Marie Claudine

Me, too. The entire Toni thing, in fact, made very limited narrative sense, but I still liked them together. In particular, I liked how happy Dylan looked with her, happier then with anyone else. He hardly did any of the sighing and the crunching his forehead that were his go-to moves with both Brenda and Kelly. There is this one episode where Toni goes out for an errand in the morning, and when she comes home, Dylan says, rather cheesily: "I woke up and my baby was gone." The line is nothing to write home about, but he smiles a genuine smile when he says it, and just looks happier than Dylan ever looked. Luke Perry really did a good job selling what was one of the most improbable and least well developed love affairs on the show.

Awww, thanks! Right back at you! I am starting to love this thread; finally I can voice all the unpopular opinions I never admitted to myself. :-) Here's one related to the Kelly/Dylan mess: I should have disliked Kelly for going after Brenda's boyfriend, but really, I didn't. I liked Kelly at this point, she was very cute and relatable and teenager-y, and Brenda frankly got on my nerves with the entitled way she acted around her parents at that time. So even though Kelly was, objectively, totally in the wrong, I didn't much care. However, every time I get to season 5, I start blaming her in retrospect, because she gets so sanctimonious. I don't mind that she isn't perfect and did something rotten. That makes her an interesting character. I do mind that she did something rotten, then got holier-than-thou about the slightest transgression on the part of others. But honestly, had Kelly stayed the character she was in season 3 or even 4, she would have had my blessing with Dylan, wrong as their cheating was.

Here's another: I am not mad at Brandon for not taking Brenda's side when Dylan and Kelly cheated on her, but staying neutral. Yes, Brenda was his twin and therefore deserved his loyalty. But Dylan was the friend who had saved his life when he dangled from that rock at their camping trip. In fact I was glad Brandon did not forget that tidbit and for once did not get all sanctimonious. It made sense to me that he remained neutral, much as that has enraged other posters in the past.

I did, too, although I audibly snort every time he says "kismet". In fact I snort as I type this :-). I stopped liking them together when he became Jim 2.0, but of course by then he was nothing but a narrative Brenda-and-Dylan break-up device.

I must admit I that am totally opportunistic about this issue. Liked Dylan with Brenda, liked that they broke up when they started to get boring, also liked that he started things up with Kelly. It was a good narrative, I think. Didn't like the back-and-forth though, it made the girls look weak and Dylan look stupid. I also didn't like that he sort of kind of went back to Brenda toward the end of season 4. Season 4 Brenda is really not likeable to me, and Dylan drifting back towards her when she is at her most smug and haughty didn't do anything for me. Also, it just seemed as if he wanted the girl who was the least trouble, and after Brenda had been so accepting of him cheating, dumping her and making kissy face with her ex-bestie right in front of her nose, she certainly was the one who "understood" him (read: gave him less grief about getting his act together).

Yup, where did she go? Would she not have been at the Senior Breakfast herself? Lol, whenever I think of that girl and the related plot, I giggle. "Mary Ann gave him roses, and he broke her heart" - Andrea was soo dramatic! Because 16-year old girls always send roses to boys in their class, and nobody notices that unless the guy spreads inappropriate rumours during gym. M-hm.

Wow, it's been some time since I posted here! I always loved TAT, and had a soft spot for Val. I don't fault Kelly at all for telling Donna about Victor Malone's suicide. I would probably have told my best friends, too, especially at that age. Not because I was particularly mean (I don't think), but simply because I would have been deadly afraid that one of my friends might step in it with a careless remark à la "If I have to take this class, I'll kill myself" or "My dad would die if I did this or that" or something similar, around Val. I had a college friend whose mother died in an accident, and boy, are there many thoughtless metaphors with death references in them - and boy, did we cringe every time someone let one slip without thinking or knowing! The pothead thing, to me, was way worse, because it exaggerated Val's tiny slip from the straight Walsh path in a way that was simply hypocritical, coming from Kelly Taylor. This is one of the early instances of Kelly growing into little Miss Holier-Than-Thou. The judgemental face she kept making, after everything she had been through herself! In the later seasons, Val went over the edge. The Kenny Bennerman thing, for instance, was a bit much. But in the beginning, she wasn't exactly a Gina. She didn't deserve the huge amount of mistrust Kelly dished out. With Kelly and Val, I always got the impression that they were both jealous of each other. They just couldn't let it go. Agreed that Tom Miller was a babe. And somehow he seemed like the perfect guy for Val. Although I also quite liked her with David, I have to say.

Glad the ladies survived the finale! I think Milady is probably going to start working for Buckingham next season. I've really grown to like Anne over the past few episodes. Don't get me wrong, I always liked her, but she has grown to be more than just pretty, naive, and kind. I liked her queenly poise and courage when facing Rochefort. I also liked that Aramis tried to make a deal with god to get off the hook. A very human thing to do... Yay for Treville's promotion! Whatever happens next season, Louis will be advised better than he has been of late. Not sure he'll like that, of course.

You are probably right, ennui :-). What I meant to say was that I already didn't feel a lot of emotion from Santiago Cabrera in the scene where Aramis's secret is revealed to the musketeers. I didn't feel the emotions and the rift such a secret between the four of them might potentially bring; from the others, yes, but not from Aramis. But at least I got the impression that he felt genuinely uncomfortable, which I thought was mostly conveyed by his body language. In the arrest scene, I couldn't tell what he was feeling at all. Come to think of it, maybe that's what the actor went for, but in the moment, it felt a bit odd to me.

Agreed. I was a bit annoyed in this scene. I get that the musketeers are supernaturally brave and all that, but this was not just about Aramis. He knew that at this point, Anne and probably sooner or later the little boy were in grave danger. The logic of his character up to now would make it likely that he'd be scared for them, or at least outraged, but the "You start to get on my nerves" stare he went for instead did not convey that. He seemed to be more inconvenienced by the musketeers learning of his night with Anne than by Anne's life being in very real danger.

Great episode. Poor Lemay. I would have loved to keep him. Poor Rochefort. That eyepatch did not do him any favours, although I welcome any setback, even if it's just a mismatched eyepatch for now. And poor Anne. Not only was she nearly raped and is married to a whimsical grown-up child, her own brother would betray her, again. The Catherine plot was a bit of let-down. Was that it with her? On the upside, Athos and Milady were intriguing (unlike Constance and d'Artagnan, for whom I kind of root but who are a tad boring). With everything we've been seen of Aramis/Anne, Athos/Milady and d'Artagnan/Constance, I really think Porthos needs an exciting love interest next season, one that stays for more than one episode. I am really curious now who will survive the finale. Constance has a target on her back, but it's so damn obvious that I am starting to have doubts if they will really kill her off. The actress did a great job with Constance's horror/shock reaction when the doctor was executed, by the way. Things are also looking dire for Rochefort, although he might escape off to Spain or whereever, and haunt them from there. I was actually entertained by his evilness this episode. Now that he's acting on it and Anne can see it, I can stomach it so much more easily. I've been having some uncomfortable worries about Milady, whom I would hate to lose for this show, but whose redemption story might be topped off with an honourable death. That's a very standard narrative procedure. Take someone beyond redemption, redeem them as much as you can, then kill them off to forego the awkward question of where they'll go from there with the undeniable residuals of their evilness. I really hope that our writers found a way around that. For the sake of Milady, and for the preservation of snarky Athos. Steamy snarky Athos in today's episode! I've also worried about Treville, who I suspect will become captain again or die. I loved Treville in this episode, especially when Aramis's night with the queen was revealed, and Treville immediately jumped into his role of the captain again, just the way he handled the situation. As utterly annoying as Louis has been this entire season, and indeed this whole episode, I kind of liked how it was not at all easy for Rochefort to really turn him against Anne. Classic: Athos and Milady playing 7 Minutes in Heaven in Richelieu's closet.

Maybe that's Constance's one chance. Maid Marian never dies, but she did on the BBC. Constance always dies, so she might live on the BBC :-).

Indeed it has been renewed: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s235/the-musketeers/news/a626038/the-musketeers-to-return-for-third-series-on-bbc-one.html#~p6wUsSh72Dj8td Btw, I loved the dinner scene with Porthos's awful family, when the guy spit in Porthos's face, and Aramis immediately jumped to his feet, whereas Porthos remained cool and in control. It was nice to see Porthos handling this with such self-confidence; and I always like it when the boys are protective of each other.

You are right - not looking forward to that, if it happens. D'Artagnan did get over the violent death of his father in approximately two minutes, but I doubt he would swallow Constance's death quite so easily. Rochefort as a demon in the shadows might be fun. This way, I'd enjoy his obvious personality disorder more than now that he's first minister despite overly evident creepiness and delusions.

Poor Anne, surely, is the worst protected queen in history (or rather, the history of television?). I know Louis keeps whining about not being protected well enough, but what are they doing with Anne? I get that Rochefort "owns" her guards now, but they still would be there, right? Not in the room with him and her, of course, but in the antechambre. Which means when Constance opened the door, they would have heard the screams. Which means they would have approached, and found Rochefort on top of a struggling queen. And after that, if he said a word about Aramis, everyone would just think that the loon who attacked the queen got even loonier in his attempt to save himself. Alas, the guards where apparantly far away, as was the page of the door. Poor Porthos. Estate or no estate - I'm not sure it wouldn't have been nicer not to have found this family. And I agree: Constance is likely doomed. That blue dress is not a good foreboding for her. As for Rochefort, it seems that either him or Anne and the baby will perish very soon now. So unless they reverse history to the point where the Sun King got murdered in the cradle, Rochefort's prospects seem rather grim.

Yes, he does. If I recalll though, he is the typical affair guy, going after women who have husbands or other prospects. He's a disgraced former novice (invloving a story with a woman) who I think duelled against the king's rules, therefore had to lay low and become a soldier and has no access to family money; he's funded to a large extent by his rich mistresses and patronesses.

No kidding! This acting choice, I mean the ridiculous way of raising the hand with the ring like a shield, and that pseudo important look that accompanied it, really made me giggle. I actually usually like Marc Warren, but his choices for Rochefort are not really anything to write home about, at least in my opinion. I agree. The Musketeers were a junior guard regiment, which means getting in was easier than getting into the Garde du Corps or the chevau-légers (a type of light cavalry). But still, the Musketeers had many, many sons of nobles, usually impoverished nobles and usually second or third sons, who hadn't been eligible for the senior guard regiments, but nobles nontheless. In the novels, all four protagonists are from some kind of noble backgrounds, judging by their full names. But on the show? When it was revealed that Athos was the Comte de la Fère, Aramis did not react like a fellow nobleman, asking questions about the number of Athos's servants and such. So I am not sure where the show is going with Aramis's and d'Artagnan's backgrounds. But more importantly, they keep saying they have no money and no glory and that they are just soldiers, and Marguerite says she needs a prestigeous marriage. Plus, she kept seeing on a daily basis that the king did not favour his musketeers, so hopes for lands and titles would have been far-fetched. Therefore, it seemed to me that Aramis was never the kind of catch that could have pleased Marguerite's father. But then again, this is the show where the adulterous wife of some city cloth merchant becomes the queen's bestie overnight, because the queen likes the man who is friends with that lady's lodger (a royal connection indeed), and nobody objects :-). So you guys are probably right when you suggest that Marguerite was most likely fishing for marriage.

You are probably right. I just thought, the Royal nanny would probably be some kind of noble woman (although I shouldn't keep forgetting that this is the show where the queen makes a random cloth merchant's wife her closest confidante :-)!), and Aramis's "I'm beneath you" speeches also seemed to point towards her higher station. If she were nobility, her father would never have let her marry a musketeer, would he?

The one I find a bit weird is that we have never learned why she calls herself Milady de Winter - or did I miss something? In the books, it's simply because she was married to a man of that name for a time. But other names are there: Athos has been calling her Anne, which indicates that the show might be going with the name by which Dumas's Athos knew Milady when he met her, Anne Breuil. And she goes by Comtesse de La Fère, which leaves only two other names from the books that the show hasn't used (yet), and she has played Madame de la Chapelle during the Ninon de la Roque case, a name I don't reall from the books. Also, I seem to recall from Season 1 that Athos said that she has gone by many names (in the Rebellious Woman episode) - or is my poor mind mixing up books and show? So maybe there is more to come. I wouldn't be surprised if they did one episode with Lord de Winter sometime (in the books her former husband's older brother). One word on the nanny: I have never liked the character of Marguerite, I think she is silly and needy and frankly rather bland, but I think I am feeling a bit more interested in her, now that she has become Rochefort's spy. What I don't get: if she thinks the shame of hearing about her affair would be hard on her father, why was she fishing for a love declaration from Aramis? Why was she so vexed when he withdrew - leaving aside for the moment the way he did it, which, yes, was a bit generic and without grace ("It's for your own good - we had a good time - let's stay friends")? And was she not worried that she might get pregnant, unmarried? Would that type of shame not also have been hard on her father? Or would she not have cared if she'd had Aramis to ride into the sunset together? I would have appreciated if they had given the character a bit more meat, so to speak, especially since it looks like she is going to have a semi-important role for a while now.

Yes, I like that. RIchelieu had Rochefort exact, too. The man is bonkers, which is about the only thing that can be said to salvage his cartoonish evilness at this point. I will say that it was not very kind of Anne to give away a cross she had been given by Rochefort. Even more so since she put Aramis on the spot in Season 1 when he gave it to Ninon de la Roque (was that her name?) for comfort ("I did not expect my gift to you around the Comtesse's neck").

I love how the one giveaway for every mean person is always Spanish gold. It would be a lot less risky for Rochefort to pay his henchmen (and -women) with French gold, but he seems to want to get his Spanish funds into the French system at all cost. Loved Aramis's awkward face when Marguerite hugged him. I am curious what's in store for him and Anne. I was a bit shocked by how quickly the writers disposed of Monsieur Bonacieux now that Constance has finally chosen d'Artagnan.

Heh - good point! I laughed when I first saw that. Especially since she ordered Athos to fetch her something to wear, and next we see her she is wearing this very flattering outfit which doesn't exactly say: "I hate this woman and will jump at the opportunity to make her look like a sack of potatoes, so at least her looks won't trouble my already troubled mind" - which he easily could have done, had he just given her regular musketeer gear. I really like that they seem to try and redeem Milady. I know that's ridiculous, given her murderous record, but I enjoy her far too much to care sufficiently about that.

Actually, I thought it made sense. The real plague doctor masks were rarely white, and not as open from below. They looked a little like gas masks, but with a beak. What the henchmen wore looks more like the commedia dell'arte and Venice carnival version of these masks, which became very popular in the mid-17th century. There were other imitations of the plague doctor's masks throughout Europe in the 17th century, all white rather than brown or grey, some for carnival, some for masked balls, and they all had one thing in common: they were not so much considered bad taste, but an allegory, a kind of memento mori. People do not seem to have felt offended. In a presentation like the one with the henchmen, which showcased the eternal movement of the planets (as opposed to man's short and ineffective life), this seemed to me like an allegory which a 17th-century person would have easily accepted. Or at least not found suspicious or offensive. I agree very much with everyone who said that the ending was cheesy. I really enjoyed the episode - up until the last 5 minutes with Constance and d'Artagnan kissing and publicly not giving a damn about her husband, and Louis all but kissing Rochefort and publicly not giving a damn about the musketeers. It's getting old, and I still don't know when Anne and Constance became such inseparable friends. All in all, with last episode's battle and this episode's action, I feel like we are on the right track again, though. The first three episodes of this season had me a bit worried, but I feel like it has been uphill from there - even though I, too, think that exchanging Richelieu for Rochefort was a poor bargain indeed. The queen's sarcastic face when the king humiliated her with his little sun/moon/earth display was priceless. Also, it seemed like literally everyone present was done with Louis's shenanigans at this point - and he still didn't get it. He sure dotes on Aramis's baby, though :-). Oh, and I kind of loved how they needed four men to get Porthos into the dungeon, but only one for Rochefort.

Just as you suspect, this is a bit of a translation issue. In the French edition, she goes (among many other aliases) by Lady de Winter, because she is the widow of a young English lord from the de Winter family. She is then, half mockingly, called "Milady" by the musketeers, who use this title to remind each other of her (in their eyes conspicuous) ties with the English, her ability to pass as an English woman although she's French, and her activity as a spy between the two countries. It's a nickname, basically. Of course, that nickname makes a lot less sense in an all-English speaking environment! However, her signing as "Milady" or the king calling her that is just silly, and has little to do with Dumas's French original as I recall it from my teenage years! I've been wondering about this as well, because in the novel, Milady wreaks quite a bit of havoc with Anne's stolen jewlery. However, the plot in the novel differs considerably from that on the show, so the similarity might be purely coincidental and I might be waiting for something that will never happen at all...

My favourite line in the episode came from Athos: "Your visions are from soup, not God." I love Aramis, but this episode, he was nearly (nearly!) as daft as the queen. As for the queen herself, her stunt with giving Emilie an audience in the midst of a large group of haters of all things Spanish was absurd. What did she think was going to happen to her poor little boy if something happened to her? It's not like she hasn't been threatened before. That thought seemed to pop into her head only when she found herself facing a potential hanging - and encountered her baby daddy in the same tent. Then again, I like it if Anne is a bit more at the center of the action; I suppose I just like Anne. So I guess I can live with her exceptional show of stupidity. I have to say though, it wasn't just Aramis and Anne. Everyone's game was a bit off. "Saving" the Spanish ambassador by marching him across a crowded market - really? That was the best Treville, Porthos and Athos could do? And when the angry peasant killed Emilie's mother, they didn't bat an eyelash. They are usually very quick to interfere, but for all their sympathy for Emilie, they reacted very little in this instance (not that the mother was my own most mourned character). Rochefort, however, was his old self - his caricaturesque villainy never ceases to make me giggle or roll my eyes, depending on my mood. And Louis? Sure, I am certain Milady is quite the seductress, but even so, I was surprised at how far he went to please her. I would have expected him to think she should be grateful for his affections, instead of showing her this much (material) favour, but it seems she managed to instill at least some sense of realism in his vain mind. Go Milady, I guess. I really enjoyed Athos/Milady; and I agree with DCWash that bringing back the court surgeon was a nice touch. The man seems to have a thing for Constance, and I could see her developping a weakness for him. Not that Mme Bonacieux needs a third man in her life! My thoughts exactly. The next episode could be about anything, really. It also felt like next week's extras were in the promo because they had been promised as much in their contracts, but it remains entirely vague what role they will play.