arjumand

The part I quoted is absolutely my favourite bit, as it's the one that annoyed me most when I was watching. Seriously, it's fucking December when this happens - who the fuck answers the door wearing silky lingerie rather than a full-length fleecy dressing gown? Also, the phrases "do you know what time it is?" and "What the fuck do you want?" would have sprinted to my lips in such an occasion. But Susan is perfect in every way - she goes to sleep fully-made up and wearing lingerie, in case hot mayors suffering man-pain need to be cheered up at 3am.

It's not really valid to compare Oliver/Felicity with those other couples, though. Buffy and Angel had a massive stumbling block built into their relationship from the start. Also, like Elena and Damon, you had a teenage girl with her first true love, a man who was hundreds of years older than her. With Buffy and Angel, the idea was always that they would break up eventually, but Joss and co underestimated how much a teenage female audience would become invested in what they saw as a doomed and immature romance. That's why they pushed Marc Blucas as new true love so hard, even after realising the actors had zero chemistry. And I'm sure they forever regretted putting Spike and Buffy together in a fake engagement (a wizard did it!) only for the fandom to go apeshit, because no matter what the actors themselves thought, Spike and Buffy together sizzled. The main problem with Elena and Damon was the actors' real life relationship which, when it ended, impacted the onscreen relationship. Abbie and Ichabod were never in a romantic relationship, because the writers made sure to specifiy that Ichabod was a married man, and when the fans saw the chemistry between them, and started becoming vocal about their wish for Ichabbie, the writers/producers went so far as to bring his awfully acted and not at all true to the time wife back from the dead. Because racism (oh yeah, I said it. Come at me bros). Now I honestly don't know what's happening with Olicity on the show. I'm just watching it, and sighing occasionally. When I think of Felicity going dark, I cheer up slightly, imagining this: But then I get sad again, because it won't even be half as good.

OMG I think I got it! Her vagina is draining all the intelligence out of him! That's why when he saw a dead person in the lair he just blinked a little with that dumb look on his face! And now, if he keeps banging her, we'll have a legitimate reason for Oliver being the dumbest moron who ever moroned going forward. . . . I'll see myself out.

Yeah, I think it's part of the culture on AO3 not to give unsolicited concrit (except for the really obvious character-bashing fics), which is why a writer and her posse were so shocked last summer when someone dared give a very mild critique on a fic. Fanfiction.net, though - such a different mentality. That's where I get the most pushback and "actually, . . ." comments.

Oh, most definitely. The minute I saw that thing I thought, oh dear. What an unfortunate expression. Also, many chocolate Easter bunnies died to bring us this statue.

I just read it this morning (the latest one), and while it started out ok, the more it went on, the less I could reconcile it with Oliver, in my head. It's the speech rhythms, I think. He doesn't even sound, to me, like a guy who Also, I found the resolution rushed. I've read another fix-it for 509, which I liked, in which Oliver doesn't go to bang the reporter but decides to check on Felicity instead. I'll see if I can track it down. ETA: found it, it's called Tumbleweeds. I've just realized it's chapter 1 of who knows, so tread carefully, heh.

That's the thing - I've said this somewhere else, but it's as if they're still writing tv shows back in the 80s, when there were like a couple of shows on tv, or you could watch a movie, and that was it. Nowadays, I can watch a million other shows which I don't have to wait weeks in between for resolution. Last Spring I binge-watched Daredevil in a week. The other month I was sick and I watched The Crown over two days. And as an aside, I never thought I'd find the QUEEN OF MOTHERFUCKING ENGLAND more relatable than characters in Arrow, but there it is. Yeah, I said it. My point is, I don't have to watch Arrow. I choose to do so. And I can drop it, just as fast. PS Last weekend I watched a Korean zombie movie. In Korean. With subtitles. Where character arcs were more sharply delineated than I've seen on Arrow all year.

Well it meant as much as anything Felicity did this season - COMIC RELIEF ONLY. I'm just really tired of all this. Haha, Felicity is nervous about introducing Billy to Oliver. Then she makes a weird and awkward double date suggestion to Oliver and Susan, the latter looking at Felicity like something she stepped in. Because Felicity is actually a shut-in,you know, and doesn't understand this thing you call PARTY and APPROPRIATE CONVERSATION FOR PARTY. We're all scraping together hope because she never says she loves/loved Billy, she just (many /l/s 'liked' him). And Oliver thinks Susan is beyond hot (made a remark about her sexy dress). It's not true love, you guys! And now Felicity is going to turn into Dark Willow, apparently. Whatever.

Felicity was talking to Billy, at the Christmas party. The line was "I just want them to love you as much as I llllllllll-ike you." And then she intro'd him as her Malone-friend or some such nonsense.

Heh, I thought it was just Sam Winchester who had the 'penis of death'! Though I haven't been watching Supernatural, so I don't know if Sam's girlfriends still die after sleeping with him.

I get your first part - especially with the bit I noticed in second viewing, that you see Felicity when he says "no matter how much I love them". I could practically hear the (writers, EPs) yelling at me in the background. But you're right - whoever's shooting or watching the dailies or whatever just can't see how bad the optics are for some (most?) things they're showing Oliver doing. I wonder who's sending back notes with WTF in all caps, lol. To me it harks back to last year's visit or visits to William, and how bad it looked for Oliver to be haring off to another city to spend time with his son behind his wheelchair-bound girlfriend's back. It took them ages to accept that it looked bad, and their fix was to keep insisting that there was only one visit, the one we saw - which then begs the question, what the fuck was the point of all that? And now we've arrived at "Oliver gets sexually aroused by accidental murder." Sure, he just needed someone to talk to, because whoever wrote this needed a speech which was more naturalistic than voiceover narration. Plus, you get sexy lady in sexy lingerie which I'm sure is a bonus for someone. And I'm sure someone was whining pre-episode "We showed Felicity having her nooner* with her boyfriend, what about Oliver?" But this was not a good idea. *Shudder. Then vomit.

I agree with you that not much thought was given to this, which makes it even worse, IMO, because this year Oliver's the mayor! It's even more important for him to be inclusive now! I don't think there needed to be Hanukkah etc decorations, though that would have been nice. What there could have been is a little change on dialogue - Thea might have asked "how do you like my Christmas party?" and Oliver could have answered "Holiday party, and it's awesome!" it would have been a neat little wink to last year, much better than the "red pen flashback" which so never happened. But it just goes to show that we think so much more about this stuff than the people whose job it is to write it.

That isn't at all what I meant, and I am aware that Thea threw the party. I objected to the fact that he's back to calling it a Christmas party, when last year so much was made about the fact that it could be called a holiday party instead, to include all faiths; I didn't mean the party was in any way different. I also don't recall blaming Oliver (I meant the people who write him that way) for anything, only expressing some sadness and bitterness towards a show and EPs who expect their viewers to reset as fast as they do, in a "what a difference a year makes" kind of way. Maybe flashpoint erased that too, who knows.

Yes to all this. Also, I was strangely sad when Oliver said the equivalent of "awesome Christmas party, Thea!", because I wanted to mumble "I thought it was a holiday party . . ." Oh, I get it. You actually have to be sleeping with a non-Christian to bother with diversity. Don't mind me, just bitter. Sure, it was just a throwaway comment, and we're supposed to accept all the lack of continuity in service to jokes and such, just like with the comment of 'better than last year ' (note to awesome reporter: you know people died last year right?) - I'm just so tired of the fact that apparently every year we're expected to erase everything and start from scratch. I just remember all the gif sets of "It was a holiday party", from last year, when Felicity was kidnapped and Oliver found her. I can't even look at them anymore - just makes me feel sad.

Ok, so I went there. I took one for the team. I watched it a second time (waits for the shuddering to subside). Actually, I noticed something I hadn't before - during Oliver's "poor me, pity me" speech, we have the montage running, and when he says "no matter how much I love them", guess who we see? Yup, it's Felicity. Second, and yes, apinknightmare, that kiss seemed rather aggressive, the whole smooch was filmed weirdly. She basically kisses him, and then we have cut to him walking out of the elevator in the Arrow cave. In fact, when I watched it, my first thought was that Oliver has no staying power, like at all. I mean, damn! On a less jokey note - usually these scenes are more straightforward - we see clothes being discarded, or he gets out of her bed the next morning. This was weird.

I thought the boxes were gonna blow up, or something, which is why she wanted them opened at the same time - but nothing. Exactly. Last season he never even gave her a chance, believed Barry's garbled account of what he witnessed, and proceeded to mess things up big time. ETA re. Evelyn - what I don't understand is why the writers made her show her hand so early - wouldn't it be much better for Prometheus if he has a mole in the Arrow cave going forward? Or is that position now going to be taken by fake!Laurel?

Continuity? What dis? Re. SA's tweet or facebook message - now I'm starting to wonder if the couple of posters here were right - that the vodka wasn't just highlighted because it's vodka (and so Bratva bla bla bla), but it was drugged. I mean, we didn't see her drink any. Re. the episode as a whole - eh. I didn't expect Oliver to actually be the one to kill Billy, so wow, the show managed to surprise me. I'd love if the whole Son of Claybourne (you killed my father! etc) turns out to be misdirection, and it's really someone we know behind the mask. Because that parkour flip or whatever was EXACTLY what Roy used to do all the time, and I can't remember seeing Oliver doing it. A flip to avoid bullets or arrows etc, sure. But not that really high, just to get from one spot to another flip. That was always Roy's thing, even before he was getting trained by Oliver (when he saved Thea from the muggers in season 1). But knowing these guys, they're already forgotten it. So, sure, a woman in Russia. Fine. I'm deliberately ignoring the last scene. Don't care. Hallucination (how did she get in, otherwise?), roofie-induced dream, or Black Siren. Next!

According to the quote below, they are! I don't bother with interviews etc either, because I've had enough of their crap. I agree with most of what you said, except maybe about Lyla - she only went to Russia to find out about Deadshot for Digg, so if they never reconnected (which was to help Oliver anyway) that might not have arisen. The thing is, I'm not that invested anymore. I'll watch (again, depending on 509) and might be back in February.

Yes, it just occurred to me that I don't even read fanfic where Oliver hasn't been on the island! It's so weird to me that the producers etc are saying that this is actually what would have happened if the Gambit never went down, rather than Oliver's wish-fulfilment fantasy. One thing which struck me also is that either Ray or whoever writes his lines is really bad at, you know, words. I still remember the annoying "guess there really is a kettle for every pot" (3x22) which is not the expression, Ray, dammit! Now we had Ray wishing they had the "owner's manual" for the alien spaceship, which annoyed me as soon as I heard it - it's a user manual, you idiot! What good would an owner's manual do? Do you want to see a warranty? I must say, I did laugh when Wild Dung (stolen from someone upthread) pointed out that Oliver would have kicked his ass for any / all of the crap he did with Kara and Barry, because hey - I'm chasing after crumbs here. Maybe he'll be less of an asshole going forward?

I've had a few days to think about it, and I was waiting for the story to be concluded, but I feel the same way. The whole Cyborg Lady crap was so superfluous it was actually painful - and here I thought the Laurel wedding stuff was going to make me rage, but no. Barry and Kara showed me why I don't watch their shows anymore - I just can't get involved in their issues, and they're so superpowered it's like they warp the storyline everytime they appear. And I still haven't forgiven Barry for Flashpoint, and I probably never will. Yes - and the Felicity there was was weird. I agree with other posters that there were 4 Felicitys in the episode (I know I was the one with the Westworld comparison in another post, but this ISN'T FUNNY, SHOW!) - and let me tell you guys, Ray's Felicity once again justifies my dislike of his character, turning Felicity into arm candy who acts like someone put her on display mode as soon as he leaves her side. The problem with this was that of all of them, only Flashback Felicity seemed real. Present day Felicity was strangely ok with her five closest friends - one of them the supposed love of her life - having been kidnapped by freaking aliens. I needed at least a couple of seconds of her actually losing it, and having to pull herself together. It's like this season's Felicity is the Arrowverse version of the Buffybot, with quirky and sitcomy replacing Buffybot's excessive cheeriness and word salad. I'm the same - I watched it. I shrugged. Then I watched all the clips of Moana I could find on youtube at least 5 times each, and remembered what it was like to feel an emotion. Ok, fine. Oliver saying goodbye to his parents was very affecting, but it mainly reminded me of what a stupid decision it was to kill off Moira Queen. Oliver's last interaction with Thea was BULLSHIT, because no. Just, no. No-one with half a brain is going to leave a younger sibling behind in a dangerous situation which he's running away from. And then the holograms, which to me were a big huh? Wha? Until I realized that it was just another version of the pep talks that apparently both Oliver and Barry need, like every episode nowadays. I'm not at the stage of being done with the show, yet. Let's see what happens in 509, heh.

This, so much. I can't describe how much that bit with Cisco annoyed me - the dialogue was so clunky, it landed like many anvils crashing together. I felt like one of the snarky princesses in one of the Shrek movies - "I GET IT. What's not to get?" Cisco's breakthrough, though I disagree with him, could have been manifested with a growing look of horror on Cisco's face; then maybe some sparse dialogue, not repeating the point over and over again. It reminded me of one of those episodes of Supernatural (when was I still watching) in which Dean is made to sound like a moron so that a situation can be laid out a million times for the audience. And while the episode was exciting and moved at a fast pace, once again, the characterization was iffy for me. It seems that Oliver and Thea are the only ones allowed to have emotions. Like has been mentioned, Felicity greeted their return with a shrug. And even though she kicked ass, it was all within the spectrum of plucky comic relief. It was all surface, to me - very shiny, very pretty, but no depth. Oliver and Barry get the shared manpain, though I must say I felt much more for Oliver saying goodbye to his not-real parents than Barry and any of his self-pitying crying jags. I can't say I saw anything different about Felicity in this episode, as compared to recent episodes of Arrow or the crossover - sure, there was MORE of her, and she was doing stuff, but, as I said - comic relief. Even Cisco had more emotional depth than her, with his grief over his brother. And then, once again, we let Barry off the hook. Just, come on! I don't even agree with Sepinwall's point that he offered to sacrifice himself - there was no way the others were going to let him do it.

This is really fucking terrible - she became a mole, JUST LIKE THAT! Lol. So, I'm off to watch the new trailer, let's see: Evelyn: "This city. Needs to be saved. FROM you." Oh my fucking god. Holy freaking shit. You know what, just get rid of her. Maybe she was a collective hallucination we all had, and she just vanishes. I really don't care, at this point. Also, whoever put that line in the trailer really, really hates MM. That was terrible.

I love all the sarcastic and incredulous replies, though. My favourites:

And, for the MILLIONTH TIME, just like Oliver "looks like he hasn't pooped since February" (I love this so much, I want to marry it), Felicity looks like a fucking comic relief pod person! Actually, no - she looks like a Westworld host and her programmer's fingers slipped on the jokey quippy LOOK HOW WACKY I AM slider, and any moment everyone will freeze, the guys in the biohazard suits will come in and adjust her settings. Even in the crossover trailer everyone's raving about - the same thing: Oliver's looking constipated, Felicity is wacky sidekick redhead in fifties' sitcom. How about a real emotion, from anyone? Anyone? And before one person says Havenrock, I say fuck that shit. Apparently, one heart-to-heart with Ragkid fixed it. Oliver's feeling his usual early mid-life crisis vigilante blues? Pep talk from sexy reporter fixed it. No emotions! Emotions are bad. Quipping, that's the ticket. And parachute arrows.

Wasn't there something (I think in the 'convict party' episode) about Quentin cleaning his gun whenever Oliver came over, or making sure her bedroom door remained open or something (I remember the latter made me laugh- Oliver's bedroom at the mansion was bigger than some people's apartments, like they hadn't been banging there forever). Quentin never liked Oliver, and only put up with him for Laurel's sake, I think.