Lastcall

I think that is something that would have been explained if they got a back nine. As it was, much had to be cut to give 13 a proper ending. There are many clues though. We know at some point Dean took a shortcut to look for a universe where John and Mary had a happily ever after. We don't know when he found out about the Akrida or the mechanism he used to travel the multiverse. I believe Henry was the one who knew about Chuck's fail safes, gave him the letter and sent Dean on his way after giving him the rule that he couldn't interfere. It's clunky why Henry would give him the rule and send him but it's what we have. If we had the back 9, I'm sure it would have been Cas but the way 13 ends it looks like Dean had no contact with him or Jack. I'm assuming he went through a portal and that's how Bobby went on his calvary quest. We know Dean is corporeal. You can take the letter delivery two ways but to me it looked like a Batman move and not a teleport. We also know from the old series finale that Dean can eat, drink and taste just like if he were alive so the Dean we see in The Winchesters is exactly as he was when he was alive with the benefit of being unkillable.

No worries, your opinion is perfectly reasonable. I did check the TVline comments after the heads up and was very surprised at how many Sam Stans were tearing down the show. I finally watched the mothership Series Finale and it reinforced everything I hated about the last 4 season. Once again Dean tears himself down and gushes about how perfect Sam is while Sam nods and agrees with everything Dean says. Every character from the old show got a fantastic ending or at least the ending their actors wanted, including ones that were off screen. The only one that had a horrible ending was Dean (and Ketch but he really didn't deserve a good end). Jensen deserved to have a say in Dean's final appearance, and I am so grateful he finally got that. Unfortunately, it is very apparent that The Winchesters needed those back 9 episodes. Robbie started planning the story when Pedowitz was running things and they were virtually guaranteed 22 episodes. I think the reason everything seemed rushed and there was so much tell over show is that they had to condense everything. Story was substituted with exposition. The Queens story would have been spread out much longer and we have learned that story over multiple episodes and she would have seemed much more of a threat. I imagine that the episode Jensen wanted to direct would have shown the Scoobies surrounded by Akrida and the Queen followed by Dean showing up and slaughtering them left and right. Then, just when he is about to kill the Queen, she throws him in the portal to be torn apart for centuries. The Scoobies would feel defeated, Dean would seem dead, and the Queen would be a threat. The final episode would play the same, but they probably would have ended the Queen with something better than "run over by a car" (even if its Baby). In the end, all stuff probably better living in my head. What Jensen and Robbie gave us under the conditions they were under is awesome, so I hope they get everything they want for the show in the future.

Various thoughts on the comments I don't see why anyone would be upset that Dean died. He travels the universe, he has a physical form, he can communicate with people and hang out with his friends. He is still hunting and can do all the things he was doing while alive on his Earth. All Dean's death did was make him unkillable per the last episode. As for the AU reveal, the only thing I was really enjoying about the actual show was the lore, now that's ruined. This isn't an altered timeline, Samuel's hair shows there are differences, so all monster lore we got from this season is suspect. I'm glad now that they didn't do young Bobby and Rufus, it would seem pointless now. I know people like the show but if by some miracle it is picked up, I'll keep an ear out for more actual main world OG characters and tune in for those. The show had a lot of faults due to all the bad luck and restrictions placed on them this year. I'm very grateful for what Jensen and Robbie pulled off with all the disadvantages they had. I honestly hope there isn't a reboot or Season 16 now. I wasn't happy with Jared's Jib con comment about Sam knew it was better that Dean died first as he wouldn't have lived long without him. Jared was a big Dabb supporter and still defends those seasons and maintains the finale was the best SPN episode of the series. We have seen the lengths Jensen went through to get a Dean ending he didn't have to compromise on. Those two will have to have a major discussion and make some compromises for a continuation to become a reality. I could see a nightmare scenario with Dabb and Robbie as co-showrunners. The ending we got was kinda perfect considering the limitations. I wouldn't like going back to Supernatural ending horribly.

Still processing it all but in a good way which is such a pleasant change from the last few years of the old. Several random thoughts, I still hate AU's. If I had connected with any of the characters, I would be pretty angry about it. Could never stand fake Bobby and it robbed the old show of probably the best Dean fight of the series (which was never scripted, Jensen added it because he thought it would be fun and they never gave a scene like that to real Dean). I do appreciate that it solves any continuity issues, actor casting and canon conflicts. Robbie was true to his word and the ending did explain everything. Loved that they fixed the colt! Just another great way to stick it a little to Dabb. Also, I enjoy Dean's wardrobe and hair style change. It shows a significant passage of time, and that Dean is evolving from the strict uniform he usually adhered to most of his life. He could have spent decades for all we know, scouring the multiverse for the one successful Mary/John ending. Very surprised and happy that Bobby got in on the action, had his own story, mission and has been hanging out with Dean. I am conflicted about the Dean story. As much as I would have loved Dean in every episode, I kind of like the bare bones framework they gave us. It lets everyone's imagination fill in the blanks with their own story which, let's face it, is probably better than anything they would have given us. There weren't a lot of answers to the questions they raised but there is a huge amount of potential. We know Dean wasn't just driving around alone in Heaven. He was exploring the universe, he was communicating and interacting with people in Heaven and the multiverse. He survived being hunted in a Chuckless world for a good number of episodes and had some form of confrontation with the Akrida. He spent months in the 70's and maybe decades in different time periods throughout the multiverse. He is still breaking the rules and saving the world and the most important thing of all, the end of his story is not a 4-minute car ride to a bridge.

Got to give Robbie credit, he managed to pull it all together. This episode really took the edge off that horrible series finale. This is my Supernatural series finale and now I get a little bonus episode since I can watch 15x20 instead of just the last 10 minutes. Don't really care that the series takes place in a knock off dimension as I never really connected with any of the characters, but I appreciated the Samuel hair reference and the overall respecting of canon of the old show. Looks like Jack restored all of the universes Chuck destroyed and the show does take place in a Chuckless universe. The show has absolutely been cancelled no matter what Robbie has been saying in interviews and he probably knows no one is picking it up considering how they ended the episode. Have to really give it up for Jensen though. I would have preferred Dean living his life in the 70's but I am still overjoyed with what he did. He completely unraveled the series finale. Instead of a 4-minute drive in the country, Dean has been traveling the multiverse, found a threat to all of it and once again saved creation. He's been hanging out with Bobby, he can visit other universes as long as he doesn't interfere and he can still be the hero. In the craziest art imitates life situation, Jensen was told Dean's fate and that he had to accept it. Jensen stayed professional but kept fighting to end the story on his own terms and by some miracle succeeded. And that is the most Dean Winchester thing Jensen has ever done.

Yeah, the show is getting to be a real slough to get through. Some of this is due to the large cast. I think this is the sixth traumatic background, so you bond with the character story this season. I wish I was patient enough to watch the episode when I could skim through the boring bits, but I can't stop watching live. The Akrida are a bust for me...just a knock off of a Season 7 monster who weren't that popular to begin with. I'm starting to worry I gave Robbie too much credit. It seems MAK is right with the AU theory. If John is right, then Dean could simply have Dimension hopped from a point he was alive on the show or maybe being dead in heaven counts too. I'm actually fine with the characters being knock offs of the prime dimension. They just haven't clicked with me (which is a surprise...I thought John would be that character). All and all the show comes off like the high school production in the 200th episode. Lots of passion but the inexperience really shows. On a positive note, at least Dean gets another world save under his belt which I never expected so still a win.

So, news just broke that Rowena is going to be in episode 12. All the synopsis are out and the one for 13 implies that the "mysterious stranger" delivers a message to John at the beginning of the episode. Now I kind of think that maybe Rowena either intercepted Dean before he went to Heaven (and Dean is driving the actual impala that exists in 72) or she was the one that stops him on his ride. I'm guessing the end of 12 has a Dean appearance to generate excitement for 13 and 13 picks up with Dean delivering his message and either vanishing back to Heaven (hope not) or going off to take care of something else (fingers crossed).

I think any supernatural project Pedowitz would have approved would have involved fixing Dean's ending. Jensen went into the Season Finale pitch at the start of season 15 expecting it to be a collaboration but it turned into Dabb informing him what the ending would be. Jensen's struggles with that are well documented and I believe he started the ball rolling with Pedowitz way before Nexstar was on the horizon. Jensen took Pedowitz's mandate and assembled his team to build a show around everyone's strengths and the series came from that. Jensen loves John and Mary; Daneel loves the 70's and Robbie tied it all together. At that time, all they had to get was get a pickup because Pedowitz almost never cancelled shows. Of course, Jensen wants the show to be a big success. Not only for himself and his production company but for the actors he assembled as well. It's not just the story or Dean's ending, Jensen wanted to recreate that family feel he had for 15 years in Canada. I believe he genuinely loves the cast and crew he assembled and is doing everything possible to help them succeed. I just think the impetus of this was always the bad ending Dean got.

Thats what is brilliant about how they played this. Every shot of the Finale is still canon and those that loved it still have it. You are 100% correct that Dean's story is overwritten. Dabb did everything in his power to put Dean in an escape proof box. Jared tried to soften it by saying he believed there were years between 19 and 20 but it's pretty clear what Dabb intended. Dean died the first hunt he went on without Chuck writing and had 4-minute drive to a bridge before being reunited with Sam. Sam had a wide door open for future adventures with or without Dean II while also setting up a Dean II show in the future. Jensen and Robbie did overwrite the Dean side of the story. He gets a world save and is responsible for every good thing the Scooby gang does from the moment they banded together. He has gotten at least a few more months of life and has survived the Akrida hunting him without Chuck's protection. All of that is a huge win for Jensen and the Dean fans.

Someone said Misha said he going to be on The Winchesters at a convention. I believe it, it's the best explanation for how Dean travels back and there is too much potential for closure. Sam is a possibility. They could have a 90 something Dean show up on his doorstep and deliver the journal (which considering the Sam wig might be a bad idea) or the Journal is dropped off with Sam and it closes with him reading the true story. I can't see Jensen overwriting the ending of the series finale. Jared loves the episode too much and pretty much the entire cast got the ending they wanted excepting Jensen. I think this Dean arc is about getting the ending Jensen wanted for him instead of having to eat what he was given.

Yeah, I meant the second episode of season 1. Pedowitz would have greenlit anything Jensen pitched at that point; he had nothing to lose. They have a close enough relationship that he would have told him what was about to happen. We are still ahead of the game, Dean has another world save under his belt. It's still near impossible for this show to continue. The ratings have been tanking. Last week was below 300k. Over half the fans that watched the first episode have left and many of the ones that remain are having fits on twitter over a creature from Jewish folklore being killed in an oven. The only thing it has going for it is being in the top 10 on HBOMax but I don't see how that makes Zaslav money. I can't see any other streamers wanting the show since everyone from the original show is willing to do another. If Walker is cancelled, they would get much more out of a limited series with Sam and Dean, they just need to wait a little while.

I think Pedowitz knew the writing was on the wall before he even greenlit the series. He hooked up Jensen, Jared and Misha with three new shows to at least give them a shot to succeed. When the three pilots were filming, they probably knew they were one season shows, they just didn't know how quickly Pedowitz would be gone. The hope was 22 episodes, but it should have been pretty clear that 13 was it. Everyone wants more episodes and seasons, but they have been given enough time to tell a complete supernatural story with a beginning, middle and end. I think Jensen's main goal was to get something greenlit so he could fix Dean's ending and set up a place to play Dean whenever he got the itch. So, it's not a big stretch to interpret that as a one and done show. I believe this is why everything feels so rushed. They should have known as soon as they started filming season 2 that further episodes past 13 were a long shot. So, they are running through their checklist. They showed Mary being a badass, they had John and Mary's first kiss, they all are going to save the world and mostly, they are going to fix Dean's ending. Unfortunately, that means there isn't enough time for other things that I was sure were slam dunks, particularly young Bobby and Rufus.

I think all of this depends on the card flip in the last episode. It's hard to really figure out what is going on until then. Many of the complaints and confusion will be solved if the explanation is good enough. We have seen what happens when the main timeline is changed on the old show...the future just molds into the new reality. Right now, the future could have been changed by the Akrida, Dean or both. If it's an AU, it all ends with Chuck destroying it. Also, would be nice if they address that elephant. If it's the past, then Chuck should know what's going on and what is going to happen to him in the future. It would explain why everyone is fighting at Season 15 Sam and Dean levels if he was writing the story again. I would be interested in knowing if this is a chuckless world or not. I'm still hoping the big reveal will give a new perspective on the series as a whole. I can't really see revisiting these episodes otherwise.

I've thought about an AU but if it is then Chuck destroys it which is a downer. Jack might have restored them all so they may address that. Dean travelling back in time from the prime universe could have caused a parallel timeline where Chuck has no influence, thus two universes. I can't see Dean permanently changing the prime timeline because fans would go nuts if Dean was the only character to remember the old universe (though I would be fine with it). I can't see a way around a reset, but I couldn't see a way to do a reboot without the finale being a dream or disregarded entirely. Main reason I can't see Dean dying again, Jensen's finale death scene has been built up so much and was so well acted and emotional that I don't see him wanting to try it again.

Thanks, I'm trying to see this from a business perspective as well as the creative side. Jensen and Jared constantly say they want to do more Supernatural in the future. I don't think they will send Dean back to Heaven in 13 because all of the heavy lifting to explain why Dean is alive has already been done. He is resurrected in the 70's so he has to die again to go back to heaven. If they ever get the go ahead for a movie or continuation, all they have to do is explain the time travel that gets Sam and Dean back together. The second element is how divisive the Series Finale was. One of the main issues was how Dean went out. That gets fixed if the vampires are no longer Deans last hunt. If you look at Jensen's convention appearances and interviews, he has really warmed to the series finale over the past two years. He knows many fans won't watch the finale and he addressed that last con, telling a fan at a panel that people who don't watch the finale are robbing themselves of a great ending. Now I think that means that though it was a great finale for Supernatural it was not the finale for Dean Winchester. Jensen seems to want to make the finale better for as many people as possible. Misha said he was going to be on The Winchesters. So, I believe Dean will tell Castiel he loves him (the same way he loves Sam, John and Mary though the Destiels won't see it that way) but it will be in a non-romantic way. Dean will see Creation being destroyed as he is sent back to the 70's. When the Akrida are defeated, Creation is restored and Castiel appears. He does a mind wipe that only applies to Mary, John, Samuel and maybe Millie. That leads into the season 4 episode. Castiel goes back to heaven and Dean stays to keep hunting with Carlos, Lata and Ada out of the MoL base. When Dean eventually dies, he continues his ride in heaven to the bridge. Twitter would freak and people at the conventions would gush over it for years.