DianeDobbler

I'm so glad Melanie Mayron is continuing as Professor Donaldson. When she was first introduced they were sort of satirizing a feminist scholar (her self-published book on gender), but as she's continued on the show she's more three dimensional. She's been very fair with Jane. Jane always knows where she stands. I liked that we found out she goes to parties, and I liked that Jane hugged her. I've read a bunch of interviews with Mayron - she's known Gina Rodriguez a long time (Gina would sometimes babysit her kids) and Gina got her on "Jane" as a director. From there the show offered her the Professor.

I did a google search and in Miami you can get a 1 bedroom for under 1k (just under), but if the place has fresh paint, bricked glass, well appointed kitchen and everything in just renovated condition plus the balcony, the studios start at close to 2k and then it goes up from there. I'm pretty sure they used some of the set from Rogelio's old apartment (remember when he was kidnapped) and/or the layout of the hotel room where the Villenuevas stayed while Abuela's ceiling leak was being repaired. In any event, it was jarring to see it painted in the hotel colors as well. The entire thing was not what you'd expect when a young couple tight on money downsizes. Even though it's meant to be a one bedroom, it "reads" as much more spacious and open than the house they had.

I didn't catch so much that Michael found Catalina hot - in fact, his irritation at her presence was pretty convincing. But objectively, she is, so he knew that would be what Rafael would go for. She's pretty stereotypical so far, fast-talking, been everywhere, can relate to everything, knows about everything - it's way OTT and only someone as young as Jane would be taken in. However, knowing this show, they're not going to go some 100% predictable route with her. I expect her plan will have a twist. The actress playing her is very Finola Hughes. And the character keeps talking to the point you never get to know her. You can't get past the nonstop flow. They need to step it up with Petra. Her story in this episode didn't make a lot of sense to me. I know Ricardo Chavira only had a couple of seconds, but is this the same dude that played Eva Longoria's husband? I thought his charisma or charm would be instant, but bleh. I'm glad they're dealing with Rogelio wanting kids - the sooner he gets a move on, the faster we can get past it. But it still makes no sense whatsoever that he's done nothing about a child through twenty-five years, three marriages, and countless paramours. But NOW he wants one. Come on, show. Michael and Jane's new digs look more expensive than their old place. Are we supposed to believe it's cheaper because it's an apartment? Because it's swankier, has more expensive details, better appliances, AND a balcony. Don't tell me an apartment in Miami with a balcony and two bedrooms is a thousand dollars a month.

Haven't seen the episode. Bruce is played by Ricardo Chavira? LOVE him. I remember the early days of Desperate Housewives. It was clear Chavira was meant to be the somewhat older, slightly gone to seed but very successful husband of a younger spitfire who was running around on him because, face it, she was way too hot for him. Then it turned out he was hilarious and smart, and had great chemistry with Eva Longoria. When I'd tune in, anything he did was always my favorite part of the show.

Okay, I will keep my fingers crossed, but I think simple story telling impact would NOT have her pretend to be Anezka when she woke up. IMO that didn't play at all, and now it's almost hard to make up for it. You don't get the right set up for a pay off too often.

I'm mad at the Petra stuff too. I feel ripped off. They shortchanged the character and her fans. Let's see, Michael nearly dies from a gunshot. People emote over it, and when he survives, he gets his moment to process it, react, and be consoled. Rogelio is kidnapped by his stalker, she almost kills him, and once he's rescued and back to "normal", it's allowed to back up on him and he has an emotional reaction/seeks comfort from Jane. The same is true for all the other characters when they've had moments of real crisis and pain. Petra's predicament was no more telenova than the others', but we get ZERO pay off. They also shortchanged by having Jane be the first to realize Petra wasn't Petra, but then have Jane play no part in Petra's rescue. They set us up to expect more, then railroaded through this b.s. For me, this is because the show is prioritizing its plotting and its character positioning over paying off Petra's stories. They manage to do both with other characters - set up future plot, re-position characters - without depriving the audience. With Petra, they blow over the payoff completely. I am positive they could have come up with a way for her to receive consolation from Rafael and Jane and keep her sister on without using a pretext to completely steamroll over the payoff by having Petra claim she's Anezka when she wakes up. And only confess the truth in a vicious whisper at the very end. They softened Petra last season and showed us her human side, but didn't pay it off at all. NOW the show pretends - and they ARE pretending - that all of us were waiting for her bitch side to return. NO, we were waiting for some kind of at least LIP SERVICE acknowledgment and pay off from her ordeal. Maybe a little gratitude for Jane or Jane being horrified, maybe consolation from Rafael. I believe Rafael and Petra are probably end game, but they want to keep them apart for now, so Petra can play the antagonist and Rafael can have other relationships that create conflict with Jane/Michael/Mateo. I get the character positioning. That is not an excuse to constantly blow past any pay off for that character and treat her like a pawn and not a fan favorite. These writers are talented enough to both pay things off and get the characters positioned where they need them to be for future stories. They didn't bother. They cheated us and pretended it was a pay off (The bitch is back).

Most Jane/Rafael fans wish Michael would disappear, but he must be better for ratings than Rafael or the show wouldn't have gone in the direction it did. The right direction, IMO. Jane's advisor - I love Melanie Mayron on this show (she's also a director for Jane the Virgin). The relationship with Jane is very gruff, but I respect the professor, and, IMO, she gives Jane good advice.

I don't think we'll see Sam again at all. I think he was a plot device to show how strongly she was drawn to Michael. Sam is a guy she crushed on for seventeen straight months, seemed to have a lot in common with Jane, he was thrilled when he asked her out, and yet when Michael came along he was able to displace Sam. That is what Sam was for. He's not another triangle situation. I don't think this is a spoiler - the show runner said she was sick to death of playing the triangle. So I think they are moving on from it. I read an interview with her right before watching the premiere, to see if I could get a hint as to Michael living or dying. Everything she said about Rafael's upcoming story made me think/hope Michael would live. She said general things about changing dynamics, etc. Actually, it seems as if it sets up for more story for Rafael than Jane and Michael, but I guess we'll see. I'm very eager to see what's going on with Petra/Anezka, Rafael. I think that's going to drag on awhile longer. My big MEH from the interview is that the show runner is all about doing a big romantic story for Luisa/Rose. She has said this in every single interview, and is super enthused. However, her enthusiasm was another hint that Michael lives. You can't get people invested in a love story where one of the people murdered a beloved leading character in cold blood. I actually liked "Suzanne" better than Rose.

Breathing a sigh of relief that Michael lived. The way the show had set itself up seemed to point to he HAD to live, otherwise you had Rafael in a triangle with Aneshka and Petra, and presumably comforting then pursuing Jane. I didn't believe they'd set up Aneshka/Petra if Michael weren't going to live. Phew. That said, please already - Rogelio doesn't want to be a father again or he'd have gotten around to it with one of his many wives or many girlfriends at some point in the 24 years since Jane's birth. And as for Luisa/Rose, in about three interviews now, the show runner has probably expressed more excitement for what she wants to do with the two of them than she has for any other aspect of the show. I love Yara Martinez, but please no. (Although her continual focus on her plans for a Luisa/Rose story arc also suggested Michael would live, as I couldn't imagine that being valid if she'd murdered Michael).

I think they were trying to play Piper a bit as a poseur in the early episodes -you know, she'd assert herself, and then be all "Did they buy it?" Or - "Wow, I have a reputation?" It IS a pose - she tried to be tough in a couple of spots, but it's not her core. She's nowhere near tough enough to control genuinely tough people over trivial things. MAYBE if it's really important to Piper so she feels it in her gut, but the every day "Don't mess with me" stance isn't something she can pull off. I rewatched the sister thing with Morello and I still think the sister was being "everything's fine" but evasive. I'd think something was up myself. Her demeanor changed from her prior visit with Morello, she just didn't sound genuine when she talked to her. Maybe that was a red herring so we'd see where Morello's attitude was coming from, but *I* was feeling duplicity from the sister before it was clear that was Morello's read too. Lori Petty was absolutely fantastic in the greenhouse scenes. Read an interview with Uzo Aduba about characters like Suzanne and Lolly, and she said some of the focus of the show is - why are they there? Why is someone like Suzanne, who is frequently not in possession of herself, in a conventional prison? Digression: For me, a big flaw with the show is the absence of parents/connections, and the absence of the institution being AWARE that some of the inmates have connections and affluence. I wouldn't mess with someone whose dad was a general. I can't imagine Poussey not letting her dad know she was beaten to a pulp. Piper may just have upper middle class entitled relatives, but they're the sort of relatives who can cause problems and cause a letter of inquiry to be sent. I also can't imagine Suzanne's parents being - well, off she goes to a conventional corrections facility, at least it's minimum. They know her - they know she could get in further trouble in that environment, and it seems to me would petition the court for reclassification. The prison wouldn't block that reclassification either - Suzanne takes a lot of resources. I also have issues with this many minimum security inmates being dragged off to psych. Anyway, a basic self-serving corporation like MCC, and all those who worked for it, would know who among the inmates had outside connections, money, potential influence and who didn't, and it would influence how those inmates were treated. I don't know why they had Nicky relapse - she corrected course pretty fast. She also looked great and healthy - or the actress did, and that made the "back on drugs" thing feel less plausible. Didn't get enough of the two guards who are dating - they're hilarious, and contribute way more to the show than the new bunch, just as actors. Don't know what you've got til its gone: BOY was I glad to see the last of Fig when she left. This season, after Caputo's corporate horror of a girlfriend (and how one note was she, as well as the dudebro in the dark red suit) I was all "Fig!" when she opened her door and invited Caputo in.

I'm still researching, but I don't believe minimum security has SHU. People don't "act out" as Suzanne acts out. What she does is far from acting out. Solitary isn't used for plain "acting out." It's also incredibly expensive to have an inmate in SHU. SHU is not a remedy. It is the single most psychologically damaging experience in the correctional system. SHU would exacerbate Suzanne's problems. Suzanne needs to be reclassified and transferred out of Litchfield. She's extremely dangerous.

I rewatched the Nicky/Lorna scene by the gate cause I blew by it the first time I watched the episode. I don't believe Nicky was baiting Lorna. She was tough loving Lorna. I think as soon as Lorna said "We're having a baby." Nicky immediately was back in the stairwell with Morello, after learning Morello was actually Christopher's stalker and not his fiance'. And how desperate Morello was, and how Morello NEW there was something was wrong with her, but didn't know how to fix it. Right away Nicky saw the crazy: "No, you're not." And then she confronted her, and pushed her, until Lorna was able to confront herself and admit she was back in the crazy. I think sex was long gone from Nicky's mind. Everybody else in that prison makes fun of Lorna, and/or ignores her when she gets on her "romantic", "aren't I lucky to have a man" jags. Nicky is the one who knows it's dangerous. Nicky knows Lorna's suffering and that Lorna can't stop herself. To me the gate was a complete callback to the stairwell. Nicky also fully accepts Lorna, and Lorna knows it. As soon as Lorna choked out that she was watching herself go crazy and couldn't stop it, some of the crazy buzz started to dissipate. And she verbally attacked Nicky with "Aren't you happy now!" and Nicky was all - come on, a drug addict liar isn't what happy looks like. She broke through Lorna's bubble. She doesn't see herself as superior to Lorna, or see Lorna as a joke, or ignore the fact that Lorna is in trouble - but she accepts her completely, definitely wants to help her because of the pain it causes Lorna - and I guess on some level, as an addict, she can relate to the utter escape from reality driving Lorna's fantasies and obsessions. I liked when the argument was over and Lorna stuck her arm through Nicky's. To me, that scene was sort of a pay it forward - Nicky being to Lorna what Red is to Nicky.

Well, from what I've read, a minimum security prison is no summer camp, so that part is certainly corporate spin, but it's also not a lot of what OITNB pretends it is. Just sliding this in here for those who don't know and are Samira Wiley fans, she has a new job - five episodes as the leading lady's therapist on FXX's "You're the Worst." One of the OITNB writers is writing it. Poussey really did nothing for me for 90% of her time on the show. I know the actress is Juillard-trained, but it felt as if she weren't ready for prime time. You don't have to be a massive talent, but IMO at least you need to have more chops than she showed in front of the camera (presence, or something). But anyhow, I really did like her work in Poussey's backstory, and apparently so did the "You're the Worst" writer - he cast her off her work on that.

Maritza plays Jane the Virgin's best friend on "Jane the Virgin". The whole time this OITNB season I kept thinking Lina was in jail. I know Maritza's been on OITNB before but I never really registered her.

I think Taylor Schilling was really tan when she got back - I remember photos of her vacationing in Hawaii with Uzo Aduba (Suzanne), Yael Stone (Morello) and Adrienne C. Moore (Cindy). I just think she turned very sallow - I noticed her skin as well, but it just seemed tired and the color kind of messed up, as opposed to broken out or any other kind of skin stuff. I don't have any big issues with the characters on the show - I think Piper and Alex "belong together" but that relationship can pace itself along in small doses as far as I'm concerned. They 'fit', but they're not that interesting. I probably enjoyed Alex/Lolly the most out of everything this season, and Morello the least - at least, Morello and her obsession. I don't think she back-slid. I think she never ever got a grip, despite last season's breakdown when she was exposed as a stalker. Whatever, it's incredibly annoying. I will shout out to the actress who played her sister, who made it BEYOND clear that she'd slept with Morello's husband (although WHY she did, God knows) while maintaining an innocent and reassuring façade. She just couldn't help being in a good mood, smiley and a bit evasive. Someone I just don't enjoy much at all is Taystee. The actress just doesn't do much for me. And, as ever, the meth girls can go, and so can the white supermacists. They're all equally irritating/uninteresting. Pennsatucky was the only one out of that crowd to make a mark, and that's because she's played by the best actress from what is meant to represent that sector. I don't MIND Suzanne so much, but I think the character has been mishandled, and the material she gets doesn't play to the actress's strengths. I think it's supposed to be adorable, endearing, scary, incredibly empathetic, etc. but I don't find her all that terrific in drama OR pathos. Despite her character's limitations, I enjoy her most when she gets to be smart in a subtle, sideways way, and when she's processing something. I always enjoy Cindy. I think Adrienne C. Moore has a lot of really good technique as an actress, as well as knowing how to be emotionally truthful, so she can handle a really wide range of material, and is funny without being cartoonish. Not enough of Nicky - her drug relapse seemed a little blink and you'll miss it - all better! But I love Natasha Lyonne. She looked great, almost like maximum security was a vacation.

I saw OJ: Made in America last week (excellent). He's in jail because he and a bunch of Keystone Cops pals decided that his old agent had OJ's stuff - mostly memorabilia. These arthritic old fogies did a stick up, including "nobody leave this room." That ("Nobody leave this room") was the basis for the kidnapping charge. The documentary is quite convinced OJ butchered his ex-wife Nicole, and Ron Goldman, and was wrongly acquitted. And is also convinced that the max, max, MAXIMUM sentence for the stick-up would, in almost anyone else's case, be two years (if jail time at all, and not probation), but this was obvious payback (like Al Capone going to prison for taxes), and the system made the massive sentence stick, and the massive sentence was bogus, and he's not in minimum. There's plenty of people in Litchfield who did some kind of half-assed, one off crime like a bumbling stick up. They'd have been plead down, particularly if they weren't PoC, or if the family had money or influence. Hard cases are not in minimum. We wouldn't get a "V" in minimum. V came in and acted like she was just sentenced to another 20 years. She can't have been sentenced to more than two, and with good behavior her butt would have been out of there sooner (setting aside that with V's history, I suspect what she did to get back in prison was not a minimum facility-type offense). Instead V sets about trying to coordinate a posse as if she's settling in for a decade. Made no sense. ETA, thanks Aja. What actually happened is I must have ff thru the final Doggett/Coates scene. I thought their last scene was a cliffhanger, when she kissed him. THAT's what bugged me. Knowing that Coates was shown to be the sort of person you described in your post was important to me, and I'm happy OITNB did it.

I side eye the entire concept of a minimum security prison being part of the "prison industrial complex" - which is what Orange is the New Black is attempting to demonstrate. It's not minimum security that is subject to profiteering. That's a problem with the show. Another problem with the show, unrelated to Poussey, is Coates. Rapists and date rapists and acquaintance rapists aren't cookie cutter, but they're not people who make a one-off bad mistake, reflect, feel badly, and resolve not to do it again. The deal with Coates is fantasy, wish fulfillment, and irresponsible. A guy who behaved as he behaved with Pennsatucky before and after the rape doesn't skew with a guy who'd say "I wish I'd treated you better and our first time had been genuine" - and means it. This just plays into myths about rapists as nice guys or well meaning guys who had a bad day or drank too much or whatever. I don't know where they're going with this. I like the actor. I remember the actor appeared to be a little pissed off when they made Coates a rapist, and I remember Tarin Manning (Pennsatucky) thought they had good chemistry, but this is not a responsible direction for this storyline. It's harmful.

Her community doesn't keep Suzanne in check. In the chronological year over which this show has taken place, she beat Poussey to a pulp. Her inability to control herself in meltdown, such as when she repeatedly hurled herself onto Bailey, pile driving him into Poussey, was a major contributor to Poussey's death. Although Bailey (and the prison) is responsible for it, that was still something Suzanne did because she's unable to control herself, and it did contribute to Poussey's death. We wouldn't hold an inconveniently placed inanimate object that contributed to Poussey's death RESPONSIBLE, but we'd recognize it shouldn't be there (bad example, but just making a point between contributing factors and responsibility). Besides, anyone who does that under stress/duress (pile drives themselves into another person, beats someone else to a bloody pulp) doesn't belong in general population. Besides, I don't think a community of prisoners keeping someone in check is meant to be part of the rationale for keeping a dangerous person in the general population. "Oh, she has friends." especially when they don't actually do that. When I googled minimum security prisons in the U.S., I also saw medium security prisons, and they, too, had more reasonable set ups than we see on Orange is the New Black (for example, a couple had small tvs in the room). The rooms are like dorm rooms, not huge warehouses divided into cinderblock cubicles. There's a white collar guy (forgot his name) who talked about his experience in minimum. He couldn't have a cell phone, and internet was restricted to the library. But the kitchen and cooking situation was never the crap we see on Orange is the New Block - a minimum security prison isn't where a corporation would try to make money by squeezing the nickel. Hell, it's probably not an investment an MCC would make, due to the fact that there's not enough population and the fact that it's MINIMUM means it has to meet some of the requirements of minimum, I'd imagine, or people's lawyers would be heard from big time. I also think it's absolutely ridiculous that a minimum security prison has SEG. I don't think so. Or a maximum security just down the hill.

No, a prison guard can't add time to an inmate's sentence. They CAN write a report, that, if believed by the parole board, can add time to your sentence. But again, how often does this happen in minimum security?

I think it was just being said that the "literal" (if not moral) cause of Poussey's death was Suzanne driving her body into Bailey. I don't think the knee in Poussey's back killed her - it was his fingers at the side of her neck. You could see the knuckles getting white the longer Suzanne's assault went on. Still, Suzanne beat the crap out of Poussey when she was following V. I think the show needs a little clarity about exactly what kind of prison dysfunction is it examining. I don't believe it's the minimum security prisons that suffer from massive overcrowding, numerous covered-up deaths, rapes, near-mortal beatings of inmates by other inmates, numerous near-death assaults on inmates, riots - and yet lax enough for inmates to hang out in greenhouses by themselves for hours. (With maybe one guard listening to an ipad - but seriously. He stayed like that during all the sawing and cutting? Never got up, stretched, moseyed around?). Or crawl into each other's bunks to fuck. This (Litchfield) is not the prison where they'd send a Martha Stewart/Paula Dean hybrid. The prison (Alderson) that housed Martha Stewart probably just loved that she exited wearing a poncho crocheted by an inmate and had a lot of constructive stuff to report about her stay. There are a lot of restrictions in minimum security from what I've read, and a social division where white collar sticks with/helps out white collar, and drugs sticks with/helps out drugs, but not this absolute soup of people who did some mild time (and didn't even get the sentence amped up - that's what's on their record, some mild-ish crime), and people who did whatever horror Suzanne's would-be romantic interest may have committed. There's people like Soso, and there's people like Lolly, who can kick someone to death? It's starting to bug me. Figure out what prison you are. It's like they want the freedoms of Alderson with the oppression and assault and death rate of the U.S. Penitentiary or a supermax prison. Hell, I just googled "minimum security women's prisons" and some have in-room tvs and in-room toilets (not some dorm-style bathroom). The campus and general freedoms of Litchfield are minimum security. The guards, the overstuffing, the building a new in-campus facility (on the MINIMUM SECURITY campus!) to overcrowd it further, the bathrooms, the food/cafeteria situation, the backgrounds, history and behaviors of many of the inmates - maximum security. The overcrowding storyline is, to me, bogus, because that's not a minimum security prison issue. For the reason that minimum security prisoners have short sentences. It's the max, where people are there for years, with more incoming, that gets stuffed. And then added to which with Litchfield, throw in people who wouldn't be in there at all - or at least never remain there. And Suzanne is one of those.

I, personally, think Uzo Aduba (Suzanne) is more effective playing smart-funny than crazy-funny, and better at both than playing rage or/and vulnerable. Suzanne is challenged, but smart in a bunch of ways. I think a favorite scene of mine was when she was being interrogated about V, and she was cooperative while also being alert for where the interrogation was going, and quite funny (smart) while doing it. But the bit with Poussey's death? And that doesn't even come into play in the investigation, that a heavyset inmate was constantly launching herself onto Bailey from a height (Bailey was on the ground himself, in a compromised position), driving him more forcefully into Poussey? There was nothing about that entire situation that was right, BUT, IMO that's mitigating in that particular event, and it's completely ignored. I do think Suzanne is dangerous and shouldn't be in general population. Furthermore I struggle as to how either she or Poussey remained in that weird, not-found-in-real-life synthesis of max, jail, and minimum security that describes Litchfield, given their respective family's resources. Suzanne doesn't belong in jail, nor does she belong in what passes for prison psych, since that's basically the lunatic asylum circa a couple of centuries ago. She belongs, IMO, in secured, assisted living. I know there are non-prison places like that. Furthermore, minimum security is not a walk in the park, but that shit that happens on this show doesn't happen in minimum security as a regular thing, and I think if everything that HAS happened in minimum security happened in real life to the extent it has on this show, a whole lot of lawyers would be suing with the assertion this is not the sentence their client received. The only difference between max and minimum seems to be more bars to get through in order to travel from Point A to Point B. There was quite a lot of writing to results this season, instead of earning it. I thought the camera did a 360 around Daya around five times too many at the season finale. This season also didn't pay enough attention to Taystee and Poussey to justify the ultra theatrical, ultra-choreographed moment when Taystee separated herself from the crowed, had her agony moment, and lay down beside Poussey's body. I was extremely distracted by how inorganic that looked and played. It just felt as if the show was up its own butt with that. On the upside, I enjoyed Poussey's backstory. I am not the biggest fan of Samira Wiley's acting, but I thought that backstory, and that night in NY and how she looked, and how she played it, suited her to a tee and she did a great job. P.S. - I rewatched to see if Daya pulled the trigger, as some here believe she did. I heard no shot, didn't see it happen. The scene cut to Poussey without Daya doing anything but hold the gun on him.

I guess it goes without saying that if Poussey weren't PoC, she wouldn't have gotten a prison sentence at all. This show really plays fast and loose with the hierarchy of systems. For example, I think Poussey got beaten pretty badly by Crazy Eyes in the 2nd? season. If that came to the attention of her family, that would be bad news. While the insane "riot" that got Poussey killed was a clusterfuck, I was pretty resentful of Crazy Eyes repeatedly, at full weight, throwing herself atop Bailey, who had Poussey by the neck. By his facial expression, I think we were meant to believe he wasn't mindful of how he was holding her down, and was more focused on trying to get Crazy Eyes off him. I think Suzanne constantly throwing herself, with a lot of weight and force, on top of a guy who was on top of a very tiny human being is what killed Poussey, and if she hadn't been constantly doing that, Poussey would be alive.

I totally agree about Crazy Eyes. As directed, and as is played, Bailey had Poussey down, and then Crazy Eyes, who is no lightweight, kept throwing herself on him. It appeared to me half the time Bailey was frozen and forgot where his hand was vis a vis Poussey, because he was desperately trying to get the relentless Crazy Eyes off him, and every time she landed on him she brought Poussey that much closer to suffocation. IMO she is as culpable, if not more, for Poussey's death and doesn't belong in general pop. What with cutting costs by stuffing the prison to the brim, I'd like Orange is the New Black to figure out that max is max, and medium or minimum security is minimum security, and it's unlikely that anyone would choose a MINIMUM security prison to stuff with hard cases, because that would pretty much turn it into something other than a minimum security prison, and a whole bunch of minimum security inmates would have grounds to get a court-mandate transfer on the grounds their sentence has suddenly become max security - against the law, I think. That "sometimes we're minimum, and sometimes we're a zoo" about that place drives me crazy based on everything I've read about minimum security. How many minimum security/max/in-between hybrids are there? Cindy/Tova and the new Muslim prisoner (I didn't not get her name) went a little over-rapidly from adversaries to buddies, particularly the way they did it. They're both tough, smart, and sarcastic - I didn't believe the abrupt "You read that?" Me too!" Hi five! I believe they'd learn how to be allies and on the same wave length, but not that way. Finally, could use with less focus on some of the guys, AND I thought Tastee coming out from the crowd to react to Pousey's body looked 100% theatre, not real.

Thought it might be helpful to have a thread for speculation about Season 3, since Jane the Virgin is so plot driven, and speculation doesn't really fit in the spoiler thread.

The show runner has said they will pick up where they left off in S3 (no time jump, IOW). I fully expect Michael to be "dead" (telenova dead). Then as the season progresses we learn he isn't, and we pick up a ton of flashbacks that we missed. It makes no sense at all for Michael to choose his wedding night to call Susana/Rose out, to do it alone when he knows how lethal she, and her stooges, can be when cornered. What was the plan? He'd arrest her then, or tell her he was going to turn her in, and then return to his honeymoon? There is a set up here, or else Michael died a really stupid death. But my money is the audience, for at least some of S3, believing Michael died, and us believing JANE believes he died as well. The show runner seems really sold on Luisa/Rose as a love story. I'm sure she's tongue in cheek, but still. I'm not the Bridget Regan fan some seem to be. I enjoy Luisa a lot, but I have no investment in her and Rose. Did we ever meet Luisa's ex-wife? Reading above, struck me that Michael going to get ice is almost a play on words "going to get iced." Hope next season is fun. Between Michael being "dead", Petra being petrified, Xo pregnant with a baby she doesn't want no matter who the father may be, and what to me is a dreary Luisa/Rose alliance, wonder how they'll pull it off. BonnieD, I agree with what you've said - however, there have been show runners who believe they can force an audience on board to a conclusion they want by eliminating options. It happens in all kinds of ways. On Mad Men, it seemed obvious to me that when the audience resisted Megan, the show trashed the other women's looks. Peggy turned into a matronly-looking drone, Betty got fat, Joan got stuck in a frowsy wig and anachronistic clothes, and Megan got a million-dollar wardrobe with everybody saying how great she is. IOW, if the show is or was committed from the start to Rafael/Jane, and married Michael/Jane just as a way to prolong story, taking Michael OFF the show might, in their reasoning, cause the audience to focus on and invest in Rafael/Jane, without Michael as a distraction. IMO that never ever works. There is a reason actors or characters don't click. Taking away the competition or distraction doesn't help. Liking Michael never stopped anyone from loving Rogelio, and I don't think it would stop anyone from liking a truly charming and empathetic Rafael. This one is a dud. This show is fun, and he's not fun. If Petra, a tightly controlled, emotionally guarded woman who finds it difficult to connect with ANYONE can be funny and entertaining despite her many trials and tribulation, rejections and disappointments, there's no excuse for Rafael. Except inadequate acting. OTOH - they have really expanded Yael Grobglas's storyline, which suggests they ARE being more organic. One of the keys was when Petra rejected Rafael, despite loving him, because she didn't want to be second choice. If she were merely a spoiler character, she would be always after Rafael. They've also given her this double role, which she's knocking out of the park. That role is a pseudo-triangle with Rafael, with poor Petra unable to say anything as Anezka (and Magda) manipulate him, and, possibly, ruin "Petra's" life by making decisions Petra wouldn't make. That seems like a strange story to launch in the S2 finale if the S3 is going to be Jane/Rafael. Furthermore, without Michael, we don't have a point of entry to the crime drama part of the show.