Xeliou66

Yeah Jack went unusually easy on her at the start, and I was glad Arthur called him on it. One of the few times Jack’s judgment was off. While Serena was right on about the case, her ending line about it being nice to stay 16 or whatever was odd, who thinks that way - the teenage years were a nightmare for me and very few people would want to remain that age. What a weird line.

Yeah it was absurd how Serena felt sorry that the son that was sick would be without them, Jack was right that he would be better off, those parents were depraved sickos. I don’t understand how any parent could betray their kid in such an egregious way, I don’t care what circumstances they were under, what they did was pure evil. The son’s reaction to finding out they knew all along was a very memorable and chilling moment. The parents deserved to rot, and I wish Arthur had canned Serena in this episode. Arthur made a good point when he said he wouldn’t let his kids have a sleepover with a 35 year old stranger, and also when he told the story about the mom and two sons and when she had to choose which one would go to war she said to take her husband instead and that that was natural, you don’t sacrifice one kid to save the other. Yeah I was surprised Jack bought the story of the perp originally in Shangri-La, he had blinders on. Serena was right about this case from the start.

Yes Captive is a very disturbing episode, Tory was so screwed up by his bad home life then being kidnapped and molested by Roger, because of these circumstances he lacked compassion for the kid he killed. I think the jury got the right verdict in finding him guilty, he killed on his own without Roger telling him to, but he was sympathetic due to his awful life, it made sense that Jack would ask for the minimum at sentencing, Roger was the real villain, a completely evil psycho, I don’t think Tory would ever be okay, hopefully he got psychological treatment while in jail. It’s one of L&O’s most disturbing episodes. I think the final 4 episodes of season 17 are pretty good, it’s L&O’s most uneven season but it finished strong.

Nick Baxter is much more similar to Adam and Arthur than to Jack as DA, Jack didn’t care at all about the political stuff, whereas Adam and Arthur were more adept at navigating the political minefield and were concerned with the image of their office and with considerations other than winning or losing. But I think Nick has integrity and cares strongly about justice, as shown by his actions in this episode and a few other times, he just goes about his duties differently than Jack did and sees the world a bit differently. His backstory is more similar to Adam and Arthur also - Nick was a federal prosecutor and a defense attorney over the course of his career, while Jack spent his whole career as an ADA until becoming DA. It’s impossible to replace a legend like Jack, but I think Baxter is doing a pretty good job as DA, I think he gets quite a bit of heat at times from the viewers because he’s replacing a beloved legend - I am glad he’s very different from Jack but still a compelling character. I like what he brings to the show, and the fact that Jack had a reduced role in many episodes due to his age helped the transition to a new DA. As for this episode I thought it was pretty great overall, I just would’ve had the final scene written a bit differently where instead of Nick just defending his views, him and Nolan agree to disagree on the specifics of the laws but agree that they got the right verdict on the case. It was the only scene that I felt the writing was a bit off on, other than that it was one of the revival’s best episodes actually. And that’s pretty much all I have to say for this discussion.

Fallout is an interesting episode, with the Russian human trafficking case. The victim and his brother were real scumbags, very unsympathetic, and the killer was kind of sympathetic in that he was placed in an impossible situation in dealing with the traffickers, but he did deserve to go to prison for taking the law into his own hands and poisoning the victim, and I liked how Jack said he wouldn’t tolerate vigilante justice, he never did. I liked the scenes of Jack and Arthur dealing with the bureaucrats and Jack making a deal to send the brother to Russia to face trafficking charges in exchange for getting the murderer handed over - it was the right move, the murderer needed to be tried in America for the murder. It was a good catch by Connie to see that the perp lied about following the victim to the club and that he was there ahead of time. Solid case all around, one of season 17s strongest episodes. Captive is a pretty good episode as well, the murderer was sympathetic here as well, his mind was so warped by his kidnapper/abuser that he was jealous of the new kidnapping victim taking his place, plus he came from an abusive home and didn’t want to go back. Dirtbag pedophile/kidnapper Roger was the real villain here, he was scum, hope he had a miserable existence in prison. I thought Olivet’s analysis of Tory was accurate. It was a disturbing and sad case, and as Jack said at the end nobody won, Tory deserved to go to prison as the kid he killed deserved justice but he was a victim of an awful life. Jack’s closing was strong, Roger didn’t make Tory kill the victim, Tory killed out of jealousy and anger, Roger didn’t want the victim dead, Tory did. This was the last closing we saw Jack give until his final episode in season 23 - his closings were always great. Season 17 is the weakest season of the Mothership’s original run IMO, but it finished strong - the last 4 episodes are all good.

Yeah I liked how they caught her, and exposed her as a fraud. It was interesting how Serena was spot on about her, while Jack thought the teacher was the main culprit. And I liked that Arthur called out Jack for being too lenient with her, saying he wouldn’t give his own granddaughter that deal. It was one of the few times Jack’s judgment was off. I liked how Lennie realized something was off with the tape, and the detective work was really good. It’s a great episode.

I have to disagree, I don’t think Nolan dislikes Nick or believes he’s not a good person, he doesn’t trust him 100% the way he trusted Jack but I don’t feel like their relationship is one of disdain. And we’ve seen the DA called as a witness before - Jack was called by Cutter as a witness in the season 18 episode Illegal when the DAs office was being called biased by the defense, so this wasn’t the first time the DA has been called as a rebuttal witness.

I don’t think Nick is shady, and he explicitly said it was illegal to threaten violence against family - the guidelines he wrote were blatantly violated by the rogue FBI agent as he testified to. I thought the final scene could’ve been written a bit better to express both Nick’s and Nolan’s viewpoints, instead of just Nick defending his views, I could see both sides of the argument, and I think the final scene should’ve been written to express Nick and Nolan agreeing to disagree on the specifics of the law. But it was clear that Nick didn’t condone or like the actions of this agent as shown by his testimony and his charging the agent with manslaughter in the first place. I don’t think Nolan is a hostile subordinate, just because him and Nick don’t always see things the same doesn’t mean it’s hostile - never in the history of the show have all of the prosecution characters seen the world through the same lens, but the only relationship I think was somewhat hostile was Arthur and Serena. But all of the DA characters in the history of the show have had differences of opinions on various cases, and that’s natural.

Agreed completely about how Mariska and her ego drags down the show, I’ve been saying it for years, her demand to be front and center all of the time and to portray Benson as an all knowing, always correct saintly figure is the main reason why SVU has been so bad at times in recent years. Mariska’s influence has caused the show to lose a lot of its edge and become a watered down, Hallmark version of SVU. I will say this season has been a huge improvement over the awfulness of last season, and they finally have a really good squad of characters around Benson. But Benson, and the comical way she’s portrayed as some superhero crusader without flaws, is cheesy and weakens the show.

Decent episode, I liked that there was a mystery to solve and things weren’t obvious from the start, and the courtroom scenes were mostly well done - one thing SVU has done well this season is giving us way more courtroom scenes with Carisi. I disliked Carisi needing a pep talk from St O to get his focus back but I did like seeing him get a larger role and seeing the courtroom. I liked the reference to Nick Baxter as well, I know he’ll be in an upcoming episode which will be interesting. While I love Fin and Bruno and I like seeing the whole squad together, it wasn’t a good episode to have everyone in it as some of them barely got any screen time and it wasn't an urgent case that required all hands on deck. So having everyone there plus a Rollins cameo was kind of unusual, knowing that everyone other than St O will be absent for a couple of episodes. But overall this was decent, the Benson worship wasn’t as bad as many other episodes, the case was decent and all of the characters were solid and nice court scenes. SVU has definitely improved this season after an awful season 25, hope it continues to be an improved season.

Great episode - lots of really good twists in it, and good stuff for each character. Investigation was really strong as usual, Shaw/Riley are a great pairing, I liked how they went through their suspects, and the action scene was much more natural and not forced like in some episodes. The FBI twist caught me off guard, that was a good one. The FBI agent clearly crossed the line here and deserved to be held accountable, glad the jury agreed. We saw Detective Yee again, that was interesting, sometimes I thought they relied too much on her in the past but her role here was good and necessary. I thought Brady got a bit too much screen time, maybe it’s because I love watching Riley and Shaw and so it kind of frustrates me how often Brady takes the lead in interrogations, but Brady has become a better character and gels better with everyone else now. Great legal stuff as well, Price and Baxter were both really strong, Price did a great job prosecuting, and I liked seeing Baxter stand up and risk taking a hit to his reputation and possibly getting blowback from the feds in order to see justice served. I liked how Price and Baxter didn’t really get heated, Price just laid things out and Baxter followed his conscience and took the stand. Baxter and Price and Maroun may not always see things the same way, but they all want to see justice served and that’s what makes the show work. I liked Price forcefully making a point in court after Baxter’s testimony and the judge rebuking him, I think Price has shown more fire lately and I like that, my biggest complaint about him is that he’s been too low key at times. And I’m really liking Baxter as the DA, I like how they went with someone very different from McCoy but who still has a passion to see justice served. No soapy personal nonsense was a big plus. I didn’t really get the point of the men’s rights macho boxer red herring (clearly based on Andrew Tate) it was obvious he was a red herring, and I would’ve preferred Shaw/Riley interrogating him than Brady. Overall this was really good, nice twisted case that flowed well, good stuff for each character, compelling story from start to finish. Well done episode.

I love Adam - he was hilarious, he could be just as funny as Lennie with his snarky one liners, and yeah he could be a grouch but he was also a very upstanding DA who did a great job and had a lot of wisdom to offer. He might be my 3rd favorite character behind Jack and Lennie. Cutter drives me up the wall, he was an egomaniac and borderline unethical, and he seemed to only care about “winning” and his ego. I just want to knock the smirk off of Cutter’s face much of the time he’s on screen. Him and Rey Curtis are probably the two most annoying characters in L&O history. Cutter benefitted from having a very strong cast around him and being paired with the awesome Connie. No one can match Jack or Ben as lead prosecutor, but Cutter was just so damn egotistic and didn’t seem all that concerned about justice. I like Nolan Price on the revival better than I like Cutter.

Here’s the description for tonight’s episode “An abhorrent web of lies and betrayal is uncovered when a woman is confronted with video of a night she can’t remember. Carisi struggles to move on from his ordeal when the suspect changes his plea”.

Here’s the description for tonight’s episode “Shaw and Riley discover a shocking motive after a young man is pushed in front of a train. When the trial hinges on a piece of legislation that Baxter wrote, Price must convince him to testify to its uses and abuses”.

Kid Pro Quo is an awesome episode, one of my all time favorites, great case with a strong investigation by Briscoe/Green and an entertaining trial. Van Buren was missing which was weird, but Briscoe/Green were at their best in this investigation, their questioning of the suspects and then zeroing in on the headmaster was a really good investigation and there were some funny one liners, Lennie’s “she had her oophers removed” quip after Rodgers tells them the victim had an oophorectomy was hilarious, and the swipe at CSI about crime scene guys thinking they were detectives was also funny. The arrest scene where they slap the cuffs on Scofield at the auction is great as well. Strong court scenes as well, Rothenberg was always a good adversary, Jack getting Scofield to show his anger on cross was another strong cross from Jack, I liked how he got under Scofield’s skin and showed his greed and arrogance. I liked all of the various testimony, I was glad the jury found Scofield guilty, he was an arrogant murderer, as noted by him still wearing the sweater that he wore when he killed the victim that they got the fibers from. Serena was pretty good as well in this one in helping to get to the bottom of the scheme where Scofield was getting helped by the rich buddies of the guy whose kid he put in the school. The toxicity and intensity of private school culture is something that has been done in several episodes throughout the franchise. Downright excellent plot in this episode. I watched through the end of season 13 this week, Couples is an entertaining episode, one of the two “lots of action in one day” episodes along with Mayhem that deviated from the usual formula, I think Mayhem is slightly better but Couples is entertaining and has a lot of good dark humor in it, Briscoe/Green were so entertaining to watch. Them running through the car wash after the suspect and getting soaked was funny, and Lennie’s “married and a Mets fan, he’s a glutton for punishment” line was great, and Briscoe/Green finding the kidnapping message in the bathroom when they took the suspect in there to let him throw up was one of L&O’s most bizarre moments, the whole episode was odd but they pulled it off and made it entertaining and funny without being too off the wall. Then of course Smoke is the finale and I will say again how disgusted I was with Serena feeling sympathy for those sicko parents - even when it came out they knowingly sold their son to the creep comedian knowing he would molest him, Serena still acted like it was some kind of tragedy that they were going to jail, disgusting. Jack was 100% right that both kids were better off without those scum, and I don’t know if the brothers could even have any kind of relationship with each other knowing the truth that the parents pimped the one kid out to the perv to pay for the others medical treatments. I wish Serena had been fired in this episode, that way we wouldn’t have had to have another season and a half of her. For every episode where Serena was good such as Kid Pro Quo, there were more where she was a crybaby.

Interesting takes I liked Jamie overall, I didn’t find her overly disagreeable or irritating, I thought she was usually reasonable. Abbie is one of my favorites as well, she was a really good prosecutor, and yeah she could have some good one liners - my favorite Abbie one liner is from Trade This in season 10, when the mob boss says “my son’s a moron, not a murderer” and Abbie replies “so he’s only half a chip off the old block!” - that was hilarious. Abbie and Connie are my two favorite female prosecutors, they added a real spark to the show. Jack and Lennie are my favorite characters, they are L&O’s two most iconic characters and rightfully so, both are awesome. Adam is great as well, I didn’t think he yelled too much but he was a grouchy old guy but also very wise and cared deeply about justice. 100% agree about jackass Rey Curtis - At times I’ve wondered if they wanted Rey to be unlikable or controversial because he was so self righteous and smug and frequently a huge hypocrite.

Because of the writers strike last year, there was no fall season. So season 25 didn’t premiere until January and had only 13 episodes.

I’ve seen a promo pic that shows Nick Baxter from the Mothership crossing over to SVU - he’s meeting with Carisi/Benson in a garage. I look forward to that, I like minor crossovers showing that the Mothership and SVU share the same universe, and I like that Baxter will continue the tradition of the DA making a cameo on SVU - Schiff, Lewin, Branch and McCoy all made appearances. So that will be interesting. Makes me wish we had gotten a Carisi/McCoy scene at some point though, too bad we never did. But it will be good continuity to see Baxter pop up.

Yeah Anita showed restraint in Scrambled when Rey made his comment, he was way out of line and needed to just shut his yapper. He just wouldn’t do it though, all he could talk about was how much he opposed the clinic’s work. The rest of the episode was good, I especially liked Adam’s scenes. Venom was creepy and wild, the son was so manipulated by the mom that he wouldn’t turn on her even to help his wife. I kind of felt sorry for him. The mom was evil and it was frustrating that she walked because she was the real villain of the story.

Legacy is a good episode, another of the many L&O episodes about the toxicity of elite private schools, a good complex plot with many suspects. It was wild how the murderer created Joe just to try to get the teacher to resign and then committed murder over grades, wild case. Next up were Logan’s last two episodes, and while I like the cases, Neighborhood Watch is particularly good with an interesting case, kind of fascinating how the killers turned out to be two random psycho losers who killed for fun and fame, Logan’s exit just seemed abrupt, I bought that he would get fed up with the system and with slimy people like ADA Driver, but it seemed so quick that he would just quit and we didn’t see him say goodbye to anyone. At least they didn’t trash him, and it was nice to see the fiery, passionate Logan again. I can’t stand Ross, he was such a condescending asshat, so quick to insult and condescend to his detectives.

iAgony is such a weird episode, with the discovery of the serial killer who didn’t actually do the crime the episode started with, and it was just pure coincidence that he got caught in the investigation, and then his offer to plead guilty to the crime he knew he didn’t commit knowing they would figure it out, it was all so convoluted. It was bizarre that the woman got her brother to attack her boyfriend’s ex just because the boyfriend was still focused on the ex, and it turned out the guy just got more fixated on the ex after her attack and the bonkers sister and her equally crazy brother ruined their lives for nothing - best moment of the episode was when the brother said he would make it look like some psycho did it and Abbie retorted “guess what, some psycho did do it”. It was creative for Jack to trick the serial killer with letterhead from the Houston DAs office and getting the killer to toss out his deal and then say that they would extradite because there was no deal, and I liked the scene between Jack and Abbie when Jack said he was wrong when he hid the witness the previous season and Abbie should realize she’s wrong for wanting to bend the law in this case and she shouldn’t wait until she’s facing a committee to realize it. But the whole episode was just really convoluted - and Skoda correctly profiled that the perp was inexperienced because he killed the mailman, but then when they suspected the serial killer was the culprit and he had turned out to have already killed several women, shouldn’t that have caused alarm bells to go off that maybe the serial killer didn’t do that attack? Strange episode. Scrambled is a strong episode, with the murder at the fertility clinic, good investigation and discovery that the perp was out to destroy a specific embryo. But my god Curtis was a jackass, he just wouldn’t shut his yapper about how much he disliked the clinic, and his remark to Anita about how maybe her sister wasn’t meant to have kids was way out of line. It was par for the course for Rey though. The legal stuff was interesting as well, I liked Adam’s scenes where he said they didn’t want to be debating whether embryos were property or not, saying it would open a major can of worms, and I liked how Jack got the other couple to testify, thus avoiding the jury having to decide about the embryos. Venom is one of L&O’s wildest plots, with the mother/son incest and them killing each other’s spouses and the son being unwilling to turn on the mom at the end. Good detective work again and the twists just kept on coming in this episode. I think the son was so warped that he was somewhat insane from years of his crazy mom’s abuse. Adam’s ending line was spot on “could be worse, she could’ve had twins” was spot on, vintage Adam.

I’m hoping they shift away from the personal melodrama for the rest of season 24. It felt so forced in and cheapened some of the episodes this season. I disliked almost all of the personal stuff from this season, such as Price’s dad, Maroun being overly emotional, Brady’s kids, Riley’s brother etc. The only personal stuff this season that went fine was Shaw talking about his experience in foster care, and Baxter being on the board of the school where the dean was killed - both of those were done in a natural way that gave us some insight into the characters without detracting from the case at hand or being too melodramatic. I hope they dial it back in the second half of the season - I like the revival’s cast minus Maroun (Brady started growing on me in the fall finale, I hope that marks a shift for her) and they can still write strong cases, but please dial back the personal crap and leave it for SVU. Yeah the death of Adam’s wife was well done, it was really sad and the pain on Adam’s face when he took her off life support said it all. Adam hadn’t really gotten much personal stuff until then and it was an example of a personal subplot that didn’t detract from the case of the week. Another example of a personal story done right was the season 5 episode where Anita was robbed at gunpoint and killed one of the robbers, that episode deviated from the formula but was pulled off really well and gave us a good case plus good character moments. On the revival an example of a personal plot done right was when the gang tried to assassinate Baxter in last season’s finale - it was a bit of a shift from the norm of the show but it was handled well overall and never became soapy and gave us some good character moments. So even the revival’s writers can do a personal story right on occasion. But overall it’s best when the show does very minimal personal stuff and sticks to the cases.

Agreed, at least on SVU they let you know from the first episode it would have more melodrama than the Mothership. The Mothership is supposedly to be zero melodrama and minimal personal crap - that’s why I hate Aftershock, disliked the season 8 subplots such as Lennie’s kid, Anita’s lawsuit and Rey’s wife being sick, and strongly dislike the infusion of personal crap into the current episodes. I really hope they dial it back in the second half of the season but I don’t have a lot of trust in the current writers. The season 7 finale when Adam’s wife died was a rare example of a personal subplot done right - it didn’t take away from the compelling legal case and it gave Adam some great scenes, and it wasn’t dwelled on afterwards, her death was just referenced once or twice in future episodes.

Yeah the personal stuff drives me nuts usually - one of my favorite things about original L&O is the minimal personal stuff. It’s the main reason I think the SVU spinoff is far inferior to the Mothership - SVU has a lot of personal crap and it’s only gotten worse over the years. CI is my second favorite L&O as well, I love Goren/Eames and of course Logan as well. Lupo is one of my favorites also, he was a good detective and I liked him with Bernard, they had nice chemistry. The show was very strong overall in season 20 and it’s a damn shame they took it off the air then because it was on a nice roll. Van Buren was leaving no matter what at the end of season 20 but L&O’s replaced every character at some point or another. I enjoy the revival and I’m glad they brought it back but the writing isn’t as good as it was when L&O went off the air after season 20. I’m also not a Max Greevey fan, he had a few good moments but he was absolutely awful a couple of times as well. Cragen chewing his ass out when he wanted off the case in Prisoner of Love is awesome. I love both Ben and Jack, very different but both great. I like how L&O doesn’t try to replace characters with a clone of the previous character - the one thing I liked about Fontana is that he was not a Lennie clone, and fortunately L&O hasn’t tried to clone previous characters.

Good post and I mostly agree with it. Briscoe/Green is also my favorite detective pairing, they had awesome chemistry and worked really well together. Lennie is a legend, he’ll forever be my favorite L&O detective. And yeah Jack is a legend as well, he was an awesome prosecutor. I think Ben would’ve been just as beloved if he had been on longer, both Ben and Jack were great but very different - Ben was stoic and business like and deadly serious, Jack was fiery and wore his emotions on his sleeve more and was visibly passionate about his cases, but both characters were great lawyers dedicated to justice. And yeah I love the Green/Lupo pairing as well, too bad they were only together for 14 episodes, Lupo gets forgotten about sometimes. Beauty Queen was awful. I found Fontana to be interesting but totally unlikable - arrogant, smug, a rule breaker, borderline shady and unethical at times, and lacking in empathy for people. I appreciated that they went with someone totally different from Lennie, but Fontana just had no likable qualities. Connie and Abbie are my favorite ADAs as well, although I love Claire, Paul and Jamie as well. Completely agree about disliking Cutter much of the time. The revival is usually pretty good, not as good as the original run for sure but still good, I like it a lot more than most, I love the Shaw/Riley detective pairing, I like both of their personalities and they have nice chemistry. Nolan Price is rather hit or miss but I’ve liked him more lately. I enjoy Tony Goldwyn as Baxter as well, even if they don’t always use him properly. I really miss Dixon though, the new LT Brady is too abrasive and surly. Maroun can really drive me nuts in some episodes though the same way Serena could. The worst thing about this season has been the intro of more personal melodrama, 4 of the 6 characters have had personal plots directly in the episodes and we’re only 8 episodes in. I really hope they cut this out, I don’t know if there are new writers who’ve come in from SVU or Wolf’s Chicago soap operas, but L&O should be all case centric and the revival needs to get back to that.