[Alyssa and John: Lunch with Lurch]

3 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Alyssa said in an Instagram story yesterday that Katie was helping her with the girls.  I assume it is her sister Katie, unless John also has a sister named Katie?

Carlin had her wedding shower over the weekend. She commented to Katie on IG that she missed her. Katie posted a story showing Alyssa recovering. So I think Katie Bates must be there. 

Josie wasn't at the shower either. She and kelton were in Charleston. Josie said Carlin changed the shower dates and they already had plans. Interesting though since the show hyped up the close Josie Alyssa relationship. Maybe they were checking in by phone. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

5 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Poor Bobby looked lost. It seemed like he didn't know where to stand or what to do.

But he was chomping that gum. At least Erin finally got rid of hers. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I wouldn't either. The birth of your first child is a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. I feel like poor Bobby was robbed of that special moment because Erin kept crowding the bed and honing in on the baby, while Kelly yammered on endlessly. He couldn't get a minute alone with his wife and child. I think Alyssa has the right idea with regards to family and labor: "don't call us, we'll call you." 

I'm hoping Josie takes after Alyssa on the birth thing. Kelton shouldn't call until the baby is crowning. Even then don't tell them the room number. 

[Alyssa and John: Lunch with Lurch]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Going by what John wrote about a 2 hour prep, it sounds like she had general. Would that indicate a more serious issue? 

No, some doctors put everyone under for it. Some don't. Mine didn't like to, but I insisted because I knew I couldn't lie there perfectly still for hours while they "rooted around" looking for problem areas. I think I read something about 6 hours for her so I assume she was knocked out too. 

My experience was: Essentially, they prep your thigh/groin area and then take you into this really cold room with the tiniest table/bed you have ever seen. It was like laying down on a balance beam. They put those sticky things everywhere on you, including your feet. You're hooked up to IVs and there are like 15 people standing there sticking circles and squares to you. Kind of like angioplasty or one of those, they send a camera and the instrument to create scar tissue up through your artery after you are asleep or at least sedated. They found my issue during a stress test so they had to try to recreate it by sending signals to my heart to try to get it to do the wrong thing.

I asked the doctor not to tell me any more, as I didn't want to think about it.   

My guess is that she will follow doctor's orders for a while until she feels comfortable. If she's like me, she's probably going to wonder constantly about it coming back. Every little hiccup or short breath will scare her a little. But as time goes on, she'll get back to her normal life. That's assuming they did get everything and that she doesn't have to go through more treatment or medication. 

Because they go in through an artery, she'll be on light duty for a few days so that she doesn't tear it and bleed out. They will probably recommend that she not get pregnant any time soon because there is a chance it didn't work and some medications would be bad to introduce while pregnant. If they get it under control though, there shouldn't be a problem. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I kind of felt bad for Bobby and Tori this episode. First, because Erin totally hijacked the birth and second because Josie hijacked Tori's new baby thunder with her pregnancy announcement. You definitely don't get the spotlight for long in this family, that's for sure. 

The puppy was cute, but ideally dogs shouldn't be separated from their mothers until eight weeks. Gil purchasing him at six screams "Backyard breeder too cheap to pay for the first round of vaccines." I'm actually shocked the Bateseses had his predecessor for 18 years. All I could think of was the myriad of Duggar pets who've disappeared with no explanation.

I agree, Nathan is getting chunky.

That's all I've got.

Erin would have totally been the mean girl going for the cheer team in high school if she hadn't been homeschooled. Carlin too. But seriously, Erin was worse that Kelly Jo with the screeching and squealing. Tori's having a baby. She doesn't need confetti, streamers, and pom poms while she is giving birth. If I was Tori, I would have kicked all of them out.  

Nathan's face is looking especially square and full these days. 

[Alyssa and John: Lunch with Lurch]

No heart surgery is fun. Ablation is one of the easiest though. There's no real recovery time from it or anything. Many people have it done while they are awake and have no aftereffects at all. I had it done while I was asleep, but I'm sort of a wuss that way. The worst part for me was the bandage on my thigh/groin from the guidewire. That was tender for a while. 

Essentially, they go in and create scar tissue where electrical signals are misfiring and giving you an extra heartbeat or palpitation. It takes a while because they have to find each place to create the scar tissue. 

When I had mine done, I was having dinner and headed home like an hour or 90 minutes later. 

It won't slow her down on the kid front at all. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 4/6/2019 at 8:17 PM, sATL said:

Glad this sub-topic was brought up. I thought it was just my satellite provider... was going to complain (probably to deaf ears)  when I got a free moment. My issue is that DVR space is limited (keeping other oldie goldie items) and taking up a whole hour is blocking another show I want to see or tape. bates doesn't repeat much during the night/week, so I prefer to tape the episode and get to it when I can.

I think the decorators are twins. I can't remember if it was UP-tv or another network but there seem to be an obsession with adult twins... I did get hooked on a special with twin women who were lawyers (law school was the only time in their life they were living in different places) married twin guys, at some big twin conference. both had on identical wedding dresses. they hope to get pregnant at the same time. they all will live under one roof.

You might try recording on the Sunday morning replay. It is from 8:30 to 9. When I recod, I do that one so it doesn't give me 30 minutes of a show i don't want. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

13 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Maybe the whole l&d experience will toughen Tori up a bit!

It cracks me up how unaware she is in life. She was present for numerous births (her mother, sisters, and even sister-in-law. Pregnancy and childbirth aren't hidden secrets in the Bates home. It's the same with cooking, cleaning, etc. She doesn't know what happens in child birth or life in general because she didn't want to know until it actually affected her. She has had plenty of chances to observe and learn. 

No, I don't expect her to know how to deliver a child like a doctor. I just find it mind blowing that she could lack that much curiosity about things in her life and the lives around her. She was the same about her wedding. How was she not aware that there are different flavors or cake? 

I hope she's more knowledgeable about being a mom and doesn't get that petulant voice on as she wonders if it's time to change Kade's diaper. 

Kelly Jo's voice is annoying, as is the insistence she and Gil have at being each child's bestest friend ever. I do things with my mother, but I wouldn't invite her to a party with my friends. I would think that the producers wanted Kelly Jo and/or Bobby to talk to Tori during the scenes being shot. Otherwise, they would be pretty boring. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wouldn't be surprised either. Kelly throws work at Michael every time she comes to visit. The second she walks through the door.

And whether trained into her or really because she likes it, Michaela also volunteers many times when it would be easier to pass on the chance. When Gil and Kelly Jo were on one of their trips, she said she called and begged for some of the younger children (the boys) to stay with her and Brandon. If Gil and Kelly Jo were truly asking her to watch the boys, it would have made more sense for Brandon and Michaela to travel to them versus sending the boys to Chicago. 

While I have doubts about Alyssa, Tori, etc. volunteering for extra duty. I do think that Michaela tends to volunteer for some things (not all). The question is: Does she volunteer because that's what she wants or because she assumes she will be recruited anyway? I know at work I have to speak up to volunteer for assignments simply because if I don't, they will assign me something I don't want. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

15 hours ago, cereality said:

So I imagine Tori’s whining about it’s sooooooo hard to take care of Kade alone without any support from her family is what drove Bobby and Tori back home? Bc Bobby was excited about his job in Nashville, their apartment etc. He went to school for ministry and most 23 year old ministers in fact do start out as youth ministers because they’re young enough to be able to relate to and minister the 14-22 year old set that is hanging out at the church trying to meet their spouses via church functions and then bam a few years later they’re the ones performing the marriages, baptisms etc. for these congregants.  I don’t even know if he was at the job for a year – bc Kade was born in Nov and Tori was already 1-2 mos pregnant when they moved, so we’re looking at 11-12 months in Nashville max before Tori’s incessant complaining got him to relent and move back.  Thing is – unfortunately for him – they know he’s employable in Knoxville.  He worked at the metals company where Chad worked before him and it’s owned by a family friend – so if he can’t earn a living at Gil’s church or the teaching job mentioned above didn’t come through – he can still work for the metals co.  Plus Chad is now expected to employ all the males in the family, so now no son in law can say – sorry I can’t find a job in Knoxville.

As for Michael – normally I’d say for any woman that it’s great to go back to school and have some career and life of your own that isn’t about waiting for Prince Charming to show up; then sitting home waiting for him to come home from work daily while waiting to bear his child and then raising said child.

BUT reality is that’s only true for normal non-fundie families.  In a fundie family the only reason you pursue any kind of real education as a woman is because something is wrong with your home life – either a husband didn’t come along or you can’t make babies, so education and career is a consolation price.  John David Duggar’s wife so much as said it – she felt she was never going to get married at 28 and had been going to so many weddings, that she decided she’d be a nurse and then life would be “ok” with a career.  I feel like that’s what Michael is now doing re babies. But move back to Knox to do it there – with 15,000 nieces and nephews and your 50+ yr old mom’s young kids is going to be a LOT to take mentally.  She WILL be expected to take care of Jeb, Jud, Kade constantly and then whichever of Whit/Erin/Josie is stressed at the moment having so many young kids (and I don’t put it past Carlin to bring Evan to Knox in a year with a baby). I know she loves kids, but having her breeder sisters in her face daily is going to be a reminder of what she doesn’t have and how she must reluctantly soldier on with a “career” instead of having the woman’s ultimate god given career – MOMMY.

I honestly find Kelly and all the daughters except Michael to be rude and fake religious and really shrewd.  All the sisters except Michael went out and grabbed whichever fundie they wanted to marry and have them wrapped around their fingers, so that if there were a baby issue – they’d be off doing IVF or whatever is necessary no questions asked.  Michael OTOH is actual fundie – waited for years praying for her headship to propose; now praying tearfully for a baby and accepting her headship’s view that she needs to pray more; all in God’s time etc. when you KNOW she wants to do whatever they need to do to make a baby but she won’t dare cross her faith.

It’s one thing to deal with Kelly and her sisters once a quarter and hold a baby for a few days and then fly home, but now on a daily basis it’ll be these side comments of – school/career, GOOD FOR YOU (while internally doing the poor her – I wonder what’s wrong with them, no babies).  It’s the same way that it’s en vogue to brag about how great your life/family is/how swell your vacations are/how your husband buys lavish presents etc. with hashtag blessed.  I mean you’re still bragging and lording your status over others but as long as you add #blessed, you’re supposedly being thankful.  I feel like that’s what Kelly and all the older daughters do when they talk about how the Lord has blessed them.

I don't think that returning close to home will be ideal for Michaela, who is clearly choosing education as a consolation prize. However, I am hopeful that she will be able to strike a balance between caring for others and school. I am also hopeful that attending classes (there's only so much of a nursing program that can be done at a distance or online) will provide her with other points of view. Erin was the one who was scared of it, but Michaela might end up in class with the girl with green hair, the single mom, the LGBTQ student, etc. No, she's not going to come out of the experience with feminist ideas or actions. But she can come out of the experience with a more open-eyed look at the world compared to her sisters who went to a school (Crown) where most everyone is of the same beliefs and thoughts. I would have never pegged her as being the one to maybe have that experience. But good for her for doing something.

Unfortunately, her sisters and mother will certainly pity her and use her at the same time. I certainly know how that goes. Before I went through the adoption process, I was seen as someone to be pitied by my extended family. They still are critical that I didn't go a traditional marriage, kids, and girly career route. I don't enjoy spending time with kids as much as Michaela does, but people expected me to at events. I finally had to tell people that my responsibility was to myself (before my kids were adopted) and not to them or their offspring. But Michaela is a different woman. Caring for other kids might be her happy place and what makes her relax. 

I remain cautiously optimistic because it is an opportunity that others in their circle deny themselves. Out of choice or necessity, she's taking that step. While I and many others would make different decisions or at least more drastic ones, she's doing something that is a step forward from that fundie life. Baby steps might not change the world, but at least she isn't sitting still.

[Season 8 Discussion]

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

If he's not back at Gil's church, I'll eat my non-existent hat. 

That would be a shame. Gil's not going to hire him to do something substantial at the church that would actually be a good use of his education. When Bobby first moved to TN, Gil's idea of a job at the church was odd jobs and cleaning, as Gil is the only preacher amongst them. I'm not sure his ego would allow for someone younger and more trained in actual ministry to take on a leadership role at the church. 

I hope that if he does go for a job under Gil that it is simply temporary and he's out interviewing or whatever you do to get a church job. I may not be a fan of Tori's attitude and behavior, but Bobby seems like a nice person overall. The best thing for him and for her would be to put distance between them and the family. His parents would probably agree. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Lawson released his music video for "One Plus One." He sounds marginally better with studio wizardry, but his voice is still bland and flat. The video stars Evan and Carlin. Prepare to be nauseated:

https://youtu.be/An3aneQjOr4

He still does that weird pacing/breathing thing with his voice. I'd suggest lessons, but a day job would be smarter. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Which TN  grant ? Don't you have to be a resident of the state? She's been in IL for a few years, now.  And I would think IL would have a similar grant/scholarship pgm.

We have a similar pgm in GA but one must be a resident, which has to be approved  by the university/school in question.  And normally there is  a time limit on when you earn your HS Dipoloma/GED, (but sometimes there is not) to qualify for scholarship/grant the pgm. 

I'm not saying she is too old to be an LPN.

I don't know the name of the grant. It is modeled after the Georgia one, which my friend wrote the backgrounder for a few years ago. It's less stringent and last I checked the person has to be accepted into a program on the critical needs list for careers and must have a diploma from TN and no higher than an AS. Some programs get paid in full. Others 75%. And still others receive a stipend plus the tuition to cover uniforms and other expenses. Illinois didn't have the program as of last year and I doubt that has changed. Most states base it on where you graduated high school from or where you have studied most recently. So Tennessee is the answer to both of those for her. 

At one point this was the Critical Career Grant program, but I heard the name changed. Many students overlook it because it only covers LPN and not RN. It is not so much about higher education as it is about training people to get in the workforce. It is promoted internally mostly so people don't rush out and major in something just to get free tuition and then change to what they really want at the last minute. 

She could qualify for that and possibly WIOA funds (if she got the right coordinator), as well as Pell or similar programs. Tennessee's version of HOPE probably isn't going to work for her at her age, but I don't know it as well. There are other needs based ones too. And sometimes these community colleges have foundations with donors who have big pockets. A friend of mine wanted to go back to school for criminal justice. A family of a woman killed while training to be an officer paid her whole way through simply because she reminded them of their daughter. 

Michaela moved to Chicago are in 2015. So she would be considered a resident for tuition there. But Tennessee has different rules. They look at where your support is coming from in terms of money. If most of it is from out of state, then you are not a resident. If it is in state, then you are. Most of the time (and this is not always) it is simply required to have a proof of intention to stay - a driver's license.

As for her age:  

I only meant on the age thing that she will be in class with others her age. Many will be married, but just as many will be single and usually moving back home to mom and dad to start over in a new career. Most healthcare programs at community and technical colleges, as well as education programs, are nearly impossible to juggle with a job. So you'll find a lot of people swallowing their pride to move back home if just for the emotional support. Now if she was moving Brandon back home for her to study something less demanding and more frivolous, I'd say it was too late for that kind of thing. But with the rigors of these kinds of programs, I would assume she will appreciate a home cooked meal that she doesn't have to cook or feeling a part of things when she has been seemingly more isolated in Chicago. 

She seems more introverted than some of her sisters, so I can see it being harder on her to be away than someone like Alyssa. John has sisters and sisters-in-law who are close to them in Florida to provide social interaction too. Plus Alyssa seems more over the whole giant family thing than Michael. 

Brandon's sisters are not in Chicago. Brandon's not my kind of guy, but kudos to him for either recognizing or being open to the idea of change being good for her. I'm sure they thought she would be busy being mom to 2-3 kids by now and this wouldn't be a possibility.  As someone who recently had to come to a tough realization and make a decision that highlighted that, I'm not ready to be disappointed in her yet for this one. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

7 minutes ago, iluvobx said:

This news actually makes me very sad.  I think that more pressure will be put on Michael then what she needs.  Imagine what they would say to her?  Which would make her even sadder.  They all claim that anything/everything is God's will.   If that is the case, then they should accept the fact that for whatever reason, God's plan does not include Michael and Brandon to be parents at this time but that doesn't mean that it is God's plan for Michael to take care of all her younger siblings, niece, and nephews.

Maybe Michaela has grown a backbone and that's the real reason behind going to school to become a nurse. She can babysit when she wants, but she can claim homework when she doesn't want to be a slave. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

Tennessee and other states have some really attractive grant programs for LPN programs that make them tuition free if you are a graduate of a Tennessee high school or got your GED in the state. I can't blame her for that. 

As for her age, she's not old by any stretch of the imagination for an LPN program. The average age a few years ago was 31. 

Good for her for not sitting around waiting to get pregnant. She's doing something with her life. And if she quits after she has or adopts a baby, that's fine too. Education (a real one) isn't wasted just because you aren't using it on a daily basis. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

12 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I don't know, I predict they will have great success. There are thousands if not a couple million young girls who will eat. this. up.

Given that the majority of their followers who would buy modest clothing from them are IBLP or some version of that, that's a big problem. That audience has limited connectivity due to restrictions. Then there are credit cards. In many of those families, daddy has the card or the husband has the card. If they are leg humpers who have credit cards, they are more likely to be savvy enough to know a good deal.

So it still comes down to if their suppliers suck then they will lose business, as people want what they pay to get. If they don't price it low enough, people will visit but they won't buy because someone is not going to buy what they can get for cheaper some place else just because the name Bates is attached to it.  

Marketing for a business isn't build it and they will come. Or in my industry, spray and pray. Conversions from visitors to purchasers won't be easy. I currently have 800,000 plus followers on Instagram. Not all of them buy my books. There are some of them that will and others who don't. The skill is knowing which ones to market to and get over to that buying side of the line. 

I predict they will get a month or two or good returns because of the novelty, but they really have to have their crap together to keep those customers and attract new ones. Not to mention they will have to do so in a way that doesn't insult their conservative followers nor their more modern ones. That's a balance and nuance that may sink them. 

Be optimistic about it. I've just watched far too many businesses fail with more skilled and knowledgeable people at the helm. And again, we don't know their goals. They might just want to have a hobby or get free clothes for themselves. Or maybe they want to be millionaires. Who knows? Success isn't always defined as we assume. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

4 hours ago, gunderda said:

I think if they can keep it going and treat it as a real business (unless the Teen moms who roll out their shops and then lose interest in a few months) I think it could be a long term thing for them.  They have enough fans that it should take off at first - they just need to keep with it

They have a chance.

I just don't see it going well without real plans and consultants who are actually skilled. This family has such a tendency to shun actual knowledge for something that agrees with their beliefs. Hire an accountant who is an accountant. Hire a stylist and not just someone who looks good at church. Hire a photographer, developer, marketer, etc. who have education, experience, and know what they are doing. 

Yes, they have followers who will at least look at their site, but it takes more than that to get someone to convert from viewer to purchaser. If you do a quick look at the modest modern shops online, these are not high price items. They are going to have to have a quality wholesaler who provides clothing cheap and on time. Even then, they are going to have to price it well to compete in a saturated market. There are three of them. So if they sell a shirt for $13 online that costs them $10 from the wholesaler, they made $3. That's $1 each. But wait...what about the website, which didn't get made for free. And what about the label costs to be a seller if any require that (bad idea, but you don't know with these girls)? And what about the costs of accepting credit card payments? Paypal is an option, but it can rack up the fees. They have to get a line of credit or a substantial credit card to pay for what they are ordering for their customers. Once they establish their business and get customers, they'll have to deal with sales tax from certain states. Legit sites have phone numbers, so there is that cost. Who is answering the phone and the emails? Do they have back up And the list goes on and on and on.  

That's just for dropshipping. If they are going for loftier plans, they are most definitely not prepared. 

Given their history and belief system, its longevity will be hindered by the addition of more children/responsibilities and an attention span that sometimes mirrors a gnat. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

3 hours ago, iluvobx said:

Hendersonville is right outside of Nashville.  Since I lived in that area, it has grown and it more of a suburb to Nashville than when Johnny Cash lived there.

I grew up in TN. I just meant that logically it makes sense for him to stay in Hendersonville and search for a job in the wider Nashville area rather than pick up and move back to the Anderson County/Knoxville area. One can always move after finding a job. I just meant that staying there kept his options open with Nashville and the surrounding area. There are lots of churches and nonprofits in that area that would be good places to find work for him. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

18 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Apparently, Chad created an Instagram page for his new construction business. Kelly has it up on the Bateseses' family page, showing a picture of Chad with Trace and Warden on a job site.

I'm sure potential clients will be thrilled to know unlicensed teenagers are doing the labor. Smart move, Chad.....

I have cousins who do that kind of work and starting their own businesses. None of them are formally trained or licensed. They just "know" how to do things from having watched others. Call me crazy, but I prefer to hire licensed and bonded trades people to do my plumbing, electrical, and carpentry. It's a contentious point in my family, as I call in professionals and the rest of the extended family will call the cousins. But I sure as heck don't want a 15/16 year old doing the work. 

Let's say Chad hires actual electricians and plumbers. He's still got an insurance issue with minors on site. If there was a mistake, damage, or an accident that damaged or destroyed the home while he was working on it, the insurance company could refuse to pay if they got word a 15/16 year old was working on the project. Given that this family is so cheap (thrifty), I'm doubting Chad would have the common sense to acquire extra protection that would cover it. It's great if I'm wrong. But it seems like a good way to get to get in trouble and lose your business. Gil skirted this in his tree business. 

Based on federal regulations, minors cannot do tasks (not a full list) :

Driving a motor vehicle • Operating power-driven woodworking machines (including drills and nail guns) • Operating forklifts, cranes, hoists or elevators • Operating power-driven metal forming, punching, and shearing machines • Operating power-driven circular saws, band saws, and guillotine shears • Wrecking, demolition, and shipbreaking operations • Roofing operations • Excavation operations

[Season 8 Discussion]

14 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Tori lives 4 hours away from Chez Bates. 

They do for now, but apparently, Bobby's not at the job he had in Hendersonville any longer (no longer on the website anyway). He's more likely to find work in the larger area of Nashville, but if Kelly Jo sees an option to get them back in Rocky Top...How long until they retreat and find him a job in Knoxville or even working for Gil? It would also mean that Tori could "work" for Kelly Jo and take over the education of the younger kids with Kade on her hip. After all, she has that education degree. It's not like she has to actually teach. The kids do workbooks and the teens watch videos and answer questions online. From what they have shown, the Bates and Duggars treat teaching as simply keeping people on task. 

21 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The funny thing is, I wonder if the marrieds even truly want to homeschool or whether they're just too scared to go against Kelly and Gil. Zach and Whit surprise me most of all, because they've worked in the real world and should be well aware of how substandard education makes it difficult to compete. 

Alyssa doesn't surprise me. She's not the sharpest tool and I'm sure she figures her daughters will be married at 19 like she was, so they don't need much beyond the basics. 

I think Erin will go batshit crazy. Assuming she'll be pregnant before the year's out, I can't see her trying to maintain her coiffure, do her recipes,  her Pinterest decorating and homeschool three active kids in that tiny house. She'll start aging as rapidly as Chad. 

Tori's so lazy, she'll probably half-ass it and complain the whole time.

1

Erin and Chad are back to making noise about building a house and looking for land. I've got $20 that says it will be a storyline this year. Another pregnancy could be the catalyst on that, as they'll be desperate to get that done before she gives birth. Make it a storyline on the show and they'll get financial help getting it done. 

I would hope that Zach would not want to homeschool, but there is still that people pleaser in Whitney. She may see homeschooling as an area to get approval from Kelly Jo as being a good enough wife for her oldest boy. She might have an easier time of it if some of the other older boys were married and there were other daughters-in-law. Right now she kind of sticks out there as being a mother of two Bates, but not having been raised as a Bates or even in IBLP. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:14 PM, sATL said:

Michealla the seamstress was left out of this business venture ?

I find that interesting too. 

None of these young women have business education or experience, except maybe Whitney who sells real estate part-time. They are using the same web designer that the family always uses and Taryn to do photography (how will people know what they are buying through the blur?).  I'm wondering if they are planning to do a drop shipping business where they sell the items, order them from someone else, and then have them shipped to the customer rather than having actual inventory. That's a bit easier to manage, but still not as simple as they would need it. Not to mention that market is really full these days. Unless you have a super special niche, it's nearly impossible to make a dent. Clothing is an especially crowded market place - even modest modern. 

I'd say it would be helpful for them to hire people who know how to do this, but this family doesn't do that. They simply bring on someone they know from church who might have seen whatever skill they need. 

I don't see this going well, but whatever. It's just another vanity project for them like Erin's or Lawson's recording/music careers.

[Season 8 Discussion]

14 hours ago, sATL said:

It also k-12 where one who is looking into trade , interest and talent begins to show. For example the tween/teen who takes interests in food/restaurant might look into going to a culinary program. Most the cosmetologist I know, were fooling with hair/makeup in high school . Katie seems to be doing the pgm as a "last choice" as opposed to a passion. 

What gets me about the parents they had a decent education. Granted everyone has/had grips about the school system (public or pvt) they went to, however everyone used the experience as stepping stone to the next. What worse Gil/Kelly met in a traditional college - chemistry class I believe. Why deny your children the opportunity - when you lived to tell the story, just b/c you changed religious practices.

I can't wait until the grand-Bates and grand-Duggers (esp. Jinger & Jill b/c of their husbands education) are school age to see what their parents decided. I think Josh's offspring are part of the family homeschool, though. Since Zach/Whitney have the oldest grandchild , I guess we will know soon.

Zach might be also getting his "eyes opened" on formal education by being at work and reading the employee handbook. I'm sure there is some kind of tuition reimbursement (if taken at an accredited  location) and to promote up , most peace officers do have more than high school/GED.

Kelly Jo worked as a work study student in the chem lab while Gil had a chem class at Anderson. While I wouldn't go there, Carson Newman where they eventually went to school, is not a bad school at all. It is a private, Christian College, but it is fully accredited regionally and nationally, including all its programs. 

I'm not anti home school education, which is usually a tip off I'm about to slam it. I'm not. I don't like the way the Bates and Duggars do it. From my own school experience, I have had good teachers and horrible teachers. I'm in a grad school class right now with a horrible professor. I am muddling through though because I know this summer I have two awesome ones. Pretending that Kelly Jo does the teaching, these kids never hear a different perspective and never hold an opposing thought in their heads. Other homeschool families join co-ops and enjoy communicating with each other one day a week or more. They share the responsibilities of teaching by having parents switch off and teach their expertise or passion. The Bates have Mom, workbooks, and whatever daughter is over 18 and single. We've seen that the girls who are charged with education of the younger ones are typically bossing them around and insisting they do it without truly understanding how to work with children. Carlin spraying water on the boys who wouldn't get up in the morning springs to mind. The Duggars have "hired tutors," but typically these are other young women brought up in the same lifestyle who haven't gotten married yet. I have yet to see evidence that any of these families bring in people who are actually skilled. 

Kelly Jo may have minored in special education, but that's hardly enough to individualize curriculum for 19 students. Her daughters, who have been taking on over that until marriage and around their own classes, are not even that well trained. As the grandchildren grow, we're going to see the effects of a trickle down education. Some of these people aren't that smart; nor do they have the basic skills that most successful adults have acquired. Now they are going to attempt to teach their own children? That's not going to go well. People talk about generational poverty, but we're about to embark on generational ignorance. So far Whitney and Erin have both said they plan to homeschool. It is assumed Alyssa will simply because of how she was raised and her father in law's views on the subject. I don't see any of the Bates new parents bucking the system on that yet. Tori's probably best prepared with her education from Crown, but we'll see on that. 

Other than music, Gil and Kelly have not really allowed or encouraged their children to learn anything of significance while K-12 age. Some of the boys are now working with Chad, but that is hardly a formal program to explore the career. Not to mention there are some insurance and legal issues with minors on a construction site I highly doubt they consider or worry about really. Vocational programs in schools and apprenticeship programs are very careful about such things. Josie is the one that studied cosmetology first, but in interviews admitted that it was Carlin who spent more time doing other people's hair and makeup. Tori even said for her wedding she preferred Carlin to do her hair because she had "more experience." Katie's less into it than Josie so I can just imagine that she simply picked from the available choices at Crown and went with one that seemed like it might work. Josie and Katie both seem less into children than their sisters so education was out. They neither one seem as passionate about music as some of the siblings, so that was out. Ministry and the other trade programs (automotive repair, welding and HVAC) are not a choice for women typically in these families. That left the biblical business program or cosmetology. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

1 hour ago, Kathy said:

This new episode was boring.  Why do they have to be all over each other to prove their love to us?  When Kelly and Gil were in the car driving the little boys to rock climbing they were so touchy feely like just let Gil drive already.

I don't see Trace being a cop.  He didn't seem that into it.

I like that Josie decorated her new place herself (with her friend)instead of calling in the family decorator Erin.

What doesn't Kelly Jo get the vapors over on this show? She screams and has a "come aparts" in cars, on the swing, watching her children on playground equipment, climbing rock walls, on boats, etc. Does this woman have a normal mode in her life? Sometimes I wonder why Carlin and Erin seem to love all the attention and then I see Kelly Jo and remember she raised them. I wouldn't invite that woman anywhere for the sake of my eardrums. 

That said, I'm pleased that they did take Addy to the doctor and acknowledged her hearing issues. Her speech impediment had already revealed it without them saying it, but I'm glad to know they have taken steps to help her. 

Poor Trace. He is still searching for what he wants to be when he grows up. Maybe he should try to do something his brothers haven't done. He likes horses and trick riding, what about looking at working with animals. I'm not saying a vet, but maybe a stable and do riding lessons. 

Yes, I was glad to see that little bit of independence from Josie. She's being a bit more Alyssa like with her not wanting everyone to come visit and doing more of her own thing. I hope that continues. I could see shades of that with her planning the wedding and not relying upon her mother or Erin for every single thing (Tori). I also appreciate that she welcomed Whitney just to stop by (probably planted but whatever) and didn't immediately rope her into helping. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

1 hour ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

I wouldn't say the cameras have ruined the family, but they've definitely changed them. The girls especially are hyper-aware of how they look; there is so much emphasis on fashion, makeup and hairstyling. That's normal for teenage girls, but sometimes I wonder if they ever get criticism from the fundie community.

Beyond the outward appearance stuff, some of them are so aware of the cameras that they pose and try to be in the background or foreground (Carlin) for everything. 

They have also changed in that they are more aware of socially acceptable things. Their origin stories have been edited quite a bit from when we first saw the family. They also skirt around the IBLP issues and the ATI program in Big Sandy. Some of that is editing, but there is a part that is Gil and Kelly Jo being revisionists. Even Gil's former career has been changed many times, as he originally said he quit. Then it was he was laid off. Then it was that he was about to be laid off so he quit. And I think it's back to them saying he was laid off. 

The dance thing is one of the latest. Early on they were anti dancing. Not as militaristic as say the Duggars, but still against it. A few years ago Trace wanted to try out for Dixie Stampede. He had to dance to do so and was left to his own devices with Kelly Jo simply saying they didn't dance. Josie's dress was tight in the arms and the consultant mentioned dancing. Kelly Jo couldn't have corrected her fast enough. Now Carlin wants to dance at her wedding and suddenly it's A-okay and the family is excited for Gil and Carlin to take lessons together. 

None of these are super serious, but they do show that the family is more aware of how they are portrayed and public opinion. 

Same thing with the younger girls spilling the beans that Nathan had a girlfriend (Ashley) before that was shown on the show.  It's clear that they are coached on what they can and can't say. There are many times they correct each other like that. And there are other times you can tell Kelly Jo or someone is off to the side because they look from the interviewer (producer) to another person before they speak on something that might be troublesome. 

[Season 8 Discussion]

9 hours ago, sATL said:

I was just getting used to the Bates getting married outside of a traditional brick and mortar church. they seemed to have made " church venue shopping" as a thing that their brides must do. 

" Our Castleton Experiences start at $9,500, and include the following: ... " ( link )

Looks like Castelton Farms is a place where you have to use their caterers.. so Carlin is having a sit down formal dinner , or from a specific list of passed  hors d'oeuvres ? I guess Kelli's sister can bring in her  homemade cake (s) - but it looks like a place that would charge a fee to cut and serve it.

Not sure if Gil's fatherly pride would allow the groom's family to chip in on the wedding... rehearsal dinner - yeah, the intended couple - yeah, UP Network Inc - yeah,.  this is the same father that seems very boastful that he & Kelli have "saved" a certain amount for each daughter's wedding.  I sure would like to know what savings instrument they used

I used to do a bit of event planning (not weddings) and can tell you that places like that are selling packages. They make their money off that and not the rentals, as  everything has a cost that is much more than you would spend if you could find the vendors yourself. They have a list of vendors who are endorsed or sanctioned by the facility. This includes photographers, caterers, florists, bakers, caterers, wedding planners, equipment rentals, etc. Even the chalkboards, fabric drapings, signs, etc. will come from a catalog. 

I'm guessing the required vendors situation will be one of those things that Castleton Farms will look the other way on in order to make a deal with the family and UP. It'll get glossed over so as not give the wrong impression, but they will "save money" by not having to conform to some of the details. And somewhere an event coordinator at Castleton Farms will have a coronary watching these people drive homemade stuff in on pick up trucks through a well manicured lawn and seeing Kelly Jo throw around chicken salad while acting stressed.