Marie Claudine

I wish I knew the name of the egg lady from U4EA. You know, the store clerk whom Steve wants to exchange the egg. I'd be curious what else she was in. Probably nothing much, but I'd be curious all the same. I loved that extra. On imdb, I found the name of Marilyn Pfitzer as "woman" in that particular episode. Anyone know if that's her? If so, I could continue looking around for her...

I didn't mind when David dropped Camille like a hot potato. I didn't mind that Donna basically fired her after she had gotten back with David. I didn't mind that Kelly urged her on. I know they were all in the wrong, wrong as can be! But I just couldn't stand Camille (for no good reason, might I add), and was otherwise past caring :-).

That is a very good point. Cheating on your unsuspecting husband and then raising another man's child in his name is risky in any household, but doing that to the king at that time in history should strike fear into the heart of any halfway reasonable person. Anne is probably anxious around her little boy even when he's thriving; when he's sick, I do see how she might lose her head and turn to any friendly face that looks her way. I agree that Aramis probably has another thing coming. With the cardinal hinting from the grave, so to speak, that he knew all of Aramis's sins, Aramis's clumsy attempts to get close to the Dauphin, his stares at the queen and his weirdo "affair" with the nanny, it doesn't look like calm waters are ahead for him. I don't mind though. I like Aramis-centred storylines :-).

Heh, that's true. I guess what bugs me is that Anne, who so far has seemed relatively perceptive, gentle and friendly is totally unable to pick up on his blatant psychopath act. I would prefer it if he were a creep around everyone but her. But he also is a creep around her. She just inexplicably doesn't notice, which makes her look a bit daft. But oh well, if it leads to fun storylines, I won't complain :-).

I agree with the previous comment about Constance/ Anne. It seems like Anne did a pretty unusual thing making a cloth merchant's wife, who is friends with her husband's soldiers, a lady in waiting. It would seem that she did it because she really trusted Constance, or indeed everyone loosely connected with the Musketeers, so it's strange that there is no real interaction now that she went this far. I also didn't quite understand why it was necessary to bring the Dauphin into town. Louis was horrible, of course, but he wasn't entirely wrong. There are risks and diseases there for an overprotected baby that is still on the breast (plus, since this is before breast pumps, the sick baby would not have had any food or drink the entire night). Were there no laundry rooms in the palace? On a shallow note, I really like Constance's hair in the episode, but not so much Anne's. It seems strangely yellow to me, and she is the only one who has more of a tan now. Aramis missing his opportunity to shoot because he saw the woman and the baby was pretty harsh, and I wish they had followed up on that. I mean, afterwards there was a pretty big mess, which would also damage the people's trust in the Musketeers; and Aramis isn't usually the Musketeer who takes deaths (most of all the death of innocents) the most lightly. Rochefort annoys me, too. A person would need to be blind and deaf to overlook that he is a creep. I wonder when Anne will wake up and realize this. I must confess I miss Richelieu. Looking forward to the next one - and hoping for Athos/Milady scenes when Athos finds out about Louis and her.

I am a wee bit tired of the mad parents all around. It was fun with Henry, but the Catherine/long dead Henry bed scene was a bit too much now. Then again, I was never a fan of the supernatural allusions on Reign. That said, I find I settled quite comfortably into watching this show, although it still annoys my socks off. The prompt burning of the rapist did not ease my anger at the unnecessary rape scene. Also, angry Francis is funny to me because of the way he keeps his eyes wide open. "I'll stare you down, fiend, by the sheer openness of my eyes! Can you see the white of my eye? Can you?!?" I found myself feeling sorry for Narcisse, who doesn't deserve my pity, but I am glad he lives and am looking forward to seeing what else will happen to him/with him. On the down side, I did get a wee bit annoyed that the Leith/Greer/Castleroy triangle still seems to be going on on some level. I fear the show might kill off Castleroy and lead Greer to Leith with Castleroy's blessing, or some such nonsense, which I would regret because although I don't mind Leith, I love Castleroy. But I shouldn't make predictions, they are always wrong when it comes to this show. Finally, what on earth is wrong with Claude? I get that she is pining for Mommy's love, but being spoon-fed at her age to resolve an argument does ring weird instead of moving, doesn't it?

The funny thing (going back on topic and back to the college years, sorry!) is that the show was pretty sensitive about rape later. I mean, Crazy Laura may be viewed one way or the other, but the storyline regarding her, flawed as it was, made it pretty clear that saying no means no, under all circumstances. Same with when Kelly really got raped; nobody said something about her walking alone. When Donna was stalked nobody said it was because of her cleavage. Rightly so!! So my point is, our show managed to get in rape storylines quite a few times without blaming the victim. I have no idea why on earth they went a different way at the High School Halloween.

I hate the Kelly slut shaming. It is probably Brenda's worst moment ever. "I tried to tell you the dress was a little much". Excuse me??? Now I don't need to tell you that no matter what dress, you may still say no and expect not to be raped. But aside from that - even if it had been Kelly's fault (which it absolutely 100% wasn't), it would still have been an abysmal thing to say to a friend who's just been attacked and is shaking and crying. I know Brenda tries to salvage it later by saying that no matter what Kelly said or did before, the attempted rape was not ok, but at this point she had already implied that Kelly was at least partly to blame. And I can't even excuse that by saying that Brenda was young. One, I experienced a situation that was similar, though much less horrible, with a friend at the same age, and none of us would have dreamt to say anything that implied she was to blame. And two, much more important, this is a TV show. What the blazes were the producers trying to teach the watching teens by including the slut shaming shit? Not to mention that on the scale of sluttiness displayed on the show, Kelly's dress doesn't even make the top ten. In fact like you said, all of Donna's holiday outfits trump Kelly's dress with tantalizing ease.

I love Donna's pantless bunny outfit - in combination with her righteous anger! Heh. So funny. I really like Donna's look in Season 4. Particularly in the episode where Stuart proposes and the Walshes celebrate their anniversary. Brenda looks pale and like she just overcame a stomach flu, and Kelly looks somewhat washed-out, but Donna is great with the natural look, with her tanned skin and white dress and for once, not a ton of make-up. But later in college, that changes! In the scenes where she's with the firefighter who grew enarmoured with her deer-saving ways (forgot the name just now), during the black-out, she looks nearly scary. Although of course he compliments her supreme beauty :-). And in the scene after the boat party with Prince Carl, the prince of Montmartre (hah! the mere existence of that character will never not be funny to me!), her skin is so orange, her teeth so white and her hair so yellow, she practically glows in the dark. And when that creep tries to rape her, she looks like a clown. And don't get me started on those pigtails she has later on...! Wardrobe was really hard on poor Tori. She isn't a natural beauty, but when they made an effort with her, didn't dress her grotesquely, didn't cake on hairspray like there was a prize for that, didn't dress her like her wardrobe threw up on her, and didn't paint on her lipstick so far beyond her lipline that I can see it from my sofa on my tiny 90s TV screen, she is actually rather cute.

Nope, me neither. I always kind of took Brenda's side on this, but now that my little girl is approaching the same age - hell to the no! But if I agreed to let her go (again: wouldn't happen), I'd be badgering her with safety questions immediately after agreeing. "You can go if you make sure to look up the emergency numbers they use in Mexico first. And you need to have sunscreen. And what kind of ID will you need? Make sure you check if the driver's licence is enough!" She would get in and out of Mexico very smoothly due to remembering my initial health and safety freak-out, even if I rescinded permission later.

I'd also have to go with Kelly. I liked her hair, and IMO Brenda's gloves and hairdo just looked like she was trying too hard. But to be honest, I think both of them looked a bit like Minnie Mouse in that dress. Brenda wins for my favourite line of the night: "Kelly, I don't give a damn!"

I agree, Qoass. I think Dylan loved the Walsh family dynamic, and his place in it. And since he also loved Brenda and she was loyal to him, she was a great fit. But as soon as her family fell away and it was just her and him, he seemed annoyed at her at first, and shortly after his interest started to waver. I think if the Walshes hadn't allowed him back in, he would have gone to Kelly for good a lot sooner than he did. From a narrative point of view, I think the triangle was a good idea. It spiced things up, it was well-written, and my teenage self thought it was sexy back in the day. However, I am strictly speaking of the summer. In contrast, that whole time in the fall when Dylan can't decide and both girls fawn over him? Not my cup of tea. It's a sad testament to two young girls if Cindy "Jim, what will I do, you're absenteee-heee" Walsh feels the need to tell them to have some pride.

I also quite enjoy Donna's ridiculous addiction to painkillers. She gets into them because of her back pain. Her back isn't treated, yet at some point she just quits. So what about that pain, I wonder? Did she meditate it away from there on out? Because if I recall correctly, the doctor told her she would need some treatment, which she didn't get, and backs, in my humble experience, seldom get better from hunching at your desk for long hours as Donna proceeds to do after her accident. Not to mention that her dad, the famous doctor, doesn't insist she gets her back checked out when she tells him she's in pain. But in the end, the back is just forgotten, and your friendly neighbourhood Dylan hand-me-down Noah takes care of the situation. Because as a recovering alcoholic, he obviously knows exactly how long just any drug addiction takes to be cured. Problem solved. If only Kelly and Single White Tara had known how easy it was, they wouldn't have hung around in that rehab facility all this time! (On second thought, maybe Donna's back pain was so bearable in the end because she doesn't actually have a backbone that could have hurt. So it must just have been cramped muscles or something. If she had a backbone, she wouldn't even have let that lying weasel Noah back into her home, after he had just cheated and taken advantage of a passed out woman without noticing a thing. No backbone, no back pain. It does make sense.)

I think they are now living in a shared house with Nancy Morgan, Donna's first mom, Val's little siblings Curt and Suzie whom we never met, and the Walsh's cleaning lady who magically disappeared at some point.

Oh God, the name combos! You are so right. Also, as soon as they get just a little more entangled than Brendylan, they start to confuse me. It's probably not a testament to my basic problem solving skills, but it always takes me a while to get them. I recently saw Sharknado II, while visiting friend in Germany. She has some German Pay-TV channel that showed the movie simultaneously to the US release, which is a rarity. Yay for Sharknado's international echo - or sad testament to its estimated worth :-)? I loved Ian Ziering in it. This guy gets hotter as he gets older (or maybe I think that as I get older). And this movie has a surprising sense of humour. I love it when IZ isn't serious, even when he's just non-seriously pretending to be serious. I never particularly liked his heavy-duty dramatic storylines on the Niner ("DICK IS DEAD!"), but I am a sucker for his smile and over the top magnanimous gestures :-). Agreed that Jason is hot. I liked his book, so I am dangerously close to buying Jennie's, too, as soon as I find the time to read it.

Guys, this is the best news surrounding TV in some time! Yay! Excellent! Their Facebook startpage says: "Beverly Hills 90210 is coming to TVGN! SHARE if you can hardly wait!" I can't share it because I am not on Facebook, and can't watch it because I live in the UK these days, but I am still unreasonably excited about this :-). I'll just come here to check out where you guys are at and I'll watch along with my DVDs and catch up with you here. Such good news, Jeebus! I've been missing my regular dose of Niner gossip.

It's all particularly weird because his first day at West Bev, he did meet two great friends for life: Steve and Andrea. He could have just said that. There was a story there, too. Why make it a story about Donna that we all know didn't happen? It wasn't even a better story than what had really happened. It was just utterly random. Also, Donna had basically no lines back then. So how could she have introduced Brandon to anyone? By saying "Tee-hee" and standing behind Kelly :-)? I really don't understand the S9 writers very well. Trying subtly to replace things you thought sucked in the earlier seasons is one thing. Simply telling another, but not superior, story for lack of memory or trying is quite another.

I actually liked coked up Kelly better than judgmental beige Kelly who resided between her old boyfriends at her own birthday "party" (read: concert that was so not for 20 year-olds!), holding both their hands, while her boyfriend blew her off to paint the world's most childish pastel-coloured cake painting. Coked up Kelly was entertaining at least, and sometimes snarky, and actually she sometimes really laughed. Is it a sad testament to the show's writing that I like her better in her inebriated sad endangered days than her happy and heathy ones - or is that a sad testament to me :-)? Plus, coked up Kelly led to the absurdity that is Single White Tara. I love Single White Tara. I know she's an acquired taste (she certainly was for me), but now I really appreciate the unintentional hilarity of her random psychological illness, her magical ability to afford $$$$$$$$ rehab as a homeless teenager, and the over-the-top, misfiring murder suicide plot.

Heh. I'm in, Runner!

@Chip, that's a good point - it's no good to seem too daunting to newbies and lurkers! I therefore wouldn't want to replace any other, more specific threads, of course - just add a general discussion one for those who wish to make more overarching remarks. But again, I don't insist - just thought it might help. Runner, I'd totally be up for a common rewatch, if people want it! That might definitely help. Anyway, thanks for weighing in, you guys!

Just a quick question, you guys, to hear what you think: This board seems awfully quiet to me, and I know it's probably because Soapnet is off the air. But even for that, it seems very quiet, especially since I know there are a lot of people on here who wouldn't mind rehashing old episodes from their memory :-). It's also not because of the site, which is wonderful - it's easy to use and has a nice layout, a friendly structure and overall a great feel. So I was wondering if it might be the way this section is organized. We have many small threads, but I was wondering if in addition to those it might be worthwhile to include another, which could be like what over at TwoP they called "General Gabbery" - where just anything about the show can be discussed, even if it extends a certain episode (or, in this case, a topic or cluster of seasons). In my experince, that's what many posters did over on TwoP: write posts about a character development over the whole of the show, jump back in forth in time to make a point, etc. What do you think? Would that make sense or do you think that it would rather take away from the individual threads? Looking forward to your opinions!

I must admit I never was one of those five people, but I still think Kelly shouldn't have been so bitchy. I get that in the end of Camille's run Kelly was on Donna's side in the whole David mess, although Donna's actions toward Camille weren't exactly great. But Donna and Kelly had been friends for over ten years at this point, so I get that Kelly stuck by Donna. What I don't get is why Kelly was bitchy to Camille even before that. Camille never did anything bad to anyone, and even if Kelly just didn't click with her, she could have played nice. Then again, I often got a bitchy vibe from Kelly when she was around new girls. She was territorial around her exes new girlfriends (although she did come around to Toni), and she was bitchy with Val and Gina (ok, she tried to be nice to Gina first, but turned bitchy as soon as she could), and even with Clare at first, although that subsided quickly. And the new girls she liked, she mostly tolerated rather than actively befriended, and only at some later point they sort of slipped into becoming friendly (like Janet or Carly). Funnily enough, the only new girls she really embraced in the course of the series were Brenda (and that was mostly because she didn't want to sit next to the overweight girl in lab class) and Crazy Tara. So I supose her behavior toward Camille was somewhat in character. I think Donna really changed post college. She cheated on Noah; she had no problem taking David from her own partner, then more or less kicked said partner out of the business altogether; she stole that other girl's designs when she had her back problems; and she maintained this really dull and unhealthy on and off relationship with Noah which essentially consisted of fighting, folding T-Shirts at the shop, apologizing to each other, then fighting again. Oh, and there was cheating, too. She was still portrayed as being positively angelic, but I think she changed a lot. I don't necessarily mind that she did, people change, but I thought it was probably the most palpable character change any of the characters underwent after college. I do, however, think, that it wasn't intentional; the writers still seemed to want pure sweet Donna, but some of their storylines, which in the last three years tended to be erratic and poorly thought out anyway, sort of contradicted that notion.

I think what I liked about Brenda's first time was that it wasn't such a big deal. She was 16, she wanted to have sex with her boyfriend, she had it, it was good. Fine. But there wasn't such a huge aura around the "first time" as there often was in television in the 90s (and sometimes still today). Basically, the show suggested that sex is just sex, that it won't make you a completely different person, it won't get you pregnant immediately, it won't make the guy run for the next adventure if you have chosen a good one. It also showed that you should wait until you want to, use protection, get tested beforehand, and only do it in a loving, monogamous relationship. I have a hard time understanding how this message apparently scared so many parents that they had to write and put pressure on the network to give Brenda a scare. To me, what the show did actually seems pretty responsible. Much more responsible than Brandon screwing a girl across the hall from his parents who had run away from home, who might not have been tested, and who suffered from severe problems, and whom he never saw again afterwards and didn't seem to miss. Yet he got to dance in the kitchen and Brenda got a pregnancy scare. Talk about unfair.

Thank you, Lisin! I did like the book, but, like the reviewer, could have done with fewer mentions of his friendships with Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt. We get it! But yes, I totally agree with Sara that that might have been a requirement of the publisher. He mostly mentioned that Shannon Doherty could be quite bitchy and that he confronted her about this in the very beginning of them working together; and he mentions that the three girls (Tori, Jennie, and Shannen) had lots of tension between them and frequent fights (he mentions a fight over a red dress for a promo picture in particular, but also says that this was only one memorable occasion among other, less memorable ones). I also noticed that when he described Tiffani Amber Thiessen joining the show, he said nothing about the early tensions that supposedly existed between her and Jennie before the two became friends; instead, he stresses how the athomsphere changed for the better with TAT on and Shannen off. I wondered a bit if those early tensions I have heard of in the past just weren't that important, or if he left them out on purpose (not to be too conspirational...). He also stresses that it was Shannen's behaviour on set (arriving several hours late for shooting, for instance) that got her fired, not the way she lived it up in her private life.

I finally found the time to finish Jason's book today! I, too, rather liked it, and he really comes across as a nice guy. Even where he's critical of people, he never forgets to mention their strengths and the good times he had with them. I quite appreciate that; in Tori's books I always got the vibe that she tried to incorporate foreshadowings of people's misgivings even when describing times when she was happy with them. I always dislike that. The way I see it, when you love people, you love them, and even if you fall out later,in most cases it doesn't mean that they were always horrible or never a good fit, it just means you parted ways at some point. Jason's book is really fair in that. Oh, and I was pretty surprised at how many people the guy knows in Hollywood. He may not have had a big time career beyond Beverly Hills 90210, but he certainly seems like a very affable person.