DeadlyEuphoric

Oh, I just assumed she would return as Troia tbh and she totally should. Dick had his "grows out of the sidekick phase, finds new purpose, gets new name and costume" bit maybe next year Donna gets to do so for herself. and maybe this "growth" lets her be allowed to use her full powers from now on. Like in death they got "unlocked" somehow. I don't care how they did it, but they better get her powers right somehow. And I totally cheered when I saw Krypto too. heh. Karen is a good choice for Barbara Gordon but probably would never happen. I can fanwank legal troubles get glossed over by Bruce's help and maybe some hacking etc somehow, though for all we know next season they will get mentioned. I do have belief (after the Elko reveal) that some of the stuff that were left unanswered, are required too much of suspension of belief may have an explanation come S3, but we will see. I must say, I think this episode there were times actors failed too. They had scenes where it felt like they were just reading the lines rather than emoting in any way. BUT it is probably a writing problem largely, when the dialogue feels offf and doesn't roll, not much actors can do about it. I think with Rachel stuff we can just assume the Amazons did make her an offer to come along off-screen and she is just finalizing it with Dick. As for the blob thing, it really confuses me. We know Kory landed here on a spaceship, so this is her, her own body, I would say. She and the guard both knew each other and how each other looked (were not surprised at the form the other took) so I would say it was always their own bodies. The blob thing seems to be something Blackfire does, though how I have no idea. And last time it seemed to me it was only temporary and the host body was meant to perish quite quickly. This time, she just took over and went off. If the blob is some parasitical part of her, does this mean her real self is still up in space? And the human she took over wont have her powers? Because honestly, the human really shouldn't be having her powers unless she somehow teleported her entire self through the blob somehow. It is very confusing.

I have mixed feelings about this... The good: Dick/Nightwing. From suit to the action to Dick actually being smart and getting things done and being there when needed. Him apologizing to Gar and owning to his mistake in leaving him alone. Felt like the Nightwing I know and love! Bruce. Love him messing up Mercy's plans and OMG the smiley emojis(. this Bruce actually has a sense of humor (though might be a tad influenced by his villains lol) and TIME for his kids (well at least his possibly favorite kid) and shows he cares and even helps out the Titans. Take note comics writers! Loved the talk between him and Dick. He is great. Jason showing up for Donna's funeral. Awww... Elko. The reveal it was Rachel's doing all along. awesome. Donna actually showing some power. She was able to stand her ground against Superboy for a while (which does make one wonder why she did so pourly against Deathstroke though) AND I think we actually saw her show some superspeed at the very end, which was weird. The bad: the resolution to both Deathstroke and Cadmus was very rushed and lame. Which makes me think in S3 or onward they will reappear but honestly Titans thinking Deathstroke was dead for sure was stupid. They didn't even really CHECK in any way. Dick just looked down and said "yes" lol. Did they just leave him lying in the street like that and went on to the carnival? and never bothered to check again? Dumb dumb dumb. And Cadmus's brainwashing shouldn't have been so easy to break. Although it was nice and made sense for Rachel to be able to reach Gar and loved that Dick figured out how to save Conner we should have seen them doing checkups on them and trying to undo the damage because what Cadmus did was also something physical. The way it is, I feel they might snap back at anytime. Especially Gar. Wouldn't listen classical music around him! Donna's death. Easily the dumbest death ever. Really, show? Deathstroke didn't kill her. Superboy didn't kill her. Falling debree electrocuted and killed her? Seriously? Who did the actress piss of so much? (though guess Rachel will just revive her for S3 so guess no one, they just needed their promos to say "a titan will fall down as another rises" and needed it to be not permanent),, The Questionable Jericho/Rose. So, will they always be a dual act? Or will Rachel came in S3 and fix that situation too after reviving Donna. Because if so they are getting very close to overdoing the Rachel trick where she just fixes everything. But I feel it is a situation that DOES need to be fixed somehow. Was the Amazon whose hand Dick was shaking supposed to be Diana? if not, where the hell is Diana? Blackfire... Err, kind of convenient of her to come down to earth to mess with her sister when we know Kory didn't have the means to go back home and Titans aren't likely to be able to space travel. I am sure saves the show budget too. But really, why would she even bother? But not going to judge too harshly yet, guess s3 will explain it. I am guessing she might be facing resistance to her rule and came down to earth to kill off Kory to put an end to it all. and I still wish Hawk and Dove to have their spin-off and be gone from Titans. But must admit at this point I like Hank better than Dawn. The guy can at least self-reflect and be humble and isnt always "me, me, me, I am great and wonderful, how dare you not listen to me/disappoint me/disagree with me".

I say let Rachel loose on her, tbh. Especially after the "horrific becomes our new reality" speech. See how she likes that particular horrific reality... Agree it shouldn't be Gar, it tortures him to know he has harmed someone. Don't need to add to it. Or even better, let Krypto blast her to oblivion. That way no one runs the risk of feeling guilty about it, and Krypto IS one of Mercy's victims too, so there is poetic justice in it still...

Yes but not sure she was aware everyone was leaving by one by or that they wouldn't reunite immediately once they calmed down. She always had a foot out the door so Jericho story gave her the perfect excuse to bail. Was she really that instrumental in the Titans breakup after all? All she did was do some of the pranks that they all blamed Jason for with no good reason or proof at all, a Jason they knew full well was rather traumatized btw! They were simply horrid there and it had nothing to do with Rose, it was their own rottenness. And still don't know how and why Deathstroke knew about the soda thing with Donna but there was absolutely no reason for them to think Jason would have any such knowledge. In the end, the reason they broke up was their overreaction to Dick's confession, which is mostly on the original Titans and them jumping at the chance to have a scapegoat. They never seemed much into the idea of reforming the team and seemed to look for an excuse to call it quits anyway. So, don't think Rose gets any blame (or credit, as it is) for breaking up the Titans. They did a fine job of it on their own. Actually, come to think of it, does make sense for Rose to be more interested in helping Titans out than Jason would be. Titans have been simply horrid to Jason so he has every reason to say eff them and want nothing to do with them. He can make up with Dick once he has calmed down, but the rest treated him horribly and he owes them nothing. Rose on the other hand, probably feels guilty and if she is also turning on her father, especially after finding out the truth about her brother's death, she may be interested in joining forces with Titans and helping them against Deathstroke.

Neither do I. Dont care for cage fighting, dont care for Hawk's sex problems, dont care for his drug problems. So was kind of zoning out during his scenes. Faux Hawk and his problems with his step-parent and how he is practically homeless and all alone at the age of 16 was much more touching for me and got more of my empathy. Oh and I found it pathetic that Hawk had himself being announced as "undisputed leader of the Titans". He is such a loser. And says a lot about his problems with Dick. It was nice to see Donna and Dawn actually manage to track the Cadmus guy down and be useful. Esp love that lasso got to shine. I was getting very upset when that idiot Dawn was trying to talk Donna into taking down Cadmus on their own just because she doesnt want to face her ex (and for some reason they were ruling out the rest of the Titans without even trying). Which is even more stupid and reckless than any one of them trying to face Deathstroke alone. Thankfully they got to their senses (or at least Donna did) and called the rest of the Titans. Jason being played is bad, but on the other hand he shouldn't have been as gullible as to pour his entire heart out to basically a stranger he met 2-3 days ago just because she is pretty and has sex with him. It is not like Rose hasn't been shady and cold and rather closed off. Rose being more "Titans need us, we need to help them" than Jason was weird. Rose, btw, is an idiot. She has a loving mother and stepfather. A nice life. And she left it all behind for an asshole of a father she barely knew who she knows is dangerous and showed no real love to her at any point. The fact he showed up to ruin her prom alone says a lot. And her prime date got stood up. She paid for that by losing an eye so far and was actually ok with even that till she fell in love with Jason, really? I am guessing her "leaving Titans" had to do with realizing her father has been playing her and not wanting to be a part of his plan anymore after finding out the truth about Jericho's death but might be giving her too much credit. I think show does a good job of showing Bruce cares for Dick and tries to take care of him, even from a distance. And he knows Dick well. Hallucination!Bruce is more a manifest of Dick's self-hatred and doubts and fear of letting Bruce down and not being good enough. And Dick probably does judge Bruce a tad unfairly as kids tend to do with disciplinarian and demanding parents that are not easy to live with. Loved the suit people being pissed off that Dick burned the suit and them calling him drama queen. Lol Also glad that it turns out Jericho's mom purposefully said "they" and lead Dick to the room Slade is in, in an effort to get Dick clues in and get him to help save Jericho. She was trying to enlist the heroes her son believed in and wanted to be part of. Also glad Jericho has no bad feelings regarding Titans and doesnt blame them despite 5 years of Slade trying to influence him. Instead he has seen the real truth about his father and agrees with Titans - he needs to be stopped at all costs. Cant wait for Slade to be taken down. He is a horrible person and father. Poor Gar. I hope Mercy suffers a horrible death for everything she did to him and have him do to innocent people. Loved Kory and Rachel scene. Kory is just great.

I still say there is no way they will make it so obvious who is the fallen Titan in the promo (would be very unprofessional) so all those clues are a misdirection.

Connor is there next to Kory. And Hank is at the very end. I highly doubt they would really give a clue on who the fallen Titan is on the promo, people have noticed Donna's lasso is near the casket, so there are definitely clues to it being her. But I think both are just visions of Rachel. My candidate for the fallen Titan is Hawk, unless they are still going for the spin-off, and he gets his "focus" episode right before the finale to make his death even more impactful. Of all he feels the most expendable character for them and then we are left with Dawn who probably sticks around as has no where to go and we have ourselves some relationship drama between Dick-Dawn and Kory for s3 I guess. (and if not him, Jason but too early for Jason to be killed off. Really doubt they will be killing a female character, esp with S3 getting a Kory focus feel Donna would be there. Rachel is a possibility only if it is a bit of a fakeout and she gets "reborn"/revived come beginning of next season, end of episode because "supernatural parentage!").

Ok I am excited. And Nightwing looks badass! 🙂

It sure was leading to that, and as Dick's arc that is perfectly fine. The problem is not giving the others their own arc and something to work with. Been a rather mediocre season for most if not all of the rest. At the very least Kory & Connor could get some more spotlight I think what with his being the season Connor got introduced and Kory lost her parents (but her arc is being built to be the next big thing in S3 so there is that). But they didn't get enough. (still doing better than the rest). I get that it is not always easy to give enough time to every single character and there will be characters one focuses on more, and as "lead" Dick will probably always get better treatment than most (and as a fan I can live with that lol) but they do need to do better than this. Rachel taking more of a backseat was understandable as she got the spotlight last season, but the rest needed more, especially the original Titans, and mostly Donna. Hawk and Dawn got more focus than her I think, but it was not interesting and repetition of the same, to the point I actually do not look forward to the Hawk episode at all. Lost me at the "cage fighting addict" thing. Donna really didn't get anything. Her love story was rushed and over in a bit. As was her "stuck between duty and love" stuff (if one could call it that, it definitely didn't register through much) or "vengeance" bit. This show doesn't give its characters enough time to show their emotions and depths and inner struggles - except for Dick and his Ghost'Daddy. As for putting the Nightwing reveal at the end of a Hawk episode, it does injustice to both, so hopefully not going to happen.

They better NOT be revealing Nightwing suit in an episode dedicated to and featuring Hawk.

I have no idea what they are doing with them either. I believe they had a considerable fan following last year which gave them the idea to do a spin-off. I was neutral regarding them. But this season has been really bad for them. They basically suck the fun and energy out of any scene they are in lately, so hard for me to imagine they could carry a spin-off on their own, they are simply not interesting and layered enough. First three things that pop to mind when I think of them is judgemental, whiny and depressed. That is a very bad combo. The only enjoyable scene with them was them singing and that is more on the actors than writing. It is a general problem with the writing for the Original Titans too. We know Dick loved the Titans and cared for it a lot and it shows, but feels every other member could have cared less for the team back then, and could care less now. That was an epic fail of an approach to doing this. You are writing a super-hero team show, you want your audience to love the team and feel excited about it, and you achieve it through enthusiasm of the characters where they want to be together and together are able to do great things. Here, we are in season 2, and most of the characters are going around acting like being part of that team was and is the worst thing ever , and except for a few personal shining moments, as a team, they don't come off as that competent... I am at a point where, next season, I want Titans to be just Dick and the "new" generation who are excited about being a Titan and being part of a family, and don't want any of the Originals involved, because they so clearly don't want to be there. Sometimes I feel at the root of their anger at Dick lies the fact that he got them involved in Titans in the first place. Like he was this needy kid who wanted a team, and they were just humoring him, and ended up suffering for it so are now pissed off at him... It is sad, though, I wish Original Titans team was half likeable and rootable. The reason it is worse for Hank and Dawn is probably because this season there is just no saving grace to them. They are constantly a let down.

I didn't mean *I* see Dawn as the mother hen, I do see the show trying to go there with her but they are failing miserably, that is what I meant. Kory definitely fits it better, she actually sticks around and has their backs and tries to take care of them all, for one thing. lol

Not sure show Dick/Dawn can work at all at this point, so hopefully they won't go there. Actually if I am lucky, no Dawn next season. Dawn and Hank clearly have no interest in being a Titan and I can't take another season of their reluctant, judgemental, whiny existence within this team. They aren't happy as a Titan and they spread their misery. Dawn in general doesn't seem to have that great relationships with the women in this show? Don't think they were that close with Donna, they probably never saw one another after the split. She doesn't talk to Kory. Cant remember there being a really memorable scene between him and Rachel (unlike Kory and Rachel who are obviously close). Dawn's world exists of the boy she is currently dating. And I think she is supposed to be somewhat the mother hen of the group, thinking of the safety of the young ones first and feeelings and morality etc but that doesn't really come across much. Would like Gar to have some focus, but hate the idea of him spending many episodes not being himself but some spy/sleeper agent Cadmus lobotomized to ultimately betray the Titans. I would like an "in-control of himself" Gar getting some spotlight, be it dealing with the aftermath of the experience with Cadmus and their experiments on him or something else. Besides "someone from the team betrays them" plot is so played out.

Rachel's dream aside, the rest was him hijacking TV or Radio to implant in them the idea they should go to Elmo or whatever it was... Rachel's dream happened on its own IMO, as in she sensed she had to go to Elmo, as that is where Titans would be meeting. Or Bruce got a telepath or something to put the idea in her brain. Of course it was all a bit too dramatic and one does wonder he could probably simply call like a normal human being and set up a meeting with them the normal way. Doubt they would decline. The problem for me is, Donna and Dawn do not have the knowledge we have about Dick's and Gar's situations. All they know is Dick is locked up in prison, which may be his own doing, but Rachel is seeing dreams of him dying -killed by Deathstroke no less!- so he is possibly in imminent danger that he is not aware of. And that Gar and Superboy are missing and need to be rescued. Bruce just gave them a speech on how important it is for them to be together and work as a team and pretty much told them to rescue Dick (pretty sure he was doing his magic with the diner TV). Donna, even before Bruce's speech, was desperately trying to reach Dick as she knew his help was much needed to find the lost the boys and rescue them. So, as far as they know, Dick is in danger and in need of help AND Gar & Superboy are in danger and in need of help. Of the two, they know exactly where Dick is, and have good reason to think it is Deathstroke going after him to kill him. So, going to his rescue as a team would take what, a few extra hours? And with Dick back in the fold, their chances of finding Superboy and Gar would be increasing. Instead they abandoned him once again, split from the team to go look for Superboy and Gar on their own. In doing so, they pretty much abandoned Rachel and Kory on their own to deal with Deathstroke -and they didn't even know Kory was going to help out, it very much seemed like it was going to be Rachel on her own!- If there is one thing these people should know, it is you never ever face Deathstroke just on your own... So, it wasn't a carefully thought strategic decision, it was a decision made with a "he wants to rot in jail, fine by me!" attitude, just because they are upset with him over Jericho and the fact he got himself in jail in a stupid effort to pay for his "mistakes", a state of mind they very much had a hand in putting him in, btw. They have a problem with Dick's self-hating and self-punishing, but don't have a problem with putting all the blame on him all the time, completely ignoring their part of it all. It bugs me on so many levels. Worst friends ever, if they can be called that.

The blabbering idiot of a psychiatrist one-night-stand pretty much said so too..

I didn't mind Bruce showing up to play Daddy to Titans and knock some sense into them. The way they have been behaving, deserved it. I also absolutely love that he did not include Hank. Hank is useless, Bruce could of course care less about him. Wish he had left Dawn out too but maybe he thought because she is important to Dick, she should be there for the rescue mission or whatever. The part I don't buy is him doing absolutely nothing about Jason & Rose in Gotham, but I guess he now likes to treat Jason as Dick's very own problem. Or maybe, because they are in Gotham he already has an eye on them and doesn't want them involved with Titans business right now, especially if he has suspicions about Rose. Also love love LOVE that Dick figured that Jericho is alive. Ghost!Bruce can be tiring at times as damn Dick has problems but I love Ghot!Bruce, it is a great insight into what Dick is thinking and feeling. Looks like finally Dick is getting out of self-pity party and is aware he has other responsibilities AND figured out Jericho is alive. He is supposed to be a detective and more than that, trained by Batman himself he is supposed to be very aware of smallest of details. And he obviously was. He needed "time" to go over it and finally solve it, but he HAD noted all the clues along the way. Love that. And the fact he got out himself. YES, he should have.. Guess he will end up getting the Titans all back together and really hope he can tell Donna and Dawn off for trying to put all the blame on him for everything next time he sees them. Those two need to be taken down from their judgemental high pedastals. Actually, Dawn simpply needs to go. So done with her. Donna and Dawn didn't learn much from Bruce's speech about being family. Yes, Gar and Connor needs saving (ASAP) but Titans arent going to accomplish much unless they are together. And these two are still so angry at Dick (which they have no right to be, they are simply projecting) that they continue to abandon him and the rest of the team to do their thing. Poor poor Gar. I do blame Dick in part for this, he should never have left Gar and Connor alone. I just hope he is rescued and saved from it all by the end of this season and that this doesn't play onto next season but it will probably go into next Season 😞 I don't mind that much if Kory is pregnant (if that is what that is about) as I am rather fond of But a baby is not something that is likely to work within Titans, so here is hoping they are going the "she is a mess due to personal drama" way about this. When Kory said she found "love" in this world, I believe she was talking about Dick. Aww... Also, I take it Dick ran away but prison guards werent even aware of that? And gotta love he left behind a note explaining his reason for escape, in case guards were curous OR Titans showed up. So thoughtful. 😛

no Hawk & Dawn which makes me happy. No Kory, which saddens me... So Dick thought landing himself in prison with a "feel free to kill me if you want" attitude is the best way to atone for his part in Jericho's death? I want to reach into the screen and shake some sense into that idiot. Who is, in the meantime, partly responsible for Cadmus getting their hands on not just Conner and Krypto again but also Gar. They were in his care and he left them all alone. But at least looks like his prison stint is going to get him out of his funk and make him find his path again. He helps people, that is what he does. It is also why he is the guy everyone calls when they need help. Speaking of calls, if I didn't know better, Donna's first phone calls to Dick would make me thing he is the one who turned his back to her and abandoned her and she is the one trying to get him to talk to her again. I really hope we get a proper reunion scene for these two where they talk and make up. So opening scene said Dick is sentenced to 7 years in prison with no probation (how does that NOT make the news btw, Bruce Wayne's adopted son who is a detective gets arrested and sentenced and it doesn't make the headlines?). But how on earth can he be tried so quick? And when the guard checked his file it said "awaiting trial". So he didn't get the trial and the 7 years thing is what the prosecutor is asking for? Is that it? What book was he reading in the prison? They are going for a different origin for Nightwing than in the comics (and I really love the one in comics) but I am fine with that, actually. It works for this show, and his character's arc in this show. Not a big fan of Rachel's story so far... Feels like we already did the "batttling with the demon inside" thing last season with her. Mercy's boring family was boring and a waste of screentime. I don't need them to know Mercy is devoted to her work or that she is rigid. And having a family doesn't make you any less of a villain or heartless manipulator.

Oh ok, that makes more sense. Thanks. Dick really should have known better than to leave Gar all alone like that. He didn't just leave the one guy who was still on his side, he also put too big a responsibility and burden on him. 😕

Yeah made no sense. If what they knew is Deathstroke killed his own son, then they were angry at Dick for involving Jericho in the first place and making him a target for his father. But that was on ALL of them. Furthermore, Dawn should have gotten more of the blame if that is what they believed happened as she is the one who talked Dick into letting Jericho go meet his father all alone. What did she do, threw Dick under the bus and pretended it was his idea and decision all along? lol. Also if they thought Deathstroke is a crazy maniac who will just kill his own son, why would they disband and stop trying to catch him and let him run free? It seems they disbanded simply because they were too afraid of Deathstroke, but collectively decided to make the official reason be "angry at Dick" because that is easier on their egos. I think out of the core 4 only Donna is likely to do it, which would be fitting and is rather a needed Donna/Dick reunion moment. Where she apologizes for leaving him and putting the whole blame on him and makes him feel a little less like a failure maybe and stresses the team needs him. If not that, I do want him to see the message from Gar on his phone and come to that realization himself. He is needed and has to get his game straight and do the right things NOW rather than dwell on the past so much and keep repeating those mistakes and letting it run all his decisions and actions. Hank and Dawn are too involved with their own stuff so don't expect them to be involved with Dick right now. Hank generally could care less about Dick and is supposed to be going back to drinking I think. And Dawn will probably be too busy trying to fix him again. Besides I really don't want her toxic judgemental self anywhere near Dick, he feels horrible about himself anyway. He needs to regain his self-respect and self-worth and Dawn has the opposite effect. I kind of expect Bruce to be involved at some point because Jason -who he left in Dick's care- is out somewhere on his own, Conner is out there attacking policemen, and Dick just got himself arrested for attacking airport security. Daddy will NOT be happy. What I didn't catch is if he hung up on Gar or never picked up. They may be postponing his involvement if he is "too busy" and unavailable right now. It really was. Dick wants to help the new generation and he is right they do need help and a place to belong and call home but he is too lost in his own problems to do it right. He needs to get his act together and treat this as a fresh start. Which I gues what this is all leading to... Probably with Kory's help and guidance, though not sure about it as now SHE has own big problems. Titans really need a proper win soon, btw. All they got to do this season is bicker endlessly among themselves and get beaten by DS at every turn. They don't seem to be good for anything except beating up some common criminals, which is embarrassing. A big part of the problem is the depowering of Donna. But with Conner and Kory and Rachel being added (assuming the team will properly reform) they will hopefully become more equipped to actually do some super-heroing and maybe poor Donna will be allowed to come off more powerful from now on.

I was most disappointed in Donna too, because she was pretty much all in about using Jericho from the very beginning as wanted revenge for Garth. Never seemed to have the second thoughts Dick had about it. And Dick WAS going to let Jericho and his father meet and it was only after Donna almost got killed herself that he went off to face and try to stop Deathstroke. So Donna being all "he got a kid killed and lied about it!" and turning on him for that is very hypocritical. Speaking of hypocricy. Rachel is the last person to be upset with anyone about keeping secrets. It is not like she is an open book herself. but did like her giving Donna the "you were all part of it" speech. And I think her leaving was more about her condition and not wanting to put anyone in danger (she almost killed Jason and killed Rose after all!) and using the situation at hand as a way to go far away from them all, rather than actual anger at Dick. It gave her an out, without needing to explain her real reason for leaving, and ensure they (especially Dick) would leave her be. About had enough with Hank and Dawn's holier-than-thou attitudes and angst. I think a big problem with the show is, Titans were supposedly very close and like "family" but they sure don't come out as such. They seem to barely tolerate one another, really. Especially the Hank, Dawn, Dick triangle. And Dawn and Donna may had some friendship but doesn't look like it was anything special and Donna probably wouldn't notice it at all if Hank was gone for a whole month, don't think they have any connection whatsoever. I think the "I won, and now you get to be alone" speech was Jericho. The death threads (which came after a power struggle between Jericho and Deathstroke) was DS. Dick was going to go into seclusion (so giving Jericho what he wanted) but I think Jericho took over his mind (poor Dick, always gets possessed!) and made him go to prison, probably thinking that may be a safer way to ensure Dick never gets to reunite Titans again (thus protecting them from his father) and also as further punishment for Dick. Guess he doesn't expect Bruce to just spring Dick from prison come next episode like I do... heh. Also, I am of the opinion Jericho's mother is as much to blame for his death as anyone else. SHE set Deathstroke on Titans on a mission to bring her son back (I think she even said "fix it") and pretty sure she knew (and couldn't care less) that it would lead to their possible deaths (this is DS after all, we all know how he "fixes" things). It went horribly and her son ended up being the one who got killed, but she set it all in motion.

I don't expect Miranda and what happened to her to be a problem between Thomas and Flint. Thomas knew Miranda, knew she was not just some weak woman who did whatever she was told, with no brains or will of her own. Miranda chose to stay with Flint. And Flint was in some way continuing to work on Thomas' work (of reforming pirates by creating a self-sustainable community) and Thomas is not one to take an issue with a person being idealistic and having visions of freedom... Besides, Miranda died not because Flint dragged her to some dangerous adventure, she died on a trip she insisted on and planned, killed in the middle of "civilization", visiting an old friend and ally of Thomas' after bringing him his daughter safely back home, supposedly staying under his roof as his guest. And she was killed by one of his men, not because she was being threatening or anything, she was merely shouting at the man... She was killed simply because "civilization" cant seem to resist the urge to kill/get rid of those it deems as "others"... Thomas knows very well how conniving and brutal and ruthless and dangerous "civilization" can be. If we are to go with TI and the story there as "ultimate truth", I think it still doesn't rule out the Thomas/Flint happy ending of Black Sails. It is possible Flint was reunited with Thomas, and they spent some time together happily. And then Thomas dies, and Flint is left all alone in the world, having to go through the agony of losing Thomas once more, with nothing to do really (no crew, money, ship, probably getting a bit too old, possibly having lost the old flame and belief of having the opportunity to change the world & by then piracy was no longer living its golden age). I can see him feeling very much worn out and beaten by life in general and turning into a sad alcoholic who has nothing but his old memories to hang onto now...

I started rewatching the show and even from first episode, creating Nassau as a safe-heaven from "civilization" was always Flint's vision and plan. He was trying to build a life for himself there, free from yolk of others, their own fortress. I think with Miranda dead too, his rage made him lose sight of that vision from time to time, but it has always been there and an ulltimate goal of his. He is not all about chaos, even if he may appear to be to others. That doesn't mean he wasn't blinded by his own idealism and vision, it wasn't really something he was capable of achieving, however much he may wish it, others could see it, he did not. Which is why for others his "dream" is a nightmare, because the fighting will never stop, as he can never really achieve it... As for Flint's end, even if Silver had a reason to lie to Madi about it, Jack didn't. Just the opposite, life would be much easier for Jack if he could honestly tell Mrs Guthrie that Flint was dead as per her orders. Jack's whole speech was one trying to make her see Flint didn't need to be dead to cease to be a problem, that him retiring was just as good and something that would benefit her. Otherwise all he needed to say was "Flint is dead, but to ensure he is not seen a martyr to the cause we have decided the official story is he is retired". And Flint didn't just accept his fate. Silver mentions he didn't believe Silver's story of Thomas being alive and resisted it all the way, only to give up as they were near the shore, maybe because he was just physically exhausted by then, but maybe also because even letting himself have some hope of seeing Thomas finally has a calming effect. Actually, when they took him to the camp, he was in chains if I am not mistaken. He was brought there as a prisoner, against his own will. It ended up being a happy occasion for him, but till he saw Thomas I don't think he truly believed it himself. Do I think Silver would kill Flint if he thought he was in the way of Madi and his happy ever after? I think he might, yes. But I think when he told Flint he either accepted his fate or he had other way to deal with it, it was more about giving Flint a chance to get out of this with less of an ego bruise and more integrity or not. They could part ways as friends and comrades and equals, coming to a mutual decision or they would part ways with Flint as Silver's prisoner being forced to do what he demanded (and of course in danger of his life, as crew was likely to harm him if he tried to escape...). Flint had the choice to make things easy for himself and Silver or not, and he chose the difficult way... Don't think Silver really had to worry about Flint causing him problems later on. Even from the beginning of this show, Flint was shown as a brilliant tactician and a great captain with horrible relationship with his crew. He always needed someone else to mitigate things between himself and the crew and keep them in line and act as a buffer. Come the end of the series that person was Silver. The crew was no longer Flint's, it was Silver's crew now (and some of them were Jack's). When left at Savannah Flint has nothing left. He doesn't have a ship, doesn't have guns, money or a crew. Hard to wage a war in that situation. And I am sure Silver counted on Thomas actually being alive to act as a further incentive for Flint to not start waging a war again. With Thomas, Flint has something to lose. So, even if he did escape the prison with Thomas, not surprising that he wouldn't go back to "Flint" persona and start pirating and wage war again. Silver once asked Flint if he'd give everything up for Thomas (when the Spanish was attacking Nassua, though can't remember the exact wording. Flint didn't answer but his silence was answer enough. And Silver knows/believes from his own experience with Madi that Flint would opt for a happily ever after with Thomas. What Flint had was Madi, her belief and support in him. The moment Silver separated those two, he won. Without Madi around, Flint had no one in his corner in that final confrontation with Silver. Jack and his men were already there to kill him. Silver's own crew wouldn't have a qualm about killing him (just hours ago they were trying to do just that). He still had Silver, in the sense Silver wanted to keep him alive (Jack's story of how it is better Flint is retired, as killing him would just create a martyr is very likely to be a speech Silver gave him tbh) but Silver also wanted an end to the cause and "Captain Flint". So Captain Flint was beaten and done. And without "Captain Flint", Madi doesn't have the general to lead her army and spearhead her fight. She is rather left on her own corner too... This is also why the treasure needed to remain buried. To ensure the fight wasn't happening, the treasure needed to be kept away from Madi, with her having no hopes of getting her hands on it to fund her war. With Flint taken out of the picture, she lost both. Though I am pretty sure Silver had a hard time explaining to the crew the treasure needed to stay buried, I wouldn't be surprised that he could pull it. He has a special hold over them, they'll do anything he says, even when they know he is lying/wrong (like when he managed to have them all turn on Billy). Besides the men were pretty much worn off with all the fighting and the promise of an end to it, and Rogers being sent off and Nassau back in their control, the pirates probably were willing to just let the treasure be. It was never promised to them as personal fortune anyway, it was always seen as a means to fund the war. ETA: Speaking of Jack's speech.... It was quite a nice way of the writers explaining the discrepancies between Treasure Island and how they left things. I think in a way, they are saying this is how it really went in their story and in their reality, and if things don't really seem to fit into how it sounds like in TI that is because stories get distorted. We have seen it during that scene with the girl and Jack, she knew some of the stories about pirates right, and then some of the other stuff she heard were simply made up and extremely wrong. One never knows the actual reality... I am not saying they are claiming their story to be the "ultimate truth" I am just saying, as they are the storytellers, this is the truth in their story, and if it doesn't match with another version of the story, it is because that is a story told by another storyteller, neither version necessarily claiming to overlap perfectly or having superiority over the other or a better claim to the actual truth than the other... Maybe Thomas/Flint lived happily ever after in a prison camp, maybe they were miserable, maybe they escaped and made a new life for themselves under another name, maybe Thomas died and Flint drank himself to death.... Maybe Flint & Billy had an encounter years later which is when Flint gave him the map to the treasure for whatever reason. Maybe Billy found the treasure when marooned there, and later drew the map in hopes of one day returning to the island with a crew of his own and getting it. Gotta love all the possibilities and how everyone gets to pick and choose the version they like....

Oh yes that... That was another part where I felt Flint knows, because he knows Silver well. Also made me think of Miranda/Flint and wonder if he was seeing parallels between him and Miranda and Silver and Madi. He loved Miranda, deeply, but it wasn't enough to just make him settle and try to build a happy life. Part of it was the rage about what was done to Thomas and the need for vengance, true, but I really think part of it is also because Flint just can't settle down, he was looking for something greater, to "matter" - which can very much tie into what was done to Thomas, how weak and helpless it made Flint feel for not being able to stop it, and how he got determined to never feel that way again, to prove himself to be stronger and unbeatable-... I think all those great speeches he gives aren't just him being manipulative, he believes in them too. It is not all that different from Jack and his need to make a name, in that sense...

What a great end to a great show... Maroons got their freedom. Pirates got rid of Rogers. Thomas/Flint, Madi/Silver, Ann/Jack, Max/Nassau.. "Heroes" won, one way or other.... "I will stand here with you, for an hour, a day, a year while you find a way to accept this outcome so we might leave here together" "I will stay. And I will wait. A day, a month, a year, forever... in the hopes you will understand why i did what i did". I love it so much that Silver gave a similar speech/promise to Flint and Madi when trying to make them both see things his way and understand and even, forgive him. They were, and are the two people he came to care for the most in this world. I am pretty sure of it... And his smile when talking about Flint and Thomas' reunion was also rather telling, he was geuinely happy for Flint, imo. Which is why I am sure the story was true.) The Silver/Flint friendship has been one of the highlights of this show, and I believe both men genuinely cared for one another, despite all the betrayal and manipulation. I never doubted that Flint intended to save Madi, not just for the "cause" but also for Silver's sake... I thought his refusal to give the treasure was not just about needing it for the cause, it also came from knowing Rogers wasn't to be trusted (the guy didn't even agree to a plan his own wife set up, and rather had the Spanish invade & burn and butcher Nassau, for God's sake, Flint knew better to deal with that man again). Flint and Silver get one another in ways no one else gets them. They have shared the same kind of heartbreak, the same intense blind rage, the same kind of deep love so they can relate to each other in a special way not privy to others. They think and "feel" alike. Billy, Silver and Flint both pretty much referred to this in this episode... And I think that is why despite the betrayals their bond persisted. It is why Flint wasn't really angry with Silver for sending people to kill him and seemed to shrug it off. And I think it is also why in the end he was rather resigned to what was to come. He knew, the moment Silver backed Jack's demand to remain behind I think Flint knew something was up. And in the end he just sat there, waiting... Waiting for Silver to come and to talk to him. He wasn't threatening, he didn't bother to fight him - looked like he didn't even bother to have his gun and sword with him-. If it was anyone but Silver, I don't see him being so calm... Flint can't bring himself to kill Silver, in some ways he is all that Flint is left and as he can't kill him, he eventually had to let him call the shots and decide their fates. The difference between the two was, Silver had hope, he had a chance to get his dream of happily ever after with his true love being a reality, while all Flint had left in his life was avenging of a love lost. So of course Silver would do his best to "end" Flint (in part so Madi was left without an option), and doubt he'd stop even if "reunion with Thomas" wasn't an option. If he had to choose, he'd choose Madi over Flint, just like he chose Flint over Billy, though he rather not have to choose, of course... Thomas, in a way, saved both Silver and Flint in the end. Flint got to live, and Silver did not have to live with the knowledge he had to kill/harm Flint to get to his own happily ever after. It does look like the moment Silver learned of the possibility of Thomas being alive, he saw an opportunity for himself to leave all this behind. One does wonder what would happen if the Spanish didn't invade Nassau and Madi didn't get captured. How would he reveal the knowledge to Flint. Doubt there would have been a rescue mission for Thomas, as I don't see the pirates being inclined to risk their lives for him, Madi was another matter, she was an ally and seen crucial to their efforts. But Flint would go to save him somehow. Maybe he was hoping with Flint gone, and thus being the bad guy who "betrayed" the cause, he could somehow convince Madi to leave it all behind too. I don't know... I am not holding it against Silver that he didn't reveal about Thomas till now, though, as I don't think he really got a good opportunity. I get that while grieving it didn't occur to him to tell Flint about it, but I assume he would have revealed it soon. But once finding out Madi was captured I think he withheld the info on purpose as he needed Flint focused on saving Madi too... Thomas and Flint reunited is a happy ending, but hard to ignore the fact they are basically imprisioned... They probably don't care as long as they are united, and I think as long as they do the labor demanded, their wardens don't care either as to what they do in their spare time, but I do! There is something rather sad that the man who was spearheading a war of freedom is the one who ends up in shackles and locked up in the end, though. So in my imaginary world I'd like to think Flint just won't sit still for long and will find a way for him and Thomas to escape that place... Anne/ Jack have been another highlight and their bond has been unwavering. They may just be the only 2 people in this show who never betrayed one another. I like that they came to good terms with Max and the three are a team now, but I feel it will always be Anne & Jack first and foremost. And they won't stop their pirating ways, of course... Max is pretty much living Eleanor's dream. Ruling a Nassau that may look part of the empire on paper but rather autonomous in practice with the appointed governor being one of their own choosing too. And business seems to be booming. Billy came off unhinged when he put that knife to Madi's throat. The stuff he had done is going to haunt him forever. And marooned in the Skeleton Island, he will have more than enough time to rethink it over and over, and so become even more deranged. I don't find it surprising that by the time he got rescued from the island he'd have become extremely paranoid waiting for a reckoning day, and hearing just the name Long John Silver making him freak out. Eh, serves him right. Love that Jack got to be part of Roger's downfall and him and Flint fighting Rogers together was cool. Flint was a soldier and has been a pirate for such a long time afterwards and is so crazy determined when he sets his mind to it, that it doesn't really surprise me when he comes out on top in his fights. Though it never looks particularly easy for him, so they do a good job with writing those. I also appreciate that they make Rogers hard to beat in one-on-one sword fight and Jack or Fliny didn't just manage to just best him on their own.

Not only have they made Will omnipotent in his profiling and shown to know very much how the serial killer he is working on feels and thinks, in that scene he is the one actively calling Chilton in to the picture. It is one thing for Chilton to want to be in the picture and Will exasperated, agreeing to it. It is another for him to purposefully invite Chilton in to the frame, when the man is just happy to have done his part in helping them out (including giving the kind of interview THEY wanted him to give) and was just sitting the rest out. The plan was for Will and Will alone to rile the Dragon up. The picture was also supposed to be all about Will and giving a hint to Red Dragon on where to find him. It was all so meticulously planned and geared toward making Red Dragon strike. Then Will goes ahead and invited Chilton into the picture. and doesn't just stop there, he also puts his hand on his shoulder. That is why he doesn't really oppose it when he is accused of setting Chilton up. He knows what he did. and yet, I don't think he was "purposefully" planning Chilton to be hurt and/or killed. It was the dark side of Will getting the better of him, doing something out of curiosity ("hmmm, wonder if the Dragon will go for Chilton if I signal him as my pet?") and it is not something he does %100 aware. He realizes it only after being called out on it.That is kind of the difference between Hannibal and Will. Hannibal creates chaos, and sets people up for horrible things out of curiosity and because he likes it and he does so fully aware and on purpose. There is a part of Will that has the same kind of curiosity and the potential for creating that chaos, but it is not something he taps into, or acknowledges. He is not actively creating chaos... He doesn't get a kick out of it the way Hannibal does. But the potential is there and it is that potential that Hannibal is trying to unearth... I think they did want this Chilton to be more competent and likeable than his book/movie versions. I remember him talking about Will if memory serves) and his inability to crack him using the line "Fumbles at his head like a freshman pulling at a panty girdle" which is a disparaging line Hannibal uses regarding Chilton in the movies. ı think it makes a difference. When Hannbal saiid it, It was him mocking Chilton for his lack of talent and ability and knowledge, When it is Chilton who says it, the same line just because something he said to voice his own frustration at dealing with a difficult patient and gains him some points for being selfaware and realizing his limits.. He wanted fame and success, and could be rather sleazy about it all and wasn't as brilliant as Hannibal and Alana in his line of work (and seemed to know that), but could still manage to make some good observation and was right about a number of things. The man was onto Hannibal before Alana an Jack woke up to the fact, that alone gains him lots of points from me!