Goatherd

I'm curious, is the alphabetical naming a typical Mike White thing? This can't be random, can it? Staff starts at A: Armond, Belinda, (not sure the others as I haven't tracked staff names all that well Guests start at M and are grouped by family: Mark, Nicole, Olivia, Paula, Quinn. Rachel, Shane. Tanya

Why are all those northern lords still gathered at Winterfell? Don't they have their own houses to manage? Or is that some bi-weekly council meeting? Count me in for thinking the Wight-on-a-leash plan is ill-conceived. Which of those brilliant strategists really thinks that evidence and logic are the ways to sway Cersei into unselfish actions?

The unreality and unanswered questions are pulling me out of the story as well. Like, what's going on in the other sections of the prison? Max? Psych Ward? Are those sections functioning normally? If not, can we get a visit from Lolly, please?

Why did the one of the Greek chorus say something about how this never would have happened, if not for Jane helping Madeline when she fell, on orientation day? I assume they mean "if those two had never become friends," but even then, how would that have changed the course of a fight that was primarily between Perry and Celeste? I realize we were given some reasons as to why Jane had never met Perry (e.g. he wasn't able to attend orientation), but wouldn't it have seemed odd at some point that Jane had never met her friend's husband? Maybe I need to re-watch to see if this was ever mentioned. I really liked the show, and I would wish for a Season 2 just because I will miss spending time with these actors and characters, but I understand the sense that the story has been told.

So, if Carleigh had chugged down a couple pints of water when she heard the med boat coming, she might have won? That's...frustrating.

I can't help comparing this show to Pure Genius -- same idea, different industry. I'll give this one a chance, but so far I like Pure Genius better, and even that one is on thin ice. I haven't heard the term "disposable" before, but it's a good fit.

Since the show did play the anagram game after all, with Arnold Weber / Bernard Lowe... should we make anything of the fact that Dolores Abernathy spells things like "Obey Arnold, haters" or "Arnold, a byte's hero" or "Bear ye Arnold, host"...?

I feel the need to mention my favorite part of this episode: Logan's grammatically correct use of the word "whom." Bravo, Logan! You may be a bad boy, but you got a good education along the way.

Something I think I noticed -- please correct me if I don't have this right. Maeve, with Hector in tow, is planning to try to leave the park. Presumably this means she wants to get on the train that guests use. Charlotte is planning to have Peter Abernathy leave the park, to smuggle out the data he's holding. Maybe on the same train...? So...what happens when those three meet up? Does Maeve "wake up" Abernathy? Would be funny if she "violent delights" him, thus completing a short loop of that phrase (Peter --> Dolores --> Maeve --> Peter).

For what it's worth, I'm assuming her "re-awakening" has to do with the recent addition of Reveries, which is giving her access to memories of what happened 30/35 years ago.

It does seem like you're not enjoying it. As for me, I'm delighted by a show that rewards careful watching, re-watching, freeze-framing, and note-taking. (Yep, I've done all those things.) I like that the clues that have been left suit different types of watching. For example, I am the sort to notice the changing logo and the different WANTED posters seen by different guests, but I'd be less likely to notice the costume changes that others have kept track of. This feels like a very modern show -- one that knows we're watching via DVR or through HBO GO, and expects us to share our crazy theories on discussion boards. From my friends who enjoy the show but are not obsessed with it, I hear that it's also enjoyable to watch in a "just let the story be told" way. So while I felt a shiver in my skin at "What door?", they got the same feeling a few minutes later at "It doesn't look like anything to me." I'm seriously impressed at what they've crafted in this show. The revelations are exciting, but so are the way they are revealed. Netfoot, if you still have questions about how it all fits together, I'm sure you can get your answers here. For example, they've shown us that Dolores IS traveling out of her loop in the present -- she's re-tracing the entire voyage she took with William. So that explains the scene where Stubbs was informed she was off her loop. No handwaving required. Yes, we were all fooled (at first at least) by the edit that then showed her approached by the sheriff back in the time of her William trip. Just like we were fooled in episode 1, thinking that Teddy was a guest. And we were fooled into thinking that Bernard was a human. But that's part of the game that makes this show special -- it invites participation, speculation, and active involvement. That's what I came to the show for, since I know what Nolan can do. And if you just don't like what they've created, and want to keep expressing that here, that's cool, too.

So what happens when "dead" Bernard is found? Everyone discovers he's a host, and then what? Surely they'll guess that Ford created him and has been fooling them all this time.

FYI the author of that article also has a podcast called Decoding Westworld. It's a good complement to this site for theories and deep dive speculations about the show.

I considered this a few episodes ago, but: Logan's sister "rode a few cowboys" when she visited the park. And Theresa said she had visited the park once, as a child. So....eww. Also, Theresa is referred to as Danish, and Logan doesn't seem to be, so that would be a bit of a stretch to explain. As for the "welcome" video, I don't see it as odd that it uses the greeter host who has been repurposed for an in-park role (likely very recently), any more than it's still showing Maeve as a farmer when she hasn't been in that role for a year.

LOL arc. Although I do believe in the two timelines, your last ditch effort is a good one! What amuses me is the thought that the showrunners maybe had no idea the viewers would figure this twist out so early. They gave us Host Bernard as the big mid-season reveal, and maybe seeing Dressing Room Host this week is supposed to be our first real "Whuh???" moment that makes us scramble back through all the preceding episodes to make sense of it. Then the giant timeline "reveal" will come in the final episodes. And to be fair, there's zero chance I'd have come up with the theory on my own. But the Internets are pretty clever...maybe more so than the writers expected.

Huh? Original Clem was only recently retired (present day). Up until that (also present day), she's been working for Maeve. But longer ago, Clementine was the madam (Stubbs specifically told us she used to play that role). So 30 years ago, when William first visited, he saw Clementine (but NOT Maeve) out front of the saloon. Back then, Maeve was in the park, but she was in a different role, maybe not even near Sweetwater. So Maeve-as-madam is always present day or fairly recent, since she was only given that role about a year ago. Maeve's rebellion is current.

DarkR, that's the timeline I'm assuming as well. But I'm still confused about the Arnold timeline. We've been told Arnold died before the park was open to visitors. But Ford also talked about losing a bet with Arnold, because people (presumably guests) chose the kill/rape storylines over the ones Ford hoped they'd enjoy. Okay, maybe that was a beta test period, where there were guests but the park wasn't really "open"...? But there's also the quote mentioned above, about Arnold not wanting to let Delos in. If Delos is the company that Logan/William are a part of, were they in the picture before the park even opened? That would mean the money troubles pre-dated Arnold's death. The only way I can make sense of that is if the Ford/Arnold argument was about "money men" in general, and Ford is adding his own spin to that memory by specificying Delos. One other note -- interesting part of MiB's story about his wife, where an apparent "tragic accident" was really a suicide. Reminds me of Arnold's "accidental" death (which some folks here have suggested might have actually been a suicide). Hey, maybe working beside Ford every day is as unpleasant as being married to MiB!

Another thing we got confirmation of is that Maeve is an "original" -- she was present for pre-park dance instructions. It seemed obvious from her skills that she's an Arnold Series 1, but it's nice to have her age affirmed.

At last the big reveal: Dolores is Legolas! But seriously, major props to those who figured this one out. I saw zero signs of it. How the heck did you folks do it??

I'm assuming the dog counted as the fifth anomaly? Because otherwise, we've got one robot hiding.

And yet MiB specifically left enough of Kissy's blood in him for him to keep functioning, so there's some relation between blood and the ability to function...right? I'm curious about what "kills" a host. Do they breathe? If not, how did Maeve get strangled to death? And even if there's a trigger for them to "act dead" if they are in a situation that would kill a human, why did she need to be sent in for repairs after being strangled, rather than just being switched back on? But in a larger sense, there's a whole lot I'm willing to hand-wave. I didn't need to understand how dilithium crystals power a starship; I just needed to know they were required. Similarly, I feel like if a certain technology is important to the story, they'll explain it. But for me, it's enough to know that "special guns used by hosts and guests cannot shoot guests; real guns carried by security are painted red" -- I don't need to understand exactly how this is done. I don't care whether hosts digest the food they eat, or store it in a pouch that gets emptied at night. But seeing how they form sentences, how they "think," is very interesting to me! Some things are clearly in place for the sake of TV -- I think the giant park map is especially unrealistic, and I chuckle at the techs standing around looking at it. But I admit it's visually interesting and lets us know where we are. When Elsie barked instructions at an assistant with a computer, of course she could have made the changes herself, but the conversation allows the audience to listen in. Every TV show or movie that features computers or hackers has had to find ways to make it more interesting than actually watching a hacker. I'm fine ignoring those parts in order to get on with the story. But I respect those that are curious, and who want the world-building to be extensive, detailed, consistent, and scientific. It would be great if there were resources for those people -- perhaps websites that dive into the details of RFID-enabled bullets and nano-batteries in robot blood.

I think I know why Ford went to visit MiB. He wanted to ask him about his search for the maze, and decide whether to allow him to pursue it. Once Ford made his decision, he gave a code phrase to Teddy to release a new part of the program updates he had previously uploaded. At the time, it seemed like his command just made Teddy stand up quickly and say he was ready to get going. But in this episode, MiB even refers to the programming change ("I think Robert gave you some extra vinegar back there, maybe took away some sense, too...") and he is deferring to Teddy to decide where to go. So whatever code phrase Robert gave is determining where MiB is heading now. And who knows where that is -- Teddy says the tunnel goes to Pariah, but it could actually lead somewhere...mazier.

I think I'm missing something. Where is the "Bernard is a robot" speculation coming from? Does it help explain something we've seen, or solve some otherwise unresolvable anomaly? Because I'm not seeing it. I haven't seen a single thing it helps resolve, and I can think of a dozen things that would have to be further explained or wriggled out of (e.g. who knows he's a robot? who maintains him? what's the long-term effect of having a host whose memory is never wiped? why don't people notice he hasn't aged in twenty years?). It would also (for me) make the character almost completely uninteresting, because we'd be watching programming play out as designed, rather than watching a human with his own aims, goals, hopes, and sorrows. Ford stated that Bernard was human, when he said that Bernard is the culmination of trillions of mistakes (they may have made thousands or millions of mistakes designing the hosts, but "trillions" is clearly referring to human evolution). But if we're going to doubt everything Ford or others have told us, then I suppose all theories are equally likely. Also -- Ford explained why his "ghost father" looks like Arnold -- it was explicitly addressed in dialog. So why are people coming up with convoluted suggestions that host-Bernard is really Arnold, and the photo we saw was actually showing Ford, Ford's father (have we heard that he ever even visited the park??), and Arnold, but Bernard was unable to perceive Arnold in the photo. To go that far away from what we've observed and been told, we'd have to stomp on Occam's razor, then burn it, then throw it out the window. These seem like theories for the sake of making theories. I like trying to figure out what clues the show-runners may have left for us (yes, the changing logo included). But in the absence of any clues, this feels more like fan-fic or "If I was writing this story, I'd make this guy a robot!" type of thinking. And, of course, I'm leaving myself wide open for you all to mock me when these theories are proved true eventually....sigh....

Two random thoughts... 1. When we're standing in a field of crosses, I keep half-expecting the camera to zoom up to an overhead view that reveals they're forming the pattern of the maze. Not the ones on the cliff above Pariah -- those seem to be clearly in long straight lines. But in one of Dolores's weird memory-flashes, she's near some cross grave markers that are in a vaguely circular pattern. Combining this with the voice Dolores heard saying "Find me," and the memory-flash of her digging up a grave, I think there's an actual physical location for the maze, and something's buried there. 2. I keep wondering if we're going to meet (or have already!) some member of Logan's family. (Yes, based on the assumption that Logan's family invested in the park some 30 years ago.) I even wondered if Theresa could be Logan's sister (i.e. William's fiancee), but we know she visited the park as a child, making Logan's comment that she "rode a lot of cowboys" pretty gross. But if the family did invest (and I'm assuming that's what MiB is referring to when he says he saved the park), it could be reasonable for some family member to end up working there. Could Stubbs or Elsie be a child of William or Logan? All longshot guesses, I'm sure, but I would be surprised if we *don't* discover some familial tie eventually.

I'm thinking it will be the Delos lady. omg I read this and thought you meant that the Delos lady will be the one to kill Sizemore. I loved this idea so much that I couldn't bear to ask what on earth you were basing this on.