Sighed I

I think I messed up the formatting here a bit, but since you quoted me I wanted to clarify my comment. I think everyone in CDB was scared shitless, Carl included. But his reaction, along with Michonne and Abe's, were in stark contrast with the others. I read it more as they all knew one of them was going to die, but (in Abe's case) he was willing to sacrifice himself to protect Sasha (and perhaps the others). In Michonne and Carl's case I think it was more of a "if you are going to kill me I will not cower and let you take my dignity as well." In Carl's case, I suspect there was also some (teenage) anger and defiance mixed in there. The gang's reaction fascinated me because it brought to mind the Kobayashi Maru test from Star Trek. How do you conduct yourself in a no-win situation? Some cowered and pleaded with their eyes (Eugene), some avoided eye contact and knelt, back straight, tears streaming down their face (Sasha), some seemed to dissociate completely (Rick). I was less surprised by Michonne and Abe's stoicism, because it was very much part of their character. But Carl surprised me. Why did Negan choose the person he did? Did the way each individual responded in that moment have anything to do with it? It may be an interesting angle to ponder, once we find out who he killed.

I can respect this point of view, and agree you and anyone else has the right to disagree and voice your opinion, even if it may be an unpopular one, about anything which happens in this show and any other. And perhaps you are right, and after the initial uproar dies down, those of us who are unhappy about the way they handled the build up to Negan and/or how they ended the finale will be in the minority. However, and I am not saying it is you who said this (I don't have time at the moment to search for specific posts), some people have characterized others fans' strong negative reactions to the finale as overly emotional or "butt hurt". And that, IMO, is disrespectful. Yes, I suspect the vast majority of us, myself included, will get over it eventually because our love for the show outweighs our disappointment. But it is just as valid to feel as though you have been manipulated and strung along all season only to discover they intend to string us along for another six months (or more). At least for me, it feels like a cheap publicity stunt, not a valid narrative choice. And right now, some of us need to vent. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of a show pandering to its audience. I do want them to tell the story they want to tell. At times I, too, have felt some viewers have been overly critical about the show's faults, perceived or otherwise. But after all the hype, all the months of trusting the show runners' repeated assertions that "the wait would be worth it", in the end, at least for me, this whole season-long "here comes the Dreaded Negan and the Saviors" story line [bum bum bum] felt like nothing but a long con and it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I liked this as well. Michonne and Abe stared down Negan too, and were far braver than I would have been (likely catatonic in a fetal position, lying in a pool of vomit and excrement) but Carl was cold as ice, the embodiment of "don't ever let them see you sweat." I agree there was some foreshadowing there. I think Carl's unwavering defiance impressed Negan. What better way to break Rick's will than to take his son and turn him against his father?

Ultimately, this is what bothers me the most about the cliffhanger. This is the internet age. People will want to know, they will find out through any or a combination of the above tactics, and one way or other, it will be spoiled, repeatedly, whether through overenthusiastic carelessness or flat out assholishness. That robs (many of) us of the emotional resonance this moment was supposed have on the audience. Given how big this show is, at this point the only way a person could remain unspoiled is to completely disconnect from the internet and not talk to anyone about the show for the next six months. Having the night to sleep on it, I've found more to like about the episode, but I doubt I'll ever be convinced ending the season in this manner was the right call, on any level.

Great observation. I hadn't thought about that, but it really was a nice bookend. I tend to read more than I post, but it's observations like this from other fans which keeps me visiting these forums. Also, when Alexandria got overrun by walkers, they were in pretty much a no-win situation, yet somehow they found a way to fight back and survive. That success brought the community together and made them stronger. On the other hand, beating those incredible odds made them overconfident, even arrogant. Now they find themselves completely helpless, truly in a no-win situation (for now, anyway), just like at the beginning of the season.

I don't read the comic either, and this is exactly the problem I had with the build up to Negan. Constant comic book spoilers left and right for months, even in freaking headlines to articles about the show. Show viewers speculating on the plot, only to have comic readers pop in again and again, (sometimes smugly) commenting how off base people's theories were, dropping "hints" so obvious a cave salamander could see it. I love JDM (he'll always be John Winchester to me--hubba hubba), but in the end Negan's intro fell flat for me. It was just like the intro of Abraham, Rosita and Eugene--artificial, two dimensional...like a comic book instead of a TV show. It took me a long time to see those three as living, breathing characters instead of caricatures. For Negan, all that was missing was him twirling his mustache. Plus he wouldn't...stop...freaking...talking (what is with these Saviors and their damn monologues?!). It just feels like another instance of, oh we must have this "iconic moment" from the comic, word for word, frame for frame. For me as a viewer, it rang false. Hopefully once the tediousness of his introduction is over, the show can move on to what it does best--using the comic as the framework for the plot and developing the characters instead of being a slave to it.

I don't want to get too deep into talking about TTD in this thread, but I did have to comment on something Scott Gimple said tonight when Chris asked him to respond to those fans feeling angry/disrespected by the cliffhanger. Gimple said something along the lines of he wanted us to feel like we were there with CDB, kneeling in that line, not knowing... The problem is, at the end of the episode CDB does know, but we, the viewers don't. How can we be with them, feeling their fear and their grief in that moment, it they have knowledge that we don't? If anything it separates us from the characters. To the second point, overall I think Scott Gimple has done a fine job as showrunner. For what it's worth, on another board I visit, an individual who said he works on the show describes the relationship between the show (Gimple and co.) and the comic (Kirkman) as a dysfunctional marriage. He said the plan is to deviate more from the comics after season 7, but Kirkman's ego is the primary roadblock to that coming to fruition.

I listened to it a half a dozen times, and other than Negan's voice, I couldn't hear any others beyond screaming. It sounded like more than one person screaming person to me, though one was definitely louder than the others. Course, I could just be in denial. I love Glenn :(

Yes, we did. I just rewatched it. Negan says, "My mother told me to pick the very best one and you" pauses, points bat at Rosita, at Aaron, at Glenn, "are" points to Maggie, points to Daryl, Abraham, Carl. You see Rick's face only (don't see the bat, just Rick sweating and trembling), pause, looks like Negan's still moving, then he stops, points the bat, "it."

On a more positive note, I did enjoy the B story with Carol and Morgan. It was good to see her getting through to him. Finally he got it. You don't have to like killing, it's okay to avoid it when you can, but in this world, sometimes it is necessary. Plus I liked them meeting up with people who seem, at least at this point, to still have hold of their humanity. That cliffhanger was well done.

YES to both of these. Hershel was one of my favorite characters, and I HATED losing him. But having the break to process and mourn the loss, so to speak, helped me to empathize with the characters' loss that much more when the show returned. I agree they risk having a lot of fans feeling more detached once they finally make the reveal, because so much time will have passed, so many debates will have been beaten into the ground, people will just want to know who the hell it is and be done with it. I'm sure it'll still be very upsetting once we know, but I don't think it will have the same emotional impact as knowing now and spending the summer speculating how the hell CDB is going to get out of this clusterfuck. This episode DID NOT have the impact on me they were going for. I love this show, and I shouldn't be feeling like the people running it has contempt for me as a viewer. This is the first time I've felt downright angry after an episode. Worst season finale of the series, IMO.

I have really enjoyed this half season. But I am seriously pissed off they ended it on a fucking cliffhanger. It's bad enough knowing someone died so brutally, but to drag out the victim is so disrespectful to the audience. We would've spent the whole summer talking about the show even if they ended it as soon as we knew the victim. But to deny us that to "increase the buzz"...and now I have to spend another 6 freaking months trying to avoid being spoiled. Shitty move, show runners. I'm hating you manipulative bastards right now. Feels like a fuck you to their fans, frankly.

BASTARDS. I can't believe they went there.

I hear you. I had to pop a Xanax 10 minutes in

Traffic overflow on this site. 1st time in an hour 15 min. the page would load. Having to hyperventilate alone!!! I can't stand this; I don't want any of them to die. :(

I've been dreading this episode and just wanting to get it over with. Avoiding spoilers, particularly about Negan, has been like walking through a minefield for months, and in the end pretty much an exercise in futility. Ugh. To eat up the time today I went to the movies with a friend. Then I realized how much she has in common with the sloths in Zootopia, because I wanted to get the heck home afterwards and she just kept talking and taking her time. I finally said I needed to get home so I could watch the Walking Dead, which turned into a ten-minute discussion of why don't I just record it and watch it later. I said, "Because I want to watch it live and the internet is going to blow up" and had to practically kick her out of the car. LOL! Back home just in the nick of time! Whew.