Nolefan

Agreed it is not a documentary, but it is based on real historical people. I am totally on board with the Hollywood version of these historical people, but significant changes in ages so as to manipulate the audience into buying into a romantic relationship between characters is just manipulative. Most history books portray Lord M and Victoria as a father/daughter relationship. If Ms. Goodwin wanted to show it was otherwise, fine. But by making Lord M decades younger than he really was is a manipulative way of doing so. It says to me that this show even believes the real age difference between Lord M and Victoria has an ick factor to it, most audience members would not support it, so to make the audience get on board, they drastically changed his age. Then, turned him into a souped up version of Lord M and put him up against a more realistic version of Albert. Then, we get some audience members “cheering” against history, when the history they are portraying is actually fiction and a fictional character. This is a story about real history, right? And now we get comments that Victoria should dump Albert and sleep with Lord Palmerston. Sure, now that Palmerston is a young, sexy guy. Doubt we would get the same reaction if the character was in his 60s. Pure manipulation.

Victoria was kept away from the Hanovers by her mom and Conroy under the strict Kensington system, with little to no visitors. She was very sheltered. I think the real Victoria was also particularly atune to staying away from scandal, as she was infuriated with how her mom’s and Conroy’s relationship was gossiped about in a handful of Court events she attended. Heck, she caused a scandal by publicly questioning Lady Flora’s morals. She might have been more liberal than Albert, but not by much.

Emily Palmerston seems like a women who does not mind sharing. Victoria, by contrast LOVES being the Queen and the center of attention. Can’t image Victoria sharing her man with anyone, especially how she freaked out she became the couple of times she thought Albert might take a mistress. I think most people would be astonished by the arrangement. For sheltered Victoria, who didn’t even realize that Harriet and Ernest were on the verge of an affair, I thought she would me more astonished.

I don’t see it as barely tolerating each other at all. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To me, even though V&A are constantly fighting, they are NOT indifferent about each other. In fact, they still seem very much into each other. Even when they were exchanging the messages back in forth, there still seemed very much an anticipation on each one of their faces waiting for the letter to arrive. They appear to me as this young couple (aren’t they about 27 years old now??), who deeply love each other (best friends), but are also dealing with the less romantic aspects of relationships (balancing “jobs,” raising kids, dealing with all these people in the middle of your marriage). They are both passionate individuals, and when they release that passion in bed, it has the constant consequences of a baby. The other way to release the passion is fighting. But that has emotional ramifications for their relationship, as well. I for one am impressed about how honest they are with one another. They don’t seem afraid to express the feelings they are experiencing, no matter how unpleasant. Initially, that adds fuel to the fire, but probably in the long run it is good because they are not withdrawing from each other (the indifference thing). They have also shown the ability to forgive each other for each other’s shortcomings. Maybe it is Jenna Coleman and Tom Hughes’ mad onscreen chemistry, but even in the mist of all this fighting, I can still feel V&A’s deep love.

Yeah, surprised that Victoria did not stand up and say anything in protection of Sophie. But, I guess Victoria is so out to lunch about her friends (she is the one to invite Sophie’s husband along while it seems everyone in the Palace knows what a creep he is) she probably did even notice. Seemed like a good time to throw wine in someone’s face, but I guess that is saved for Albert.

Right here with you. Agree that Daisy Goodwin hates Prince Albert and obviously this is the Season when she finally totally destroys his character by making Victoria out to be some superhero while Albert is portrayed as basically one step up from the Duke of Monmouth. Heck, I would not be surprised if Victoria and Lord Palmerston end up having a thing at this point. Daisy is always so jovial about how she got a whole nation to cheer against history with her Lord M fictional romance, but she uses the same methods she is using now — basically creating a fictional character (the real Lord M was 60 and he beat servant girls for pleasure, but hey, why let facts get in the way of her Rufus Sewell crush??) to compete with Albert and portray Albert in the worst possible light. Now we have a young,sexy Lord Palmerston (and the real life Lord Palmerston is a POS as shown above) for everyone to root for Victoria to get with. Whatever. Very disgruntled with this show as well.

The whole episode seemed off to me, like it is going to be revealed in a future episode that Palmerston is some cruel B.S.er (based on the above in comparison to what he told Albert about his tenants and Palmerston discrediting the Irish gentleman encountered on Victoria and Albert’s ride as some disgruntled poacher). Palmerston has already been shown as planting the guns to frame the Chartists. I got the vibe that he “arranged” the warm Irish reception for Victoria, when in fact the Irish really hate the English and Victoria (and justly based on the way they have been treated). I think Victoria is being lead astray by Palmerston, and she will be shredding herself in a future episode as to how her gut told her Bertie was being abused, but how she ignored her gut with respect to her other children (her people) being “abused” at the hands of Palmerston and the English government. At least I hope this is where this story is going because otherwise this is Daisy Goodwin whitewashing history in regard to Lord Palmerston’s character (which she kinda did for Victoria in last season’s Irish episode) and that would be truly despicable. Almost got the feeling Victoria was thinking about the invite, too. She seems very “fascinated” by Palmerston at the moment. Based on the above, I am guessing she will be regretting in the future how she discounted Albert’s gut feeling as to what was going on in Ireland and overall with Palmerston. Otherwise the whole scene where Albert took Victoria to the tenant housing and meeting the Irishman on the ride was for nothing. Otherwise, Daisy Goodwin must have some real axe to grind with the real Albert, as so far this Season he has been shown to be completely wrong about everything (and wrong in “fictional” ways that Daisy Goodwin made up for the show as if to intentionally paint the man in a really bad light). In regard to Lady Palmerston, wonder how she will be feeling when she finds out Lord Palmerston has been more interested in Sophie than he has let on (why is he so concerned about Sophie and the footman if he did not care about her?)

Totally agree!! Also, what I find interesting is that it seems that while a lot a people (Lord M, Sir Robert, Duke of Wellington, etc.) initially just disliked him, once they came to really know him personally, not only liked him but became admires of him. All these people had preconceived ideas of Albert as some money grabbing, power hungry German, but once that got to know him as a person, grew to have great respect for the man. And the show seems to indicate that despite all the vitriol spewed at him, he still went out of his way to build relationships with these people (the prime example being Sir Robert). The irony is that Victoria was the one that was the grudge holder, but it seems she has matured since S1 in this regard when she caused a Constitutional Crisis because she disliked Sir Robert.

He didn’t want the post because he felt like people didn’t want him, or personally disliked him, not because he was offended that they disagreed with his ideas. He was sad about it, not angry about it. Heck, there were people running through the campus with an effigy of him — that would be some scary and humiliating stuff to me. Seems to me he just wants to be useful, not King, and he seemed like he didn’t want to be the source of division and personal ridicule.

Actually, I thought the parallels in the show were between Dr. Snow and Albert. Both were very scientific, reasoned based thinkers who were viewed by outsiders as “eccentric” by the English establishment because of their “odd” reliance on science and introverted personalities. Even at first Victoria discounted Dr. Snow after he stuttered in front of her. It wasn’t until Florence Nightingale told Victoria that Dr. Snow was the only doctor that seemed to be interested in fixing the problem that Victoria decided to give him another shot. I actually think her experience with Albert made her realize that “scientific” type personalities may be misunderstood, especially based on Victoria in the past poo pooing Albert’s interest and being insecure and intimidated around smart people (the whole Ada Lovelace thing) only to find out these scientific types can be good people and have a lot to offer (and that she actually enjoys the stuff, too!). Mr. Snow was not being “bullied” by anyone, just ignored by the British elite, including Victoria at first.

Well, I personally don’t think that would have made any difference because the problem, as shown, was that a certain group of people did not want any change at all. But I guess a larger group were not offended and were willing to give it a shot (so maybe most people were not as offended by Albert’s delivery of his speech as a lot of people on this message board seem to be).

Well, the flip side of Albert being seen as a bully is Victoria’s coddling of a spoilt brat. Bertie throws things when he gets upset (throwing his crown at the former King of the French), beats his sister over the head with a stick, and swears at his father in front of a bunch of guests at the dinner table. Is Albert a little over enthusiastic in his teaching? Yes, and he took Victoria’s reprimands to heart and was more gentle with Bertie in the archery scene. But Victoria has been shown as waaay too permissive with Bertie, which has turned him into an out of control brat. Victoria and Albert would both be better served regarding Bertie if they could find some middle ground.

Well, it wasn’t “someone’s house” it was an institution for higher learning. All he said was that a UNIVERSITY is a place where there should be the freedom to exchange thoughts and new ideas, such as looking at science instead of focusing solely on Theology. Maybe this is a much more modern concept then I realized, but I thought that WAS what universities were about. And, it was not Albert’s delivery they were offended by, it was his statements and his honesty about what he wanted to accomplish. The flip side was that he could have lied like politicians do, and then once they are in office go back on their promises or take a course that the people voting for them were not aware of. I appreciated his honesty and the people voting from him know where he stood and made an informed choice.

All I can think about is this is Ms. Goodwin’s attempt at some how appeasing the Lord M/Victoria fans that have been writing the forbidden love fan fiction that Ms.Goodwin gushes over in interviews. But instead of a Queen, we have a Duchess; instead of the Prime Minister who is protecting the young Queen and due to his position cannot marry the Queen, we have a footman (who is the spitting image of a young Rufus Sewell); and we have an evil, cruel, controlling husband who does not really love the Duchess and who the Duchess was forced to marry, which is how Albert is always depicted in said fan fiction. The only thing missing is the young girl/woman, older man/sexy professor male midlife crisis fantasy trope, but I think this has been the “ick” factor the a large group of people are put off by in any Lord M/Victoria romantic relationship, so the show did not want to go there.

I do not expect anywhere near a documentary, but at some point the show is no longer about the life of Queen Victoria anymore, and I feel this show is pretty close to or past that point now. I read the fact and fiction thing PBS sends out each week and Daisy Goodwin reveals that most of the show is fiction, especially with respect to the Victoria character. What really gets me is when Ms. Goodwin states something about Victoria is fiction, but she thinks Victoria would have done this or that anyway. I’m like WHAT?

If I am honest, I am finding Victoria’s character this season boring as well. The love of adulation arch so far is a big nothing. She seems to outsmart everyone at every turn, especially Albert. I thought the Palmerston arch would make things more interesting, but so far, even though she is decades less experienced then him, she has already put him in his place. She also has not had to deal with any real consequences from her actions. She somehow innately knows that cholera won’t affect her. She even got the chance to say goodbye to Nancy before she died. The portrayal of her as some sort of superhero just makes her character a bit boring to me.

I was actually disappointed about the Palmerston character here. I was excited about Victoria being challenged by the rogue politician in the first episode, now Palmerston could basically be any character. Why did he even have to be with her at the hospital? To prove they are besties or something now? Love how he interacted with Feodora in the last episode. The neutered Palmerston with Victoria is a boring disappointment.

Well, even this episode showed the Cambridge group (supposedly educated people) making an Albert in effigy, with some derogatory sign around his neck making fun of him as a German. Also, at this time, as shown in the episode, people were blaming the foreigners for bringing the diseases to England. So maybe the English were fine for a while prior to Albert, but the hate brewed up again after he arrived. Victoria even remarked to Lord M about how it made no sense that people disliked a German Prince, when her whole family was German, and Lord M said that public opinion is often not logical.

Well, Albert is the upper class person willing to use his position to be brave enough to stand up to these elitists in support of the lower class in regard to slavery issues, child labor laws, better housing for the poor, etc. God knows these British elites just ignore the common people, as mentioned in this episode by Aligail that the Chartist Petition was just ignored by Parliament and Mr. Chauffy was sent packing. And it is even more offensive that they just don’t like him because he is German. Heaven forbid a German person might come in and mess up their English traditions. Luckily, Albert didn’t have Lord M’s social conscience, who found the less fortunate to be lower than dirt and should just be ignored in the hopes that they would all go away somewhere to die.

LOL. I see the British people as coming across as delicate, insecure, elitists who are so intent on keeping their class system that they panic and get billigant and nasty when someone has the nerve to even question whether there might be a better way of doing things. If I were Albert, instead of being all contrite and blaming myself for people bullying me (like he did in this episode), I would have told them to go $&@# themselves and left.

No, for the women. A lot of women were used and abused. Yet, this show seems to depict that even the rakish men were thoughtful to women’s feelings (i.e. Palmerston agreeing to back off because Sophie’s heart might get broken and the whole Ernest stuff, when the real Ernest was thought to have given his wife the STD). I know that Sophie’s husband is in the mix, but that character is full on villain, not someone more complicated where the audience might like the character, but dislike his behavior.

I kinda thought Victoria’s close friendships with her servants was one of the things about her that made her so different from typical royals. For example, Lehzen her governess, who she treated like her mother. And I thought the show would follow the unorthodox way Victoria treated her servants as a way of laying the groundwork for As for Nancy, I have speculation as well

In regard to Palmerston and Sophie...I was almost getting interested in that storyline, but then Palmerston backs off? Weird. It is almost like this show doesn’t want to show the men that were historically rakes (example, Ernest) being rakes with real characters in the show (outside of visits to nunneries) and the fallout from their rakish behavior, which I would find interesting. So, now are we supposed to view Palmerston as just misunderstood? Sophie still could of ended up in Joseph’s arms even after a dalliance with Palmerston. Seems like the show is missing some low hanging fruit here.

I am right here with you regarding the swimming scene and Joseph in general. And Joseph is almost coming across as kind of like a stalker to me. It seems that he is always lurking around the Duchess — whenever she turns around he is there and he is always kinda glaring at her. But I guess this is this show’s idea of “romance” because Francatelli started out the same way.

I would actually argue the opposite. Albert was the first prince consort. He created the role, and I don’t think anyone knew for sure what that role would mean. Whereas, the thing that bothers me about Prince Phillip in The Crown is that I am left scratching my head as to why he didn’t understand the role when he already had Albert as an example and the knowledge of Prince Albert faced in the role, so I have much less sympathy for Prince Phillip. And I think overall, Prince Albert does tolerate Victoria’s foibles and letting her have her way.