Plums

That's a really cool layer of interpretation, because I just thought it was typical sexism of the time. Like, "oh, a scientist? must be a man because only men are scientists", but you're probably right too. She's probably always known on some level that her mother uses sex as a spy, and I agree that her blow up at Elizabeth was more about the lying than just the sex, though obviously Paige, prudish American that she is, wasn't indifferent to the idea of sex being a tool in their espionage arsenal. But if her parents were honest with her from the start when she asked them point blank why she shouldn't be in a relationship with someone and also get information from them, that the reason why they didn't want her to spy on her boyfriends is because she didn't possess the psychological preparedness to deal with the emotional danger of that- for example if they told her something like "we once ran an agent who used sex to spy on a Pakistani intelligence officer, and she made the mistake of letting those lines blur and admitted to her target she was spying on him. Result being, he strangled her to death and we had to fold her naked corpse into a suitcase"(/jk), or something like that as an honest cautionary tale, she may not have been as attracted to spy work, but she also might not have been as angry at them.

This is an interesting article from Den of Geek UK, mainly lauding Elizabeth's character as one of the best, and also an important contribution for being a woman, in the TV age of anti-heroes. http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/the-americans/57983/the-americans-saluting-tvs-finest-female-anti-hero Also, I saw it because Guillermo Del Toro tweeted it! He's one of my fave creators so it was really awesome to see we watch the same TV, lol.

I've seen a lot of confusion wrt the database search. It's a criminal background check database. Stan wasn't looking to see if they were using false identities, a la William, that wouldn't be something that would have popped up- It wasn't a database of All The Names. I don't know what he was thinking he'd find. Maybe he was hoping something would pop up in the Jennings history that would explain their suspicious behavior that was NOT soviet espionage, but just standard criminal activity. Like a drug bust or theft or something.

So it just occurred to me that Elizabeth must be so sleep deprived right now. She's running on at least 24 hours and looks utterly exhausted by the time Philip calls her with the bug out code. The shot of adrenaline that gave her will only go so far. Her having the presence of mind to sentimentally grab the wedding rings is even more impressive to me now, lol. I can't help but feel though that the fact of her being so extremely sleep deprived is going to lead to something terrible. She can't afford to crash or lose an iota of concentration anytime in the near future.

I thought she was dead pretty instantly, but now I have to go back and rewatch to see, cause I wasn't paying too much attention tbh. I actually think everyone's bemused reactions are one of the most realistic things the show has ever depicted from civilians. No one sees or hears Liz shoot her, she's basically just there and gone in a flash, and then this random woman in a wig just falls down dead at their feet. She was shot in the back and lands on her back, so it's not immediately discernible that someone has just murdered her. She didn't have a normal gun for people to freak out about. So everyone is just totally caught off guard and don't really know what to make of this very random thing that just happened. We aren't with them long enough to see them figure out exactly what's happened, which I'm sure would have been like, in half a minute.

The more I think about Father Andrei, the more I think he's less of an idiot and more just way in over his head. When we were first introduced to him, he obviously didn't really know much about spying, asking Phillip questions about how equipment worked and whatnot. He's probably just a priest that the KGB was forcing and/or bribing to inform on his fellow priests for blackmail material or something low grade like that. Petty church politics stuff. He's not a trained spy, and it's totally believable that given his purview, he'd have no reason to suspect the FBI would ever be interested in him. He's informing on fellow Russians, not Americans. It was monumentally foolish for Phillip and Elizabeth to trust a rube like him so completely, and they were probably lulled into that false sense of security with him just because he's Russian. They're entirely screwed. Andrei is not going to be able to hide his recognition if Stan shows him that photo of Phillip and Elizabeth.

This is the reason why I think the coup plot is thwarted regardless of the dead drop being intercepted by the FBI. Also, Oleg told the Americans about the anti-Gorbachev element. They can relay that information themselves by their own methods, and that combined with the assassination attempt by an official diplomat on another official diplomat, it won't take much to put two and two together. Something else I thought of- When Claudia tells Elizabeth that her actions in stopping the coup negate every other good thing she's ever done, that pinged me so hard. Because my endgame speculation ever since The Jenningses officially joined the pro-Gorbachev, anti-coup conspiracy, is that their action in preventing a coup will negate every other bad thing they've done when it comes to the Americans capturing them and offering protection rather than imprisonment.

I don't think it's unbelievable that Paige has "known all along" as it were. She was happy play-acting the spy protege because she saw it as working for the greater good and more crucially, as a way of truly bonding with her mother. Elizabeth protected her from the realities of the job, and Paige knew that, and she kind of lied to herself and went along with it because working with her mother and being her confidante outweighed all that. Until she found out Elizabeth probably slept with one of her fellow interns and ruined his life, and she couldn't ignore it anymore. Her parents have always been very weird about sex with her, from when she was dating Matthew. I think it's part of the reason why she got so stuck on the idea of spies using sex. And it's not totally out of nowhere that Paige has been feeling lied to this season- That tired sigh in episode 5 after Phillip sparred with her and showed her just how much Elizabeth was holding back in her physical training, right before she went in to the safe house to see Elizabeth and Claudia again, happy face on- was a hint. So I can buy this confrontation. Though I do agree with Sepinwall's take that seeing Paige being faced with the undeniable reality of the consequences of her mother's work rather than Paige expositing that experience would have worked better than the flashbacks to Elizabeth's training, which felt very heavy handed. That whole formative experience I think could have worked just as well in a monologued anecdote Elizabeth relays to Claudia in their confrontation, to explain her motives after the deed is done. We didn't need to see it. Paige's turn felt abrupt without seeing it. On a different note, I love the irony of how completely worried they were about Pastor Tim for like two seasons, and then it turns out he's loyal to Paige and ultimately keeps their secret, meanwhile the Russian priest they've never worried about and trusted enough to marry them gives them game away totally, like an idiot.

okay, with the preview for the finale and the whole "Paige's last scene is super sad and takes place outside" spoiler, I'm going to assume Stan makes them and guesses they might try to grab Henry in New Hampshire on their way out of the country. When I saw them talking about getting Paige and Henry in the preview, I thought NO. LEAVE THEM. STAN WILL KNOW WHERE TO FIND YOU, AND YOU'LL BE DOING THEM A FAVOR IN THE LONG RUN BY JUST DISAPPEARING- THEY'RE AMERICANS, NOT RUSSIANS. But obviously they didn't hear me and will make that huge mistake. So. They end up in a car chase at some point, and Stan, blinded by the rage of the betrayal, shoots into the car, but rather than getting Elizabeth again like he did in the s1 finale, he hits Paige or Phillip. OR WHAT IF IT'S HENRY!? Omg. I can see him letting them go if he sees he's inadvertently killed one of the kids, especially if it's Henry. Someone on reddit made mention of the fact that Stan explicitly referenced his belief that Gregory was the one who killed Amador in season 1 tonight, and they wouldn't have made a point of including that tidbit if wasn't going to be pertinent in the final confrontation. My thinking is, Stan doesn't let Phillip live or get away if he thinks Phillip killed Amador. So it stands to reason that whatever fate befalls Phillip and Elizabeth, the fact that FBI thinks that they didn't murder Chris Amador will play a part in that.

Did I miss something, or do we know how Sweetwater got massacred? The uprising happened in Escalante, then the rebelling hosts moved on to Confederado areas while Ghost Nation picked up humans. Hector and Armistice aren't there to shoot up the town, so what happened? I actually really loved Shogun World, even if it felt kind of filler-y. The idea of doppel hosts existing in the different parks and what that could mean didn't occur to me before this episode, but I really love that addition to the show and look forward to seeing more implications of that as it relates to the hosts' burgeoning self awareness and sense of individuality. I also think the excursion is justified by how it shows that the hosts have changed in ways we couldn't see if we were just in Westworld. Like, how they used to just default to the speaking the language of whatever human was talking to them, but now they can't do that unless they figure out how to access that programming themselves, which I think is an interesting hiccup. It also forced Maeve to learn how to use her admin powers via mesh network telepathy and served as a way to illustrate the similarities and differences between how Dolores and Maeve are operating as leaders. Maeve immediately has empathy for Akane and decides to deviate from her main quest to help her out, and she doesn't force her to change when Akane doesn't want to. Dolores has shown no empathy for anyone at all except her father and is willing to change Teddy into someone entirely different to serve her own ends. I'm really curious as to why Dolores still hasn't given herself the same kind of admin access Maeve has, and is still carrying a tech around whenever she needs to look at or tweak programming. Does she not know she can do that?

idk, I thought that was a clever bit of irony on the show's part, to show that in so many ways, Henry would have made for a much better spy than Paige, with his independence, intelligence, talent with computers, the connections he's forming at the uber prestigious prep school, and his natural perception of people and situations is way higher than Paige's. True, he never suspected or questioned his parents the way Paige did, but he was also being neglected by them in favor of her by the time he was the age when she found out, and so decided to go off and focus on his own life.

Given the revelations of the last episode, my thinking is that the finale ends with at least one Jennings dead, and the rest of them ending up in witness protection in America after defecting, not because they necessarily want to defect to America, but because they will have worked to prevent the coup of Gorbachev so that the summit and continuing arms reduction negotiations are a success, and they can't go back to Russia because they'll land themselves on a kill list for the pro-coup elements in the Soviet government. they will receive this protection in exchange for the vital role they'll have played in protecting a pro-peace, reformist Russian government and for detailing to the FBI absolutely everything there is to know about the illegals program and their tradecraft, which leads to situations like the American government knowing certain people are spies almost immediately and secretly bugging their houses for 10 years.

Re: Phillip's suit shopping- I get the funereal vibe from it, but I guess I can get what the J's were talking about too- Everything is crumbling in Phillip's life. He's losing his business, he's just felt like he betrayed and lost someone who was a good friend and who he just learned was actually a WAY better friend than he even knew he was taking for granted, he's just admitted to betraying his wife and she may very well leave him over it if she doesn't kill him for it, he's losing his relationship with his kids. To quote a common theme for this season, everything has gone to shit. I could see someone deciding to splurge on luxuries because why not? you're losing everything anyway, might as well take advantage of any remaining credit before there's no credit left. but i prefer the funereal interpretation.

more and more, I am just super worried over who will die, because I just feel like at least one person has to, and no matter how irredeemable the Jennings are, I'm just so emotionally invested in them as characters that I can't bear to even think about seeing them die. It's super infuriating, because both Holly and Matthew have done the "my character dies" thing, where they say it in a joke-y preseason interview context, so it can't be taken seriously as a spoiler, but saying something like and then it actually turns out to be true in hindsight is totally something I can imagine Matthew doing. I don't want that though! Phillip dying will be the most painful thing, even though he seems the most prepared and ready to die character. There's just too much foreshadowing of Phillip's death for me to actually believe they'll go through with it rather than subvert expectations. Holly mentioning in interviews that her last scene is super heartbreaking leads me to believe that either Paige dies, or one or both of her parents die saving her. I'm not a Paige hater at all, but I just really hope it's only Paige, seriously. Best case scenario, no one dies and the super heartbreaking ending is saying a permanent goodbye as the family splits due to some life-or-death forced separation, like her parents are going into witness protection after defecting or they're going on the run and can never contact her or Henry ever again.

Re: Renee, cause I just can't seem to let it go, lol- I read a really interesting comment on the avclub review about her possible purpose, and if she doesn't turn out to be a failsafe operative of some sort, her purpose could simply be as an illustration of the damage wrought by Phillip and Elizabeth's deception on Stan's psyche. She could just be kind of a weird person and not really suspicious, but after the Jennings are caught (assuming they are), the hugeness of the betrayal will permanently break his ability to trust anyone, and the relationship with Renee will be an example of that. She could say something slightly off like University of Indiana instead of Indiana University again, and it launches Stan down a paranoia spiral the same as it did us, lol. But it will be so much sadder for Stan, because it's his wife!

I have to wonder how he comes to suspect Pastor Tim knows the truth at all. Maybe they figure out the World Council of Churches is a Soviet front organization, and Stan connects the dots about Paige's old pastor working there? I just don't know why Stan would approach him as if Tim knows Phillip and Elizabeth are spies and then try to appeal to any sense of American loyalty in him to corroborate Stan' suspicions. If Stan thinks this guy knows the truth, then he should be thinking Pastor Tim is a willing Soviet asset who wouldn't just give the Jennings away if the FBI interrogates him.

I find it interesting that in this season, both Phillip and Elizabeth did something that felt like a point of no return after sleeping with targets that reminded them of their children. Phillip warned Kimmie not to go to any communist countries while she was in Greece, basically giving the game away that he was a spy the whole time to this daughter of a CIA officer, and Elizabeth let Jackson live after he's pretty much let her know explicitly that he's figured out she's a spy, and I don't think it's a stretch at all to think he reminded Elizabeth of Henry. Because her letting him go was really the major turning point, imo, even moreso than questioning and refusing a direct order from Claudia. Like, Stavos let us know this episode that the Jennings have been much sloppier about their tradecraft than they knew they were, but these two, deliberate actions of refusing to harm these kids they've used as agents in a way that obviously compromises operational security just makes me think they're both subconsciously in a place where they won't mind getting caught.

At this point, Renee is going to be confirmed as an undercover operative for one three letter organization or another, or this is the most epic troll job by showrunners that has ever happened. I have to wonder if the fact that Phillip and Elizabeth are now both conspiring to work with the pro-treaty faction will only serve as tragic dramatic irony when they're finally taken down or if it'll be the leverage they need to safely defect, because their willingness to inform on the anti-Gorbachev conspiracy will be valuable enough to the US government to ignore their litany of crimes.

ooohhh, I actually really like this idea. And the imagery of Paige jumping off a bridge rather than getting caught not only calls back to her baptism, but Martha's brief bridge jumping contemplation when she was found out. Martha was ultimately strong enough to keep living and escape into an unknown new life, alone. I don't think Paige is strong enough. And she's impulsive enough to do something like that too. Paige has never been one to think through to the consequences of her actions.

That would probably be the best case scenario for Stan, tbh. If something like that happens, it will be the only thing that could probably ever convince him the entire friendship wasn't a malicious lie. Like, this would never happen in the show, but I always liked to imagine this scenario- post Jennings imprisonment, that Stan finds out Phillip was so protective of him that he secretly had Renee tailed to make sure she wasn't a spy, because I just found that so heartwarming, in that hilarious Americans way where snapping a dude's neck rather than turning him in for cash is heartwarming. How betrayed Stan would feel about Phillip is one of the most tragic stories in this series, so at the very least, I want him to know that Phillip genuinely cared about him, even if he was lying about his identity and was technically his enemy who occasionally probed him for information on FBI activities.

lol, thanks! Yeah, I saw the mention of the variety article a few days ago, which I had totally forgotten about. It actually relieved me because I was so sure Elizabeth could possibly have been killed before the series finale, just from the episode title "Jennings, Elizabeth". But if that's not from a morgue toe tag, it must be something else. I'm thinking an FBI file. It's difficult for me to imagine the Jennings being on the run in the last episode, but that could very well be the case. The episode description for the series finale is "The Jennings family face a choice that will change their lives forever." Maybe Paige dies and they defect? I can't imagine them being allowed to defect though, after all they've done. Maybe the synopsis is deliberately being cute, and the choice that "will change their lives forever" is killing themselves rather than going down. I can't see them going back to Russia after the show has already played around with that possibility more than once, with them ultimately refusing to go back. They missed their first and second chances for that- It must be too late this time. Or they separate. In the pilot episode, Phillip was willing to defect, and Elizabeth refused. Until he found out Timoshev raped Elizabeth, they probably would have split up. but instead Phillip killed Timoshev and committed to Elizabeth, and committed to being a spy, for her. That was the start of their marriage being real. I could see them ending the show with the scenario finally playing out- someone defects, and the other goes on the run or goes back to Russia or goes to prison. The marriage ends.

Long time lurker, just registered and am posting for the first time. So, inspired by the insanity and breadth of no-stone-unturned effort the Westworld fandom goes into when trying to find spoilers, I took a page from their book and looked up the stunt performers listed on imdb for the last three episodes. No main cast stunt doubles listed for tomorrow's episode, but Matthew Rhys's stunt double is listed for the last two episodes, and Noah Emmerich's stunt double is listed for the finale. There's also stunt drivers and water safety people, so make of that what you will. Also, don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I watched Holly Taylor's Build Series interview, and she talks about Paige's last scene of the series being very sad and taking place outside, because she was remarking that it was her series wrap scene, which are usually super emotional for everyone on set regardless of the content, but that all anyone could focus on was how much they wanted to finish and go home because of how cold and miserable and late it was.