SassAndSnacks
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Posts posted by SassAndSnacks
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4 hours ago, gingerella said:
But when Claire responds in S01E01 - they are in the library with the Rev and Frank makes a comment about something and then something dismissive, assuming Claire wont get it, and she responds with a full litany of facts on that subject, Frank seems taken aback at her knowledge. He doesn't, IIRC, say how delighted he is that his wife knows these things, IIRC Claire is the one to toot her own horn saying something like "I do know things" (grossly paraphrasing!). To me, that was the perfect illustration of Frank not seeing Claire as his equal.
Yes, it is these subtle dismissals that really grate where Frank is concerned. They seem small, but they add up to an overall attitude and lack of appreciation where Claire is concerned.
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4 hours ago, Anothermi said:
How about the red shoes?
Mmmm...no...sorry. And I love shoes very, very much.
Cait is a former super model, so she can rock the shit out of any outfit, and we've seen her do it. And yes, she was rocking the shit out of that red dress. The shoes were actually my second least favorite part of the dress. Absolutely least favorite was the length. But I digress. We're trying to prevent an uprising here, people!
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37 minutes ago, Anothermi said:
What I found interesting is the juxtaposition of the male POV on women's role as a wife between 1744 and 1945. I didn't see much difference. Both men express their concerns—which I accept as appropriate—by trying to control what the woman can do—which I don't find acceptable in my time. In Jamie's time he is cornered into being the one who is actually able to step into the political world they both agree is the means to achieve their ends. Frank's world is still skewed towards men being the ones to be active in the world, but even he would be aware that women are doing things that were unthinkable—in genteeler circles—the generation before him. Both act as if it is their role to tell the woman what to do. Happily Claire just does what she needs to do—even if it conveniently assists her and Jamie's cause.
This is a great statement. I often wonder if I had gone back to this time, could I do it? Could I handle it? Hell no. I think any woman of this current time would struggle more than Claire did, not even considering Claire's unconventional upbringing for the time or modern conveniences. The social norms between the two time periods aren't vastly different for Claire, and it would be even more shocking for women today. The men are still calling the shots in both 1945 and 1745. The major adjustment for Claire, in terms of shot calling and agency and usefulness and belonging, probably came more from returning from the front after the war and settling back into her life as a wife.
While thinking of that, and getting a little bit down a rabbit-hole, consider the number of changes that have happened in Claire's life in a very short time - war ends, return home, reunite with husband, go through stones, face death and danger, function as an outsider, get married again, nearly lose spouse, get pregnant, go to France...some things we don't yet know...and then back into the present and back to Frank. It's a lot. So I forgive her for being a little outspoken and crabby sometimes.
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3 minutes ago, Anothermi said:
And this has me remembering the beginning of S01E01. Claire looking into the shop window at the beautiful blue vase—knowing that part of her wanted a place/ home of her own—and then going on to wonder what would have happened in her life if she had bought that vase—and the life path that went with it (in voice over).
Exactement! (as the French say, kinda...)
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7 hours ago, gingerella said:
I’m still baffled that Claire’s pregnancy is barely mentioned, it seems odd between these two people who have been through so such a short time, having a baby seems like it should be more of a big deal than the show is making it, it’s like an afterthought right now.
Yes. Let's also keep in mind that both Jamie and Claire believed she was unable to have children, which makes it even odder to me that they aren't talking about the pregnancy more. At this point, Claire has no idea that the fertility issues were actually on Frank's side of things and not hers, so THIS pregnancy would/should seem to be more miraculous and special.
7 hours ago, gingerella said:I was so NOT a fan of Jamie dashing in and out of the house, constantly hobnobbing with BPC and the Ministry of Finance, that isn’t the same Jamie...
Though I understand his side, I was disappointed in his reaction to Claire volunteering at the hospital. He is playing this great game of pretend, and we've seen before that he can more easily slide in and out of roles. But Claire cannot. She couldn't possibly sit all day, having tea and playing cards with the ladies without shooting off her mouth and saying something wrong. She is obviously very passionate about helping people and she's freaking good at it. I'm glad he saw the opportunity the hospital presented in the end.
The distance between them is unsettling, but I think that's the point. They are fish out of water here, both in Paris proper and with the game they are playing. They know it and we know it, yet they keep at it and we keep watching.
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On 3/28/2021 at 1:32 AM, Anothermi said:
And I loved when Jamie says: Is your longing for home worth the murder of a prince and The King? No, for all we know, the death of his son would make James even more determined to sit on the English throne.
And Murtagh replies: I talk of action and YOU give me logic.
My favorite part of this episode. The rest...meh. Just a lot of exposition that didn't do much for me, really. And I know this is sacrilege, but I did not care for the red dress.
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I run away for a few days and now I have so much to read and so many responses floating around in my head. This is going to be a great day!! (I mean, I probably won't bill as many hours to clients today but...hmmpf...I'll catch up later. This is important!)
On 3/27/2021 at 8:35 PM, gingerella said:Something that's been bothering me about Frank - well let's be honest, everything about him bothers me - but I can only surmise that his clench-fisted violent outburst towards Claire was meant as a clear parallel to show viewers that 'it runs in the family', and yet Claire stays with him despite what she knows of his ancestor. Again, this Claire doesn't feel at all like vibrant, fully alive Claire whom we know when she's with Jamie. The whole dichotomy of who Claire is with Jamie vs. Frank is shockingly different IMO. A woman who dims her light for one man because his ego is more important than his wife, and another man who allows his wife to shine even when he doesn't agree with what she's doing.
This made me laugh. Ugh, Frank. Blah. It IS really striking how different Claire is between Jamie and Frank. Your last statement is incredibly important for all of us. If I had a daughter, I would embroider this on her pillow...if I could thread a needle and you know, actually embroider. Sometimes, people inadvertently steal our sparkle, and we don't even know it (and maybe they don't even know they've done it).
On 3/28/2021 at 12:09 AM, Anothermi said:The fact that Frank has a breaking point does not make him like BJR. It makes him like many, many other men. The fact that he can stop himself from taking out his anger at that—that another man gave HIS WIFE something he could not but dearly wanted to—and leave her to take his anger else where? That is not BJR levels of crazy. He is not enjoying those emotions. He fought against feeling them after she "left "—when all around him encouraged him to believe that he had a right to feel them.
When I think back to the scenes we were shown of Frank and Claire's wedding? I now see it from Frank's point of view. He was doing something spontaneous—perhaps wild and uncalculated—something that most people who knew him would never suspect he had in him. Something that was deeply meaningful to him. From where we are now in this saga it seems clear to me that he loved Claire much more than she loved him. She was delighted with his spontaneous impulse and enjoyed participating in it. But I can't help but think that if they weren't in the middle of a war? She would have wanted some time to consider his proposal.
He wanted to be with her forever, from that moment on. She was thinking of other things she wanted to do—like do her part in the life changing event that was WW ll. She would not have been the only woman who mistook the urgency of the times for love.
I appreciate this take. I think there's a lot of truth to this. Perhaps he knew she wasn't quite where he was in terms of affection, which is why he held on so tightly.
12 hours ago, gingerella said:I guess what I glean from their scenes together is a melancholy in her that doesn't jive with a happy wife, more wistful, like someone who made their bed and now will lie in it because that's what her duty is now. But I like hearing your take because admittedly I am an anti-Frankite!
We are all familiar with the very-true-to-life story of a woman marrying too young and then wistfully looks back on her life with regret. With the war looming at the time of their marriage, it was probably hard to see what their life would really look like. At 20, I didn't know what the F I was doing with anything. Now that the war is over, and Frank is talking of settling down and having a family, that has to give Claire some pause. This is a life she has never had. Does she want something like this? Can she happily live like this?
As for timing and timelines and years and dates and what happened when, I'll let you all continue to ponder that.
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14 hours ago, gingerella said:
Okaaaay....My first reaction to the opening scene was, 'Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!'
I have been waiting for this reaction from you for DAYS!!! It was so challenging to watch your emotions run the gamut from Season 1 knowing that this was coming up for the three of you. But here you all are, and I'm so excited about it!
14 hours ago, gingerella said:She clearly seems miserable at the thought of being with Frank again and she doesn't even act like Claire that we now know, she reverts to quiet, accommodating Claire, the Claire that doesn't show who she truly is, who dims her light in front of her husband because he cannot take being not as amazing as she is. And now it is so painfully clear that Jamie and she are meant to be
Cait's range in this episode is nothing short of incredible. It's like we are watching two Claires. I love how half way through, we see her come to life again as she walks down the gangplank and Jamie reaches to her. The embrace when she gets to him...oh, my heart.
13 hours ago, Anothermi said:Of course my mind—along with Claire's— flew to Jamie's curiosity about flying when she told him about it.
Oooh, what a great catch!
12 hours ago, gingerella said:‘Jamie made me come back, he made me promise to forget him’ - the subtext is clear, at least to me, ‘I would’ve never come back if Jamie hadn’t made me.’ Ouch.
Loved it!
2 hours ago, Pallas said:This makes their every scene together now more precious, and raised the stakes in a way that we can more easily empathize with. Few of us have halted an insurgency. Everyone has lost someone, and lived past a dream.
This so true and so perfectly stated. Perhaps that why I love the gangplank scene and the first embrace in Le Havre with Jamie. My immediate thought was relief and "Oh, thank goodness!" But, every interaction of theirs now seems to be polarized, and I'm hanging on every word and action.
15 hours ago, gingerella said:I have a lot of questions...
🤐
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On 3/23/2021 at 8:49 AM, Pallas said:
Now, Claire's no master of indirection; if she wanted the big event with all Frank's family there, she'd have said -- or at least, given some indication.
True. But, Claire really isn't one for a lot of fuss for any occasion.
My take on the Frank wedding is that Claire wasn't expecting it and went along with it. She was a willing participant, but it always came across to me as "this is something to do and it could be fun."
7 hours ago, gingerella said:she also seems so much more docile Claire-like compared to the Claire we come to know with Jamie, and I say that based solely on his Frankcentric blethering on about is ancestors with the Reverend, he just seems like this always about him and his wife is a decoration in his life. I also felt like Jamie created this romantic gesture because he knows this thing is bigger than both of them, it's forever, even if Claire doesnt know it quite yet.
Absolutely. Frank stifles her. It's not an overwhelming overpowering, which makes it even more dangerous. He stifles passively and bit by bit.
On 3/23/2021 at 8:49 AM, Pallas said:It's symbolic of a whole world that Jamie is making available to her, despite his current status as an outlaw.
Yes! Jamie doesn't have much to offer her, and he knows that. He's giving her what he can. It comes off as so much more heartfelt and true and thoughtful. But I'm biased. I loathe Frank too much to see that he would have ever done anything just for Claire.
7 hours ago, gingerella said:when he tells her how when she kissed him he thought maybe she wasn’t so sorry to be marrying him after all, the look on his face as she touches him, and he realizes that she feels more than he thought she did, that’s just got to be one of my favorite moments of this season.
Swoon. I also love the comment about her hair. You could see Claire weakening her defenses and falling in there. (Or am I projecting?)
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8 hours ago, Anothermi said:
I'm posting a link to the page of the blog that deals with this episode. Click on it or not. It's your choice.
This is brilliant! Thanks so much for sharing.
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1 hour ago, gingerella said:
Well I've had alot of help from @Anothermi too, and @Pallas should be rejoining our little group shortly. She was sent on errands to Castle Leoch but shall return soon to us.
Of course! I didn’t want to tag them until they were ready to join this thread.
1 hour ago, gingerella said:And Michelle Kwan, girrrrlllll, do NOT get me started on how robbed she was at the Olympics!!
Did we just become best friends?
1 hour ago, gingerella said:This post really helped soothe me this morning, thank you.
Oh, good!!
15 minutes ago, Anothermi said:The one thing I really appreciate about her is her persistent support of other women—despite being betrayed by many of them (Leery, Geillis' servant and the mother of the "changeling" child off—the top of my head).
Me too. She may not like them, but she doesn’t trash them for the sake of trashing them.
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Also, I think we should give ourselves a pat on the back. This thread is marked as "hot" and is trending on Primetimer right now....7 years after the episode first aired. If that's not an accomplishment...
Kudos to @gingerella for keeping things alive for us!
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28 minutes ago, Camera One said:
I continue to watch this show and I do think it's because of the style of storytelling. For the most part, there are enough quiet moments that follow that I like watching. Plus it helps at least for me to rationalize it that some of this brutality did occur historically, and I love historical fiction.
The "quiet moments" are popular topics among the Book Readers, so I think you've touched on an important observation. The quiet moments in this show are incredibly powerful, much more so than the violence, fighting, conflict moments. The simple gestures, looks, and connections make this show, as far as I'm concerned. They add a layer of comfort, sensitivity, and emotion that few shows are able to capture.
31 minutes ago, Camera One said:I really like Claire too.
Hooray!!!!
14 minutes ago, Beeyago said:On to season 2!!
Sea-son 2!! Sea-son 2!! Sea-son 2!!
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8 minutes ago, Beeyago said:
You’re a Claire fangirl??
Ha! This made me laugh SO hard. I AM!!! I know, I know. She IS annoying and impulsive and occasionally bitchy and sometimes self-centered and a know-it-all and she speaks without thinking. I, too, am all of these things, and I recognize her and empathize with her. She's also incredibly caring and intelligent and funny. She's my girl. Well, her and Michelle Kwan...but that's a totally different forum.
I think the show makes her a little too "in your face." I like to think that she wouldn't be quite as obnoxious.
Can we still be Outlander Fandom friends?
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6 hours ago, gingerella said:
Then I think of who Jamie is thus far, and really he is a simple soul who feels things deeply, more deeply than anyone and I guess it makes sense? Ah Fuck, none of this makes sense, who am I kidding.
It doesn't make sense, but when does this sort of thing ever make sense? (I say that not in a condescending or angry tone. It is definitely a resigned, sad tone.) After I first watched this episode, and through my time as an enthusiastic fan and reader of this series, I had to assess why I like the whole story so much because it is freaking violent and sad and dirty and weird and inappropriate and a lot of not great things. And I felt really guilty for awhile that I like it so much, because surely there must be something wrong with me since I do like is so much.
It's really about a whole journey. And life in general is a whole journey with some truly amazing, beautiful moments and then some other earth-shattering, soul-splintering moments. How do we as people continue to pick ourselves up and keep going? It is a concept and an action that has always fascinated me, the way that people are so resilient.
I appreciate, deeply, how this show (and thereby this story) doesn't shy away from the absolute shittiness that can happen to a truly good person like Jamie. Initially with BJR, Jamie was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and look at how that moment completely changed the course of his life. And then Claire pops out of some rocks and look at how that moment further changes the course. Every day we make such minor decisions that can unwittingly change the course of the rest of our lives. It's heavy but true. But how will Jamie rise above all of this, where does he go now?
I also appreciate how the show tells the story, and I think it does it in a way that is very different from GoT. I think it does handle these situations with a lot of care and sensitivity. Personally, this episode taught me a lot on a subject I probably would have never explored nor ever cared to explore. Strangely, I feel like a better person for it.
I also comfort myself with my fandom by recognizing that I love the beautiful relationships laid out in the story. Jamie has such wonderful support from Claire, Murtagh, and Ian. He has a sister that would do absolutely anything for him. People are drawn to him. I love how Claire is the focus of the story, but we get to watch the evolution of Jamie happening parallel to her. And because I'm a Claire fangirl, I like to think that she has played a huge part in the evolution and helped to make the man that is Jamie Fraser.
I didn't mean to get all soap-boxy. Outlander makes me introspective.
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7 hours ago, gingerella said:
I don’t have a lot to say other than Jamie is lucky to have Claire and Murtagh on his team.
Yes.
The only encouragement I have is to hang in there.
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On 3/21/2021 at 3:59 AM, gingerella said:
Jenny is a fucking badass!
14 hours ago, Anothermi said:Gotta say I was so pleased that they showed that. I did think throwing it away was such a waste, but... taboos.
Again, I love that the two of you saw this, appreciated it, and moved on. This is another one of those scenes that people get SO hung up on. I nursed my three babes and this portrayal was so freaking realistic.
This is my least favorite episode of the season, so I'm going to butt out of the other comments and move on to the next episode.
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On 3/21/2021 at 2:50 AM, gingerella said:
We learn Will died of smallpox, which is interesting since smallpox is how Claire describes her smallpox vaccine make after Jaime rescues her from the trial, so surely that must have been more impactful to Jamie since he lost his brother to smallpox. I love these subtle little nuances in the story.
Me too. The care they take to make these connections adds a layer to the experience and enriches the whole story.
My favorite part of this episode was watching Jamie become THE man right before our eyes. I'm paraphrasing - "Did you kill Horrocks?" Jamie, calmly buttering a bannock - "Yup, so?"
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13 hours ago, Anothermi said:
I appreciated the slower pace of this episode.
I really love this episode.
It isn't until Jamie and Jenny reconcile that you really understand that such a huge part of who Jamie is has been missing. His sister helped bring that piece of his life back to him. I also cannot imagine the guilt he felt over his father's death - not ever really knowing what happened, believing he caused it to happen, and never being able to say goodbye and make peace with it.
13 hours ago, Anothermi said:I think that—because he now knows why she's not behaving like he and others would expect—he is able to explain his point in a way that she can accept.
Yes! And I would think that this will only enrich his already uncanny ability to frame things for her in a way that she will understand. But, Claire being Claire, will she listen? She does here and her approach definitely worked.
I love LOVE some of Jamie's one-liners in this episode.
Claire - "Hair of the dog?"
Jamie - "I need the whole hound."
Also very much appreciated the incredibly realistic snapshot of married life, when Jamie comes to bed drunk, slaps Claire on the ass, and the "Are you F-ing serious?" look she gives him in return. It's like someone spied on my life and put it in a tv show set in 1743.
As to all of your other questions and comments, I willna tell.
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On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:
Claire: Is that what I think it is?
Geillis: Well, it's not a may pole Claire.
They could have taken that show on the road—in another series.
I DO love their banter.
On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:And his acceptance of it without reservation. It touched me because I think we're all looking for someone who will accept us for who we are and that is the gift that Claire gets. I did like when he joked he'd have found it easier to accept that she was a witch. Much need levity.
Then when he asks her if she's ready to go home and she's accepted that Lallybroch will be her home—he takes her to the standing stones. Where she has to choose. That segment has me thinking it is more the “certain people” rather than “at certain times” that determines who the stones will transport. But they set up the final decision well for us viewers. I couldn't see her leaving Jamie after he had accepted and trusted her completely, even if she was torn. Frank would never have been capable of that.
I'm a firm believe that Frank resents her specialness.
On 3/18/2021 at 10:32 PM, Anothermi said:It appeared that she'd moved the gold ring to her left hand and the key ring to her right to prepare.
Claire has always worn Jamie's ring on her right. It is my understanding that some cultures/religions do this, and that many European Catholics wear their wedding rings on their right hands.
19 hours ago, gingerella said:what I got from that scene was that each wedding ring stood for completely different paths - Frank's ring was made of precious metal, gold, and it was smooth. Those two things to me symbolized that returning to her life with Frank would be richer in terms of materials goods and means and creature comforts, and it would be a much smoother existence to just go back and be the don's wife at Oxford. When she was touching Jaime's ring, I saw a ring made of iron, not precious metal, and made out of a common key no less! Its surface was dimpled with hammer marks from the blacksmith who made it (not a fancy jeweller) - and to me it symbolized that Claire's life with Jaime was not about a cushy life filled with precious jewelry and comfortable things and lived smoothly without strife. No, Claire's life with Jaime was just like the ring he gave her, it would be a simpler life in many ways, filled with many bumps in the road just like the hammered bumps in the ring itself, but this life with James Fraser, the preciousness would be living and loving with this man, no gold, no smooth sailing would make this life any sweeter. In fact, it was all the bumps and hardships they are still to face that make her life with Jaime precious in a way that life with Frank could never, would never be. All that I got in that short scene of Claire fiddling with two rings. That's some good story telling and some great film shooting if you ask me.
Ahhh. Again, your analysis amazes me. How gorgeously put this all is. Along this vein, interesting that in the Wedding, Claire can see her reflection in Frank's ring. She knows what her life would be like with him. She can see it.
19 hours ago, gingerella said:Lastly, when Jaime awakens by the fire to see Claire standing there, he seems truly surprised, and after I rewatched that scene a few times I realized there is a tear streaming down his face when she says "Take me home to Lallybroch". Damn. And so, to A Show I must say, "I came to you at Netflix with nothing but an empty mind and me bare hands...when I heard your opening song...You're tearing me guts out, Show..."
YESSSSSS!!!!!
I have so many other things to add to what has been said, but I don't trust myself to open a box that cannot be closed. Must. Be. Patient.
Also, Last Kingdom...highly recommend. But Uhtred is no Jamie Fraser, ye ken?
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2 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:
What’s wrong with 80’s hair?
As a child of the 80’s, there is nothing wrong with 80’s hair.
Jamie’s hair is curly throughout every episode we’ve seen so far, but when he meets Claire for the wedding, his hair is straight, so he clearly took some pains with the grooming, ye ken? Color me pleased that as the episode progresses, he goes back to his normal tousled look. Sigh.
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3 hours ago, gingerella said:
1. Leery says to Claire early on that she knows Jaime is in love with someone else. She doesn't say it's Claire but I assumed that is what she meant, even if Claire's not yet aware of his feelings. So why does she suddenly say he's hers and she's his? It makes no sense in terms of the story and dialogue we've already been shown. And why wouldn't Jaime tell her to back off, or tell Mrs. Fitz to have a word with her so she's less embarrassed about it.
2. After Jaime rescues Claire from Ft. William they jump into the river and then they're riding along the river and their clothes look perfectly dry. Jamie's said it'll be Yule when they get back to Leoch, so it must be December. How are they not sick as dogs wearing wet clothes after jumping into icy Scottish waters that time of year?!?
3. Leticia says its been a long time since there was a wedding in the castle, so I assumed they'd have a proper castle wedding - or feast at least - but that never happened.
4. Claire goes to the Stones and sees her plaid wrap laying on the ground where she left it when she arrives, and she STILL doesn't pick it up! I want to know if it's Fraser tartan because it looks like it!
5. And last but not least, Id like to see some sort of bathing, just because...hygiene...
1. I think they both underestimate Leery. She's supposed to be about 16, I think, so much younger than the two of them. They both discount the impact she could have. And I also think they respect Mrs. Fitz too much to say something bad about her granddaughter. Maybe? Anyone, someone should have been more clear.
2. They had been riding for awhile, but yeah...wool takes a long time to dry and it wasn't warm outside.
3. Strong point.
4. Wait, what? WHAT?! How did I miss THAT?!
5. This is one of those silly things in the books that actually provides a lot of context for underlying dynamics in the story as a whole. I don't think this is spoilery -
SpoilerAt one point in the book, Jamie does comment to Claire that she is the cleanest person he knows because she is always washing herself...hands, face, other bits.
We do occasionally see Claire washing in various streams, though. And Mrs. Fitz did dump some water over Claire's head when she first arrived at Leoch. But, you're right, so far, that's all we've gotten. So, Claire is relatively clean, at least. Colum did shave for the Gathering. Jamie apparently had an 80's-style blow out for the Wedding. Not sure about anyone else.
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@Anothermi - I don't want you to be spoiled. You're in the wrong thread!!
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3 hours ago, gingerella said:
One thing about this episode thats been on my mind is this - in the opening scene Jaime is talking about his life choices and saying he hadn't thought he was being deliberate but rather he was just taking steps forward to keep moving. But then one day he realized that all those steps are what led him to where he is right now, and he realizes he is a man now. Heady stuff, which is jarring because we see a blond woman walking towards him out of focus slightly, by the river, but we can tell it looks like Leery, giving me an ominous feeling of dread and thinking, "Nooooo, she isn't the one for Jaime!" Then we see that scene play out in the episode and Leery tries to get Jaime to be with her and cheat on Claire and he rebuffs her saying "I won't break my vows to Claire", or something like that. I am trying to resolve the opening scene voice over with seeing the actual scene unfold in the episode. I'm wondering if his thinking by the river, and his refusal of what would have been an easy quickie with someone else, was a deeper reckoning of how much he already loved Claire? I know they'd already had their emotionally intense scene when they stopped to water the horses on the way home, and he'd said he'd forgiven her for anything she would ever do already because that was no choice for him because he was falling in love with her. Was his rebuff of Leery another level of the same realization? Or maybe that's where he realized that he'd need to find a way to resolve the anger he knew Claire was still feeling after the spanking?
I don't think I should/can respond to this right now. I have very strong feelings where Laoghaire is concerned, and I'm trying to be careful what I say to the three of you.
3 hours ago, Cdh20 said:I know everyone is annoyed that Jamie doesn’t tell Laoghaire that he’s in love with Claire but he hasn’t told Claire he’s in love with her yet
1 hour ago, gingerella said:Really? I thought he had already by the end of their wedding night, or somewhere along the way after that, no? I cannot recall an exact scene but I thought they both told the other they love one another. Did that happen in the make up scene or was he saying he wanted her? Alot of the time I can't make out the exact words without blasting them several times because the dialogue is quieter. I think in the make up scene he's saying, "I want you, tell me you want me" and she says, "I do" but at first I thought he was telling her he loved her.
They definitely haven't said the I Love Yous yet. Trust me here.
1 hour ago, Anothermi said:But the question of WHY he chose to be a virgin until married remains unanswered. It wasn't the standard thing for men to do. Even his mates didn't understand it and ribbed him about it.
This is a point that I don't believe is ever explained in the show, but careful book readers know it. This is one area where the show needed to do more.
1 hour ago, gingerella said:because he considered himself a loser what with having a price on his head.
I don't know that he thought this per se. I think it was more that he didn't want to drag someone else into his current mess, and he certainly didn't feel like he could "be a man" and provide for a potential wife.
1 hour ago, gingerella said:It must have blown his mind to find himself married to this extraordinary woman with whom he was falling in love when he probably thought he might never have anyone.
I think this is very true.
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S02.E03: Useful Occupations And Deceptions
in Outlander
· Edited by SassAndSnacks
I think this ties back so nicely to the point you made in the the S2.01 thread, where you pointed out that Frank dismissed Claire's knowledge of what and who the Jacobites were and why they were named as such. Jamie doesn't take Claire's knowledge for granted. In fact, he values and embraces it.
But I'll stop with the Frank pile-on now.
Oooh, good point. These two are both so confidant - in their cleverness, their relationship, their perceived destiny - they underestimate other people in the process.
Hmm, perhaps as a field nurse, she was able to rely on her natural talents for empathy and healing? She was in her zone, comfortable, and in control. In these other situations, she was playing someone else's game and foolishly thought she could gain the upper hand. In a battlefield hospital, SHE was needed. The men needed her to advance their position, which in this instance was getting better, gaining some comfort, a simple touch. In those other situations - with the Duke, Dougal, Colum, BJR - she needed something from the men.
This makes sense. They are physical, emotional people. When the physical is taken away, other facets of their relationship suffer.