Nolefan

I was also surprised that Skerret seems so cavalier about her secret relationship with the chef. She almost got kicked out of the palace for her secret indenity thing. Now she is harboring another secret from the Queen? She knows that her position does not allow her to be married (I totally disagree with this, but it is the rule) I feel that the amount of risk she is taking has not been adequately portrayed. Also, seeing that she was forgiven for other acts by Victoria and Albert, her behavior now almost seems to me to be disrespectful of the Queen. But, maybe Victoria is not even aware of the marriage prohibition, and she would think the rule is dumb.

I think Victoria and Albert thought it was the honeymoon they never had, and as you said, they were just dreaming. Why wreck the fantasy with any part of reality? I also think that a part of Victoria would be perfectly happy with Lehzen raising the kids and she would just secretly visit every once and a while and drop off the additional babies that are born. And I think Albert was shown as being feed up with the fishbowl of palace life at that point, and he was just going to enjoy the fantasy and savor the alone time with Victoria because he knew it wouldn’t last long. As for the Hunky Highlander I LOVED this episode!

I found the continuity in this show really lacking , which surprised me a lot because I think this show had been doing a terrific job in this regard. Last we saw Victoria’s mother, she and Victoria were having a nice bonding moment with baby Bertie. At that time, it seemed she was still living at Buckingham Palace. But, in this episode it appeared Victoria had not seen in mother in years, with absolutely no explanation. Also, I found Victoria’s sudden “fear” of Uncle Cumberland perplexing. Last we saw him was in Young England. In that episode, Albert was trying to convince Victoria to stay in the palace because Uncle Cumberland was dangerous. Victoria basically laughed him off and continued her public carriage rides. And then Uncle Cumberland was shown as not being behind the assassination attempt and Victoria ended up telling him off. Also, I thought she blamed her mother for concocting some false fear of an assassination attempt as a ruse to keep her locked up in Kensington all those years. But now in this episode she seemed to indicate the she herself feared Uncle Cumberland all that time. Does she now think her mother was right? And the way Victoria and Albert spoke of Uncle Cumberland (while in their bedroom after the opera performance) it was as if Albert had never met the man before — no mention at all of the whole Young England stuff and Victoria seemed to be explaining to Albert for the first time Uncle Cumberland’s place in her life as a child. Don’t get me wrong, I think the man is a slime ball, but the the sudden attitude that she needed Albert’s help to protect her from Uncle Cumberland, when Albert was painted in such a bad light for attempting to protect her from him in Young England, had me scratching my head. At this point, I feel like Uncle Cumberland is just a character that gets wheeled out when the show needs a nemesis for Victoria.

Oh, so if I am understand your position correctly, you think Albert should not have any type of power at all. Period. Victoria is Queen, and others should not get any power through her. That’s cool. I am, however, fine with Victoria delegating authority to her very willing and very able consort. And, speaking as a woman, I don’t think her “girl power card” needs to be revoked for asking for some help with her job from her husband. In fact, I think she would have been stupid not to utilize the knowledge that Albert possessed to accomplish her duties as Queen.

I didn’t see Albert as being distracted by the fake crown. I saw it as Albert learning a lesson from the Soldier’s Daughter episode. He gave Victoria his advice on the ball. Victoria disagreed. Instead of getting bent out of shape about her not accepting his advice (like he did when he disagreed with her about doing the ship christening speech and told her he wasn’t going to attend but then thought the better of it and showed up in the end), he accepted her decision and did everything she wanted him to do to be supportive. Victoria seemed like it was more important to her for Albert to wear the crown than it was for Albert. I also thought it was interesting that Victoria specifically told Lord M that she thought Albert deserved his own crown when Lord M confessed to her in the prior episode (Green Eyed Monster) that he (Lord M) undermined Victoria’s wish that Albert be made King Consort more than Lord M let on in order to protect Victoria from herself. Made me wonder if Victoria wasn’t throwing a little shade at Lord M with that remark.

I agree. There is a difference between wanting power just to throw your weight around (probably like Lord Conroy and Cumberland) and wanting power to do some good things (like Albert). There seems to be a split in people’s views of Albert in this regard, as I feel some people want to put him in the Conroy/Cumberland camps of wanting power. I do no think, however, there is any evidence of Albert being like them. He seems fine to me with being Victoria’s advisor and with Victoria getting credit for being Queen. In fact, he strikes me as the sort of person that is fine with the ideas and issues being the center of attention, but would be very uncomfortable with himself being the center of attention. He seems perfectly fine to sit in the carriage and not make eye contact, while Victoria handles things (the scene from Engine of Change). It just seems like when he gets passionate about a cause and Victoria doesn’t want to do anything about it, he losses his head. But, the causes always seem like good things that Victoria agrees with, they just seem to disagree about how the causes should be “rolled out.” Is Albert wrong to go against Victoria in these instances? Yes, she is Queen, and it is her decision. Does Albert’s behavior make him a power hungry Conroy/Cumberland type of man? I would say definitely no.

I am glad Ada Lovelace was featured in this episode. I had no idea who she was. A really amazing woman. It was a shame that Victoria seemed so threatened by her, though. But maybe this was realistic behavior on Victoria’s part. I thought Victoria’s behavior in this episode was very unattractive. Her characterization of Ada Lovelace as “looking very pleased with herself,” when Ada seemed nothing but respectful and nice, and Victoria’s attempt to pit Albert and Lord M against each other with the trip to Brocket Hill, which appeared solely to get a rise out of Albert, made her look childish and unable to cope with not being the center of attention. The irony is that amist all the allegations of some audience members about Albert being disrespectful to women, he was the one (not Victoria) who gave Ada the respect due to her without regard to her gender. Maybe this episode was a means to explain why Albert does not talk to or associate with women, even on a platonic level, because Victoria would freak out. That said, I LOVE the Victoria character. Largely due to Jenna Coleman’s amazing job of showing Victoria’s flaws, but also making her a lovable, relatable character. Also, I believe Albert may have headed off Victoria’s spiral out of control if he just asked her why she didn’t want him to go to the dinner, instead of getting defensive and asking whether Victoria was commandiing him to stay at home. I guess both Victoria’s and Albert’s fears ramped up the situation. Victoria’s fears of being locked away, and Albert’s fears of being treated like Dash.

I agree. But Victoria’s was not a typical 19th century marriage. As Victoria stated herself, she CHOSE Albert because she loved him. She could have chosen not to marry at all, like Queen Elizabeth I. She had power in her marriage because she was Queen that other women at her time did not have. As depicted on the show, Albert had no power to do anything at the beginning of their marriage. Slowly, Victoria granted him more power to “assist her” with her duties, both out of necessity (Victoria’s confinements) and because Albert proved to be very willing and able to handle certain things. I do not think it is correct to lump Victoria in as her husband’s “property” like other women of the time. She wasn’t. Heck, she even had the choice to include the word “obey” in her wedding vows. Their marriage was not equal in the beginning, but I think the reason for the inequality was Victoria was actually above her husband. With the societal norms in place at the time, Albert, to me, seems very progressive to take a back seat in a number of ways. Sure, he struggles at times. But, I have not gotten a vibe from Albert that he does not want or that he resents him wife being Queen. He just seems eager to do more himself to assist her as her consort.

Excellent point. Judging 1840s behavior through a 2018 lense can make things appear distorted. I think what may get lost while doing so is the fact that, even for the 1840s, I think Victoria and Albert’s marriage was more “modern” than the typical marriage of the time period. The whole idea that an 1840s’ husband would have to ask permission and/or get input from his wife on ANY decision is pretty revolutionary. Although Albert definitely struggled with this, he seemed very progressive for the time period for the amount of control he did give up. I think Victoria was well aware of the societal norms of the time, and understood this, even if the 2018 audience finds this hard to fathom.

I totally agree. And I think Victoria’s words in this episode could not have made it more clear about her feelings for Albert. Victoria knows what Albert is like, warts and all, and she loves him for who he is. In fact, while she teases him about his seriousness, I think she deep, down inside wants that serious part of him to counterbalance her less than serious nature. I also think that Albert very much needs and wants the unstructured, chaotic part of Victoria. While he is reserved and controlled on the surface, underneath his is a very passionate young man. He can let loose with Victoria, and I think it is very intoxicating for Victoria that she is the one person who can get him to let loose. And Albert sharing his deep, dark secret with her regarding Uncle Leopold only deepened Victoria and Albert’s bond as this showed Victoria how much Albert trusted her with one of his greatest fears. (I am not a Vicbourne fan. I like Lord M and Victoria as good friends, father/daughter bond and think any romantic angle is creepy with the age difference. That said, I think this episode shows why Victoria and Albert are a much better match than Lord M and Victoria. Lord M is a brooding, emotional vault, who is always available with nice words of wisdom, but he never really let Victoria in emotionally, which I think is everything to Victoria. She is a very emotional woman. Albert, in contrast to Lord M, opens up emotionally to Victoria. Thus, Victoria and Albert’s relationship is much deeper). Although on paper Victoria and Albert may not seem a good match, I think in reality their personalities work really well together.

Alrighty, then.

Was the King offering the Duchess de Barry (spelling?) to Albert for Albert’s “entertainment?” I did not get the point of her character. She seemed like a professional mistress of sorts. She was knowledgeable in things (like art and languages) that powerful men are interested in. Then, she was sitting at the table next to Albert later. And her friend became Ernest’s companion. Obviously, Albert was not interested, but I was wondering if I was reading this right?

Seemed like she learned a couple of languages, music, and drawing. The show seemed to indicate that Lehzen was in charge of her education, and there was a scene where Lehzen had a pile of books about government that they had not gotten to yet. You would think that with Victoria locked in Keningston Palace all those years with nothing to do, there would have been plenty of time to read, learn math, etc. But maybe with Lehzen in charge of her education, it was the blind leading the blind.

Casting information was recently released. Victoria’s older sister Fedora has been casted, as well as the part of Lord Palmerston. Looks like the actor playing Lord Palmerston is much, much younger than the real Lord Palmerston. Wonder what this will mean? Lord Palmerston was married to Lord Melbourne’s sister. I thought this might be interesting to explore in the show, but with the character being much younger, will his wife be reinvented? The new casting information made me think about what I hope to see in Season 3. My list: (1) Victoria and Albert are now both a bit older, and each Prime Minister that they admired (Victoria and Lord M/Albert and Robert Peele) is now gone. I hope to see Victoria and Albert start to team up with each other against common foes, such as Lord Palmerston. (2) The bedroom door lock I have read so much about at Osborne House. (3) The show is at its best when if features new inventions of the time (Engine of Change was one of my favorites). So, I am looking forward to the Great Exhibition. (4) The Scotland episode was another one of my favorites. I hope Victoria and Albert take another vacation there. I read little Vicky used to ride with her parents through the Highlands on a Shetland pony, which would be too cute. (5) I read that Victoria and Albert travelled to Albert’s home in Germany. It became one of Victoria’s favorite places. I hope Season 3 includes a trip there, which would also have the added benefit of more Ernest. (And in regard to Ernest, I need some questions answered: What about the wife he is supposed to have by now? Are Ernest and Harriet over? Will Victoria ever got a clue about Ernest and Harriet?)

I agree. This was a great part of the episode that got very little discussion. There where many layers to it. The discussion about the Parliament building and Lord M saving it from being destroyed and Albert working to rebuild the new building around the old one can be seen as also applying to each man’s relationship with Victoria. Albert’s question to Lord M about whether Parliament would accept a German prince was reminiscent of Albert and Lord M’s first meeting where Albert asked Lord M about the Parliament tour. In the first instance, Lord M never answered Albert’s question about what Lord M thought about a German prince touring Parliament, but this time Lord M immediately stated that he thought Albert was the perfect choice for the job. Again, I think more code discussion about Victoria. In addition, Lord M sharing his secret with Albert instead of Victoria. All the secret letters and conversations between Lord M and Victoria that Albert had not been included in, and with this gesture, Lord M pulled Albert into the circle of his relationship with Victoria, and established a relationship of his own with Albert. Also, I am positive that Lord M knew Albert would tell Victoria about his illness and Lord M set it up knowing that Albert would be there to comfort her when Victoria got the news and was confident that Albert would indeed be there to support Victoria in her time of need. Finally, Victoria would be able to see that maybe Albert and Lord M were not so different in the way they cared for her after all. This scene showed that both men would do anything to protect her from distressing situations by keeping distressing information from her (Albert’s behavior in A Soldier’s Daughter and Victoria yelling at Albert that Lord M would never treat her like a child by hiding distressing news from her, when Lord M did just that). Great scene.

As a P.S. to romanticizing Victoria and Albert’s relationship, I think they did that themselves. An example being the sexy painting Victoria gave to Albert and the crown Albert designed specifically for Victoria. This is downright legit fairytale stuff. It frustrates me to see people attempting to disparage their relationship as being less than what it was, when the two parties to the relationship both professed by words and action time and again that they were madly in love.

I think both Victoria and Albert are authoritative, hence they are in a power struggle at this point in their marriage. I also think that Albert’s m.o. in their martial power struggle appears to be to take action first as to what he thinks is best, then ask for forgiveness later. I agree that Albert should have asked Victoria first, but I don’t think his motive for wanting to invite Victoria’s mother was wrong. To me, this doesn’t make Albert some evil person trying to lock Victoria away in some dungeon to take over power so that he can rule England. It just seems like normal bad moves that couples make in their marriage when they try do get what they want — normal marital power struggles. They are a young couple who are still trying to figure out how to be married and how to fulfill each other’s needs. I thought that Albert made some advancement in how he relates to Victoria in this episode. He went from the beginning to just telling Victoria her childhood fears were irrational, to understanding that what Victoria needs (and what Lehzen provided) is someone to support her, not tell her she is acting irrationally (which was the point of the Uncle Cumberland stuff). When Albert stood up at the table at the end of the episode when Uncle Cumberland showed up like he was ready to throw Uncle Cumberland out, this made all the difference to Victoria (she knew at that point Albert understand and validated her feelings). This action by Albert, then made Victoria see things from Albert’s point of view (that maybe she needed to start forgiving people and not hold on to old grudges or they were going to destroy her) thus Victoria’s statement to her mother about maybe things were no that bad and inviting Uncle Cumberland to stay. Again,typical martial struggles to me. I find nothing wrong with presenting their marriage in a romantic light. They had normal martial struggles their overcame together. Despite their real life struggles, overall both seemed very happy and madly in love.

I totally agree. Where did Ms. Goodwin get this premarital sex theory from? In her diary entry from her wedding night, Victoria states that she “never spent such an evening” and goes on and on about the new experience. Vicky was born 9 and a half months after Victoria and Albert’s wedding. I am not a doctor, but I know a woman can get pregnant the first time she has sex. I realize this is a television drama, but when the show creator makes statements like this which are in direct conflict to historical facts, it makes me nervous. Almost seems like she is more interested in rewriting history then telling the story of Queen Victoria for some strange reason. I totally agree. It seems more plausible to me that maybe Victoria and/or Albert became less fertile as they aged, instead of Ms. Goodwin’s sex strike theory. But, I guess her sex strike theory is better for creating drama.

There was a scene where Victoria flat out asked Albert why he invited her mother without asking her. His response was that he did it for the children, i.e., the kids would remember Christmas with the whole family there. I don’t see this as making Albert “insecure” and “jealous” and wanting to “keep Victoria to himself alone.” In fact, I think it disproves this. Albert has very much tried since the beginning of his relationship with Victoria to promote and encourage the reconciliation of the relationship between Victoria and her mother, which would expand her circle of relationships. Victoria has other friendships with her ladies, so she has other women to share things with and talk to. Albert does not seem to mind at all these friendships.

I think Lord M has not died yet, just had a stroke. He died in 1848. Bertie was born 1841.

When she proposed to Lord M, I feel like Victoria was getting a lot of pressure to marry, was terrified of things changing, and, to an extent rebelling against her mother and Uncle Leopold. Victoria had a great friendship (platonic) love for Lord M, and I don’t think she had a clue about romantic love until she met Albert. On the other hand, I think Lord M was and still is deeply in romantic love with Victoria. I think he could have taken advantage of Victoria in both instances (the proposal and the trip to the greenhouse) but cares for Victoria too much to cause her any harm or scandal, and I think he knows Victoria is madly in love with Albert and didn’t want to get in the middle of some silly, juvenile fight between the two (especially knowing he would wind up the loser in the end).

We will have to just agree to disagree :) As I said, Albert was wrong to go to Parliment, and, while the Parliment visit was on a higher level of inappropriate than the train visit (which I think would be viewed as “official” by the outside world because a member of Parliament, Peel, was there), I think in both instances he lost his mind for a moment because he was excited about the subject matter, not because he has some sort of underlying, deep-seeded loathing (or resentment) for Victoria. He got away with it during the train visit, so maybe this made him think that people can separate his actions from his wife’s actions. But I think he learned in a very embarrassing way that his actions will always be equated with the Queen, so he needs to think about that before he participates in things in the future. I never got any “I’m the sole master” vibe. In fact, he admitted to Victoria he was wrong (“this is what happens when I don’t listen to you,” which to me shows that he recognizes that what she says holds value). Victoria forgave him. I think Victoria and Albert, at this point in their marriage, are still working through this very unique relationship they are in, especially for the time (Victoria trying to figure out how to be a Queen and a good wife and Albert trying to figure out how to be a good husband to a Queen). They have no examples to go from, so they are figuring it out as they go along. I see both Victoria and Albert as strong willed. Both are adults, and I think Albert’s problem with Lehzen was that Victoria is an adult, and, as an adult and his wife, she should not be going to Lehzen, who hates him and is just a yes man for Victoria’s opinion (compared to advice from Ernest, Lord M, and even Uncle Leopold who are able to point out other perspectives to each of them during V&A’s disputes that help them keep their relationship together, instead of wanting to see the relationship fail, like Lehzen). I think because they deeply love each other and both want the best for each other despite their disagreements — as Victoria said “they are both on the same side” — they are able to forgive each other for their human shortcomings (as each are far from perfect) and figure out a way to move forward together in their marriage.

I thought that it was pretty obvious to everyone in the room when Captain Forbes introduced Sarah to Victoria and explained what a wonderful, smart girl she was and the time his wife spent with her (Captain Forbes even appeared a tad misty-eyed to me) that Captain Forbes cared for Sarah — way beyond just a soldier delivering a “gift.” But I guess it was just me. Albert being a father himself of two little girls was maybe more attuned to this.

I agree that Albert should not have gone to Parliment, but I do not think he went there because he “resents” Victoria but because he greatly admired Peel and wanted to witness the debate — I saw that it was similar to him going to see the train after Victoria told him not to. It was a huge mistake, which he admitted to Victoria when she asked about his hand. During their fight, Albert said some not so nice things, but Victoria and Albert forgave each other. It was their fight, their marriage, and their business. Lehzen’s downfall was inserting herself into their business and attempting to instigate more strife between the couple when pointing out her observation about Albert not respecting Victoria enough — again the whole you are a queen and better than him speech. Albert was right, she was attempting to create a wedge and Lehzen basically admitted this when she told Victoria that she still saw her job as protecting Victoria. Victoria does not feel threatened by Albert (and knows despite their fights that he loves her) and told this Lehzen. I totally agree that Albert resented Lehzen, but as Albert said, he is her husband and should be placed on a higher level than Lehzen in Victoria’s life. Albert has placed Victoria at the highest level in his life, even sending his brother back to Coburg when he feared Ernest’s behavior might negatively impact Victoria’s image as Queen.

I don’t see Albert “resenting” his wife at all. In fact, it seems to me he deeply loves her, feels a great duty to support her, and only wants the best for her and his adopted country. When he attended Parliment, it was a cause that both he and Victoria greatly supported — it wasn’t like he went there to undermine her position on the issue. In regard to the whole argument about her being “spoiled,” I see that as an argument between a husband and wife, not Queen and subject. It had to do with marital issues of placing boundaries in a marriage with respect to in-laws (although Lehzen was technically a servant, her relationship with Victoria was more that of mother and daughter). Lehzen disliked Albert from the beginning, flat out telling Victoria that she thought he was not worthy of her “as a second son from nowhere.” On top of that, she busts into their bedroom whenever she likes, shoots him dirty looks when Victoria and Albert are in disputes, tries to reinforce Victoria’s fears that Albert does not need her, and then uses little Vicky as a pawn (knowing how much Albert adores the child as there have been many scenes of Lehzen observing Albert with Vicky) to attempt to demonstrate the she (Lehzen) is more valuable to Victoria then her husband because as Lehzen stated “she ONLY serves” Victoria (playing on Victoria’s deepest fears that she might be abandoned one day). I feel bad for Lehzen, but I think the whole situation demonstrates how these royal servants basically sacrificed their whole lives for these royals (forced to forego families of their own) and then when their time for service ended (in Lehzen’s case when Victoria became an adult as she was Victoria’s governess), they are left with nothing. I read that Lehzen raised Victoria to be the next Virgin Queen - to never marry and never be dependent on a man. I think Lehzen planned to remain Victoria’s most trusted counsel as Victoria reigned alone. This plan fell to pieces when she married Albert, and, probably desperate to not end up alone, Lehzen then started creating a wedge between Albert and Victoria. As shown, this did not work out for Lehzen as Victoria chose to let go of some of her childhood fears and trust Albert.