Idahoforspn
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Posts posted by Idahoforspn
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4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:
Me too :( . Although this is sadly far from the case with fandom, there are simply too many hateful individuals for it to be true, I've always loved the idea that the whole #spnfamily thing was a reality for the current and former cast. It would be sad to think this was no longer the case.
Perhaps, in the eyes of the show, the fact that Misha doesn't appear in half the episodes (and thus doesn't get any billing for those episodes) is enough to balance out any superiority over Jensen's billing it would have given Misha under normal circumstances. IMO even if the "and" credit is normally the better credit it's hard to consider Misha having a better billing than Jensen when he doesn't get any credit for half the episode so.
Alternatively, presumably with Jensen's blessing, he offered to take a pay cut in exchange for the "and" credit. That could explain why Misha was only in 11 episodes this year compared to the 13 he appeared in for seasons 11 and 12. IMO something like this is most likely! Cutting his episode order would have been strange move if the credit was supposed to be a message that Misha's role on the show was being elevated somehow.
When your a regular, your name appears in the credits whether you are in the episode or not. Anyway, that's what I've seen. It's guest stars or reoccurring characters that are only listed in episodes they are in I thought.
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6 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:
Oops
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11 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:
I'm not necessarily blaming the Lucifer storyline for the departure of Mark Sheppard, but it certainly does appear as though the show has opted to continue that storyline into next season. Obviously, we don't know what happened. Mark could have wanted to leave and has no plans to ever come back, or the show runners could have told him they weren't extending his contract, which pissed him off, so he has no intention of coming back. No one's talking but Mark, and he's really not saying much, other than it's not a fake death.
I can't imagine Jensen and Jared being hurt or angry with him for leaving, if it was his choice. I can more see them being angry with management if it wasn't Mark's choice.
Whatever the real story is, the blame for the fallout lies at Dabb's feet. It was his choice to kill everyone off, and his choice to not make some public statement regarding Mark, now that we know he won't be back. They've opened the door for all sorts of speculation and rumors. If Mark is really going to Phoenix con, then Im really hoping that we get at least a bit more information. Part of what makes this show fun to watch is the off-screen relationships between the cast. I'd hate to have that become an issue, or even a perceived issue.
This
42 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:Honestly, the "and" credit baffled me because in my understanding it gives someone equal standing to first billing. In which case, Jensen would have been demoted to third-billed.
I never noticed this so I looked it up. According to everything I found, the "and" gives Misha top billing over Jensen. Can I throw a temper tantrum now?
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1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:
If Mark unfollowing Misha is an indication that whatever happened involved a dispute between Markand Misha
I really really really hope that isn't the case. I really really really don't want this to be a result of problems between cast members. :-(
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8 minutes ago, The Morning Star said:
Oh the set is probably a family, writers however aren't really a part of that set.
Sheppard's issues are probably with them.
Showrunner and writers. The showrunner is responsible for guiding the storyline and the quality of the writing. IMO
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20 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:
A half and half Dean? Mind tickling. How delicious. They could have run with it for a few episodes at least. We'd never really know which Dean we were getting and Sam frantic & confused, trying to complete the cure. What an entertaining idea! (I think I feel a fanfiction coming on.)
Such a wasted opportunity. Wish you could have given them writing tips.
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3 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:
I was responding to catrox's suggestion that they make Sam summoning Demon Dean into "the best running joke in the entire series". So, yes, IMO, it would have made Demon Dean into a joke, which I find highly distasteful.
I am grateful that the storyline was kept to 3 episodes. Always have been, always will be.
Ahhh.OK. I would have liked it to continue but not with Demon Dean being a joke.
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19 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:
I don't understand why people are blaming the Lucifer storyline for Mark Sheppard's departure from the show.
Isn't it possible that they have known for months that Sheppard wanted to leave, which was the catalyst for the continued Lucifer storyline?
If that were the case Mark S would have come right out and said it instead of letting the fan animosity start over a false premise so, IMO, not a chance.
19 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:Isn'tit possible that Pellegrino was elevated to regular as a replacement after the fact instead of before?
Possible but not probable. He could have been hired after the original blowup, whatever that was, with Mark S.
19 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:Isn't it possible that Jared, Jensen, and Misha have kept mum about Sheppard leaving the show because they feel hurt? Maybe they didn't want him to go and don't want to make him look like a bad guy for wanting to move on?
IMO, not a chance. They may not want him to go ( make that probably) but if there wasn't a whole lot of tension between Mark and the powers that be, IMO, they would have commented publicly if even just to be polite. Stars normally comment when a high profile costar leaves just for their personal PR whether they like the person or not.
19 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:Long story short (too late!), it's way, way, way too early to know what happened.
Agreed that we don't know what happened but we do know it wasn't exactly friendly.
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52 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:
As a Dean fan, I would have absolutely HATED that. Making a joke of Dean being a demon, his greatest fear? Makes my stomach turn. Talk about disrespecting the character....
Creative writing could have kept DemonDean in fanfiction without making HIM a joke. They could have kept the storyline if they wanted. We have seen the gymnastics TPTB go through to keep something they want. It was obvious they had absolutely no desire to keep the storyline.
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4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:
Can't say I'm all that excited about a Wayward Daughters spinoff. Can't say I really want a spinoff of any kind, honestly. I love Jody and Donna, but in the context of this show. I don't know that I'd want to watch them on their own. I think when Jensen and Jared call it a day, I'll probably do the same. I've never been big on spinoffs, because they usually suck, with a few exceptions.
Not interested in a Jody and Donna spinoff in the slightest. When J2 hangs it up, I'm done too.
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1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:
But if it wasn't supposed to seal immediately after his death - and I assume that's how it was supposed to work since Sam pulled Dean back from going after Cas - then what was the point? Did they expect Lucifer to just stand their crowing over Crowley's body and not at least try to follow them? Should we then assume that was the purpose of Cas coming through, trying to kill him with a blade he knew would be ineffective - to distract him? And if so, then why did Dean/Sam seem so surprised by it?
Bad writing explains it all :-)
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3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:
I've been thinking...Could this really still be something else.
Could Mark have been given a spinoff which means he really won't be returning to actual SPN but might be going off on to his own show? Could the alternate universe end up being the spinoff?
Lucifer, Crowley, Mary, and Bobby??
If that was the case, there wouldn't be the undercurrent of animosity.
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3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
I have no idea if Misha and Vicki are expecting, but I did amuse myself thinking that Misha might have started getting worried that the Ackles and Padaleckis were outnumbering his own brood. Best get back on even footing. ;
Ackles announce twins and everybody decides they can't get left behind. LOL
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12 minutes ago, companionenvy said:
ITA. I thought this season was OK, but what baffled me is that they had a perfect template for seguing into a more human-level show and then wound up taking the BMOL off the map
And they had made Mick (IMO) AN interesting character that could have been utilized. Instead, they killed him off just like every other character that shows promise.
Quoteand ensuring that the Lucifer plot would continue.
A bigger problem, IMO, than the continuance of hell and heaven intrigue is the execution of it. I can't remember the last demon or angel who was an interesting character with a distinct relationship with our leads.
I can't stand the corporate America no personality theme for demons and angels.
QuoteThere's also too much resistance to even slightly altering the central dynamic. Not that I want Sam and Dean split up,
It is possible to write the boys physically not together without viewers feeling like they are. Separate..not separated if that makes sense. Probably not.
Quotebut maybe it would have been nice to have more than one episode where Cas or Mary was hunting with the boys outside of the arc-plot. Maybe instead of a war in heaven between largely interchangeable angel-suits, we could have done a plot in which Sam, Dean and Cas had to track down a much smaller group of fallen, de-powered angels and help them integrate. Maybe Dean could have been a demon for longer than five minutes (yes, still bitter).
I am too and always will be.
QuoteMaybe rather than having the boys react to a new Big Bad, we could have had them proactively work to restore the American MoL. Maybe we could have a time-travel arc that lasted longer than an episode, or even an arc in which the boys had to make multiple trips back in time on a quest to find something that would help them in a present-day crisis.
I"m not saying all of these plots would have worked, either. But at least the show would have been trying something new.
It would be nice if the showrunner/writers had some original thoughts.
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41 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:
I can't get rid of this quote thingy. Anyway, I'm gagging for the gag reel. There HAS to be more with Jensen on the mechanical bull.
LOL
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4 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:
I can appreciate their dilemma. Demons and angels used to be something. We moved to the edge of the sofa when they came on screen. They could make Sam and Dean stick to a wall with a wave of a hand. Now they walk about in suits with clipboards and, for some odd reason, remain corporeal while in heaven or hell (or wherever Crowley's dingy bunker is located). My head canon in terms of demons is that the longer they're topside the more feeble they become. (It's similar to TWD zombies - so scary at first, now they're swatted away like flies).
And they went too big with the Leviathans' soylent green thing ,then we had falling angels, dying suns and the like. It's too big and too 'global'.
I don't want super heroes saving the world; they're all over movies & TV. What makes Supernatural different and special is the 'smallness' of two street smart, blue collar hunters, riding the back roads of America saving us from monsters. I hope they return to that concept in s13. It'll be like coming home.
I thought Dabb said something preseason about toning it down and said you couldn't go bigger than God and his sister. I must be remembering wrong because we got Lucifer back and now his all powerful son.
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1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:
They can be flawed as all people are, or under the influence of outside forces a la MOC and demon blood, and they're going to make mistakes. But a good writer can show those flaws and mistakes and give a credible reason for them. These writers can't seem to do that.
This!
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1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:
Ah, okay. I didn't catch that, because for me (admittedly a Sam-leaning, both brother liking fan,) I thought the Sam content was in character for Dean and thought that Dean's dialogue there was written just about spot on. Not that Jensen didn't do an excellent job with it and elevate it even more, but he was working with much better material to start with in my opinion.
I know you said this was just your opinion, so I for sure am agreeing it is an opinion and not trying to take away from your opinion. For me though it would be weird for the writers to wonder why Sam's speech might be less well received when half of the speech was about what Sam did wrong... so duh, not exactly a ringing endorsement of your character. "Here first let me reiterate in excruciating detail all of the ways I made stupid decisions and why now we need to fix this together."
This pretty much maybe even hinting that somehow Sam's bad judgment lead to all the bad that was happening even though it was bound to happen eventually anyway - watching the second episode of the season in rerun again reminded me that "recruit (read control) or eliminate" was always the BMoL's plan from the start... Lady YayShe'sDead and Mick even discussed exactly that in the car ride as he was taking her to the airport. If anything Sam and Dean delayed the eliminate consequence with their association with Mick, so having Sam make a speech highlighting how it might be his fault after first having him make the ridiculous decision to join in the first place... I'm not sure how the writers would think that would go over like gangbusters for Sam fans.
I actually thought that one of the main purposes of the speech was to address the criticism from earlier in the season that Sam should apologize to Dean for taking up with the BMoL and lying about it to Sam, so that's what I thought was going on. "Here we have Sam admitting in front of Dean and their peers that his judgement was wrong and look at all that maybe happened because of it (though not really) in detail, so see a Sam admits he was wrong, a bunch, no doubt about that anvil taken care of, okay?" And if that was at least one purpose as I suspect, Sam fans were not the audience there. Maybe the speech seemed so haphazard and repetitive even, because it was modified / rewritten to accommodate that goal without going too far over the edge. Because really if the speech had gone into "and it wasn't Dean's bad decision" or something more direct like that, then the hunters would rightly be wondering "well, then why isn't Dean leading us?" and as I pointed out earlier - awkward.
I'm actually hoping that Dabb will return to season 11 form, myself, where Sam got some strong one-off episodes while Dean got the storyarc, because the current writers can't seem to give Sam storyarc without making him screw up somehow and then have to apologize for it.If the intent was an apology to Dean then it should/would have been written into the bunker scene. Instead Sam does the I was afraid to lead nonsense. In other words, IMO, the speech had nothing to do with Sam apologizing to Dean. Also, none of the bad that the BMoL did was a result of Sam working with them. Mary yes, but she was in their camp before Sam. Sam didn't have anything to apologize to the hunters about. It was just a convoluted speech, iMO, written to demonstrate the redemption of the flawed hero so he could lead the hunters to save the day. Unfortunately, these writers, under Dabb just aren't that good at redemptive arc. Just look at Mary.
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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:
(quoting myself and Res from the Cast social media thread for context)
Full disclosure, before Supernatural, I couldn't tell you the name of a single TV writer, with maybe the exception of Aaron Sorkin. I've always been one who is only interested in what's on the screen. My main criteria for judging any entertainment is: Am I entertained? Did it make me feel something? Do I want to feel that again?
This season there was, for me, so much whatthefuckery, with Dean in particular, that it took me out of the moment and sadly, too often the answer to all those questions was a resounding Hell, no.The worst offender was Davy Perez and I honestly have no desire to watch any more of his work.
Same here unfortunately.
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6 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:
For me, the content was much better thought out for Dean's scene. I agree with @shang yiet that Sam's seemed more cobbled together and expository (when exposition wasn't needed really) in comparison.
I only put that because there was some discussion on the content (to much how Mary's deal affected Sam instead of Dean) but it was a much better written speech for sure.
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4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:
This was the problem I had with the Sam's speech. I had no issue with him taking responsibility and asking the other hunters to trust him again and help him take out the BMOL. That was all great. But the speech itself annoyed me. When Sam started listing all of the bad things the BMOL did, and just how much differently American Hunters do their jobs, it was like, duh...the fans have known this all season! How could it have taken you so long to figure it out! I know they were going for this emotional, rallying speech, but all I kept thinking was that the writers should never have put Sam in that position to begin with. He's always known how different they were from the BMOL. The Sam we know wouldn't have fallen for their shit after that fiasco he was witness to. Not to mention the torture and the multiple red flags we saw all season that Sam and Dean would never have missed. When you have to dumb your characters down so much to make your storyline work, you need another storyline.
I have to laugh because I'm sure both Berens and Dabb couldn't wait for Sam to deliver what they thought would be the climax of the episode (including the raid on the BMoL). Instead, a lot of Sam fans are like "WHAT?" And Jensen's delivery (not necessarily content) of the Mary dream speech seemed to be the biggest hit ( judging by social media) and Berens/ Dabb were left sitting there wondering what in the heck happened. Don't these stupid fans understand anything. Of course, this is just how I see it and I kind of need a laugh with all the behind the scenes drama right now
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12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
To be fair, this isn't usual. Seems like no faction is ever happy. It's been pretty much the norm since I've been watching the show.
I have only been here four years. I don't remember it ever being quite this bad with so many fans during that period but I could easily be wrong. I just see a difference between the previous being unhappy and the outright anger right now.
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15 minutes ago, Macbeth said:
I agree. He's my favorite. I have just been so angry lately with everything going.
I need to make Misha my spirit animal.
Dean fans are furious. Cas fans are furious. Crowley fans are furious. Rowena and Eileen fans are furious. Only ones not ready to riot are Sam fans although some of them aren't real happy. Way to go Dabb/Singer.
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Spoilers With Speculation
in Supernatural
I just pulled up an episode Cas wasn't in because I wanted to make sure as I usually don't pay any attention to credits. Misha does not show on the credits so I WAS WRONG. SORRY!!
Even if he doesn't, his agent sure should. Plus, credits affect future jobs and future pay so I hope Jensen cares. He seems pretty career savy.