lmsweb

I think, and of course this is just my opinion since I'm not GRRM or D&D, that Bran wasn't really able to do anything about Dany attacking KL and burning it all down. He could have told Jon what she planned to do, but I don't think it would have mattered. Tyrion and Varys also told Jon that was what she was going to do and he just kept parroting "she's my Queen". He had to see it for himself, and then realize during his convo with her after that she was hell bent on a my way or the highway method of ruling. And even if he had managed to convince Jon, and Jon was able to stop her that time...who's to say the next time wouldn't have been Winterfell? If you think about it, being the 3ER would be kind of a terrible job. You'd have to be witness to all the atrocities, past, present and possibly future, that mankind can inflict on itself and others and not really be able to do anything about it. And I'm still not convinced that Bran's foresight is as powerful as his ability to visit the past. The most we saw of his foresight were very brief glimpses - like the 2 second shot of a dragon flying over KL. His visits into the past, that we saw, were much more clearly detailed because they had already happened and were unalterable. My fanwank is that Bran saw himself with Arya and Sansa at the meeting in KL. He may not have even realized why he was there until Tyrion nominated him.

This is actually one of my favourite scenes. Tyrion had never met the dragons before. Yet it seems they understand enough of what he's saying to not eat him.

Erm....Selmy has been dead since season 5.

Loved that OzzyMan review! Just noticed on my third watch through - Arya and Sansa both referred to Jon as their brother at the meeting of the Lords and Ladies. Clearly, they are going to keep it under wraps that he's a Targ, as is Tyrion. Varys and Dany are dead. Sam will never tell, and Bran won't. I don't think we ever had confirmation that anyone else knew? ALSO: I still need confirmation if that is supposed to Howland Reed between Sam and Edmure. It is driving me NUTS. (Yes I know, of all the things to take away from that last episode - this is going to bother me the most. Sigh)

That reminds me - I've seen a lot of posts saying Sansa can't have kids either. They made it pretty clear just before she escaped with Theon that Ramsay was being careful not to do anything to her that would prevent her with providing him with an heir in her conversation with Myranda: "Dying? Who said anything about dying? You can't die. Your father was Warden of the North, and Ramsay needs you. But I suppose he doesn't need all of you. Just the parts he needs to make his heir, until you've given him a boy or two and he's finished using them. Then, he's got incredible plans for those parts. So, shall we wait for him to come back, or should we begin now? You're leaving it to me? Good. Let's begin."

Phew, finally caught up on this thread. I'm not going to try and quote everyone, since there were numerous similar posts, but I want to comment on a few things here: Jon being "sentenced" to the NW - back in season 7, Tormund made the comment "I guess we're the Night's Watch now" when Jon asked him to take some of his wildlings north to the Wall to watch for the AotD, since there were basically no men left in the Watch. So being sentenced to the NW was essentially them sending Jon back to join the Wildlings anyway. Bran being a "boring storyteller" - I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Bran isn't a storyteller, per se. He IS the complete unabridged Encyclopedia Brittanica of Westeros history though. He will literally serve to be the cautionary reminder of all the horrors that those seeking power have inflicted on people over the centuries. I'm pretty sure Tyrion wasn't referring to Bran's ability to tell a rip roaring fireside story over some ale. Bran being able to circumvent all the terrible things that happened - no. We see this in almost every movie/TV/book where time traveling of a sort occurs. Bran is a witness to history, nothing more. Even Jon telling Arya and Sansa about being a Targ - Jon specifically looked at Bran for guidance on this and Bran told him "it's your choice". Attempting to change the course of history can ultimately lead to worse things happening. And Bran's future-seeing abilities, at least as demonstrated on the show, have involved glimpses of things, not long specific drawn out detailed scenes. Sansa - I'm going to address this here, although I've seen it brought up in so many episode threads before. I see people raging at how she told the Hound that everything she went through shaped her into who she is today. As a member of the #MeToo group - this is so dead on point. OF COURSE being raped or sexually abused is going to change you. For some people, it breaks them for a while. For others, they grow past it. Everyone deals with it differently but the bottom line is that you can't NOT be changed by it. I honest to God feel a little flash of rage every time I see someone gripe and bitch about the writer's using rape to forward a woman's storyline. I cannot emphasize this enough - the percentage of women who have had their stories "changed" in the real world because of this is staggering. Seeing a woman on screen overcome this and go on to become a strong, independent woman gets a fist pump from me every single time. Dany getting stabbed in the heart - well, Jon of all people would know the exact place and angle to stab the heart, so, I have no problems with how he did it. On a side note - the scene where Dany is addressing her crowd and the Dothraki are wheeling around and almost running into each other on horseback made me laugh. It looked like literally every single warm up arena at every horse show I've ever gone to. Especially barrel racing. I NEED TO KNOW IF THAT WAS HOWLAND REED SITTING BETWEEN SAM AND EDMURE. D&D better come online long enough to answer this.

On rewatch now - part of Dany's Hitler speech speaks of liberating people all over the world. "From Winterefell to Dorne, from Lannisport to Qarth, from the Summer Isles to the Jade Sea" Ummmm...liberating people in Winterfell from what? They don't have slavery there. Nor in Lannisport. Slavery is outlawed in the Seven Kingdoms. I can picture Sansa giving Jon a snarky "I told you so" side eye if she'd been there to hear it. Edit to add: Is that Howland Reed sitting between Bran and Edmure at the little post BBQ sit down?

Going to post my thoughts now because I'm already cringing knowing that the majority of this thread is going to be people shitting on the episode. It wasn't perfect. It felt rushed, much as the whole season has. Visually, it was stunning, as it has been all season. The actors still knocked it out of the park, for the most part. But there was no way this ending was going to satisfy most people. Everyone has, in their own mind, a version of this ending that didn't get shown, which means most people will be disappointed by it. Try not to let that take away from the rest of the series and the hard work the cast and everyone involved has put into it. Yes, that includes D&D. We've had years of fabulous TV entertainment thanks to them. I'm not willing to crucify them because the last season didn't go how everyone wanted it to. Now, as to the episode itself - I'm not unhappy with where everyone ended up and how it went down. I do think Jon being a Targ amounted to nothing, but then, so did the Night King and we were all certain that was going to be the big point of the series. Turns out in the end it boils down to the realities of everyday living and ruling - which actually feels authentic and very GRRM. I choked up over Arya and Jon. I choked up over Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei and his scene with Jon was fabulous as well. Brienne being Lady Commander of the Kingsguard? Perfect. As was seeing Ser Podrick as a Kingsguard as well. Jon quoting Aemon Targaryeon. Tormund waiting at the Wall for Jon. Lots of good little moments. Dany going full on Heil Hitler was actually a little terrifying. I was disappointed that Grey Worm was still apparently in Berserker mode. I have a lingering question in my mind about Drogon burning down the throne - they've made it clear before the dragons are actually quite intelligent. Yet he didn't eat Jon (or burn him). He just carted Dany off and that was it. Overall - not the finale many wanted. But I refuse to let it ruin the whole series for me. I'll miss seeing what happens with Arya next, and who gets made the new Master of Whispers. And does Gilly have a boy or a girl, and what do they name her? If a show has ended and left me still interested in it's character's futures, then it's done what it's supposed to do, IMHO.

I feel like this whole thread is going to be split down the middle with those who hated it and those who didn't. I do want to point out though that Dany gained both the Unsullied and the Dothraki by fire and blood. She reneged on her deal with the slaver who sold her the Unsullied and had him burned and the other slavers killed by her new Unsullied army. Whether you agree or not that slavery=bad, it was an acceptable practice in that area and she blew shit up to get her army. Same goes for the Dothraki - yes, I can hear you saying "but the Khals were a bunch of misogynistic assholes who wanted to lock her up with the other widows" but AGAIN - acceptable practice for that group of people. How did she change it and gain all the Khalasars? Fire and blood. She wanted to break the wheel. She just decided to take a whole city with it, though. Added: I've seen several people refer to Jon as a Targ. John is Targ/Stark, and looks nothing like a Targ, at that. Dany is Targ/Targ = both her parents were Targs, and we've seen what brother/sister offspring can result in - Exhibit A - Joffrey. Exhibit B - Viserys. Exhibit C - Dany.

Also: I'm on rewatch now. That scene of Arya and the Hound marching into the city is awesome. It's perfectly timed with the music. And I'm also wondering how tired Maisie's little legs were after probably having to do like 30 takes.

Going to post this before I read too many of the other posts in this thread....but, I didn't hate this episode. I did feel there was some disjointed jumping around, but I don't get why everyone is saying they did a 180 on Dany. The anvils have been dropping for YEARS about how mad the Targs were, and we've seen her go kind of bat shitty already in earlier seasons. As soon as Jon rejected her Auntie love, she was done. She knows she'll never have the 7 Kingdoms out of love - even if she had honoured the surrender. So she went the fear route. And there was no messing around tonight either, Drogon must have gotten a +50 speed buff at some point in the last week. I choked up over Arya and the Hound. That was the highlight of the episode for me. Jamie and Cersei - sigh. Not the ending I wanted for them, but kudos to the actors, especially Lena, for knocking that last scene out of the park. All that remains to be seen is if both Jon and Dany die in the final episode. My money is on both. I think the writers are doing the best they can to tie up everything in a shortened season and give all the fans closure on their various favourite characters. Will this episode stand out as one of my favourites? Probably not (although, not gonna lie, watching Drogon BURN IT ALL was fun). Added: the one person I DID feel had some character assassination going on was Grey Worm. Yes, he loved Missandei. Yes, he's loyal to his Queen. But his random berserker behaviour just seemed a little over the top to me. Barriston Selmy would be rolling in his grave.

Almost forgot - those wondering about a mole? Qyburn has already proven his little birds are just as if not more effective than Varys's were. I don't think one of the main characters is a mole, I think it's just the same secret spy service they've been using for the entire series.

I want Cersei's wardrobe. And Sansa's. I have a feeling Arya is not headed to KL to kill Cersei. I think she has a new target now. She seemed resigned to not returning to Winterfell when she left with the Hound. And I'm not sure that is because she plans on running off with Gendry at the end of the show. She did a LOT of face watching in that war council scene - most of it directed at Daeny. And we all know how good she is at the Game of Faces. While I do feel Sansa's....snarkiness, is over the top at times, in theory, she is not wrong in her views. Resting the troops was reasonable (never mind giving one of the two dragons you have left a little time to heal the gaping holes in his wings), as was her response of checking with the officers. Last time I checked, some of those troops still left are Dany's - there were still some Dothraki and Unsullied left over. Loved the interaction with Sansa and Tyrion. I don't think she intended to blurt out the news about Jon. It was when she realized that even Tyrion is afraid of Dany that she made the decision. She is still loyal to Jon. Rhagel dying killed me. Worse than most of the deaths last week. I did NOT see that coming at all. We are now down to one dragon facing down a shit ton of ballistics that are clearly very effective. I predict Drogon to bite it before the end. Glad that Ghost got to head north for some well deserved retirement. And as much as I see people complaining about Jon's interaction with Ghost, Ghost has interacted with or fought beside most of the main characters over the last few seasons. I am going fan wank that he and Tormund will have many adventures in the North for years to come.

They didn't do any of that because that wasn't King's Landing. That was Dragonstone.

Oh that's right!! Morgan was first season. I think we forget because he disappeared for a while.

You forgot The Hat.

And now I'm laughing watching the way Maggie's mouth moves when she gets all shouty.

The walkers rolling down the hill is the funniest shit I've seen in ages.

I really hope Cersei got all that poisoned lipstick off before going straight to Jaime and throwing herself at him. On second thought, I'm starting to hope she didn't. I must be in the minority. The meeting and chemistry with Dany and Jon went exactly as I expected and hoped it would. Dany goes to default High Bitch mode when she feels vulnerable or insecure about something. I don't think it's necessarily arrogance, I think it's her default. Jon has been shown time and time again to be totally uncomfortable with being King in the North. I like their first meeting. I loved the second meeting. I got choked up before we even saw if was Bran or Arya at the gate. I just knew a reunion was coming. Great episode overall.

I don't think that Ice Giant was Wun Wun. Wun Wun died at Winterfell. However, did they burn the body of the other giant that died at the Wall? I can't remember now. And I'm sure there are other Giants who have died North of the wall over the years. Other person missing was Melisande.

I have rewound and watched that cold open 5 times now. Even though I knew what was going to happen, I barely breathed through it. That was just plain awesome to watch. And SO satisfying. I also think we can lay to rest any worries that Arya is totally off the walls crazy psycho. She is cold and calculating but I don't think she's lost all her humanity. Unless next episode we find out she murderballed Ed Sheeran in his sleep, then I may have to reassess that again. That scene with the Hound burying the farmer and his daughter broke my heart. Sam blah blah blah this is where dragonglass is we have to tell Jon blah blah blah. Ice giant which means we'll get an Ice dragon this season. Sansa, while I appreciate her wanting to express her opinions, was out of line. And also short-sighted. Lady Mormont continues to be the daughter I want to adopt someday. They did a FABULOUS JOB of touching on pretty much every character and storyline in the first hour. Except for Gendry. Who is apparently still row, row, rowing his boat to shore somewhere.

One more thing I wanted to add that would have added layers to the Show Jane - book Jane is much more fleshed out. For example, one of the things in the book she does, that the other ladies notice, is chew gum. Constantly. Turns out that when Perry was raping her, he told her that her breath stinks. I believe he said something about her weight too, which led to an eating disorder. (I think this is shown somewhat by Jane's non-stop running). I really liked Book Jane, and I found it hard to like Show Jane the same way until the last few episodes. And YES! Laparu is right, I loved that part too. Ed was the only one of the few men to know what actually happened. Also, I think it was Renata in the book who called 911 and very coolly handled the whole thing.

Yes, and in the book, this all happened with a few men getting into a fight and bursting out onto the balconey they were one (as opposed to the women being alone with Perry way off from the party). In fact, I found the whole Greek Chorus and sniping in that part of the book hysterical, because there was a big to do over the fact that 1) the catering truck never arrived and everyone was starving to the point of stealing chips and 2) the teachers who mixed the drinks/punch apparently couldn't do basic math and the drinks were like 4 times stronger than they should have been. Basically, mostly everyone was shit faced by the time The Event happened.

I'm going to disagree here because I think the way it was shot was to show that 5 women would have different viewpoints of how it happened. It was chaotic and the editing showed that, because it was clearly something that happened unexpectedly. I'm on re-watch too and wow but AS is tall. I know he's 6'4, but when he's walking up the red carpet looking for Celeste he towered over EVERYONE. Made him look even more menacing.

Posting this here so I don't get my hand whacked again for saying the word "book" in the episode thread. In the book, it goes into Bonnie's background where her Mother used to get beaten regularly by her Dad, to the point where Bonnie hid under the bed at one point. She has PTSD from her childhood, hence why she now tries to lead a life of peace and zen. Also in the book, the end happened differently, with Maddy and Jane I think both ending up with broken bones, but the end result is still the same. The Joseph and Maddy line never happened in the book. I'm kind of irritated it happened in the show, since it didn't serve anything other than to show Maddy isn't prefect. And for those wondering what happened with Jane and Ziggy after - Celeste set up a trust fund for Ziggy, on par with the twins, so he would have all the same advantages as the twins. Most of what happened in the book played out in the show, with just some details changed, but the storylines stayed the same. OH! Except in the book, Abby DOES launch her website and gets an anonymous email from a man offering her $100,000 to pull the site down and he would donate it to the charity (Amnesty International, I believe). The "man" who donates it is actually Celeste, and she does it with Perry's money before he has his fatal fall. OH! Also, Saxon Banks was actually Perry's cousin, and Perry used his name. And in the book, although the women all cover up for Bonnie, she ultimately goes to the police with the truth, gets involuntary manslaughter and does like 200 hours of community service. And Celeste becomes a spokeperson of sorts for domestic abuse victims.