as well, but I think since we see Mark driving erratically and his all-alone day drinking when he's on the phone with Kate, there's a good chance he pushes her around. I mean, he literally shoved her out of a car. Grrr. ETA: Nah, it looks like the shadow of her nose. The moments prior to that, her lips are normal looking.

Soooo who the hell and what was that ending all about!?! I paused the final seconds and looking closely the guy is like late 20s, white, and holding a knife in his left hand. The show has a habit of teasing stuff that seems huge but turns out relatively minor/represents a bigger turning point (e.g. Deja smashing Randall’s windshield). I’m definitely stumped but kind of think it’ll be a low key plot point. [\quote]I kind of feel like Kate was overreacting to Toby's confession that he was having a hard time dealing with Jack being blind. Avoiding her about it wasn't good, at least he was being honest. Toby's feelings about his son's blindness seemed perfectly reasonable to me. He's still processing all of this and his reaction seems more normal to me than Kate being all rah rah rah. [\end quote] I feel both parents’ reactions were perfectly valid.