DianeDobbler

Rafael doesn't seem like such a dreamer to me. The times he hung out at Jane's, driving around with her, etc., wasn't really convincing. He's the most believable as the hotel guy.

the show runner describing Luisa and Rose as a great love story bugs me. Yes, it's a telenova. But it's a telenova with heart. I don't believe Luisa can remain a sympathetic character and still be in a relationship with Rose. I agree with the slate author that I wish the show runners would stop trying to get us to care about Sin Rostro. It's a great evil crime lord/kingpin name. It's great that Rose was Sin Rostro. To simultaneously try to play it as a real love story with a character we're expected to care about doesn't work.

I still maintain Michael faked his death to protect his family, and tricked Rose (this show gives us limited information all the time - including holding back on flashbacks, and holding back on context for moments like a "realization"). And whether or not Jane knows is going to be a mystery for a short time in S3. Or at least, it sets up perfectly for that to be the case. We got enough emphasis from Nadine beseeching Michael to understand that Sin Rostro gets to people through their families. Rogelio/Xo - this story is unconvincing from Rogelio's point of view. The man has had 24 years to become a father with someone in circumstances where he could be there from birth - he didn't do anything. He's not taking steps now. Sure, he supposedly wants a baby with Xo, so it can be wanked that he's been hoping she'd change her mind. But that doesn't account for the fact he hit fortysomething and still had no bio child, nor did he adopt any. So I don't find his desire to raise a child from birth, believable. He's much more believable as a loveable "Papa." Sure, men are biologically capable of reproducing for a longer time than women, although they, too, risk having a less than optimum outcome if they wait until mid life and beyond. But, their longer period of fertility does absolutely nothing for mortality, and if Rogelio has a kid when he's middle aged, he'll be a senior citizen when the kid is graduating from college, and just in general have a less than vibrant parental experience and an even less vibrant grandfather experience. This is the second show converted from a telenova (the other being Ugly Betty) where the writers didn't follow the premise, and there were fans who showed up to see the premise fulfilled (that the poor, but strong and loving girl, would get with the "poor" little rich boy, teaching him about life along the way), and were frustrated when that wasn't the story they got. I believe the issues here are the original telenovas were short form, and American situation comedies can go on forever. The other issue is both Ugly Betty and Jane the Virgin are tackling the premise from a strongly feminist viewpoint, which serves as a block to the Cinderella story behind the premise. Sure, the whole "poor little rich man-boy" deal glosses up the Cinderella fantasy so people can have it both ways - She gets a rich, handsome playboy, tames his playboy ways, fulfills the Cinderella story all the while it is spun as HER rescuing him. Still, it's a huge Cinderella fantasy with tremendous vicarious ego gratification. For me, another issue was that with Ugly Betty and with this show, the casting of the playboy was off. Both actors in the rich guy role lacked that irresistible charisma and charm that made that sort of character plausible. For me, Gina Rodriguez/Jane is the leading lady. There are three leading men (Rogilio, Michael, Rafael). Arguably, Xo and Alba have even larger, more important roles than the leading men. And of course there's Petra, whose role has been expanded. So essentially I don't see this show as having one leading man.

What they did to Petra is basically what happens to people with ALS - another reason it's so horrifying. I want her to get over Rafael already, and her sister sleeping with him just prolongs it. Surely there's a rich guy out there who'd be into a gorgeous, uptight woman with twin girls who knows her way around the Miami hotel scene and high finance - a rich guy who wasn't a depraved, violent criminal sleazebag. Everyone Petra has been with is so incredibly sleazy, Rafael looks heroic by comparison, and he's not. I want her to get some kind of break, ever since she survived her ordeal with Zaz and only got that on-site hug with Michael as comfort. I don't expect Rafael to get the slightest suspicion about Anezka/Petra. Probably Jane will figure it out/make the save. As to Jane's virginity The 1980s soap opera Falcon Crest had Richard Channing fake his death to protect his family. He allowed himself to be assassinated by his enemy. Here, Michael has made enemies of high up people in organized crime, and Nadine has pointed out a bunch of times they get you through their family. Maybe he wore a Kevlar vest and tricked Rose somehow (or a squib, and Rose's gun had blanks). Maybe Jane's in on it, or she isn't. Michael's been undercover before. This could be something Michael and law enforcement set up between the wedding and the wedding night, after they figured out Susanna was Rose.

Hated this episode, thought the "Bachelorette" premise was uninteresting, and I think Jane the Virgin is better than "I love both of you" or "I choose myself" - the twin sisters of triangle copouts. Yes, you have two leading men. Inevitably, one is going to work better than the other. The show should own it and also figure out where to go from there when the woman makes her choice. "In love with both" is a rip off. Yes, writers want to preserve every option but IMO that simply hurts the characters even if it enables plot. Lord knows enough shows have found themselves in this position for writers to figure out something other than an opt out as a resolution.

Wow, of course. I was trying to figure out what the plan would be, but of course that's the plan. Ever since Petra had the twins, I've figured she and Rafael would be end game. Jane the Virgin's premise is striving working class girl from close family is mistakenly inseminated/impregnated by sperm sample from rich, handsome playboy obviously on the other side of the social divide. Clearly there's your story. To have his ex-wife discover there's a spare sample, successfully impregnate herself and give birth to twin girls while working with her ex in the same business seems to bizarrely dilute the premise of the series, unless they wanted to do that. I am not a Justin Baldani fan. Never saw him before Jane the Virgin (nor did I know any of the younger leads, for that matter). I certainly hope the finale is NOT a renewal of the triangle. For one thing, as engaging as Jane may be, I don't buy that two men would be irrevocably in love with her the rest of their lives in this way. When I started the show, and Michael was initially shown to be a bit controlling under that boy next door exterior, I figured he'd soon be history, or else a villain, and of course they'd develop Rafael/Jane. I was so convinced, I even guessed that Michael would hop on his partner, Nadine, behind Jane's back at some point, out of frustration over the pregnancy and his jealousy of her bond with Rafael. So that is to say I didn't start out pro-Michael and anti-Rafael, but after binge-watching, I realize I just think Baldani is so miscast. Even his looks don't do it for me. I know he's got that "type" down, but there's something off about the whole thing for me, where it goes up to the line of goofy/smarmy/stupid. He's hopeless at this genre, and very inept at the extremes - the anger, the emotion, and especially the funny - of the genre. I'm not sure Brett Dier has loads of natural chemistry with Gina Rodriguez either, but he's so damn charming, he has chemistry with everybody, which puts Michael ahead of the game. I think his character is much more entertaining than Rafael's, and has the best job. I think the show would be less without Dier, and if they broke up him and Jane, there's nothing to tie him to the rest of the show. Rafael has Mateo tying him to Jane, and Petra has the twins tying her to Rafael, but Michael doesn't have that. It gets ridiculous after a point to re-set a triangle, and I don't believe in this one at this point. I have to say the "type" - the wounded, rich, lonely playboy, has been done to death on shows and rarely successfully. Often due to casting problems.

I just jumped on this show and am binge-watching. Love it. Gina Rodriguez is fantastic, but in terms of relationships, I think there are three actors on this show who have chemistry with everything that moves: Yael Grobglas (Petra), Jaime Camil (Rogerio) and Brett Dier (Michael). I think Justin Baldoni (Rafael) is kind of a dud, and not pretty enough for me either, but his story with Petra works because of Grobglas. Also, he seems more relaxed with her than with Rodriguez, in terms of acting, but that's parsing it. Rogerio, for all his childish, cartoonish ways, has the charisma and charm needed in Rafael, that Rafael is kind of missing. It's weird for me that in two telenova-inspired shows where a poor girl was vis a vis a rich guy, this, and Ugly Betty, the rich, handsome, charming guy was the weak link (IMO). While I don't think she has automatic chemistry with everyone on the show, Rodriguez is an EXTREMELY generous actor. When I started watching, I thought Jane's mom would begin to get on my nerves, but she's terrific. I love how both of Jane's parents are kind of childlike, with a Jane parenting Xiomara, Xiomara parenting Rogerio dynamic. although Jane and Xiomara have more evened out now. P.S.- after watching more of the show, I like the Petra/Jane dynamic even more. The yelling and screaming when Petra was in labor - the actresses looked as if they were having a blast. Rodriguez was hilarious reading her novel aloud and Grobglas was very touching with Petra's crazy labor. I don't keep tabs too much on who does the worst things, or if a relationship is healthy or not, because there is so much plot we can't really hold characters to real life standards. I agree that at the very start of the show, in the early episodes, it appeared as if Michael was going to be controlling, particularly wanting her - telling her - to quit her job. I was very grateful that the show had Jane refuse. At the same time, I thought the montage showing us what Michael was afraid of with a baby was hilarious, and subsequently he really has become a major hero with a lot of personal growth. I don't see how he is boring - he's great looking, he's hilarious, and he's a smart, daring detective who has achieved a bunch of rescues - Mateo, Rogelio, Petra (Petra mostly saved herself but he was the only person during the Zaz ordeal from whom she got an ounce of support and comfort). I think the Michael/Rafael thing is that to many people, any choice other than Rafael seems to make the premise of the show pointless - poor girl vis a vis poor little rich boy/playboy. Why set that up as the foundation story if it's not going to pay off? I find that shows, in the end, tend to just pay off the premise - even Ugly Betty sort of did despite what, to me, was zero chemistry or plausibility between the US version of Daniel and Betty. Here, the wild card is Petra's twins. There is always the possibility we'll find out the sample wasn't Rafael's, I guess, but if they are his, why would the show make Petra pregnant, bonding her forever with Rafael as much as Jane? In terms of romantic relationships, the leading romance in this show is a quad. Both Petra and Jane have Rafael's babies. I could see a switch-out Petra/Michael and Rafael/Jane, but the show hasn't done much with Petra/Michael. The show has done more with Rafael/Michael. I see some sort of quad family dynamic in the end with the original couples back together.

Must say, I thought Anna Camp was terrific, and wish she were playing Jacqueline. When she was on Mad Men, I thought she was a complete flatline, so I was surprised to see how talented she was here.

I did a binge watch of this season and found most of it really really forced. There were times the music was so insistent, it reminded me of awful comedies that get a loud, overly-animated score to sort of cue the audience to laugh and to create fake energy in the scenes. I talked to a guy friend about Tina Fey's poop joke fixation. One episode had Jacqueline in silhouette in a golden field, and when it was pointed out she was lost and she started off in the right direction, she goes "Oh, I pooped over there" I knew immediately, before the opening credits, that Fey had written it. And as soon as Tina Fey joined as the shrink, there were 3-4 straight poop jokes as soon as her character got in the Uber car. I think eight in total in that episode. So I'm having mixed feelings. I know Tina Fey understands comedic rhythm, I loved 30 Rock, but like a lot of people who've done comedy forever, some of the schtick feels tired. Anyway, my guy friend said "Maybe she just thinks that stuff is funny - I do." and that made me feel better, instead of feeling distracted that Tina has a scat fixation. But it still throws me off. Too much of it. Jacqueline/Jane Krakowski just don't fit in this show. I don't believe it. This is the type of show where the situations are farcical but core characters should be believable, and I don't believe her. Her comedy was perfect for an affected, narcissistic actress. So here they have her as a narcissistic ex-trophy wife, but I'm not feeling it and when she comes on screen the show drags. Her new love story with that guy is instant ff. Blech. Also thought the writing for Kimmy was off. Too forced. I could predict the rhythm of everything she said - the reasonable tone of voice then the SHOUT. But, I agree that underpinning this is what could be a strong handling of a kidnapping/hostage experience; probably difficult to treat in a farce, but it's working for me so far. The framework is good, the actually dialogue and rhythm has been grating. So a lot of it feels mechanical. THIS is the rhythm of comic delivery. THIS is how you set up and pay-off a joke. Here's the human moment. Here's the comedy kicker to cut away from that moment and get back into the comedy for the show's tag. Made of utter win is Mikey and Titus. Titus is the show's MVP, he and Mikey have great chemistry, Mike Carlsen plays Mikey to perfection, is 100% believable, and his line readings kill me. Such as explaining to his mom why he hasn't seen Theresa's baby (it's not born yet). "Actually that's a very good excuse."

I am hopeful that Ray and Marnie are now acknowledged to be a failed idea, as Ray carrying a frayed guitar case, and Desi still being in the picture (and Marnie's jealousy of his girlfriend) suggests perhaps Desi is not going to go the way of Jessa's starter husband. After all, it's not as if Marnie is markedly less narcissistic/immature than Desi, and the actors have chemistry (I think the guy playing Desi is really funny). I get it with Jessa and Adam. I liked the idea of the two of them mellowing each other out, but I guess Lena doesn't like that idea, and by having them act out and be volatile with each other, she basically wanted to show it's a serious relationship engaging real parts of themselves, it's passionate and now there's more at stake because they both recognize it's intense and there's real caring. Okay. I like them though. Lena has said that "despite what people think" Jessa isn't the sort of person who'd sleep with a friend's ex, but Adam is (I guess the kind of ex boyfriend that would sleep with an ex-girlfriend's good friend), so that's why they had him pursue Jessa. I have only one issue with Lena Dunham, which is her story about her one-year old sister, which can't possibly have happened in real life, and which was unsettling. HOWEVER, better that it didn't happen in real life (if you read the story, absolutely impossible for a one-year old both cognitively and literally). BUT, I absolutely love love lover her for speaking out in support of Dylan Farrow immediately, for standing behind it, for taking on Woody Allen, and for generally handling fame and her public persona well, and putting her name behind really good feminist causes. We need her and I like her. I also think a lot of the media slammed her for her nudity because they thought she was narcissistic while not having the looks to justify her narcissism, and that's why we got stuff like the unretouched Vogue pictures. "She's not pretty enough to be naked! She's not pretty enough to be in Vogue!" For that matter, and upon reflection, I also respect Anna Wintour. I read a book on her and she came across as competitive in at least one friendship, but otherwise just completely driven in terms of her editorial vision for fashion (when she's a trust fund baby and didn't really have to work at all). I like that Wintour, for all her hauteur and her froideur, puts people like Dunham on the cover of Vogue.

Stick a Dunkin Donuts in the middle of any hipster enclave anywhere and it will crush the coffee shops around it BUT, if there's no Dunkin Donuts nearby, you CAN thrive as a "real working person's coffee shop." That place will attract actual working people, and it will also attract hipsters who want to patronize a "real working person's coffee shop." So that marketing idea made sense.

Adam has sort of turned into a romantic, or maybe just looks like one on this show, because he embraces responsibility. If it were me, and I had a budding acting career to manage - and even if he's making good money when he works, there's the need to constantly get out there because there's no security in the business - I'd find having my unstable sister living downstairs to be a pain in the ass, draining important energy. Adam is emotionally responsible - he needs to focus on his own stuff, but he's not narcissistic. I felt that he was anxious about his sister, but not especially put out that he had an infant on his hands. He wanted everything set up so he could care for her, but he wasn't pushing her onto Jessica to create more freedom for himself. I don't know if I 100% buy his apparent evolution from the guy who did whatever he did to that girlfriend he had after Hannah, to the guy who is able to be warm and laugh and be intimate with Jessa despite their "bad sex" at their first attempt, but he has. I could see him being the marrying type. Adam has sort of turned into a romantic, or maybe just looks like one on this show, because he embraces responsibility. If it were me, and I had a budding acting career to manage - and even if he's making good money when he works, there's the need to constantly get out there because there's no security in the business - I'd find having my unstable sister living downstairs to be a pain in the ass, draining important energy. Adam is emotionally responsible - he needs to focus on his own stuff, but he's not narcissistic. I felt that he was anxious about his sister, but not especially put out that he had an infant on his hands. He wanted everything set up so he could care for her, but he wasn't pushing her onto Jessica to create more freedom for himself. I don't know if I 100% buy his apparent evolution from the guy who did whatever he did to that girlfriend he had after Hannah, to the guy who is able to be warm and laugh and be intimate with Jessa despite their "bad sex" at their first attempt, but he has. I could see him being the marrying type.

Doll Eyes, if that Helvetica coffee place - the hipster lounge across from Ray's place - is within a stone's throw of Williamsberg, it and ten others could burn down without putting a dent in the remaining supply of crunchy, fashionably shabby/reclaimed, colourfully decrepit hangouts. I want to know where his place is meant to be in Brooklyn. If he's in a hipster place, one more hipster place isn't going to hurt his business. He'd be drowning in them. If he's in a "normal" part of Brooklyn, then there wouldn't be enough hipsters to keep Helvetica going, and his place would still have plenty of regulars. In Williamsberg there's about four hipster restaurants/pastry places/you name it per square yard. I like Girls, and I especially like that set design makes New York apartments look like NY apartments (Laird's and Caroline's is totally on point, that cramped studio unit Marnie lived in was as well), but there's stuff like Ray's storyline that makes me go ???? Not to mention all of them would have to have trust funds or they'd long since been driven out of the city based on what we're shown of how little of a living they earn.

Add Phillip Seymour Hoffman to list of addicts who gained weight.

A side observation - Jessa may have never held a baby, but Jemima Kirke so very clearly was comfortable holding the baby they maybe should have figured out a way to make it look awkward. She was particularly adept at keeping a firm, secure hold on the baby's core with one arm, while picking up the phone with the other, and then she neatly swung the baby's legs into her lap as she sat down. Most TV babies are cast for placid dispositions, but Kirke obviously knew how to keep that baby secure/stable.

Lm, I only have a guess. First, to Lena Dunham, Allison Williams is the other lead of the show. That may be true technically, but it certainly isn't supported by audience response, IMO (ratings aren't great overall anyway). The guy who plays Ray (I ALWAYS forget his name!) is one of the core men on the show, and a terrific actor. Jessa and Shoshanna are less important than Marnie/Hannah, especially Shoshanna (who wasn't originally intended to be a regular). So basically when the actor who played Charlie quit, they "gave" Marnie, Ray, cause Marnie rates over Shosh. But IMO they have such DOA anti-chemistry the ONLY reason Lena Dunham would force it through is because of hierarchy, because it works on no other level whatsoever. Seldom seen two actors this disconnected. That's my theory. Kind of OT, but I saw the same theory work on Friends, where only four of the six were considered romantic leads, and Phoebe/Joey were left to their own devices. They ended up pairing the romantic lead four off with each other, even though, IMO, among that four, some had better chem with Phoebe or Joey. But they couldn't go there without leaving one of the romantic four the odd man or woman out, and hierarchy said no. I don't know what the future holds for Jessa and Adam but I'd understand shyness surfacing in a relationship that's more reality based and developing true intimacy/vulnerability versus 99% of Jessica's other relationships with men, which were often a platform for exhibitionism and acting out.

Another piece of it for me is that there are parts of Lena that are genuinely not mainstream, and go well beyond quirky. If you remember the story Dunham told about her baby sister, the fact that the story she presented as autiobiographical is impossible (no way her sister, aged one, had the dexterity OR the mental development to enact that scenario) means it's a lie - and it is a lie because it's impossible for a one year old - so instead of that story being an account of something that actually happened, it's a glimpse into Dunham's very particular imagination, some of which is seriously off the grid and disturbing. And next to it, there's what appears to be the majority of Lena Dunham that's ON grid (accessible, even if not relatable) by virtue of her being smart, empathetic, funny (I think the combination of her acting as Hannah, the writing for Hannah, and the downright trolling she sometimes does of the audience as Hannah can be hysterical), relatable, feminist, etc. So it's this combination of a reality-based, seemingly accessibly off-beat, talented person, and then the WHOA - WTF side, that is ALSO authentic, but something a whole lot harder for people not her to access. And she puts both aspects of herself in the show. Not sure though, since she did share the little sister story, that she grasps how little other people can access THAT side or know what it's supposed to mean (if you guys don't know the story about her little sister at age one, it can be googled I'm sure). As a milder example, using another comedy writer, a lot of me loved Tina Fey on 30 Rock, and found her hilarious, relatable, whip smart, etc., but then would be put off by a seeming recurrent preoccupation with scat references, as well as with her entire attitude towards sex and thought that often impacted the show negatively and worked against its organic development (even a show that's a joke machine, if it has characters, generally has organic character development).

I also like Shoshanna and Ray. The plot twist that had Ray fall madly in love with Marnie, want her and worship her turned me off to the show. They have anti-chemistry. I am cautiously optimistic based on the fact that Desi is still around despite the intention to divorce - that surprised me. And I'll spoiler tag in case someone doesn't want to know what was in the Ep. 9 preview:

Represent, AND there would be worry that she was going to get in trouble. Now it's more - oh, that repulsive Hannah inflicting herself on others when she's so repulsive. But if it were a hot blonde, as you said, behaving exactly the same way, there would be more worry that she was going to act out with the wrong person and get hurt, versus a whole lot of sympathy for the poor shmo who was afflicted with her unasked-for attentions. Hannah is acting kind of like a Jessa. I've known Jessas, although the one I've known pretty well most recently (before she grew out of her Jessa-ness) is not as selfish. She was, though, generous, beautiful and warm and charming, so was readily forgiven. But we're accustomed to seeing beautiful, reckless, inappropriate messes on television. We're not used to seeing unattractive, reckless, young, inappropriate female messes on television who are also arrogant and entitled. Jessa running around a rest stop in her pajamas and ending a relationship by text would just be classic Jessa. Whether we like her or not, it would be familiar. Recognizable. Hannah, it's like - GIRL. Where do you get the gall? You're not hot enough to play these games. So I guess the point is - a lot of this "What is the DEAL with Hannah?!!" doesn't deal with the looks issue honestly. There have been television characters as insufferable. I've bailed on shows at times because of these characters. But I've never been mystified by them. The hot asshole (or charismatic asshole) is a prevalent type. Those TV critics who are all "What explains Hannah? What sort of character is she supposed to be?" aren't honest about the fact that they think she lacks the looks to get away with it, and where did she learn she COULD get away with it anyway? Society doesn't enable that behavior from a woman like her.

I liked the article; I figured it would get to gender, and it did. Hannah doesn't appear to have any of the attributes that would "entitle" her, as a fictional character, to be this self-absorbed. I guess the only attribute she has is youth. It's almost like for women characters, there has to be a trade-off - usually some kind of beauty - to barter for being a narcissist. It's like - how does she get to be a narcissist - she's unattractive, overweight, gross, selfish, and she is still so ENTITLED! I thought about a male equivalent and came up with Seinfeld's George. George would steal a housekeeper's tip, I'm sure, just like Hannah did. George was less confrontational, wouldn't flash people, and he dressed better than Hannah, but he's just as selfish and self-serving. I guess there's the unreality that in real life, a woman with as little as Hannah has to "trade", in the conventional sense, would likely not be able to get away with what she gets away with, because there's not much in it for the other person. So it feels a little unreal. However, Lena Dunham is a good comic actress and I think this is entertaining and probably a good thing that she's doing this. Sometimes people with a LOT of nerve do get away with more stuff - there's this near-grudging respect for people who don't know when they've crossed the line, and there's always people who will keep on showing up for them. So anyway, I think the idea of Hannah is a good thing. It took me til Season 3 to get there, and I had to do a lot of inventory to get there.

I just remembered Hannah's Basic Instinct moment. So that's three bizarre sexual acting out events towards the end of this season. Girl on girl. Flashing her instructor and apparently not wearing underwear at work. The Ray bj. Dunham is definitely going to have all that mean something.

Remember when Hannah's OCD was a thing, and Lena Dunham claimed she'd set it up before it became an important plot point? I think she's not good at setting that sort of thing up, so it's really on her writing, BUT. This season, there was the episode when Hannah went down on the female yoga teacher - out of character as she's never been shown to be bi-curious before. Now she's going down on Ray, which is as inappropriate as it gets. Wonder if this oral sex-ual acting out is setting something up and is not just random Hannah disgustingness.

I think Hannah is never lonely because, as cliche'd as it is, she puts herself out there. She's not especially charming, nor is she an especially great friend or girlfriend in the long haul, but she's pretty aggressive about making her presence felt everywhere she goes. It's a numbers game. That's going to turn off some people, but others will just go along with it. There's plenty of people happy to let someone else do the work. Adam's sister is sort of similar, in her own way. Again, it's just playing the numbers. I think I read somewhere that Warren Beatty, in his heyday, would hit on everyone. So even if 70% turned him down, 30% said yes, and that ends up a big number. Hannah hardly goes anywhere just to observe. That turns some people off, but she makes more connections than someone who'd lay back and process something for a long time before getting in there. I agree that the set up of "Fran isn't the type to like it when her girlfriend shows flashes her privates in school." is not a thing. Nobody is that type unless they're bent. And there's nobody in the normal world who is "This is how *I* am. I'm a flash my privates type of woman!" I do think it's unrealistic, and she'd have gotten fired for doing it. I still think Lena Dunham is keeping Ray for Marnie, which I HATE, so it's a pleasant surprise for Desi to return. I want someone to take the hit for Ray.

Sweet Summer, now that you mention it, I think it's been two seasons since Shoshanna told the other three they haven't accomplished much in the four years since college, making them each 26. They should be 28 now. No way is Marnie 25 1/2. Maybe we were meant to take that as a lie, with the 1/2 her concession to the lie.

I agree that Lena Dunham often begs the question when it's time to break people up, instead of just letting them break up. Desi didn't have to become a complete joke. I agree Jessa and Adam aren't a fantasy. I've always enjoyed Jessa, although I completely get Jemima Kirk's critique of her - but for me she's SUCH a recognizable type, down to the looks that help her get away with it. I just feel she has completely humanized Adam, made him much more accessible, gotten him to crawl out from up his own butt. They fight, etc., but they also crack each other up. They can't really maintain their individual "mystique" around each other, and I think that's a good thing. I also thought it was well played that their first time having sex was bad, but as it turned out, their connection goes further than that.