Sighed I

Aw man, you mean I spent all that time writing a long ass post and you're still not convinced?! ;) Actually, it wasn't so much I was trying to convince you he's repulsive as it was explaining why I, personally, find him disturbing and don't trust him for a second. I don't find him repulsive exactly myself; whether that changes remains to be seen. I believe the writers and actor want us to feel ambivalent about Hickey. Did he rescue Manson from going into the dead room because he was helping a friend, or is it a calculated move so Manson will owe him one later? Did he fix the lid on David's coffin as a sign of respect, or did he spy the ring on his finger and saw an opportunity to snatch it while making himself look good in front of his mates in the process? I liked Cornelius from the beginning. For starters, I'm a sucker for dimples and Adam Nagaitis' smile... <fans self> ;) Seriously, though, I liked his swagger and his cool, found him charming and witty. He's mysterious, and has secrets behind his eyes. There's a very seductive quality to his character. But as I said before, stuff started niggling at me, and as he grew more brazen, it was a lot easier to look back and recognize a consistent pattern of behavior. It made me completely reassess his character and confirmed, in my view, that my instincts were right. I love how this show forces me to think, even question reality. What is the truth, who is to blame? I saw (or read, I can't remember) an interview with Jared Harris and he said one of his favorite things about the show is the characters are written from the assumption that they're right, their version is the truth. We're supposed to see how this tragedy unfolded from many angles, through many different perspectives. I don't blame Hickey for being enraged. I would expect him to be because it's consistent with his character. Tom Hartnell, on the other hand, would not. He would be, and was, contrite. All I was saying is it was a defining moment in shaping my view of the character. I watched Hickey cross over to the dark side in that scene, and saw murder in his eyes. YMMV. I do empathize with Crozier. He's made some questionable decisions for sure and can be kind of an asshole; I also think there is some justification for his bitterness. But yeah, it's (well past) time to suck it up and do his job. Franklin's paternal warmth may be comforting but it's not enough to keep them alive. I do think Sir John cared about his men, but he was reckless with their lives and they all paid the ultimate price. I'll take the asshole who keeps me alive over the surrogate father who gets me killed. ;) Thanks. Once I got going I thought aw, hell, let's go for broke! ;) This show is like an onion and I enjoy peeling off the layers. Sometimes I can't bear to look at Hickey, yet I can't take my eyes off him either. Till now he mostly made me uneasy, but in this episode he truly disturbed me. Killing Dr. MacDonald was my personal "I'll never look at Hickey the same way again" moment. Thank you. It really does make you look back and see previous events in a new light. And yes, he popped in and saved the day when Manson freaked out. On its face, he was being a good mate; to me, it was more calculation than altruism. I think we'll find out in the near future. And yes, he most definitely counts grievances. You guys are making me blush ;), but thank you. Hickey conceals so much, a lot of what he's done has been pretty open to interpretation, and as this discussion illustrates, still is. For me personally, he becomes more transparent in this episode, which validated some theories I'd been kicking around about the character.

For me it's a lot of little things which added up over time. In the first episode, when he was in the mess hall, he was very fixated on the wrongness of a dog possibly "outranking" a man. It seemed like a petty thing over which to get his knickers in a twist. When David Young started coughing up blood, Hickey recoiled and backed away while all of the other men tried to help him. Neither of these things are all that odd on its face, but it was enough to get my attention. The first thing that really made me go "Hmm" was when he shit in Gibson's bed. To me that was a display of dominance, and brought to mind animals marking their territory. Gibson threw him under the bus, though, so at the time I brushed it off as a disgusting but possibly justifiable act, at least from his point of view. But then he went into the captain's quarters, poking around in Crozier's personal stuff, and read the letter he'd written to Sir John. That raised my eyebrow. Later on, we learn he's not permitted to even be in that part of the ship unless he's been assigned a specific task there, so not only was he violating Crozier's privacy, he took advantage of no one being on the ship to snoop in an off-limits area. That suggested to me he's a man who doesn't respect protocol, and does what he wants when nobody's looking. After that, he kidnapped Lady Silence. His reasoning for acting had a certain logic to it, but the fact of the matter is, Terror is Naval vessel and what he did was a major violation of protocol. He's not an officer, and it wasn't his place to make such a call. At the very least he should have spoken to one of the officers first. Crozier had already decided to question Lady Silence the next day. Hickey wasn't privy to that, and by handling it in the way he did, he made the situation more antagonistic than it needed to be. Crozier needed information from her. He understood the need to treat the woman with respect. Hickey had already tried and judged her guilty. Now she was scared and even less inclined to talk than she already had been. Maybe it wouldn't have taken her a month to talk if she hadn't been manhandled and threatened with violence. He argued with Crozier and would not back down, becoming increasingly insolent, disrespecting the Captain and questioning his judgement and authority. He thought he would be rewarded for his initiative, but misread his relationship and standing with Crozier. When he was lashed, his face turned into pure rage. As someone in the episode thread put so well, we saw a villain being born in that scene. Sure, you could say of course he'd be pissed off, but to me it went beyond that. It was the actor's performance which convinced me the character had turned a corner. When he bribed Gibson to spy for him (and we find out that he pilfered David's ring), he said he wanted to know "which officers were unhappy, and why". If all he wanted was inside information to stay in the loop--what are they doing with/about the supplies, what decisions command might be considering, etc.,--why the emphasis on the unhappiness of the officers? If he'd said he wanted to know about their morale, I might be able to rationalize it as him wanting to get a read on how serious their situation was; by asking specifically who was unhappy, it suggested he wanted to use that knowledge to create or exacerbate a wedge between the officers. They are in a life or death situation; why would he want to destabilize the command structure? Then we have what happened in this episode. Maybe I could rationalize him touching the Private's brain once out of curiosity, but based on the squelching sounds, he was poking at it repeatedly, maybe even squishing it (excuse me while I barf ;). He was insubordinate to Lt. Des Voeux, even staring him down. There's been some debate in this thread about whether he intentionally killed a man, but I remain convinced there is no way he couldn't have known that was a man he was cutting into, and believe that's what the actor was trying to convey. If these were isolated incidents, I might chalk it up to him being a bit of a conman or a rogue, and if they'd never gotten gotten stuck in the ice that's probably who he'd be, breaking a few rules here and there but clever enough to slip by undetected. All together, though, they add up to a man I wouldn't turn my back on. He told Gibson Crozier saw something in him, that it could "lead anywhere". I think it goes beyond schmoozing his way up the ranks. If the conflict between Crozier and him hadn't happened, he probably would have been satisfied with being the Captain's right hand man. But now that he hates him, I believe Hickey believes he's capable of and should be running the show. Only he knows nothing about command or running a ship, and even if he has prior arctic experience, it pales in comparison to Crozier's. Blanky is probably the only one who even comes close, and he doesn't have command experience. Hickey's smart and often two steps ahead of the other men, but he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does and makes a lot of assumptions based on partial information. He can't see the big picture; he can't see past his own ambitions and ego. That the character arouses such strong reactions, both positive and negative, is a testament to the actor's portrayal. No doubt about it, Hickey can be very charming. Sociopaths and narcissists often are.

Ooo, the Mary Celeste does sounds interesting. I'd love it if they stayed within this general time frame (pre-20th century), kind of a historial/period piece, based on real life mysteries. The cast is so amazing I'd love to see them back too, a la American Horror Story.

Dr. MacDonald had a knife, but Hickey killed him before he could use it. :(

Thanks for your thoughts. Your interpretations fit too. Overall, I appreciate that the writers have chosen to "underexplain", allowing the viewer to come to their own conclusions; I tend to see such choices as respect for the audience's intelligence. Sometimes, though, I wish they were a little more explicit and left a tad less to the imagination. Perhaps this is on purpose and we'll find out the significance of these events, exchanges, etc., later. So far, everything that's happened and everything we've seen has come into play somewhere down the road. That said, maybe in the end, the exact reasons don't matter in the grand scheme of things and I'm way overthinking it. ;)

Upon rewatch, I agree that in the aftermath of the fire, Cornelius looks like he's in shock. Given their situation, the fact he'd already been disciplined and that he seems to keep things close to his chest as a matter of course, it makes sense he would conceal what he'd done. This show is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Some things were out of their control (the tainted/spoiled food, the weather), but for the most part it all comes down to human error (including the food, though certainly not these men's fault). As each piece falls into place, I ask myself if they might have had a chance if x character had zigged instead of zagged in a given situation. At what point did the situation cross over from "they may have a chance to survive" to "some may have a chance" to "they're all doomed"? Hickey knows enough and is smart enough to be dangerous, but isn't smart enough or know enough to save them. He reminds me of Sir John in that respect. And like Sir John, he has the confidence and charisma to lead men to their own destruction. As you said, the men have to stick together and support each other if they're to have any chance of survival, and as Blanky told Fitzjames, when things get hard, survival comes down to a head game. That's what Hickey is playing, only he doesn't know all the rules. Like Sir John, he thinks he does, but he's completely out of his depth in this situation, and that blind spot could to get them all killed. I understand he's scared and angry, his brain addled by lead poisoning and who knows what else. If I were in his position, I might see things the same as he. As an outside observer who has the luxury of seeing the big picture, though, I see him as a destructive force, a direct threat not only to Crozier and the other officers, but to them all.

I believe he did what he did for pragmatic reasons and not out of viciousness, but the way I saw it, he knew that was a person pressed up against the canvas. The look on this face while he was doing it, and the lack of expression when Dr. MacDonald fell out dead suggests to me he made a decision and was not only not that troubled about what he had done, but he got a little rush from it too. If Collins, who seems like a perfectly upstanding guy, is plagued by dark thoughts (presumably from the lead in their food), I can only imagine what's going through Hickey's head, especially now that he has a chip on his shoulder. He terrifies me. Adam Nagaitis is doing an incredible job. Sir John Ross was the man who questioned Sir John Franklin about his rescue plans and general lack of preparedness in episode 3. If having two Sir Johns (and several regular Johns ;) wasn't enough, there's also a Sir James Ross! This show almost requires repeat viewing to keep all of the characters straight. I've watched each episode several times (I'm obsessed ;) and there's tons of character development and arcs, even for minor characters. At some point, though, I did have to go to IMDB to sort everyone out. Now that I know who all the characters are, it's added so many layers and deepened my appreciation for the show. Most viewers aren't like me, though, and yours is a fair criticism. Ideally, you should be able to pick up what happened on the first view, leaving subsequent viewings with all its extra detail for the geeks like me. ;)

The guy's were open and unblinking since he was attacked. It was creepy, so they tried closing his eyes. Every time they did, his eyes would open again. The sealing wax was to keep his eyes shut. This episode was the most difficult to get through thus far. I do have to say I loved Blanky and Fitzjames' conversation, foreboding and, well, terrifying. Ian Hart knocked it out of the park. The exchange between Crozier and Jopson was beautiful and a much needed moment of kindness and affection. Same for Bridgens and Peglar's book recommendation scene (I read these two as lovers, personally, and get the impression they've been together for years). But wanting things to go right for them, just once, is clearly too much to ask. Fitzjames was being a good leader, trying to do the right thing by his men (and earn some goodwill along the way). Then Dr. Stanley burned it all to the ground. D'oh! Thus our next blow: many useful, or even necessary items/supplies were destroyed in the fire. Now the food crisis is about to come to a head. And they only have one doctor who's not technically a doctor left to care for them all. I like Tom Hartnell, and Sgt. Tozer. I hope they side with Captain Crozier when Hickey stages his mutiny or whatever other devil things he has planned. Crozier needs allies among the men. I think the ones who see the Captain knows what he's doing (more than any of them) are most likely to remain loyal. It's the ones foolish enough to think they could do better who'll be the problem. Of course, throw in lead poisoning, scurvy, malnutrition, starvation, etc., and all rules go out the window. I've grown to like Fitzjames more and more. He's a good counterbalance for Crozier with the men, and I respect him for being honest and honorable enough to admit he was wrong, and wise enough to seek the counsel of those in the know and take their advice (unlike his predecessor). I really care about him now and am sorry to see him showing symptoms of scurvy (?). That doesn't bode well. :( I loved Crozier's rally to the men, as inspiring as anything Sir John penned. He was stepping up, taking command, being the leader his men need. Then it all quite literally went up in flames. Thanks again, Dr. Stanley. :p In any case, between the immolation, Hickey poking around in that poor Marine's brain and later gutting Dr. MacDonald (RIP, good Doctor), not to mention Jacko bashing her own head in, there was so much darkness in this episode it was hard to watch. I usually watch it twice in a row because there's so much to take in, and I did see it a second time, but I had to think about it first. Tonight was the first time I hesitated. I dread more than ever what's to come. Moments of kindness and beauty remain, but every time a glimmer of hope flashes something else goes very wrong. It's all very tragic, and this is only the beginning. Edited to add: Did anyone notice Hickey not only disobeyed Lt. De Voeux and kept on pissing, he stared him down too? Lucky for him the Lt. was plastered, but his pointed insubordination was a very uncomfortable moment, a portent of what's to come.

This scene was one (of many) which really got to me. Yes, Hickey was trying to help them get out, and he did yell for the men to step back, but he decided, purposefully, to gut a man to cut his hole instead of trying to find another place to cut the canvas where men weren't obviously pressed up against it. He showed no remorse, either. The man he sacrificed was their doctor, one of the most valuable members of their party, but it could have just as easily been one of his friends. I'm not sure it made much difference who it was. At this point, I think helping his mates has more to do with his own machinations than it does really caring about his fellow sailors; he's playing the long game. If he can get the men--who greatly outnumber the officers--on his side, he puts himself in a position to seize power. He knows the score and by killing Dr. McDonald so easily/dispassionately, Hickey demonstrated he's willing to do anything, even murder, if he thinks it will help him stay alive. So don't feel too bad for him. He's still a creep. ;)

That makes a lot of sense. My initial thought when I saw the episode was she was telling him they had to leave if they wanted to live. After reading some comments later on (on other websites) stating otherwise, I started to wonder if I read it wrong, plus it was obvious Crozier was a mess, so I could see it fitting on that level too. But I think you're right. I believe alcohol didn't exist in Inuk culture at that time, and she's been telling them they needed to leave from the beginning. Crozier has resisted leaving, I suspect, at least in part, because he knows a great many men will die from exhaustion and exposure if they leave, even if they had more provisions for the journey. He's in denial that they have any other choice, and she gave him a wake up call. Yes, people will die, but it's guaranteed they all will if they just sit there doing nothing until the food runs out and/or they freeze to death.

I'm curious about others' interpretation of a couple of scenes: When Lt. Little went to get Lady Silence to take back to Terror, he saw the men had left a bunch of tokens where she was being held. What was the purpose of these objects? Superstition because having a (clothed) woman on board was considered bad luck, or for protection from Tuunbaq, assuming she has some influence over/controls the creature? Gifts for the only women they'd seen in years, hoping to win her affections? Something else? When LS rips into Crozier, she says he wants to die, and knows what he has to do but doesn't do it. Was she talking about his alcoholism or all of them abandoning ship and leaving the area? Or maybe both? I read the first scenario as superstition about women on board. I read the second as telling Crozier he was a mess and that they should have left long ago and should be doing something proactive now instead of hiding in the ships and waiting; his refusal to do either is sealing their fate. The recaps I've come across have differing takes on these scenes. How did you interpret them?

You know, it occurred to me last night as well--I don't think Tuunbaq has attacked Erebus. It has to be for a reason. Seeing as the man who shot the LS's father was on Erebus, and Sir John was the one who ordered the man's body dumped down the fire hole and they were holding LS there for a month, you would think it'd be focused on that ship. So why has it chosen Terror? RE: the food. I think it's a combination of lead poisoning as well as improper canning/food poisoning since they have noted some of the provisions are already spoiled/inedible when they open the cans.

It may be the improperly canned food was bad long before they got there, perhaps some of it even before they left England. Speaking of food, that slop in a can Goodsir fed Jacko just about made me hurl. Not saying it wouldn't be positively mouth-watering if one were on the brink of starvation, but from the comfort of my warm, well-stocked home, ewwww. I do think Jacko is Goodsir's guinea pig, poor little girl. I wonder how long it will take for any symptoms to show? She's much, much smaller than the men, but it's taken years before they started showing obvious symptoms. I don't think she's afraid of Tuunbaq in the way the Brits are either. I suspect the creature wouldn't outright attack her (for now), but I do think she's afraid of its power. It reminds me a little of someone taming a tiger. You might be able to train him to do your bidding, but never turn your back on him. Maybe it's one of those things where if she doesn't get a handle on Tuunbaq now, it could gain even more power until it does end up turning on her and her people. I agree she probably doesn't care about the sailors, aside from Goodsir, but I got the impression her father was in the middle of teaching her to "control" or "moderate" the beast when the Brits showed up and everything went to hell.

When Crozier and his men were questioning Lady Silence, Goodsir mentioned she hadn't tried to escape or even mentioned leaving during the month she was on Erebus. As Blanky said, she's scared of Tuunbaq too. That's why I think it may be more than her simply escaping the ship. Whether it has anything to do with directly helping these men or not, to me it seems like she feels some sense of responsibility for this creature, or getting it under control somehow.

Another great episode. I haven't been this riveted by a TV show since Breaking Bad ended. I wasn't sure I could watch this series, becoming attached to the characters, knowing from the onset they're all doomed. I'm so glad I gave it a shot. Yes, I do care about many of them, including minor or supporting characters, quite a bit more than I expected, actually. Yes, I feel a twist of dread in the pit of my stomach every week. And yet, I have to know what happens to these people. Well done, show; I applaud you. ;) Random thoughts: Based on Crozier & Company's conversation with Lady Silence about Tuunbaq, I'm wondering if she followed the creature because since it's injured, it may give her an opportunity to "bind" herself to it, or at least establish a relationship, while it's in a weakened state. If she can manage that, she might be able to influence it, if not control it. Given the Prologue in episode 1, it doesn't sound like she's successful in the end, but at this point in the story, I think that may be her intention. As if I didn't need another reason to love Mr. Goodsir, he calls out Dr. Stanley and Cornelius in delightfully blunt ways: "Has anyone ever invited you to a wedding, Dr. Stanley?" and "Does that really work with anyone, Mr. Hickey?" LOL! I've wanted to smack Dr. Stanley upside the head since the first episode. I think Harry's newfound cheekiness has to do with his growing confidence as he gains more experience, coupled with the stress of their situation putting everyone on edge. I enjoyed watching Lady Silence nail Crozier. I love the man, but he needed to hear that! Maybe the burgeoning friendship between her and Mr. Goodsir has built up both their courage. I'm so relieved Crozier's finally going to dry out. I'm just sorry it took Blanky having to lose his leg before he saw the light. With his extensive polar experience, I was thinking/hoping Blanky'd be among the last survivors, but with a missing leg, he won't be going anywhere should they abandon ship. :( I thought he was a goner tonight. The cat and mouse game with Tuunbaq had me on the edge of my seat. Great teamwork on everyone's part. I understand they need to differentiate between characters, but when it's 52 below and you're talking about exploding teeth, it makes it challenging to suspend disbelief watching our characters outside with fingerless gloves (or none at all!), not having at least part of their faces covered, wearing improper headwear for the elements (or not securing the ones that are). For the most part the show does an incredible job of making you feel the cold, but little details like the above in some scenes, takes me out of the story a bit. Something is going on with Lt. Little. For the past two episodes he's seemed on the verge of...something. Whatever it is, he's losing his grip. On the one hand he seems fairly loyal to Crozier, on the other he appears on the verge of mutiny, or a nervous breakdown. Gibson is dickmatized. That's the only explanation I can come up with for allowing himself to be charmed and manipulated by the very man who SHIT IN HIS BED. As if cutting off a guy's frostbitten toes and the flesh tearing off Tozer's (?) hand weren't enough, we break out the bone saw (I had to look away). Scary thing is, we know it's only going to get worse...

No need to apologize!! Great minds think alike and all that ;) Plus it's nice to know it's not just me kicking the theory around.

You're not alone. :) I remember throwing out the possibility several episodes ago, but I believe I posted late in the week and no one commented on it. IIRC, every time we see a dinner scene at Oleg's family's place, there's quite the quantity and variety of dishes spread out on the table. In any case, involved or not, the Minister (and his family) benefits greatly from the unequal distribution of food and resources. That said, I'm also entertaining the notion that the KGB has gotten wind of the CIA's interest in Oleg and are sniffing around, trying to figure out why that is. As time goes on, the more I'm leaning in this direction, especially with his partner's line about Oleg having nothing to worry about as long as he didn't commit high treason. Hello, foreshadowing. Run, Oleg, run!

Well, put me into the "Loved This Episode" column. I haven't had time to post much, but I feel like the last few episodes have been really terrific and look forward to watching this one again tonight. The wedding came as such a surprise and was mesmerizing, beautiful and romantic, no small feat considering the setting (Where were they anyway? An underground tunnel of some kind?). I've always felt Philip's love for Elizabeth has driven the development and growth of a real relationship between them; I find those moments when she recognizes, once again, the depth of his devotion so moving. It's like he keeps surprising her, and slowly but surely the real Nadezhda emerges, letting him deeper into her heart. Le sigh. ;) I interpreted the Oleg and family dinner scene as none of them knowing what to say now that the truth about his mother's imprisonment was out. What was the reason for his father silently spooning another helping on their plates? I'm not sure. In some ways it seemed like a knee jerk reaction of a man of who's used to being in charge, kind of "I don't know what to say or do so I will do this relatively meaningless gesture because at least I'm doing something." Or perhaps it was an acknowledgment that "this shit is all kinds of awkward, but we are still a family". Of course, I could just be looking at this waaaay too deeply. ;) Not super thrilled to have Paige back after such a brief respite, but I found her scenes better than usual this week. I loved the ending montage and am going to have to look for screencaps of Pastor Tim's diary. I rewound the scene and tried freezing the different shots, but it was hard pausing the DVR at exactly the right spot each time. I may be wrong, but I felt like that Philip at least recognized some of the truth in PT's words. I think Elizabeth did too, though to a much lesser extent, when she and Philip both look at Paige and she looks at them like, "yeah, Mom and Dad, this is kinda how I've been feeling; do you get it now?" Is it just me, or does anyone else think with Claudia back in charge of P/E, PT's "job offer" will result in the Groovy family ending up six feet under?

I really enjoyed this episode and thought it was one of the strongest of the season. So much to comment on in response to others' posts as well as my own observations, but since I have to go to work shortly I'll have to cut it short for now. I think as they were trying to figure out good meeting spots, they realized she was so afraid there was no ideal public location for their rendezvous. That's when they came to the conclusion they needed to set up a safe house, like Stan did with Nina. I agree. You could really see the gears turning in Elizabeth's head. Part of it, I think, was saying the words; the last thing Elizabeth wants is to see herself or be seen as a victim and acknowledging the rape means accepting she was. I also think she was trying to make sure she chose her words carefully so Paige got the "right message". Good observation about the way she framed it. I thought it was notable, too, that when Paige moved in to hug/console her mother, Elizabeth stopped her. Can't have too much vulnerability now. This conversation is about being strong, not weak! I know Elizabeth has come a long way, but I can only imagine how she handled the kids' bumps and bruises when they were little. Paige is right; her mother has a terrible bedside manner. I know she was trying to help Paige not be afraid, but I can't help but feel she's also working the recruitment angle. Still. Sigh. I agree with your entire observation here, but I lost it when I read the part in bold! OMG, if nothing else the constancy of Paige's eyebrows and expressions provides an ongoing source of really funny quips on this forum. :D I don't hate Tuan, but I hate how casually he came up with the idea. It's not unlike when Elizabeth commented it didn't matter if Evgheniya and the CIA guy continued with their relationship, that was the Center's concern. Their act is so convincing at times I sometimes underestimate how little regard they have for the people whose lives they wreck; the whole exchange was a cold, stark reminder of that. Exactly.

I remember that comment, and Paige's response to the question made me go hmmm as well. She desperately wants to believe in something and make a difference in the world, but she also seems to have this need for someone to give her all the answers. Maybe part of the reason she's so vague when questioned about her beliefs is because she's been so busy following she hasn't actually taken the time to really explore what she herself believes. I've always enjoyed that part of Philip's story line, so it's nice to see aspects of EST potentially coming into play here, especially given the disdain Elizabeth has expressed about Philip's continued interest in it. Seems fitting, somehow, if this thing she's always dismissed as a waste of time and money contributed to (one of?) the most honest conversations either of them have had with Gabriel.

I think you're right. It's similar to the situation with Young-Hee in the sense of a mark getting to her, but this is the first time the target of a honey trap has wormed his way (albeit unintentionally on his part) into her psyche. Given her issues about being in control, particularly when it comes to sex, I think she might be feeling foolish that he "pulled the wool over her eyes." I predict she'll have a real hard time reining in the attitude next time they meet up. Heh heh. I agree. On one hand, Philip's ability to see the humanity in the people he's working has made him vulnerable to guilt and a potential liability. Elizabeth, meanwhile, has had much less trouble compartmentalizing (with a couple of exceptions), in large part due to her ability to dehumanize her targets as pawns of "the enemy" and therefore expendable. While Deirdre has Philip stymied, he's not taking her standoffishness personally. If anything it's got to be at least a little bit of a relief that the chances he'll break Deirdre's heart are basically zero. Ben's "betrayal" has left Elizabeth much more off balance. She is taking it personally, because she let her guard down, just a little bit, and "got taken". I'd like to think this might cause her to reflect a bit on what she's done to others, as it has Philip, but I have a feeling she'll choose the opposite tack, harden and withdraw so she'll never be "fooled" again. Yes. The more she learns about her parents' work, the further the distance between her and PT. It also appears her faith is wavering, so there isn't even that to maintain their bond. At this point she's so just going through the motions, I wonder if she'd bother with him at all if it wasn't for him knowing about P/E. I think he does feel like that's what she needs from him. Gabriel sees the vulnerable, approval seeking girl beyond her hard exterior and the way she responds to his encouragement. I can definitely see a parallel between the way Gabriel handles P/E and the way P/E handle Paige and Henry. I really like this theory and it makes a lot of sense! Gabriel's confession to Philip was one of the most powerful scenes in the episode, so I'm glad you reminded me of it. It was very humanizing, and did come about in an EST kind of way for Gabe to admit, probably for the first time, that his decision to join the KGB was about survival, not conviction. And as all those devastating memories came pouring out, the horror of that long-buried truth may have been the proverbial splash of cold water he needed to say what he really felt. Gabriel planned on leaving with a few choice words of wisdom (as he did with Elizabeth) but after all the messiness of his career, capped off by lying to the people who are about the closest thing he's had to family, Philip's questions really got to him and, as you say, this was pretty much his last chance to speak openly about such ugly things.

It's funny you say that, because when I first wrote it I put "played by". I don't actually think he's playing her for the reasons you stated, more like from "Brenda's" perspective she thought he might really be into/falling for her, only to find she's not quite as special as she thought she was. It's hard sometimes to be completely clear when writing this stuff, especially when I already have a tendency to write long posts. I guess I'm not as good as The Americans' writers at subtext. LOL

Well, I'm late to the party, but I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. Despite some excellent performances, I was a little underwhelmed the first time I watched this episode. However, I did like it more after a second viewing. Overall, I found individual scenes quite good, but the parts, despite their thematic similarity, didn't flow together as a whole quite as smoothly as I would have liked. I liked the different expressions on P/E's faces during Gabriel's conversation with Paige, Elizabeth beaming with pride while Philip appears unsettled and uncertain about the whole thing. The look they exchange when Gabriel talks about how many lives they've saved was very interesting. How many lives have they actually saved? Do P/E even know? Philip's scene with Deirdre was quite amusing. I liked how she tapped into Philip's neediness. He's trying to make inroads with her--and finding her a hard nut to crack, much to his chagrin--and that could be the source of what she's sensing about him, his need/desperation to make a connection so he can get on with this thing. Part of me also wonders if the mask is slipping, just a little bit. Everyone is so tired and burned out, their hearts just aren't into it. It doesn't help that this particular mission takes them far from home so often. Speaking of which, why are they continuing on with this op anyway? They know there's no evil conspiracy to poison their people, and now they have the wheat. Is it about Alexei? I'm not sure if I missed something along the way, but I don't understand the Center's reasoning for not putting this one in the done pile. The scene where P/E are spying on Ben in Mississippi was really well done. Philip's side eye and Elizabeth's stunned silence when they caught Ben canoodling with another woman cracked me up. No matter what she said later, Philip knows damn well Elizabeth cares. It's interesting to see the shoe on the other foot. Throughout the series, P/E have been the ones manipulating others for their own purposes. While we've seen the toll their endless deception has cost them mentally and emotionally, they've still managed to connect with their marks without too much difficulty. This is the first time I can recall Philip being unable to get inside someone's head, and Elizabeth being played by (or at least misreading) the person she's supposed to be playing. Count me in with those who find Pastor Tim a little creepy in his scenes with Paige. It's like he tries to be a peer/friend and a mentor at the same time or something. Not that one can't be friends with a mentor, but their relationship has a weird vibe. Maybe it's her age and vulnerability that makes it so uncomfortable for me. Nevertheless, I did like their conversation in this episode. As someone mentioned upthread, I interpreted the scene as PT attempting reconnect with Paige but instead discovering his influence on her is waning. Frank Langella was great as always. I hope this isn't the last we see of Gabriel, and now that he's gone, I wonder how P/E are going to find out about Mischa. Maybe the folder Elizabeth stole will start them down that path? While I understand why he handled his final conversations with P/E differently--giving Elizabeth praise and reassurance, speaking frankly with Philip--I felt the way he spoke to each of them about Paige could put P/E in conflict. He didn't tell Elizabeth straight out to keep working on Paige to bring her into the fold, but I could see Elizabeth interpreting it that way. Meanwhile, he was very clear with Philip that Paige should not be part of this life. Given how guilty Gabriel feels about lying to them, I can't see this as a deliberate deception on his part. Does he trust Philip more to share his true feelings about something which could be interpreted as traitorous? He has to know Philip will tell Elizabeth eventually, though, so the whole thing has left me feeling a bit discombobulated. I found the U of I reference jarring too; was it a tell that Renee isn't who she says she is? It seems too sloppy an error to not to be deliberate, but then you have Matthew's hair, which totally reads late 70's to me, so... Mattaige breaking up scene was good. I liked the shove, callback to Momma's lessons, showing it's sinking in. She's going to regret saying she had "too much stuff going on" as a reason for breaking up with him. Looking at the situation from the outside, I think that statement will pique Stan's interest once he hears about it. I miss Martha too. In many ways hers was the thread that tied the myriad stories together and added a lot of tension from the fear and paranoia of exposure. I agree with those who suggested the loss of this thread may be a big reason why season 5 feels so different from the others.

I think if the Center decides to off Philip, they would indeed declare, "Mission over. Elizabeth, get your kids. You're going home." Now, given they have to know E/P have a real, loving relationship, I think they'd set it up to make Philip's death look like an accident (not that Elizabeth would buy it). Plus if he dies accidentally, it could mitigate the need for an investigation by the authorities, as long as they're careful to choose the "right" kind of death. I imagine they're watching Elizabeth (almost?) as closely as they are Philip, looking for signs that his discontent hasn't rubbed off on her. If they determine Philip is a lost cause and she's been contaminated, they both go bye-bye. Not sure what they'd do with the kids, but I'd think their first choice in that situation would be to repatriate the kids and "reeducate" them (not saying that would work either--one miscalculation the Center may have made in all this is how American these kids are). But I think the most likely scenario would be to pull E/P out and send the whole family home and give Philip a chance to get his head on straight in the safety of the Motherland, where he'd be easier to contain (or so they think... He is a super mega spy after all ;). I don't think they want to kill either one of them--they are heroes after all-- and they'll only go that route if E/P force their hand by defecting or going on the run. Oh yes, I agree I was wrong on that point; I should have conceded that more clearly in my previous response. I was on a roll in my condemnation of the E-Ville KGB and in my zeal misremembered some of the details of that particular story line. ;) I'd like to address some of your other points, but unfortunately I have to go to work now. I'll finish my thoughts later.

Heh heh. I hate when that happens. One time I was on another board and decided something I'd posted was TMI. I was in the middle of editing it out when someone replied and I was like, well, TMI it is. LOL /off topic ;)