Xeliou66

Stalker is a great episode, but Rey and to a lesser extent even Anita irritate me in this episode - I absolutely loved seeing Curtis get exposed for his hypocrisy on the stand, he was so damn self righteous. I thought he was wrong when he said that the victim acknowledged with her behavior that she made up the first attack, she never said she made up the attack and was genuinely terrified that she would be killed and she was right to be - she never said she made up the story, she was crying because they didn’t believe her. There were a couple of holes in the story but frequently victims do leave stuff out, I wasn’t convinced the first attack was staged, I think there’s a good chance it wasn’t, and I think the victim was crying because they didn’t believe her, not because she made it up. Lennie tried to make it right, and Rey was so damn smug and condescending about it, I loved when Jack exposed his hypocrisy. Anita was wrong to jump down Lennie’s throat for changing his story, and it seemed kind of odd for her, her and Lennie had known each other long enough that it would seem like she would be calmer in discussing the situation with Lennie, and it seems like Lennie would go to her before testifying, like I said they had strong mutual respect so that felt off. It’s a really good case, and it’s memorable because we got to know the victim before she died, so the viewer felt more invested in the outcome. The twist that the killer blackmailed the company employee over his embezzlement and got to use his computer while incarcerated was good. The building super was a cranky old guy and a memorable minor character.

Another strong episode tonight - a compelling case, I figured that it was someone with a personal grudge against that precinct that was doing the shootings, but it was still compelling to watch play out. I did wonder though what did the bully cop have against the perp’s son? Why did he get on his bad side in the first place? That wasn’t explained, was the guy just an abusive boss on a power trip who got off on bullying the people under his command, or was there something about the perp’s son that got him singled out? Regardless it was kind of satisfying in a twisted way to watch the perp force the two scummy cops to fight, and I was glad Remy had the one who survived arrested, hopefully he would go to jail for his role in driving the son to suicide. Barnes getting shot made the episode more intense, although I knew she would survive, and I liked the scenes between Remy and Barnes, I like how their relationship has grown. So I wonder if Barnes will end up getting divorced or not? Good investigation and a compelling case. This show is the best of the 3 FBIs IMO, really strong cases and a good team.

So was tonight really Forrester’s last episode, or will he be in the next one? If tonight was it, it’s beyond strange, because there was no sign at all that he was being written off the show and no goodbyes for him and he didn’t even have a large role. So what is going on? If I didn’t know the actor was leaving I would have no idea Forrester is leaving. That being said, I liked getting insight into Smitty’s backstory, her mom was unsympathetic and rather nasty IMO, I didn’t like her at all, and I knew the informant would turn out to be her bio dad. Did Smitty’s dad know he wasn’t actually her bio dad and the informant was? The case was pretty good with a solid investigation.

The agents had a shootout to rescue the POW after word got out that the Taliban leader was killed - Isobel tried to trick them with a deepfake video of the leader but the media got wind of the story and a shootout ensued - the POW was saved while the captors were shot, OA went to the hospital and checked in with the POW and told him about his dad and his military friends being arrested for their role in the murders, then OA went home and talked to his girlfriend about his time in the military and how he was once captured in Afghanistan along with a friend who didn’t make it. This was a strong episode, it was a really compelling case with good twists - I couldn’t tell where it was going at the start, it was a gripping episode. OA had good scenes and Isobel and Jubal were good as well, I liked seeing them each get an interrogation. I liked seeing the actress who played the Secretary of State, she’s been in several episodes of the L&O franchise and was immediately recognizable, and I liked how she had a bit more depth instead of just being an obstructionist bureaucrat. A situation like this would cause an international incident and there would be blowback from the people in Afghanistan for a Taliban leader being killed by American vigilantes, while I understood why the perps were desperate, especially the dad, what they did would cause more harm in the future, something which they didn’t think about, it’s why vigilantism and going rogue isn’t okay. It would be interesting if the show followed up on that in a future episode because the followers of this leader would no doubt seek retaliation against Americans for what happened, but I doubt we’ll hear about it again since this show doesn’t come back to prior cases much. But there is a lot of interesting stuff to explore with this story. It was a good case for OA to take center stage and I didn’t even really miss Maggie because the others all had good roles. They said Maggie took Ella to her grandparents in Ohio, it made me wonder why aren’t the grandparents the ones taking custody of Ella, they would be her legal guardians it seems, not Maggie. Oh well the personal stuff isn’t all that big of a deal to me anyway. A very intriguing case and a solid story.

L&O has always dealt with social issues and moral/ethical dilemmas - it’s just a matter of how well written it is whether it comes off as fascinating/compelling or clunky/preachy. As we’ve discussed here, the legal writing on the revival has some issues so it’s frequently not as well written as it was during the show’s original run, but I have no problem with the show taking on social issues and ethical/moral dilemmas - it’s always done that - I mean look all the way back right off the bat in season 1 - we had episodes about racial tension, police and government misconduct, anti abortion violence, assisted suicide etc. It just varies how well written the episodes are. IMO, the biggest issue with the revival isn’t that it deals with difficult social issues, the show has always done that, the biggest issue is that the legal writing frequently makes Price/Maroun look inept and relies too much on predictable suppressions of evidence and new discoveries that should’ve been discovered before trial

Here’s the thread for tonight’s episode.

I don’t know when the dad told the daughter to lie, he might’ve told her what to say sometime after the shooting before he was arrested, or he might’ve told her from jail - that’s why I wondered whether the lawyer knew and was complicit in suborning perjury. As for the family members of the characters - we knew about Dixon having a deaf son from an episode last season, she used sign language with a witness and told Shaw about her son, in another episode she said she’s been divorced twice and is currently single. I liked meeting her son and how they worked him into the plot, it was nice getting more of a focus on Dixon as she’s often underused. As for the others - Riley is divorced and has 2 children that live in Westchester, at the start of one episode when he arrived at the crime scene he told Shaw he was returning from his son’s basketball game there, and in another episode he mentioned his teenage daughter, and Dixon mentioned to Price that Riley and his wife split up a few years back around the time of Riley punching the higher up who was berating Dixon. Shaw has a brother in the military and his dad served in the military as well, other than that I don’t believe we know anything about Shaw, I would like to get a bit more insight into him in the future. We met Maroun’s mom once in season 22, and her sister’s murder has been mentioned a few times. Price we don’t know much at all about which is kind of surprising, we know he had a brother that died of a drug overdose, that was mentioned once, he’s never mentioned any family other than that, we saw him kissing a woman goodbye once at the start of the episode where he was at the subway shooting, no idea who she was though. I like how L&O doesn’t push much personal drama on characters, and we just get brief references and an occasional glimpse into their personal lives, that’s one thing the revival has gotten right.

Agreed - I didn’t feel any sympathy for him - it was tragic that he never learned to read and had a rough background but he was still a cold blooded killer. I didn’t find him to be a sympathetic perp.

This was a gigantic improvement over the last 2 episodes, and actually had a very interesting case SVU case with the involvement of more than just St Olivia. It was weird how Rollins was investigating from the start despite not officially being a detective, that seemed very weird to have her taking statements at the hospital. It was more believable that she would participate in the sting, given that the perp would recognize Bruno or Curry but had never seen Rollins. I’m thinking they’re setting up Rollins to return to SVU next season, it’s looking like Sykes may exit next week based on the promos and that will open the door for Rollins to have a spot. Fin and Bruno were awesome as usual, and the squad dynamics were good again, even if it was weird how Velasco and Sykes were MIA with no explanation. Benson didn’t bother me as much as normal, so after 2 episodes of nothing but St O worship this episode gave me hope that the show can still produce good cases when they want to - this had a strong investigation and a good case. I do wish they would give Carisi more to do, but he was good in what he had. I liked the scene of Bruno, Fin, Curry and Carisi waiting in the van when Rollins was in the room. Nice to know Fin and Phoebe are still together. Overall a good case that flowed well and good squad dynamics once I could get past some of the Rollins stuff. It is nice that SVU has a full squad again. If SVU delivers more cases like this I’ll keep watching.

I don’t think the Bronx people knew about Mike’s involvement with the trial when they did the raid. Mike was caught in a tough situation and it was a good courtroom drama with him being caught between incriminating himself and putting the killer away, but he did the right thing and I was glad the Bronx dropped the charges. It’s a really good case, one of my favorites from season 7, and season 7 is loaded with great cases. The killer stands out as epically dumb, he didn’t get rid of any evidence, he gave his brother the victim’s wallet, and he confessed and thought that because he shot the victim for refusing to give up his stuff that would help his sentence. Glad he was convicted of murder 1. It’s an excellent episode from start to finish. I agree the mother in Passion was worse than Evans, the way she threw her son away for that asshole was despicable, and she still wanted Evans at the end even after everything. She was a terrible person. It’s one of the handful of times I felt sympathy for the killer. In Past Imperfect the investigation is really interesting and the twist about the daughter was good. The victim was selfish for not helping the daughter, but the daughter killed her for money. It would be interesting to know where all the money went. I liked how Jack got the attorney on the record to testify against the perp. It was interesting that Lennie knew who the model victim was and had an attraction to her and said he always wanted to meet her. It’s another strong episode. Terminal’s ending is probably the saddest in L&O’s history - Adam’s facial expressions said it all. He was one of the few happily married characters on the show and he clearly loved his wife and the pain on his face as she died was memorable. I did wonder where Adam’s son was - was he at the hospital with them and just not shown? It was nice of Jack and Jamie to stay with Adam at the hospital for support, and I loved Jack’s scenes with Adam in this one, their mutual respect was very evident. I didn’t feel sympathy for the perp, he deserved to rot, but Adam followed the law in not seeking the death penalty and the governor overstepped by removing him. The state prosecutor completely blew his chance at a murder 1 conviction when he asked “can you think of a reasonable person who would believe you?” and the defense attorney pounced on it. I liked seeing Adam speak in court - the only time we saw him do that.

Pretty good episode - it was an interesting moral dilemma about the issue of the guy and his daughter living in the penthouse and who had rights - I felt some sympathy for both killer and victim which doesn’t happen often. But I lost sympathy for the defendant when he perjured himself and got his daughter to lie on the stand - I wonder if he had just told the truth if they could’ve reached an agreement for a more lenient sentence for manslaughter or something. The jury got the right verdict, the deceased did nothing wrong and was just walking into his own property when he was killed, it was a tragedy but legally the defendant was guilty, and it would’ve set a dangerous precedent to find him not guilty, it would basically allow trespassers to use violence against people defending their homes and that isn’t right. I thought the deal they were going to make was a bit soft, but I guess they thought they couldn’t get a conviction at that point. I really liked getting more focus on Dixon - she’s often underused and it was nice meeting her son and letting her get more screentime. I also liked the conversation between Dixon/Riley at the end, I like their friendship, Riley has been a great addition to the show, it was interesting how Riley called her “Kate” and I liked seeing them just talk as friends instead of as boss/subordinate. Once again Price/Maroun lose a motion on shaky legal grounds, that gets tiresome, and even more tiresome is how it seemed they didn’t do basic research for trial - they should’ve found out about the gun long before they did. I really wish they would fix those areas of the show - all too often Price/Maroun just look inept. And Maroun is starting to rival Serena in feeling sorry for perps. I also wondered if the defense attorney was complicit in suborning perjury - did she know her client and his daughter would lie? The investigation remains better than the legal side, the detective stuff is great, but the show seems to always lose steam when Price/Maroun come on. This was pretty good and I liked getting more of Dixon, and it was an interesting case and legal situation, but some stuff with Price/Maroun and the legal writing continues to annoy me. But it was decent overall.

Here’s the thread for tonight’s episode

Season 7 has so many classic episodes, it’s L&O’s strongest season from a case standpoint IMO. We Like Mike is an excellent episode, great case and I really like the Mike Bodack character - the trial was really good where Mike had to decide whether or not to testify and it was satisfying seeing him do the right thing and testify against the killer, he was in a very tough situation, I was glad they said the Bronx DA dropped the charges against him at the end. It was a frustrating situation with how they had a confession and a ton of evidence against the perp but most of it got tossed because of the screw up where the witness was taken to the courthouse instead of the station. The investigation was great and I liked how they tracked down the perp from the neighborhood watch report. The perp was pure evil and very stupid as well. The donut shop owner was a memorable minor character. Awesome episode all around. Passion is pretty good - the killer was somewhat sympathetic, his mother was awful, she threw him away like garbage all for that asshole Evans and even after her son went to jail for the murder she still wanted Evans, what a sorry excuse for a mother. Her and Evans deserved each other, both were rotten people. Pretty interesting case, even if it did take them a while to come to the right conclusion. Past Imperfect is a strong episode as well, good case about the model’s death and I liked how the investigation turned up the long lost daughter. Good investigation and trial, it was interesting how the victim just didn’t want it to be known that she was a hooker and that’s why she wouldn’t help the daughter with the paternity claim. Terminal is an excellent season finale, really good case and investigation, and Adam had some great scenes where he took the governor to court for removing him from the case. I loved the scenes between Jack and Adam in this episode, it showed the mutual respect they had for each other. The state prosecutor who took over the case was a jackass and a dummy, he blew their chance at getting the death penalty with his cross, he should’ve let Jamie continue to try the case. The final scene of Adam taking his wife off of life support was very sad.

Interesting, I had a feeling that Mariska didn’t want Kelli Giddish to leave, Mariska seemed to push for more Benson/Rollins scenes - I always figured it was a cost cutting move by Dick Wolf and network executives. It will be interesting to see if she comes back to SVU, I doubt she will given how cheap the show is, I mean they won’t even bump Bruno up to opening credits even though he’s in almost every episode.

I agree 100% - why do every man and woman that work closely together on tv have to sleep together? I get so sick of that. Too many shows shove romance plot lines down our throats even when the shows should have nothing to do with romance, such as SVU. But SVU has gone so far from what it was originally about I’m certain that it will end with Benson/Stabler together, the show has become a melodramatic soap opera and given how the shippers are the loudest on social media I am certain they will pander to them.

Yeah I’ve noticed that, unfortunately the obnoxious shippers seem to be the loudest on social media - not all people who are “shippers” are obnoxious of course, but the die hards who attack anyone who don’t support their ship seem to be the loudest voices on various social media sites. Unfortunately I feel the writers pander to these shippers, the “will they/won’t they” E/O relationship has been going on for years and years. The fans who don’t care about the characters romances and just want interesting stories seem to get ignored, likely because they don’t throw fits on social media.

I have the unpopular opinion that seasons 13-14 were actually better than most of the last 2-3 Stabler years - the last 2-3 Stabler years were all about ridiculous over the top plots and having a ton of twists in the episode, and Stabler/Benson were basically the only characters - Munch barely appeared and Fin, Cragen and everyone else had reduced roles. In season 13, the show had much improved plots for the most part, less over the top ridiculous crap and more balanced screen time for everyone - I thought season 13 was kind of a bounce back season, 14 was mostly good as well, and then the show went downhill when Cragen/Munch left in season 15 and it became all about Benson. The second half of season 15 was pretty dismal, and if it wasn’t for Carisi adding a spark when he joined in 16 I might’ve quit watching. Season 17 was actually pretty good - there were a lot of interesting cases and while Benson was front and center she was more tolerable and the rest of the cast was good - wish they hadn’t killed off Dodds Jr, he was interesting and should’ve been kept alive so they could possibly bring him back. Season 18 was the beginning of the complete downfall of SVU - a season of mostly St O worship and weak cases. Seasons 19-20 were somewhat better but not that good, then again season 18 was dismal so it’s hard not to be, and bringing Peter Stone in was a good move as it was refreshing to see another “good guy” call out some of Benson’s crap without being made into a monster for it, too bad they castrated him at the end of season 20 just like they castrated Barba before him. Season 21 was a disaster, the squad was empty, Carisi became ADA but acted more like a cop still, the DAs office was crapped on constantly, and it was all Benson with a side dose of Rollins drama. Season 22’s first half was actually pretty good, and then the second half was mostly lousy with a lot of Benson worship and melodrama. The starts of season 23 and 24 were both dreadful with the seasons improving in the second half some, and this season has just taken the St O worship to such an all time high that it’s almost unwatchable. Right now is the closest I’ve come to quitting - I’m not sure if I’ll even watch next season, it’s basically just a hate watch now and I think Mariska’s ego has turned the show into shit. It’s a shame that the writing is so bad and so St O focused now because the supporting characters are actually good but they have no idea how to use them - I mean they use everyone in nothing more than glorified cameos in the last episode but have one or more people missing during more intense cases that would require everyone. Carisi is basically being wasted now as they have no use for legal writing unless it’s to give St O more focus, it’s absurd that an IAB captain and an FBI agent would accept demotions to work for Benson, Velasco gets almost nothing, Fin and Bruno are great but I’m not sure if they’re enough to keep me watching. This was a long winded post but yeah the show has gone down the crapper now and the St Olivia worship is so cringe inducing that I don’t know if I can continue. The show only appeals to the die hard Mariska fans now, everyone else can see it’s crapola. The Mothership revival gets a lot of criticism, some of it warranted and it isn’t at the same level of the Mothership’s original run, but even with its flaws it’s a billion times better than SVU, I enjoy most of the Mothership episodes, whereas SVU has become so poorly written this season I almost can’t watch it. I don’t have any interest in OC really, it doesn’t even feel like an L&O show and its storylines are very limited and frequently ridiculous and with it going to Peacock next season I won’t even watch it. I’m contemplating quitting SVU and just watching the Mothership, the past 2 SVU’s have been so horrible and cringe inducing I almost couldn’t finish them, and if the rest of the season stays that way I’m probably out.

I got very tired of the trope of Cutter having to use underhanded trickery to win cases - you make good points about the Lucky Stiff trick and like I said he was very fortunate in Pledge. Cutter just rubbed me the wrong way sometimes, he was arrogant and would do anything to win. And Cutter never got in trouble for his tricks.

Season 19 on today - By Perjury is a fascinating episode, with the psychopath lawyer killing people who were getting in the way of his cases and then he tried to shoot Cutter in the bathroom, that was a wild ending, where did he get that gun from I wonder and how did he smuggle it into the courthouse? It was an interesting case and I liked how Cutter smoked a cigarette in the office of the lawyer to prove the guy perjured himself. It was a creative way for Cutter to proceed and I liked how Jack said if they couldn’t find ways to prosecute murderers what the hell were they doing in the job - I also liked how Jack told the defense attorney he decided who does what with the DAs office. It’s a wild case and a compelling episode. Pledge is next, this is another rather bizarre case, the killer was nuts, killing 2 innocent people just to get back at a woman who threw him out of a college party. The way the killer talked about his daughter and resented her for not being “beautiful enough” or whatever was disgusting, I felt horrible for the daughter, what a shitty dad and her mom was blind to who he was. It’s a compelling case but it’s another one where Cutter had to use trickery to win, that got kind of tiresome in season 19, and Cutter was fortunate he found a woman with the same name who attended the same school and who married someone from a blue collar background - if he hadn’t found her I’m not sure how Cutter would’ve gotten the defendant to explode and confess. So it felt kind of like a cop out how it ended, even though the killer’s breakdown was memorable. Lucky Stiff I mostly think of as being the episode without Jack, as he was out of town, made the episode less interesting, and it’s another one where Cutter had to use a trick at the end, I liked Rodgers calling him out for it. Cutter is just not my favorite - he seemed underhanded at times and had a large ego and was a “do anything to win” type. Obviously no one could match Jack as lead prosecutor but Mike wasn’t that likable much of the time, being paired with the awesome Connie helped him. I do like Lupo/Bernard a lot, they made for a good pairing.

Remy is definitely a player, I wonder if he’ll have an ongoing relationship with the lawyer or if she’ll be mentioned again. His propositioning his therapist was just a joke though because he was annoyed with his therapist telling him all his relationships were transactional. And I wondered why they hinted at Kristin/Remy possibly having a fling, that seemed kind of odd since nothing was hinted about it when Kristin was actually on the show. But Remy being a player kind of makes him interesting IMO since it’s unusual for a lead character to have no issues mixing business with pleasure. I know he’s polarizing but I like Remy and the charisma he brings to the show, and I like the way the current team gels - I think this show has really hit its stride right now.

Almost all of season 9 is weird, Palimpsest takes the cake but there are several others that are strange and off. True Legacy is good, and Love on Ice has a very compelling backstory and premise but didn’t really execute it well. Other than those episodes season 9 is either weird or a snoozefest. Glad season 10 is coming up in a couple of hours and then tomorrow night they start season 1 again on Charge.

Season 9 is on to start the marathon on Charge today - season 9 has a lot of strange cases and just felt off as well as very low energy, while I think Nichols is okay, Stevens and Callas were beyond dull and the cases just seemed kind of “off” and didn’t flow smoothly. Palimpsest is obviously the episode that stands out as the strangest and most batfuck crazy, but Lost Children of the Blood and The Mobster Will See You Now are also very bonkers episodes. True Legacy is actually a very good episode though, it had the classic CI dysfunctional powerful family storyline and it was a compelling case that flowed smoothly and had good twists and made sense from start to finish. It’s the best episode of season 9.

Mariska seems to have die hard followers who basically worship her/Benson, it’s very weird I agree, not trying to bash anyone but I just don’t get that level of devotion to an actor/tv character. It is weird to me. And it feels like these are the people SVU panders to, probably because MH enjoys making herself the center of the show and playing the hero.

I like how MW focuses mostly on the cases and has the least amount of personal stuff in the FBI franchise I feel like, and they have the most compelling cases of the 3 shows as well IMO. And I like how the minor personal subplots on MW are spread out pretty evenly amongst the team and one character doesn’t hog the spotlight or bring a constant amount of soapy drama to the show - while I thought Jess was a likable character usually, I got very sick of his kid when he was the lead and it seemed like his personal life got a lot of screen time especially at the start of the show. With Remy it feels like the characters split screen time more evenly - I know some people dislike Remy, probably due to the actor and his previous role as the super villain on another Dick Wolf show, but I like what he brings to the team and I like how the current team gels together, and how no one hogs the spotlight - we’ve seen glimpses into each character’s life, but the cases are the main focus. I’m not sure whether will see the guy Hana met again or not, because I was certain there would be some plot with her new roommate but she vanished, so who knows.

That was a good episode, I liked how we got some focus on Eames and the backstory was interesting. The murderer was very creepy, and it’s hard to believe it’s the same actor who played the awesome ADA Barba on SVU. It’s one of season 8’s stronger episodes. I think Major Case is my favorite season 8 episode and my favorite of the Nichols episodes, it was on last night as well - Henry the forensics expert was a memorable perp and it was a compelling story with Nichols trying to nail him. It’s funny though how if Henry hadn’t tried to frame the innocent guy who had a perfect alibi, he probably would’ve gotten away with it, Nichols wouldn’t have had reason to be suspicious of Henry if he hadn’t tampered with evidence.