wanderwoman

So, she has her hearing aids in and, so far,...she's not very happy about them. They're molded perfectly to her ears and tech said they're perfect, but she's not liking them. I don't know what I was expecting. Truth is, after watching videos of kids getting their devices turned on, I forgot that she's still such a young infant. They turned them on and did a test with some tones and she DID react, but it was an annoyed reaction. She had what could pass for a grin when daddy was buckling her in her car seat, but the noise from the car seemed to make her very pissed off. The audiologist had said we might need to adjust the volume for really loud noises but I didn't think road noise would freak her out. Hubby accidentally hit the rumble strip that makes the "wake up!"noise for truckers and she lost it. I had never thought about how jarring those noises are. Once we got home, we walked down to the lake with her in the backpack. She is fascinated with leaves and light playing off of leaves so we it would calm her down. In any case, a woodpecker started working over a tree pretty close by and she TURNED her head that direction. We both started tearing up. it's been a big day.

Please don't misunderstand me- I don't think my scenario/episode is likely to happen or even the best way. I was just responding to those who ask what *I* need to think continuing the show is reasonable. I think they should eat crow, find real jobs, and go to counselling while never filming another episode. But, I would watch show I outlined above as a swan song. Very, very early on, I shared a similar disgust for that scene in particular. How contrived can you get when you approach a repeat child molester with a book about female anatomy an hour before the wedding?

This video gives a demonstration on how aids and implants translate sound.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2636415/What-deaf-hear-Audio-file-reveals-s-like-listen-world-using-cochlear-implant.html The hearing aid she gets today will take her from the hearing you would equate to listening to a conversation while " sitting on the bottom of a pool with ear plugs in" to sitting in a bathtub with your ears slightly submerged". In other words, she still won't hear details and certain consonants, but she will be able to hear tones, most vowel sounds, and loud environmental noise. Like, now if we drop firewood on the hearth, she can be two feet away and won't startle. If a dog barks or thunder rolls, she has zero reaction while most of us would flinch or turn our heads to inspect the situation. My understanding is the aid will allow her to experience some of those noises and help train her brain to distinguish between noise and speech when she gets the implant.

I know it's frowned upon to show someone undergoing mental health care on television; but, there's a simple way to keep this show going it TLC decides it is worth it. And, I believe people would not only watch it, but learn something and do society a big favor. Most of the vitriol surrounding this scandal was/is about: A) how this was handled by Jim Bob and Michelle B) concern for the victims C) concerns about recidivism in Josh D) the glossy treatment of the IBLP "advice" I think TLC should do a VSE and here is what I'd want to see, in order. 1) A segment with Jim Bob and Michelle giving us the 411 on what really happened. They don't have to name victims. I want to know the timing and their thoughts on this"season". Why they did the show claiming transparency if life and faith knowing they were avoiding an elephant? How are they preventing this from recurring? 2) A talking head with just Josh detailing how he got to the point of molesting young girls and some insight into why he went there. 3) I want to see Josh attend a survivors group meeting - because, he and his family need to understand, from a non-religious perspective, how victims feel and the spectrum of emotions and variety of coping mechanisns victims employ to survive. 4) I want the victims evaluated by an unaffiliated, renowned therapist who can privately hear then out. I don't want their faces shown and I would hope it wouldn't be filmed, but I'd like the therapist to assess them. 5) I would like TLC to show us appropriate family therapy and see the middles and littles be given age appropriate information about their rights to their body and "good toycb, bad touch". Mainly, too, I want a licensed therapist or officer to break them into gender groups and educate them on (or undo) the how to report molestation and explain that the victim is never at fault. 5) Using voice disguising and identity protecting technology, allow the victims a chance ti, if they want, confront Josh in the presence of a neutral party with experience in the area. 6) I want to see Josh and Anna obtain therapy and see Josh in a recognized program for sexual offenders. Yes, be was a minor, but hard labor isn't treatment and his parents failed him in getting him appropriate care. 7) An interview with Jim Bob and Michelle that confront them, calmly and logically, with the flaws in their curriculum's "workbook". TLC has a chance to make a reality show that deals with a real family in crisis. For me, this episode would be the only way back.

This story is heartbreaking. It's also heartbreakingly common. :( At our cochlear friendly group, we've heard multiple stories along the same line. I'd like to think I would've been observant and proactive enough to have seen Maisie's hearing loss had it occurred outside the hospital, but you just never know. Hugs.I will be on and off today. We're seeing the audiologist to fit Maisie's hearing aids today. Step 1 on what will be a long journey.

It's funny because some people remark about how she does look preemie and then others can't see it at all. I think if you don't know she's 4 months, she seems normal. :) But, thank you, we think she's just right. I was looking at her first user pic that I had put on here and it's like night and day. She is growing fast.

From what little we can reduce, and- again- I will defer to Jellybeans' expertise- most kids get one hearing test right before they leave the hospital and it's not the gold standard people imagine it to be. There are some kids who pass that test and six months later have significant loss. As a result, most people don't know there's a problem until their child has fallen way behind on the language spectrum. It doesn't surprise me that there are toddlers who have hearing loss that aren't being aggressively managed. But, it does make me very sad. Since the moment we were told, the hardest part has been having patience over the process. DH and I are more than a little "take charge". Having something so out of our control has been an interesting journey. Lol. Our audiologist laughs at DH every time he records our appointments AND takes notes. They're going to start groaning when they see us.

I have a DH approved user pic. Lol. He doesn't understand why I wanted her as my user pic, but I managed to convince him this place was harmless. :) I grabbed this pic after her bath, but before the cannula tape went on. Her hair is getting really fuzzy.

From the same book: "the gravity of the sin isn't in the act, it's in the secret" -Michelle She was talking about holding yourself to sexual and moral purity standards!! !! Allow me to subtext what she was saying, now that we know exactly what sort of shit was going on in that house. "Because my son told us he was struggling with impure thoughts and told us he was molesting our daughters and young children, he's not as guilty as those random strangers that keep it a secret." What?!? But, let's flip that... in a certain light, she's redirecting the CRIME and sin of molestation to the victim because she argues that not telling someone when you've been wronged is tantamount to allowing it to happen to some else. This logic is completely really ridiculous. The Duggar family and other IBLP families, are actually advocating the following: 1. Dressing immodestly can entice men into physical actions. 2. Being sexually abused might be God's way of helping you grow spiritually. 3. Not confessing that you've been abused, makes you complicit in the sin and might jeopardize other people who you have just failed. 4. As long as the abuser admits and confesses the sin, he can be washed clean by the blood of Jesus (is it just me or didn't Michelle make the kids sing multiple songs about redemption through the blood?" 5. Once your abuser has confessed, you MUST forgive him or risk your soul and relationship with God. That is so messed up. How on earth can you expect a victimised child to give a hug to the person who just sexually molested her? Just so no one accuses me of putting words in the Duggars' mouths, here are their words... Page 101- "We believe that a man's physical drive are excited by what he sees and it is DEFRAUDING (their emphasis) for a woman to wear clothing that accents her body...The Bible tells us not to be a stumbling block." Michelle states, in the 20 and Counting book on page 176, "...all of our children have been in the apologizer's shoes at one time...it is common then for the VICTIM to hug and encourage the brother or sister, accepting the apology; IF THEY DO NOT HUG on their own, we ask them to do so." On page 179, Michelle says, "Jesus said we need to do something good for the person who has been mean to us...we tell them to invest in their adversary's life." On page 235, Jim Bob says, "children frequently come to us to talk....this includes feelings and thoughts of a sensual nature...we tell our kids, "The power of the sin is in the secrecy." Page 268- "Our children's safety and well-being are top priorities for us. In closing, for those who claim the Duggars don't deserve criticism, let's remember their own words: (p. 112) "We know HE wanted us to stand for truth and we knew that that would not be well received by everyone....when we are targeted for criticism or condescension, we remember Jesus' words from the Sermon on the Mount. He said we should feel blessed when "people say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake...bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despise you."

From what I've been able to piece together, the mom's conference at Big Sandy, and the ATI recommended curriculum supplements, encourage women to speak "softly and reverently". Michelle has stated publicly that she "purposed to control her volume and tone" to a whisper because she read that it will encourage her children to "really listen to her instructions". Michelle has said that, in the early years, she had a temper and lowering her voice and tenor was a way of displaying controlled behavior. She wanted to "be an example". In addition, the two marriage books and seminar materials from IBLP and other patriarchal sources instruct wives and mothers to "model submission to God's design for men and women" by never publicly disagreeing with her husband. Looking at him is "common courtesy and reflects genuine interest in what he has to say". As a result, women in these circles sound like heavily medicated cartoon princesses. If you can get your hands on a copy of "Created To Be His Helpmeet", by Debbie Pearl, you, too, can be an obedient wife. Lol. I wasn't around in the early days of Duggars snark: however, I think Jinger appeared to be the most likely to rebel back in the early days. She displayed a spunk and attitude that caught everyone's attention. She was a little like Johannah. People started joking about starting a campaign to free Jinger. Now, it's an identifier for Duggar skeptics and snarkers. Obviously, no one knows for sure. I believe the responsibilities will shift to Joy and then Johannah. Joy is 17 now and Johannah will be 10 in October. By 10, Jana was cooking, cleaning, and changing diapers for her buddies. If the show ends and the girl's from Joy up leave, then I think we'll see a dramatic change in the management of their home. Michelle will actually have to be a mother and teacher and stop depending on the kindness of others. My fear, if the show ends, is that Michelle will lean more heavily on grandma and any Duggars daughter nearby to combine generations into a centralized homeschool- thereby allowing Michelle to continue her dereliction of duty.

Dr.Drew is having an hour episode on this.

With all due respect, I think we all have to decide, individually, where we fall on this issue. I'm not sure how much if this forum you've read since Friday (the volume is overwhelming): but, I think you will find that many of us are sympathetic to Josh's childhood and minor status. Speaking only for myself, what Josh did as a minor, as awful as it was, isn't the reason why I'm angry and want TLC to stop the show. Knowing what we know now, TLC, Michelle and Jim Bob sought out publicity and created an empire based on a wholesome, scandal free image KNOWING that they had a very real, criminal problem on their hands. They've built an empire by constantly devaluing the rights and privacy of their children. They agreed to exchange their privacy for celebrity and money. What John sho did was undeniably wrong. What his parents did (waiting to disclose it and failing to protect ALL of their kids) is the bigger issue. It was beyond naive for then to think three months of construction work would fix the problem. Taking this to church elders (which, at that time, consisted exclusively of Jim Bob and a few friends- none had degrees in psychology or social work) means nothing. Going to the officer you are friendly with (and who turned out to be in to kiddy porn) isn't obtaining adequate care. Telling a five year old girl that she had the power to defraud anyone is downright disgusting. Duggars supporters seem to be missing the fact that Jim Bob did NOT report this to the police or family services when it happened. As a political family, they had to know that waiting for the sixth offense to take your kid for a chat with a cop isn't adequate. That cop was protecting Josh, not the girls. Signing up to do a series was the last thing this family needed or needs.

There have been multiple examples of child sexual abuse that the media has publicised: Elizabeth Smart, Jon Benet Ramsay, and the young lady kept for thirteen years in a backyard tent come to mind. The Duggars had no problem with using the media to show and violate. the medical privacy of the minors Josie, Jana, Jill, Anna, Orchestra Pit Duggars (which kid was that), or the elderly J.R. Duggars without consent from the minor or the infirm? All of those examples are examples of the media and production team undermining the rights to privacy... The media didn't molest the minors and, in truth, didn't name any names of the minors involved- Josh, included. The media reported on a redacted police report that revealed a poorly executed attempt to cover up a crime. If you can film the funeral of a stillborn or the pain of a preemie under the guise of educating the public and shining a light on it, then you can't use the "but, but, they are suffering children" excuse. The Duggars happily signed away their daughters' dignity when they profited and many of us were outraged.

I think Josh is probably going through hell and I take no joy in knowing that. I've felt that panic when a choice you made impacts your life so gravely and decidedly. Once again, I keep going back to his parents. What Josh did was unequivocally wrong and his victims were/are deserving of compassion, help, and justice. But, Josh was also deserving of real help and accountability. His parents made choices that took this from a devastating family issue to a public debate and shaming. They pushed their family into the spot light without considering the impact that fame would have if these things were revealed. They failed all of their children. Josh was a teenager - then he grew up and literally took a position on a high horse without considering how far he had to fall.

I kept going back to thus, too. If this is what he was referring to, I have way more respect for the man. I also think I can understand why Jessa wanted to keep "the kiss" private. She took control over her sexuality and access to that moment. Good for her.

Aww. Thank you for keeping her in your prayers and thoughts. Yes! We are learning ASL. I knew some from a class in college and a now passed family member, but we needed an intensive crash course. Signing is important, even if the hearing loss is minimal because, as we understand it, there will be times she will need secondary means of communication. For one, the cochlear isn't good at sounds in the distance and loud noises can cause discomfort. If she can see us, we can still sign. There's also no guarantee her experience will be flawless. Implants have their own problems like any device so sign language is your fall back. This article says it better than I can. :) https://www.gallaudet.edu/clerc_center/information_and_resources/cochlear_implant_education_center/resources/clerc_center_articles_and_publications_on_cochlear_implants_/why_include_sign_language.html

Precisely. Maisie has some ability to hear certain frequencies. I've misunderstood what deafness is until recently. Most "deaf" people hear some sounds. There are people who are profoundly deaf, but that's not what we are dealing with. Since she was premature and had complications, they want to give her a few more weeks to put on weight and heal her lungs before surgery. The cochlear implant requires general anesthesia. Until then, she will have a hearing aid that, once she's got the implant, she can still use- it's a hybrid system that works well for small children. Unless I'm mistaken, she will use hearing aids and special amplification devices in addition to the cochlear. Jelly can probably explain better than I can since I'm new to the process.

The anti-cochlear group is almost entirely made up of deaf adults and seniors. There's one young lady in her college years but she was born deaf to deaf parents. She was the most reasonable of the group and frequently tried to help me understand the position they take. Their official position is that "deaf culture" and ASL are the same as "being Jewish and speaking Yiddish fluently" (that's an actual quote they used). Their fear is that cochlear will lead to no one being able or wanting to sign. They also believe that deafness isn't a disability in the sense that you and I might. Ironically, when I asked if they, as a group, would then support the denial of special accommodation status, they said that hearing loss was a disability. If I focus on my compassionate appraisal of their point of view, I think most of the elderly members were sent away to deaf schools and met their spouses at deaf schools or conventions. For them, I think they fear the loss of community. As someone new to the community, I don't have that history to protect. I will obviously teach Maisie about Helen Keller, other prominent people with hearing loss, and we will use ASL because a cochlear doesn't make you hear perfectly. But, I'm not going to keep my daughter deaf to honor their life. They dissuade because they say God makes you deaf and there's nothing wrong with being deaf. It's maddening. I had no idea there would be people against giving someone hearing. I completely agree with the idea that it seems ludicrous. I think you can be deaf, get a cochlear, and still respect people who don't. I hope Maisie can take what's best from both worlds. To be fair, one of their objections is that the surgery is elected and it can be very painful. They don't see the point of putting a child through the ordeal for an imperfect result. They equate cochlears with circumcision and tell you to wait until the child can decide. I don't want my child to be in pain, either, but waiting until she's old enough to decide means losing precious language acquisition and adjustment time. I'm sorry I'm going on and on. We came to the conclusion that we accept our child's disability and we also accept that we have access to technology to mitigate that limitation. Luckily, we don't have to go back to that group again.

I think Michelle was hyper-aware of her body image and retelling the bikini story is her way of reminding everyone that she had a desirable physique before having kids. We know she had food issues, too. I think she misses her old body. I completely agree with those who think the "modest modern" approach was solely due to their exposure and income (and freebies). It's likely, too, that the crimper, prairie look was due to all of the girl's being younger than 13 on the first special. They were little girls who idolized the wardrobe in Little House. I don't care who you are- going to New York for the first time and seeing how ridiculously old timey your clothes look has to leave an impact. Before the show, the only people they socialized with were also wearing trumpets, so that was their normal. I've noticed that even the little ones are getting the newest Gymboree clothes. I think they've got a deal with the company. If Torrid offered Jim Bob free clothes for the girl's, he would take them and make the girls wear something underneath. Lol. Maisie News: Ear molds were made and she will have her temporary devices by Friday. We will do the cochlear as soon as we get the all clear from her neonatologist and respiratory. They want her to weigh at least twelve pounds. During testing, they approximated her hearing for us, so we knew what her world sounds like now. It was very unsettling. It reminded me of what you hear when you're trying to talk to someone under water, but fainter. If I had doubts about the cochlear before, they're gone now. We had a last meeting with the anti-cochlear group and I don't think I made friends. They tell you about the failures and the deaf culture and treat you like you're committing an act of genocide by implanting your child. One lady accused us of "not accepting her (Maisie's) deafness". DH walked out because he was angry. Obviously, we will have to use sign language to give her her best chance, but I don't understand the argument that we should accept her disability by celebrating it. If our child was diabetic, we would treat it. How is this different? Hubby has been working his tail off this weekend. Part of the job. But, that means Maisie, the therapist, and I have been on our own. We went down to the valley to get the mail and get a few pics of Maisie in the meadow. It was her first professional pictures! Hopefully, DH will let me use one as my user pic. Keep fingers crossed. :)

I think Anna knew. I think she was young and overly trusting and figured that God changed his heart because her dad said Josh was a good guy. I think we need to remember that Anna trusted her dad to say yes or no to a courtship with Josh. Her dad's mission in life was to change convicts' hearts to God. Josh might have been an example for him.

The more I've thought about it, the more I think they owe people a public explanation. So, while I completely support the girls and don't want them reliving it on camera for our benefit, here's what I think should happen. I think the series is done. It was heading to an inevitable end anyway and the show was repetitive. The younger kids deserve a private childhood and education they cannot get so long as this show, and the tours, continue. But, I do feel that we, the public, are owed an explanation and an apology from TLC and Jim Bob and Michelle,...and Josh. They subjected us to a miscarriage, Josie's painful beginnings, and several funerals under the guise that they were an open book and wanted to show people how God provides and maintains them, even at the worst of times. So, film an episode where they tel us how they feel they made the right choices by filming this show, knowing that the publicity meant exposure for Josh and this victims. I want them to explain how they envisioned this and want to know how they could continue popping out kids and holding themselves up as role models with this in their closet? I want to know why and how they reconcile their statements about purity when they knew they were, simultaneously, shaming their daughters by insisting that their modesty was protection? How could Michelle Falk about giving your partner a damaged bike when she knew her skn, using the analogy, wreck the girl's bikes? How can you say you're able to effectively manage your family when your children were being sexually abused right in front of you. The incident of the book reading and laundry room incident tells me that Josh wasn't even concerned with doing this in a secretive manner. Where the fuck were Michelle and Jim Bob? How, unless they were utterly ignorant, could they think sending a kid to do physical labor would cure him? I think they need to biblically address these issues and donate their income to a sexual abuse charity. You don't even need to show the children. But, they can't have fame without accountability and they should've never made themselves public figures with something this big in the picture.

I found 14 Kids and Counting, the intro documentary for the Duggars, online. I have to say, watching it again with what we know happened is sad. You can't look at Joy and the other girls without cringing. Especially, take note of the sleeping arrangements and Josh's body language. Also, it's interesting to note that, in this episode, shot during the issues with Josh, Josh has no female buddies and when he gets in the van, he sits next to Jessa and sIhe literally flinches before pulling her feet up onto the seat and tucking her dress, very purposefully, in a manner to cover any skin from showing on her legs.

I agree. But, how could it not be? We know TLC has been springing Fri special, private outings for birthdays. In the pastor, they've rented out skating rinks, zoos, and rock climbing places, to name a few. It would've been interesting to see how his birthday was celebrated. I think the days of huge parties and excursions are over with. He would've had to notice that the cameras and extraneous, filming "uncles" aren't there. Someone on another forum said that a few members of the crew were seen flying out of Little Rock yesterday. I wonder how that's going to effect the crew members who moved to the area? Mr. Jim gave up time with his girls (he has two) to follow around this dog and pony show. I'm hoping the production company helps the crew transition.

I actually believe there are important differences between the HBB scandal and this scandal. June is an adult who, knowing the man had been CONVICTED, of sexually abusing her daughter, decided to rekindle a relationship with the man her daughter was still justifiably scared of. The offender was an adult praying on a child and June simply didn't give a shit about Pumpkins feelings and dismissed them as "drama". Josh was a teenager. His parents tried (even if we did disagree with their methods) to intervene. June did nothing. She didn't even believe her daughter when she accused the guy. Jim Bob and Michelle, at least, as far as we know, believed their daughters. I think both families are dysfunctional. But, I think June threatening to sue for her show being cancelled, instead of showing compassion for the Duggars girls, is pretty audacious. She doesn't care about the kids: she's not once mentioned that she was sorry for her part in the abuse. Pumpkin claims June was mad at her for telling on the guy. June let an adult hurt her child and then welcomed the convicted, ADULT, non-family offender back in her home with her other kids. Jim Bob and Michelle were dealing with Josg- their child. They had to choose between their children and I believe they chose poorly. June was choosing between a boyfriend and her child and she chose the boyfriend.

I mentioned this in the Jim Boob and Mullet thread, but the more I think about it, the more I feel compelled to follow through. Someone suggested stalking the Duggars. I'm not on board with that. I do think the Duggars missed another opportunity to use their fame to shine the light on a very real, sad problem. Just as they missed the boat on showing the realities of patriarchal fundamentalism, prematurity, the tole cancer can take on a family, immunizations, and miscarriage. They've missed the opportunity to discuss molestation and sexual abuse. Instead, they took on abortion. This latest scandal doesn't help the perception that they care more about embryos and other people's uteri than they do about protecting those "precious blessings" after they leave the womb. Let's be the "generation that stops molestation" and the generation who deals with it and shines the light on the plight of the victim. Let's be the generation to have real conversations with our children and friends about molestation. Instead of stalking the Duggars and railing against Josh, let's, for one minute, light a candle or start a discussion about how to help the victims of sexual abuse. At 5:19pm Pacific Time (5 for the victims, 19 for obvious reasons), I will be putting a candle in my front window to show support for the Duggar girls. I can't be in Arkansas, but if I was, I'd stand in front of the gate with my candle. I will also be making a donation to Stop It Now (stopitnow.org). I'd be honored if anyone wanted to join me.