[Season 8 Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I actually believe the producers are asking them to do this.  If you'll notice, ALL of the married and/or engaged couples touch each other when doing the THs.  They also gaze lovingly at the one who is talking.  I think it's all purposeful and the producers want to make it appear that the Bates live in an idyllic world of rainbows and unicorns- a world completely opposite of the Duggars, who rarely show any affection except the BIG KISS at the weddings.  

Not sure if it is producer driven or a combo of their religion and their southern heritage. They seem a little too comfortable with it for it to be completely directed. I agree that it is probably encouraged for them to be affectionate and comfortable on the couch. You'll notice that when they mix it up with who is on the couch that there is less of a chemistry. It'll be tough on poor Katie who has always had Josie as an interview partner. I've noticed they have switched around Carlin for her interviews and are letting her do more alone since Tori got married. Maybe because she tends to overtalk everyone else. 

The Duggars are very anti-touch. It's been drilled into them so much that the adult children now seem unsure what to do with a significant other. It's practically a miracle some of them manage to get pregnant. Even the children are not really affectionate. It's strange how removed they all are about things and how unfamiliar they are with each other even personality wise. And don't get me started on side hugs. 

With the Bates family you see a lot more affection. They sit close. You'll see them swatting at each other, hugging, and clamoring to get near one another in greeting. They don't look shocked when Gil or Kelly hug them compared to the younger Duggars and their reaction to Michelle. One of the older children is always holding a younger child (sibling, niece, or nephew) on their hip or on their laps. Even Michaela, who is arguably the most indoctrinated and stiffest of the bunch, hugged Brandon like she was going to jump him during their courtship. I still remember her asinine comment about hugging being okay but they were waiting for engagement to hold hands. WTH? How is that even logical in their screwed up view? 

When Gil and Kelly are featured at IBLP events and the like, they are normally in the same position where he is speaking and she's holding his arm. While it is annoying, she doesn't stare at him quite the same way as Michelle with the dead behind the eyes looks of adoration and baby whisper voice. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

32 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

I can't tell the brothers-in-law (correct grammar?) apart.  There was a commercial for Josie's wedding and I thought the groom-to-be was who we were watching on the episode with Carlin last night. 

I wonder what would happen if Kelly Jo was not touching Gil while doing their talking heads on the couch.

Seriously...they do seem to have a type. 

 

And, yes, I am beginning to wonder if Kelly Jo and Gil could get through an entire interview without her clinging to him. We know where her daughters get it from now. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

I can appreciate that Carlin is not as sweet and demure as she was probably raised to be all her life. Good for her. That said, the girl has never met a camera she didn't like. She always knows where it is and is playing to it. At least she is not as rude as Tori can be, but dang if her voice doesn't get annoying.

There's just a fake sincerity to her words that doesn't sit well with me. She inserts herself as the center of attention in every scenario. When Michaela and others have tried on wedding dresses, she jumps up to take mirror selfies with them (complete with duck lips and poses). When Zach graduated from the academy, she stepped in front of everyone to hug him and tell him how proud she was of him angeled perfectly for the camera. She sobbed harder than Callie at Michaela's wedding. In the first episode, she stopped Erin while shopping for Whitney's baby shower to tell Erin how proud she was of how she was about handling at the miscarriages. There was Erin counting out items to make sure they had enough and Carlin was enthusing on overload about how brave Erin is for everything. 

Maybe she really is just enthusiastic and bubbly, but there's a limit to that kind of thing seeming real. Maybe it's the way she wipes at imaginary tears or the way she dominates any conversation. Maybe it is the constant hair flipping that seems more Kardashian than Bates. Or maybe it is her unending look of surprise that would make a normal person's jaw hurt with the face she makes. Whatever it is, Carlin, Tori, and Nathan are my fast forward material. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

9 hours ago, 65mickey said:

As a public service employee Zach most likely has very good health insurance for a small premium. He probably has a pension plan and pays very little for that. I imagine life insurance through his job also.  Those are the benefits of working for the government, small salary but good benefits. Being a retired state employee I also had and continue to have these benefits. He would be smart to keep that job. Reality shows are very cheap to produce. One of the housewives explained that production almost pays for trips that are part of the script. Every time they go into a store and the name is featured that's free advertisement.  The Bates don't take extravagant trips and always they feature restaurants, stores and these place get free advertisement in exchange for free or reduced prices for goods and or services. Also they do receive money for participating in the show. Certainly not as much  as one of the housewives but they aren't doing this for nothing.  I would bet that the dumb vow renewal was paid for in large part by production. 

Tennessee like a lot of states has a special down payment program for those in law enforcement that he might have gotten. When I lived in TN it was basically $25,000. If you sold the house and moved during the first five years, you had to pay a portion back. 

I have family in Anderson County (Clinton mostly). Last I had checked in Anderson County, deputies start at $39,000 until after they graduate/complete the academy. They then bump up $3,000 to $5,000 with pretty consistent increases in pay. The pension plan is pretty nice compared to some places, as is the health plan that only runs about $25 for an employee per pay period (2X per month) for a family. In network, it pays 90%. Plus they use Dr. Vick, who is clearly cutting the family a deal with as much as he appears on the show. Zach would have life insurance of at least 3X his salary with more if he were to die in the line of duty. He could pay for more than that. He also apparently does some odd jobs of construction and tree work when needed, earning extra money. My thoughts are that he and Whitney are doing pretty well financially, especially with any money they get off the show. 

I honestly don't know how Erin and Chad are making ends meet. And while I'm sure Erin will have baby fever again soon, I'm not sure how they would fit any more in that tiny house. I'm guessing that an upcoming storyline in the next season or two will be them building a house (getting discounts on materials) on a piece of land rather than buying a house. That way Erin can be shown decorating and Chad can build things. We've had a few episodes where they have looked (outside) at fixer uppers, so they might do that. I just see UP deciding to dedicate an episode or two to them expanding by building. Maybe next time Erin's pregnant? If they could finish it and move in, that would be helpful for UP and its credibility. They lost some with the Carpenters for Christ and the fact that they have yet to show the church as finished. Aren't they still meeting at a funeral home or the Holiday Inn?

Interestingly, I think only Michaela and Alyssa have ever complained or made mention of not having much money. Michaela mentioned it with regard to trying to afford testing for fertility issues and Alyssa with regard to people assuming they had money because of John's father. I think it is interesting that the two daughters who are farthest away are the two who have made these comments. Perhaps they don't get as much (would be fair) as the others since they don't film as often. 
 

[Season 8 Discussion]

9 hours ago, sATL said:

Also - with these two, we are seeing the struggle (esp. Lawson) of trying/hoping/praying to become a successful artist, when its more common to see artists who have "made it".  Or are very close to doing so.

However - Erin and Lawson seem to be happy in the struggle and don't have the fever/hunger to take their craft to the next level. I think if Gil would cutoff Lawson completely - and let him join the rest of the new singing/songwriting artists hitting the pavement in Nashville, he would get a clue. I just find it hard to believe that no one in Nashville has told him that if he's not going to take serious singing lessons - he either need to switch to writing or perhaps backing up someone. He's getting a little up in age to be breaking into a singing artist. I wonder if the Univ of TN (or anyone else) has asked him back  to sing the national anthem ( link ) - being asked to come back to repeat - means they audience wants to hear/see the artist.

I doubt Erin has aspirations for anything more than simply being able to say she has recorded at this point. Unlike Lawson, she is not out there really trying to hit the pavement and be seen. She's an example of this family's lifestyle and priorities. As a young woman, she was more of a go getter about music. When we saw her on other shows and in news specials, she was all about her music and very proud of herself for going to Crown and studying. Her first CD was a very big deal for her. Unlike many of her sisters, we didn't see her being a big part of the group efforts of raising the younger siblings, cooking, etc. Her main chore was teaching piano lessons to the younger set. But boom! She got married and became Susie Homemaker to the nth degree. She could suddenly cook. She is all about wanting babies. She decorates and does crafty things. She tries to be romantic. Nothing is wrong with change per se. It's just a dramatic transformation and interesting.

Tori may turn out similarly. She was vehemently opposed to a lot of the homemaker lessons, but now is somewhat sliding into those. It hasn't been that dramatic of a transformation yet, but we'll see. Carlin also seemed to have some musical aspirations herself. I'm not convinced that it was actually music she loves or if it is the attention she gets from being front and center.  

I might be wrong, but I think part of Lawson's aversion to doing things the traditional way and following the advice of others more knowledgeable stems from his upbringing. Gil and Kelly didn't really and don't really raise their children to follow the pack on anything except church. There is almost an arrogance about it at times that they attribute to their faith. In the family, the children, but most especially the boys, are raised with the idea that they are all especially talented and gifted. Yes, you should encourage your children, but Gil and Kelly don't seem to discourage them either. There should be a balance. Erin was raised being told she was naturally talented to the point that she should pass that on to others even before learning properly herself. Michaela was pegged early on as a mothering type. The biggest examples of this seem to be Trace. Trace wanted to be on the basketball team. Rather than encourage him to work with a local coach or attend camps growing up, he was encouraged to go for the team with no real experience or knowledge. The most we saw was him practicing a pick up game with some of the guys on the team )_(producer driven). Gil was supposedly this big jock. Why didn't he help or find someone who could help? The same with the Dixie Stampede. Trace tried to learn from clearly producer plants of trick riders on a single day. So one could wonder if his parents were encouraging him and letting him believe in abilities he did not have or were they letting him fail as a lesson. Maybe Gil and Kelly were helping behind the scenes, but I somehow doubt it. 

Given the sheltered nature of their lives earlier (pre-show), I'm not sure that any of the adults or children in the family have a very good gauge on who they really are and how that fits into the rest of the world. That consciousness is hard for most people, but especially when you are raised in an environment where everyone is very much the same. Add in that families involved in groups like the IBLP emphasize that God makes no mistakes and everything about you is by God's design...it's hard to face that you might not be good at something or lack something you were raised to think was important. 

It could be that this pushing forward on his own and ignoring the blatant hints out there is Lawson's way of being that independent worker that IBLP emphasizes. It's not quite the same since the idea of such a career working for yourself is twofold in that you won't be tempted by an ungodly boss to do something wrong and that whatever money you make is a direct result of your work and can go to the church not to your boss's pockets. But this could be his internal compromise and rationalization of doing things his way so as not to fall into some ungodly trap. It also may be that he has heard from his family, their church friends, etc. so much that he is talented and going to be the next big thing that he doesn't hear any criticism. It's easier to believe the good things he hears from people he loves, likes, and trusts, than hear that he might not be good enough, talented enough, etc. 

I think that Lawson has been encouraged to use the show as a vehicle for his musical aspirations. The name dropping is clearly on the same level as product placement. He has gotten some local gigs from being able to say he is on a television show. Others he has gotten through family connections. While Zach was involved with the Anderson County Commission, Lawson appeared more than a few times at county celebrations and events. I don't know how often that happens now. While UT Knoxville Football will recruit well known singers for the anthem, basketball and baseball is not quite as prestigious just based on the number of games being more. Alumni take precedence, but once you are on the list it is not that hard to get to come back for a repeat performance. When I worked for my university's sports department, we sometimes had to call past singers and beg them to come back that night because we didn't have someone lined up. Not that it isn't an honor, but we were more worried about other aspects. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

48 minutes ago, floridamom said:

So, Erin and Lawson are peddling their own bicycles uphill with their respective 'music careers'. Lucky for Erin, she's married and has a husband to do the bill paying for her. Lawson has no such husband that I'm aware of.

Someone may know something I don't. But if you go to Lawson's website, it's done by the same person who does the family one. There is no mention of a recording label at all. There's not a label out there that would allow an artist they had on contract to do a website, sell albums, etc. without mentioning the label by name and logo many times. He's worked with some good producers, but none of them really get mentioned either. They are the ones who bring in other singers and personalities to appear on screen or record with him. It's their connections that keep him working. 

Typically, someone in his position of wanting to record, would work in Nashville, play open mic nights, do talent competitions (local not national stuff), and try to be seen. He'd spend his spare money on recording time and try to get those songs heard by label execs. He'd post videos of himself singing. He'd do what he does with singing the anthem at games, performing at community events, etc. to be seen by these people. He'd write songs until he couldn't write anymore and try to get labels to hear those so they would buy them for other artists. 

With Erin it is a little harder. I don't know that there are that many labels itching for a piano player who does instrumentals. Most labels now want people who can sing and play, have stage presence, etc. Sure there are people who get signed based on looks, but I'm guessing Erin's not wanting to be an artist like that who gets autotuned and dresses scantily. With her, I think she is fine with her little vanity projects of CDs that she can sell at church events and IBLP type conferences. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

1 hour ago, Misslindsey said:

 

Hasn't Erin made a couple albums? I wonder how well she does selling them.

 

 

Erin pays for the studio time and even the production of her CDs. They are primarily only sold through the family's website and at special events the family will appear at for signings, etc. Her albums are considered independents. As of the last time I looked, don't have a distribution deal.  One can find them on Amazon through third-party sellers. They are essentially vanity projects for her. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's not a bold career move either.

As far as I know, Lawson's in the same boat. As a singer and someone on a reality show, he's been offered opportunities to work with some good producers. But he's the one having to do the heavy lifting for marketing, publicity, and touring. The music videos are essentially sales tools (same as with signed artists).

He doesn't have a great voice or a stage presence for the career he wants. He would be better off writing and selling songs to bigger artists or even getting into music from the perspective of wedding performances or church events. That would be lucrative for him if he paired up with a sibling or two.

Both of them have mentioned Entertainment One or E-one, but neither are listed among their artists. E-one used to be Koch Entertainment. With the exception of a few clients the company got during mergers and acquisitions, most people who record or perform on that label are pay to play. In other words, you pay a fee and you get to record in a real studio with whoever you can convince to come in with you. What you leave with is it. There's no machine behind it trying to get you gigs on late night television or talking to distribution companies to carry your products. 

I'm not knocking people who do that. As a writer, I have looked into self-publishing or sticking it out for traditional. There are benefits and challenges in both. I would love to give up my responsibilities and just focus on writing, but life doesn't allow that for me at this point. Lawson not really going to have that sort of time to do his singing and performing if he were to get married. It's not like his wife would be working. So I guess it makes sense for him to live at home (rent free) and play along with the show to get the time and resources to "live his dream."

[Season 8 Discussion]

The whole shower thing feels like a rerun.

1. Zach and Whitney baby shower - the couple and much of the family was late. They blamed it on Trace's accident, but the timing was suspect on that. Zach and Whitney should have already been there to greet guests and not just on the road at that time.

2. Bobby and Tori wedding shower - the couple was late and the episode was even titled something like can you have a wedding shower without the bride and groom. Then Tori acted like she didn't want to be there and had a hard time even saying thank you.

3. Josie's bridal shower - Again, the bride was late and the family was still setting up and decorating as guests were arriving. 

The only one I can remember being somewhat organized and nice was the baby shower for Erin when she was pregnant with Carson. That one was planned by her friend and former classmate. It wasn't my style, but it was at least on time and flowed. 

Maybe I'm biased, but I prefer the drop in style of shower without all the games and whatever. We had one for a couple (friends of mine) that we hosted at the house they just bought and were moving into after the wedding. People could come by any time between 1 and 5, talk with the couple, see the new house, drop off a present (not required), signed a book of advice for the couple, brought a favorite recipe, and noshed on finger foods since it was between meals. There was no big opening of the gifts, as people dropped in at different times and the couple opened their gifts in front of the people who gave it rather than everyone. It made it more personal and the couple could talk to the person (other couple) about the item rather than generic thank yous.

Don't get me started on the tea bag game thing. It was stupid to think people wouldn't cheat. Something like that would work better as an ice breaker type thing if you had a bunch of strangers coming. Everyone gets a tea bag and you have to find the person or people who have the same one to sit with at first. We did something similar only it was flowers. You got a rose, daisy, tulip, etc. Some people hate things like that, but these girls don't seem to think it is a shower without games. 

There are also places (even in Anderson County, Tennessee) that offer tea parties for adults and children. These places are absolutely adorable and are beautifully decorated. We did one at a restaurant near me for about $10 a person. We had 40 guests. Spend the money on a place like that and take a load off rather than acting like this is the first time you have ever done an event. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The Bateseses need to do a better job of including the other guests at their parties. The girls were all at one table playing the game (and cheating) while everyone else was sort of sitting around aimlessly. Then Addie cuts the line to give her paper to Kelly so the sisters could win. I know it's just a stupid bridal shower game, but that was rude. I remember something similar happening at Alyssa's first baby shower. 

I also noticed Erin got a little snippy over that salsa. Maybe the workload and stress of three kids under three is finally hitting her.

Carlin is ten levels beyond obnoxious. I don't understand the point of these engagement trips. Maybe I'm old, but a carefully orchestrated and choreographed proposal is so inauthentic. It comes across like a studio production rather than a heartfelt moment. 

Josie should've left her dress as is. That white lining totally ruined the beautiful detailing of the lace. 

I am old too.  In my life, the shower is given by the maid of honor and\or the bride's friends. But again we have stressed Kelly and her speeches. Plus late is not cute. 

Carlin is going to grate next week. I may skip it. I don't want to watch her surprise face and gasps. It is all so fake with the over kill on the proposals that are made for tv. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I think Lawson passed the lawn care business to one of the younger brothers some time ago. Gil no longer cuts down trees. With all the adult sons otherwise occupied with careers or (in Lawson's case) "careers," are they really handing over the tree business to the teen boys? Or has UP given them enough financial freedom to scrap the tree business altogether? 

we also have no evidence that Erin is still teaching. If she is, students would have to go to her. But nothing had been mentioned about it either on show or on Erin's SM. But yeah, Michael and Alyssa have some hustle.

Gil no longer seems to do the actual cutting of trees, which makes sense given his age. I think he transitioned more into the sales aspect and scheduling. I think he may have sold interest in the company to another aboriculture type business a while back though, as they no longer do any marketing or external communication really. Passing all the work onto those teen boys would result in all sorts of OSHA violations. I think Gil is now strictly focusing on the show and the church.

• I have doubts about Erin being an active piano instructor now. If she was, she would have been featured doing it on the show simply to show that the girls don't strictly go from entrepreneurs to mothers as soon as the ring is on their finger. She hasn't mentioned it lately on social media but has been recommending other teachers and programs. With Chad apprenticing and trying to start his own construction/refinishing business, the Paines seem to be first in line in terms of living beyond what would be their means without UP. Good for them, but it doesn't make for an authentic view.
   
• Bobby and Tori live in an apartment, which seems to be consistent with what his salary probably is at a church. Zach and Whitney were renting and bought a home that they fixed up or are fixing up. They haven't featured it yet, but it looks like Kelton and Josie are living similarly, which matches their earning prospects. 
   
• As a law enforcement person, Zach would bring in a steady salary and be eligible for lower interest rates and downpayment assistance through some local programs for law enforcement and/or teachers. I don't think Whitney's setting the world on fire with her career in real estate, but she probably did pay attention and saw that house. As a young adult, I worked for a real estate closing attorney. When I bought my first house, he agreed to cut the fees substantially, as did the title search agency and surveyors. So she could have gotten them a few discounts herself.
   
• Alyssa and John live typically of people in their position. She has been heard on the show saying they don't have a lot of money despite her father-in-law being in politics. But John works in a lucrative business for the area and seems to be hard working. I don't know if they still do the cleaning business, but Alyssa doesn't seem like much of a slouch. 
   
• Michael and Brandon seem to benefit from his job providing housing or at least stipends. I don't know a lot about it, but I know groups like that want their staff (especially those shown on television) to live in such a lifestyle as to project a comfortable atmosphere. I'm not talking jet planes and luxury cars/yachts. It benefits the Institute of Basic Life Principles to show those that work for them as not struggling so as to indicate to members and external audiences that it is such a wonderful place. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:25 AM, BitterApple said:

I agree. That scene got a little uncomfortable for me. I felt like they were using Erin's miscarriages to make Whitney's loss seem more dramatic. I'm not saying it isn't sad, but it happens. I don't know what it is or why, but I'm not feeling Whitney lately. I feel bad for any woman who suffers pregnancy loss, but something about that previous vow renewal episode has kind of turned me off to her. 

The editors/producers for the show have always seemed to play them off each other in that respect. In the first season where Whitney was pregnant with Bradley, it was mentioned over and over that Erin had been pregnant and due around the same time. I remember being sad for both of them that a) Erin was having to relive that  with interviews and scenes of her helping with the shower or basically any time she and Whitney were around each other and b) Whitney couldn't just be the mom to be of the first grandchild without the constant mentions of Erin's loss. It was almost like there was an asterisk by Whitney and Bradley or something.   

[Season 8 Discussion]

19 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

This family is living such a completely different lifestyle than they would be without the tv show (as is the case with most reality tv 'stars'), and for some reason, it really really irritates me with this family.  I wish I knew why I'm so bothered by it.

That's all. Carry on, my snarky friends.  

I am bothered by it too. Before the show, specifically, when they did the Nightline stories, they said they didn't want their own show and wouldn't do one. Months later they had a show on TLC. 

I have the same issue with some of these shows like Teen Mom too. In the real world, without the show, these women would not be living in nicer houses than I have when they have no job or a part-time job. The Bates is the same. I make good money, but I don't get multiple vacations a year or little excursions at the drop of a hat. I have a 1,400 square foot condo that I paid way too much to buy and didn't get to renovate it right away or redecorate every month. We eat generic food and rarely buy extras. So it is annoying to see shows like this where the all those things are seen as normal when nobody has a real job or one that would be able to pay for the lifestyle they lead. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 1/21/2019 at 3:37 AM, andromeda331 said:

I don't remember Whitney's style before the Bates but it definitely involved pants because then suddenly she was wearing skirts and dresses all the time. Then the usual she felt "convicted" to wear them. I'm sure after enough comments and pressure and/or guilt from Kelly that she suddenly felt convicted. They knew Zach liked her and enough that he wanted to marry her and were unable to deter him (Kelly even tried to find other Fundie girls but it didn't work) to them their only option was making sure Whitney became one of them. Whatever went down between Whitney and her parents I wouldn't be surprised if it also provided Gil and Kelly something to use to pull into their cult. Whether straight out manipulation or a girl who messed up (no matter how big or little) just hoping to be accepted or maybe even some what interested since the Bates appear to be happy and love each other. She wore dresses, had her fundie wedding, ditched her adoptive parents (which may or may not have Kelly encouraging given what Gothard thinks of adoption) and had two kids in quick succession. But over the last couple years Whitney has been changing and growing in confidence. She waited until after Alyssa but then ditched the skirts and dresses for more stylish, got hired as a realtor, they bought a new house and picked out that great looking dress for her renewal. I wish we'd gotten to see Gil and Kelly's reactions to all that. They can't be pleased with that.

Yes, Whitney was certainly was encouraged by Kelly to change her appearance, behavior, etc. It was clear on Kelly's old blog entries that Whitney was not Kelly's first choice in a wife for Zach. Erin's wedding and Alyssa's wedding both received post after post after post. We saw every single picture and heard every single detail. Zach's wedding to Whitney was barely featured at all. I would be willing to bet that Whitney got most of the blame that the two of them kissed before marriage and any other transgression that might have occurred. She seems to have been seen as the heathen who corrupted the oldest son. 

Based on the first season of the show and whatnot, (If you look back at the 19K&C that featured Erin's wedding, Whitney is there to greet the Duggars with Zach), I think that Whitney did try very hard to follow Kelly's lead on a lot of things. Maternity or not, she dressed very much like the old style of the Bates women with long cotton blend skirts and oversized shirts rather than actual maternity clothing. Her hair was rarely styled and hung straight in a mousy brown color with no highlights. She was seen more often with the younger (now married too) girls and doing the same chores as them. I've always interpreted her at that point as wanting to belong to a family. In the first episode, Tori made the comment that Whitney always came over while Zach was at work because she was lonely. It seemed like an odd statement to make given that she was adopted or fostered along with 11 others, essentially had two sets of parents, and surely had friends from her school days and work. 

I am curious what made her more comfortable with herself and less beholden to Kelly for advice and guidance. Pants or skirts/dresses, she has really blossomed outwardly. Up until the crying game of a vow renewal, she has been a relatively normal force among the family. I like the confident version of her that isn't as desperate for approval and acceptance as she could tend to be earlier on. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 1/16/2019 at 5:27 AM, floridamom said:

I understand the theory that the ladies may have flown in NYC for the day. However, I highly doubt that because they filmed their time in NY. This takes a lot of time to have a prepared, waiting sightseeing bus; shoot the event; film them 'walking' freely around NYC. These families have security, 'handlers' (who keep the general public away from them) and rehearsals. The general public in NY walks along those sidewalks also and they usually are quite crowded. Notice how no one was around them during these scenes? There was ample space around these ladies. Just doesn't happen in Manhattan during a normal business day. Good theory though.

Having worked and been involved with enough people who are on crews for such shows, I'm not seeing anything that tough for them to need even a two-day shoot. If there had been a hotel, they would have filmed there too to throw the name in there simply for the discount. You would have had at least one scene of them in a room talking about something related to being in New York or wedding dress shopping. The filming of the tour was clearly staged, as even during the middle of a week the bus tours through Grayline are normally full or near full. Last time I was on one, there were about 25 operating and you hopped off at places you wanted to see and back on to go to the next. An HBO show was filming at the time and used one of the buses for about an hour to film snippets of a fake tour. The bus was out of commission for about 2 hours, according to one of the guides on another bus. The people we were waiting on the tour with were complaining that they couldn't get on that bus and had to wait for the next one.

The women honestly filmed very little walking in the city. There was some of the general B-roll of stores, shops, restaurants, etc., but little with the ladies interacting with those things. Their walking consisted of less than a block (something an experienced crew can frame out even in NYC) in a more residential area. Even their walk in Central Park was minimal and could have been staged easily by a crew who had experience in the area. Most people I know who shoot that kind of stuff say that walking/talking shots take about 90 minutes to do two locations. Less if you are just shooting them walking and not talking (microphones). So essentially, if they took at 5:30 a.m. flight, they could film from 9 to noonish, have lunch, and still make it to the studio for dresses at 2 to film some more.  

[Season 8 Discussion]

Michael's wedding, which was the first one on this version of their show, did include a lot of discussion about budgeting. There was even the episode where she really liked the one dress until the woman started talking about the price and the extras of having it altered, pressed, steamed, etc. That was where we as the audience were told that the girls were each given a certain amount for the wedding and that everything else had to come from their savings, working, etc. and that they got the cake and flowers as gifts from the aunts. Erin and Alyssa both had dresses in bags that indicated they were from David's Bridal. 

However, that seems pretty disingenuous given that it is Kelly and Gil who seem to invite half the free world. Michael, Tori, and even Josie seem content to have much smaller weddings without the blanket invitation to everyone.  It is just another way that it feels like Kelly's wedding rather than the couple's event. I don't understand why Josie wouldn't take the picture of the dress she liked to some of the local stores to see if there was something similar in style. I don't know the details of who does what in the design world, but I'm betting that Leanne would have probably shipped samples of dresses to a local place for Josie strictly to get the publicity. Not only was Josie filmed in the dress for the show, magazines featured the wedding, lots of social media, etc. So the whole thing was extravagant for people who buy gifts at thrift stores. A friend of mine in the entertainment industry was able to get several designers to loan out samples for her to try and they weren't getting publicity for it. So not thinking this would be that far of a stretch. 

While I think UP helps, I can tell you from knowing someone who does camera work for them (not the Bates but the new design show they have coming up), UP doesn't have major money to comp all of these trips, dresses, etc. They aren't struggling, but there is some serious budgeting going on with the production team. Given that her appointment was at 2 p.m., Kelly, Carlin, Josie, and Whitney could potentially have flown up early that morning, taken the tour, and then went dress shopping before flying back the same day. That would have saved the cost of hotel rooms, multiple meals, etc. for them and for the crew. It would also lend credence to the theory that Josie was concerned over wasting time with tours. I did that for a business trip a few months ago, as the cost of hotels was way beyond my budget. My flight was $49 each way. Expensive for four people when you add in fees, taxes, etc., but not horribly so. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Carlin got a halo, and it was sizeable. I've seen the center stone cut into quarters to cut cost. I don't see any other way a barely employed kid like Evan could afford the real deal, which would be around $10 grand, even in TN.

That and there was probably a hefty discount for letting UP film in the store. I'm not a big fan of this practice, but many stores will give a discount for showing them in a good light. Granted I wouldn't be able to remember any details even if I was interested in engagement rings because all I saw was Carlin's open mouth and flailing hand. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

10 minutes ago, FaithfullyYours said:

Josie’s dress was beautiful just the way it was originally designed. That’s why she liked it so much. It pissed me off that Kelly made such a big deal about the flesh toned underlay. She totally guilted Josie into choosing that tacky white. The end result came out looking more like she was wearing a T-shirt under her dress. 

I agree. My parents are overly involved in my life (at my request), but Kelly is even more over the top. I shouldn't be surprised. Kelly has been this way with each wedding, as she basically thinks of them as her own. If I were one of the Bates girls, I think I probably would be tempted to elope to avoid the mother of the bride fights that I know I would have with Kelly. She inserts herself into every aspect of the wedding. I was annoyed last week when Kelly and Josie were having lunch with the wedding planner lady. Kelly answered most of the questions. Josie seems a bit more decisive than say Tori, but still it is her wedding and Kelton's. Kelly is not getting married. At least Josie's looking at dresses and has ideas about what she wants. I don't need a repeat of the cake shrug off of 2017. 

As was the rule with sex in my house, if you're mature enough to partake in it, you're mature enough to be able to have a conversation about it. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

46 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I think Josie is fairly close with Whitney. It may have been last season or before, but there was an episode with the married couples (I cannot remember if the courting couples were in it) that was sort of dating game-ish. It was asked which family member(s) was that particular person closest to. Whitney answered Josie. I think she answered someone else as well, but Josie was in the mix. I think Alyssa said Josie as well.

She appears to be very close to Whitney. There are pictures of Josie sitting on Whitney's lap (like silly teenage stuff) several years ago and she always sort of gravitates toward her. There have also been moments where Kelly is talking to all the sisters and Whitney about something. All the sisters sat together, with the exception of Josie, who was sitting right next to Whitney. I don't know that Josie and Carlin are all that close, but then again I can't imagine being close with Carlin given how loud and obnoxious she can be about EVERYTHING.

While Josie has a beautiful smile, she's not usually the hyper or excited one about things. Much like Alyssa, she seems to be quiet and more reserved. You never really see her with the jaw dropped, squealing, clapping hands demeanor that you would see out of Erin, Carlin, or even Katie. So I wouldn't really expect her to be bouncing and squealing with delight over everything like Carlin and Whitney were doing. 

Just my interpretation, I think she probably was concentrating on the reason for the trip (finding the dress) and making the appointment on time. Kelly isn't really known for her timeliness, so Josie might have been nervous about the time and making her appointment. I have a mother who is very lax about time so I know it drives me crazy when mom is calling the shots and I have something I need to do. Additionally, Kelly (probably inadvertently) puts a lot of pressure on her daughters about these dresses. She made a comment to Josie about whether or not it was worth it to travel to New York for this dress. She made a similar comment to Michaela when they traveled to Nashville to look at dresses. Yes, everyone hopes that they aren't making a trip for a good reason (UP was probably paying for the trip anyway). However, that can put a lot of pressure on a child or adult child of someone that is already having to make a boatload of decisions for the first time in their life. Through no fault of her own, Josie's been raised in a home where every decision is made for her (something that normal families start transitioning out of as the child nears adulthood. Her first big decision was a college program (though I have doubts that was fully her decision). Now she's making decisions about weddings, living after the wedding, etc. Maybe that's why Tori sort of froze up with her wedding planning block. 

To sum it up, Kelly Jo Bates can be a bit thoughtless with her quips that could really hurt some feelings if she is not careful. 

[Season 16 (Kentucky) Last Chance Kitchen]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

Claudette. She didn’t return to LCK after she got eliminated a second time they just had a week off and then started up again with Brother and Tu.

Thank you. I could see her in my head but couldn't remember her name. It's hard to Google a visual thought. 

[Season 16 (Kentucky) Last Chance Kitchen]

1 hour ago, Rammchick said:

It seems to me that it's awfully soon for someone to go back into the competition from LCK.  Does this mean they'll start all over again after this week's elimination?

I know they brought whatshername and Leanne back pretty early last season. I know they started over with the LCK, but I don't remember the details. Specifically, I don't remember if whatshername got to go back to LCK after she lost again or was that just it?

[Past Seasons Talk: The Stew Room]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:03 PM, Lamb18 said:

I've been rewatching old seasons and am now watching season 8 All Stars. Jamie and Tiffany F. were just eliminated. I am wondering why Jamie even bothered doing All-Stars since she was such an underachiever on that season. She was scrappy in season 5 but it seems like she just wanted to hide in the All Star season.

I adored Jamie at the start of season 5 and then lost respect for her after the constant whining about not winning a challenge. Her comments and bitterness about it were annoying, as she consistently complained that everyone thought she should have won challenges by now and how she was deserving, etc. She was even worse in the All Star season and barely cooked, even alleging that Carla and Fabio (who went farther than her in season 5 and All Star) were not as good as she was as a chef. 

The only time she stuck her neck out was during the dim sum challenge where she was way too slow and incompetent to complete two dishes while others only did one. 

 

On 12/10/2018 at 11:50 AM, Lovecat said:

I recorded (and am working my way through) a crapload of S8 All Stars, which ran last week in a lead-up to the new season.  Awkward to watch in the wake of Mike Isabella’s spectacular downfall, and doubly-so when I got to the episode judged by Paula Deen and John Besh.  Throw in a handful of appearances by the sadly-departed Anthony Bourdain, and this is kind of the most depressing season ever—why would they chose it as their pre-debut marathon??

I love many of the challenges of that season, but it has not held up well over time. I hate that I have such a sour perception of Besh now, as he was a personal favorite of mine. And watching the Bourdain episodes always make me sad. I still love his quip during Restaurant Wars (I think) about "You're not talking to your parole officer."

[Season 16 (Kentucky) Last Chance Kitchen]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:30 AM, allirish47 said:

Seems unfair to Brother that he had five sous he didn't know so had no idea of their strengths. Nini, OTOH, knew her team well & could assign tasks accordingly. But then, fairness & Restaurant Wars don't go together anyhow.

Yes and no. The other chefs also know Nini and could potentially have issues working with her based on recent events. Nini was adamant she was happy working with any of them, but we all know that was a facade. While they know Brother, if they watched that season, it is likely that at least some would have better opinions of him based on what they saw on television (Brother) versus what they knew from experience (NiNi). You could also have some strategy going on here. They would know Brother's weaknesses based on the past season, but with Nini they knew her as someone who kept beating them and had a really bad Restaurant Wars challenge. 

So it could all even out in the end.  

[S16.E05: Restaurant Wars Part 2]

8 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Actually, in the past I can remember Tom being accused of showing favoritism towards female contestants. He brought two women who he really liked back from LCK who then won the title.

Agreed. Padma is usually harder on the women than Tom. 

 

I finally was able to see this fully on Amazon. Still don't know why they delayed it, but oh well. It was disappointing to say the least. I do like Restaurant Wars normally, but not when it is simply a disaster. I don't get why anyone would want to volunteer for any job other than line cook. This seems like it would be a better time to fly under the radar.

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 1/5/2019 at 3:31 PM, KnoxForPres said:

As an aside, we grew up with a few  families who had four kids and were actually wealthy but it was a known you get water at meals. Ever noticed these cats always have teas and sodas?  It’s not really a big deal at all but I mention it bc I always think of it. I know production likely pays or comped, but I still see parents going “sweet tea” knowing it’s not on their dime. 

1

There is an old episode of the Duggars' show where the Duggars meet up with the Bateses at a restaurant. Gil makes a big deal of the kids being allowed to order soft drinks if they want. It's clear that production was paying for the meal based on what was said afterward. Then there were the stories about Gil and Kelly going to restaurants for a steak and the kids fighting for the leftovers. I think that some of the adult children now remember those days of less and seem to be concentrating on having a better life now (Zach, Alyssa and to some extent Tori). It's not to say they do all the right things, but there is a drive there that I have seen in other people who grew up in large families and felt they had to sacrifice things in order to keep the peace or keep their parents happy. While Lawson still lives at home, he's shown that he is interested in having things that maybe he was denied when he was younger by buying so many boots, hats, clothes, etc. Even Erin exhibits this, but a bit differently than the others with her redecorating, as it was clear from the beginning that she was excited about having space of her own. 

 

17 hours ago, iluvobx said:

They live in the south and people drink sweet tea in the south.  Making tea is not expensive.  That is what we drank at lunch and dinner and milk for breakfast.

Not everyone. I can't stand the stuff and would rather drink anything else. I think @KnoxForPres is referring to their drinking habits when they are out and about. Before their show and during the news magazine broadcasts, the family would drink water when out at a restaurant. There were references to this during the Duggar episodes about renovating the house, as Gil said they drank water from the sink and it cost him nothing because of the well. As the show has progressed you see them more with bottled drinks at home and carbonated drinks at restaurants. 

It's a minor thing really, but evidence that Gil and Kelly are certainly enjoying the money from the show, as they now take many more vacations and trips, eat out more often, wear newer clothes, etc. 

The thing that has stuck out to me though is still the lack of toys over the years, especially for the girls. With my two daughters there are days when I would rather move than have to pick up all the dolls, doll clothes, race cars, balls, board games, costumes, Transformers, Legos, video games, etc. Other than their bikes, we don't really see the younger ones with lots of playthings. Jeb and Judson are shown with some things, but the youngest girls don't seem to get that same stuff. During their I Love You Day present fest most of the gifts are coffee mugs, clothes/shoes, clip on earrings, etc. While the children are older now, I can't really recall seeing them with toys that you would see in most family homes. I know the Duggar girls do carry dolls around and have doll houses, etc. Maybe the Bates girls do too and we just don't see it.  

[Season 8 Discussion]

20 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Alyssa doesn't have a perpetual smile on her face like Kelly Jo, Erin and Tori. I'll bet production paid for the airfare for her and her kids. She seems pretty down to earth so I can't imagine that she would pay for the airfare just to show up for this shindig. 

It was just a brief view of her. Who knows? Maybe she was having a bad moment or day. I know I've probably walked into a family event looking ready to murder. She's made comments in the past that the noise and all of her family is now overwhelming (though not sure 3 daughters is any quieter), so if she had just arrived when they shot that, she might have been readying herself for it all. Were Tori and Bobby there? I wasn't 100% watching so I didn't count the kids or anything.