Partly

I loved the idea of the ABC show since it was (sort of) a continuation of Magnum. I'm disappointed that it didn't get a showing -- although, I liked the idea of Leverage a lot more than the actual show, so there's that. I'm willing to give this new reboot a chance (if it gets picked up). The concept is a sound one, even if it has a lot to live up to. Magnum broke a lot of ground in the 80s, being one of the first fictional works that showed Vietnam vets in a positive light. It will be interesting to see if they keep the voice-overs, Magnum's "little voice", the (still unique) self-depreciating humor surrounding the main character, and all those little touches that made the show so good. As for other Lenkow shows, I didn't watch Haiwii 5-0 past the first season, however, I do enjoy the MacGyver reboot. I also liked CSI:NY and 24, and Lenkov worked on both of those. A lot will depend on the actors. Tom Selleck really grew into the role and had that boyish charm that worked with the humor and, yet, he could pull off the seriousness that colored a lot of the episodes. Guggenheim wrote the movie Miracle and episodes for Parenthood, so there is some skill there.

I think it's more the idea that she was interested rather than looking for a "move in and settle down" relationship. I think a long-distance, meet-up-in-foreign-lands, flirt-over-the-phone, leave-cute-packages relationship would be fun to watch and fit her character. she lost someone that she obviously loved deeply, something light and fun will probably go a lot further to healing her than anything else.

But this is true of the original BAU as well. And, quite frankly, true of every amateur detective, private eye and TV lawyer that ever were written. In fact, unless there is an overreaching character or story arc that needs to have some incompetency with or failure of the IRT in order to play out, such a storyline would be pointless. There needs to be a underlying reason in order to have the IRT go with they're not needed. It's just the underlying conceit of the show -- in fact, it's the underlying conceit of every TV show. The main characters have to be the heroes.

My unpopular opinion: I think the whole "Dean and Sam were fated since the beginning of time to be the vessels for Michael and Lucifer" is one giant angel retcon. I don't think that Heaven or Hell cared a whit about the Winchesters until after Sam survived Azezel's tests and Dean broke the first seal in Hell. That's when they popped up on everyone's radar and suddenly the angels and demons were willing to move heaven and hell to make sure the Winchesters became the chosen ones and, in fact, they made sure that the Winchesters were always the chosen ones. The angels (and Lucifer) forced their mythology onto Dean and Sam -- manipulating people, circumstances, and history as needed. It wasn't even a conscious choice, once they saw the Winchesters as the chosen, they became the chosen. It was right. It was destined. Now I realize this is just my own private head-cannon, but I like it.

And this where I view the story differently: I don't see the whole arc being about Dean leading up to being a vessel and then the writers dumping the story line -- I see the story line as Dean's fight against the "fate" of being a vessel. To me, that is the story line that has all the emotional and character arcs in it: From Dean's first saying no to the third act arc of his losing faith and being ready to say yes, to his rediscovering his courage and going back to saying no. In my mind, Dean was never supposed to say yes. He is always about free will and not succumbing to all the pressure being put on him to just give up. I know that there are a lot of fans who see Dean's denial as a cheat of some sort, but I see it as a fulfillment of his character. In my view of the character, it would have been a cheat to have him become Michael's vessel.

But he was willing to die to save Sam (and in turn, save the entire world). Isn't that doing something? The willingness to take the bullet, to stand true to who you are and what you believe despite the extremely low chance of winning and the extremely high chance of dying IS an action. An action that, in real life, has changed the world many times. I love the fact that the show allows both Dean and Sam to be heroic in more than one way. My unpopular opinion.

One of the things that I really loved about this episode was that Lily's backstory mirrored almost every hunter's backstory ever: Normal person encounters the Supernatural being who terrorizes them/kills their loved one(s), driving that person to become a hunter in order to get revenge or protect others. In many ways, angels are just another supernatural menace to humans in the Supernatural universe. It really explains the fear angels have of Nephilim -- after all, a Nephilim would be a being whose power would rival that of angels, but whose allegiance could be to humans. In many ways, angels are at the top of the supernatural food chain; a Nephilim would change all that. For that matter, so did human/demon Jesse Turner. Cas said he could vanquish all the angels in Heaven with a single word. While that much power could be used against humanity, I think the average angel is motivated by self-interest much more than concern for humanity. I also thought it was interesting how often it was stressed that Lily wasn't a threat to humans. Although most hunters are driven by revenge, protecting humans from the supernatural is the number one job of hunters. Hunters just don't kill humans -- not matter how evil they may be. The hunters didn't kill Bucky even after they found out what he did to Asa. Look at how horrified everyone was when Dean, under the influence of the MoC, killed Randy and the lowlifes that had taken Claire -- the thought that he may not have killed them in self-defense was horrifying, no matter how richly they may have deserved to die. After all, if they would have been supernatural creatures, there would have been no question that Dean should have killed them. But hunters don't kill people. Which means that once the actions of the BMoLs comes to light, there's no way anyone will work with them. While the killing of all supernatural creatures, no matter what could possibly (perhaps) justified, there's no way American hunters are going to stand by and let them kill humans.

Except... the girl wasn't a Nephilim, she was human. As Lily said, "I had my daughter long before I set eyes on an angel". Ishim killed the daughter to punish/torture the mother.

Bob Lee is a sniper, he long ago came to terms with killing people, Memphis has not. She may never see that as an option. Bob Lee is working from a war footing, he's always had a chain of command where, in the end, killing people was viable. Right now, he's on war footing again and killing people is still viable. Memphis is still law enforcement and killing isn't ever a good choice. Their basic philosophies are at odds -- thus makes for great storytelling on many levels.

I find it interesting that Bob Lee's "death" isn't a continuing ploy. His wife and daughter and Nadine knew at the end of episode where he first set it up. The end of this episode all the bad guys know and so does Bob Lee's sister-in-law. From the looks of the preview, even more people are going to know Bob Lee isn't dead. Of course, everyone who knows seems to have a vested interest in keeping that information secret, so Bob Lee should be able to buy things without getting the cops called on him all the time. I really think that having Isaac kill the mother was a serious mistake. Meachum said that if Isaac wouldn't do it they could always send in Payne -- which seems like it would have been infinitely better. Isaac strangles her and buries her body (and his DNA) in a shallow grave? Yeah, no way that's not going to be an issue later. Payne definitely the guy you want on clean-up duty -- Memphis would have been a suicide if not for Bob Lee. And once again we see that while Bob Lee is the best sniper ever but although he may be damn good at hand-to-hand, he's still outmatched by a lot of the people after him. I seem to be in the minority, in that I really was looking forward to the the flashbacks in this episode. And I am really hoping that we get some more of them. Not so much for Bob Lee, but for Isaac and for the rest of the conspiracy. They did a great job of working the flashbacks into the episode while keeping the current storyline going, so they can do it. There's quite a few balls in the air right now and I'm excited to see how they handle them all.

I like Flynn. I enjoy his brand of crazy -- even though I'm with Ezekiel in being happy to see him be wrong (if that won't mean the end of the world). I enjoy the show without him, but that's only because I also really like the other characters just as much as I do Flynn. It's a pleasure to watch a show where I like all the characters. It doesn't matter who they feature, I love to watch them all.

I love the fact that when Bob wins, everyone wins!

I'm really liking the show, it's really jelling in these last two episodes. I love his wife. She's strong, passionate, knows her husband and she trusts in him. She knows who he is and doesn't shy away from that. That's incredibly rare on television -- well, in any fiction, to be honest. She's very loyal to Bob Lee, but she doesn't put her loyalty to him over the immediate safety of her family. I also like the fact that she doesn't understand the importance of Musa Qala. I also love Memphis. She's cool under pressure but not overly confident. She's sticks with the FBI until the preponderance of the evidence says not to -- or at least until she meets Bob Lee in person and it's gets harder to ignore all the little bits that don't add up. And she's going to have to watch her back because Isaac certainly knows that Bob Lee isn't dead, he if he suspects that she It's rare for a show to have two female characters I like. I think it would completely undermine Bob Lee's character if he would hook up with Memphis, he clearly loves his wife and his little girl. I'm really hoping this show is above such a cheap trope. I also love that Bob Lee is good -- very good -- at what he's doing but that he's not perfect. It was the guy at the VA who thought of changing the ID number on Bob Lee's record. Plus, while it's clear that he has a lot of personal trust with the people he goes to for help, they don't all just turn a blind eye to what is going on. It took a lot for the VA guy to help him and then you could see that it was a hard decision. I'm really looking forward to the next episode. I'm hoping that it will give insight into Isaac's motives for picking Bob Lee as the fall guy. Isaac was setting Bob Lee up to die and that isn't an easy thing to do to someone you know, harder even when that person saved your life. There has to be a personal reason for doing that. Especially considering how dangerous Bob Lee is.

Ah, I misunderstood what you were going for. I absolutely agree with this. The trick is that she has to both grieve for the children she lost and rejoice that she got them back at the same time. That's got to be hard. The boys want to deal with the happiness of having her back but Mary is decades behind on the whole grieving process, and that's a big disconnect. They are thrilled and ecstatic and want to move forward, while she's sad and still needs to deal with the past . I'm really pleased that the show is making an effort to acknowledge that.

Because everyone loves talking about sensitive issues with their mother? And in many ways, Mary is a stranger. Worse, she's a stranger that carries with her all the emotional hurt of growing up motherless and the unrealistic expectation that everything will be right if only Mary can be their Mom again. Wouldn't the emotional weight of wanting to be loved by your mother make sharing true feelings that much harder? It would be psychologically and emotionally wrong to have Mary be unaffected by what has happened; for her to be able to just walk into this life and deal. Even beyond that, it would be poor writing to have her just be a prop to soothe Dean and Sam and make everything better. I want Mary to be an actual, complex character. Right now I see great possibilities for all the characters. As much as I want to see Dean happy, I don't want someone to come in and make him happy, he needs to work through this, face the emotions and deal with them. The same goes for Sam. And for Mary. This whole story arc has me thinking about the adage "Put your oxygen mask on first" (From flying when the flight attendant instructs you to put your oxygen mask on first, before helping others.) You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. That's what Mary is doing right now. And since it's the one thing that Dean never does, it's easy to hate Mary for doing it.

Added comment, because this episode did a delightful job in paralleling emotional notes: When Mary said that she was following John's journal to "catch up on what I missed" Dean insists that she could have just asked them. Yet in the beginning of the episode we were shown just how bad an idea that is. As the twins said when Elvis asked Sam about Lucifer "Dude, you just don't ask someone about something that messed up". "Messed up" fits most of what happened to the boys. How exactly would any conversation go with Dean or Sam? Dean hit the highlights of his past meeting with Mary to fill her in on the basics of what happened, but it was Sam who gave her John's journal. I think that's important. I'm sure that Dean's version of their journey would be different than Sam's and I'm not sure that either version would be what Mary really needs to hear. Mary needs to learn what the world is like now on her own and she needs to come to terms with it. But did Mary really lose her children? When she died her family lost her but she didn't lose anything. She went to heaven and she got to live in her perfect moment with her children and husband. A perfect moment without loss, an eternity of togetherness. It's only now that's she alive again that she realizes everything she's lost. It's only now that she's back that she's lost her children -- her babies -- but she can't really mourn them because here are these two giant strangers who they have become. Meanwhile, she's also lost her husband, her life, everything she ever knew. I think it would be unhealthy for her to latch onto being "mommy" to Dean and Sam without fully understanding the enormity of what has happened.

But do they *really* know about the resurrections? I mean, do they know that Dean (and Sam) actually DIED or is it more along the lines of killing 4 Windigos in one night? The story is that Asa did that, but we don't know if it's true or not. From the look on Dean's face, I think he'd rather no one knew about most of the things that he's done. Dean always assumes people will think the worst of him. Or rather, Dean is always afraid that if people knew the truth about him -- the things he does, the things he's DONE, what he really likes -- they will view him as unworthy. It's why he doesn't cop to liking Chick Flicks (or Japanese animated erotica). It's the primary reason he is sure that Mary won't stay. Sure, he's hurt, but mostly he's afraid. Absolutely. It's still just the two boys. Mary is too new to be a major priority -- and she will never take the position before Sam in Dean's mind. She can't. She's been gone too long. I did like that Dean didn't focus on Sam when talking to BIllie, though. It was "Hunters are dying in there". It's a nice nod to the fact that as focused as Dean is on Sam, he really needs to save everyone. While I'm sure it was for drama, it didn't bother me as much as it did others. I've always thought that Dean and Sam's hunting experiences are a lot more intense than most others and (despite how often the boys run into it) I don't think possession is that common. It's also obvious that hunters don't share knowledge all that often. While I would love to see a "Hunter Convention" -- I envision this would be like a large hunting expo or, even better, something similar to a weekend trapping rendezvous -- I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. Once the Roadhouse was gone, there didn't seem to be another "hunter's bar" popping up anywhere and even though Garth tried to fill Bobby's shoes, there isn't any real resource for hunting information. More than this was a funeral. While Asa was a hunter, it was held in the house of his mother who hated hunting. I'm sure most left their hunting gear outside out of respect. Asa may have had stuff stashed, but his mom wouldn't have known about it. Mary did go and get the Angel blade, so there may have been more stuff in his room. Although I did think it was odd that no one pointed out that, even with the water off, the toilets would still be full of water. It's always interesting to see what little nitpicks bother different people. Several people up-thread mentioned the "christo" trick to ID demons. I thought that it was established that not all demons reacted to that. Something about the stronger demons could keep from being revealed. That could be headcannon, tho.

I've never been pulled over for inspection, but they always make me open my trunk. Well, I don't have a trunk on my car, but they make me open the back hatch so they can look inside. I haven't crossed the border into Canada for a couple years though, maybe they don't do that anymore? My husband, adult daughter and I just traveled in and out of Canada this summer. We live in Wisconsin and drove to Maine for vacation, crossed the border 6 different times. They looked at our passports and asked us questions (questions that become slightly more involved the more often we crossed the borders) but they never asked to search our car at any point. That was at both metropolitan/busy crossings and the two lane road through the mountains. If they had a good reason to go north (and a funeral is a good one), had a realistic looking passport and didn't look like trouble (traveling with law enforcement would seriously help reduce the risk factor), they should have been fine.

Posting this after I managed to watch it, without reading any posts already up. I apologize if I cover things that have already been said, but once I read the posts, they get in my head and I end up not posting my initial thoughts! Fair warning—I loved the episode and I am growing quite fond of Mary. I like learning more things about Mary. I find it interesting that Mary doesn’t shy away from giving people the “Truth is out there” speech. And while she may have wanted John to get a “family” car, it’s clear that she prefers muscle cars. I’d attribute her instructions to John about the type of care to get to be more of a “I’m out of hunting so I’m going to act like a homemaker” than an actual desire for a different type of car. But then, since she already showed that she didn’t/doesn’t cook, she obviously didn’t try *too* hard to paint herself at a merry housewife. I do like the kid’s line “But if you retire who will save people like me”? That is, of course, one of Dean’s driving reasons to keep hunting: To save people. I’m glad it gives Mary pause. And to prove that sublimation must be an inherited trait, she immediately channels that guilt into more motherly behavior. Love the montage of how all hunters become hunters, what their lives are like, how much they love saving people, and how they inevitably end up. Love that Dean is still all about killing Hitler and Jody is all “Thank you?”. Because what else can you say to that? And we totally know that Dean is a “rom com chick”. I also love how Sam goes with the whole “animated Japanese erotica” line. It pleases me that Sam knows Dean loves chick flicks but also knows that it’s not something to use as a “tease Dean” type thing. Gotta love brothers. Also totally love that Dean immediately offers to go with and Sam coves up with a reason to go that has nothing to do with Jody’s obvious distress. Dean’s “You would be doing us a favor” line clearly demonstrates that he knows how important it is not to have people think that you are doing something out of pity. Sidebar: I find it interesting that John always warned the boys away from non-work hunter gatherings. Love how famous the Winchesters are — the damn well ought to be! I also love how nervous Dean looks when Bucky says “you should hear what they say about you” — almost as panicked as Sam is when Elvis asked him about Lucifer. At least the siblings point out how messed up that is. Every time Dean says “We’re not in the “live till you’re 90 die in your sleep business’”, I always think that the way the Universe messes with the Winchesters, Dean will probably live till 90 and die in his sleep. That’s how I’d end it, at least. Jody continues to rock. Just when I think she can’t be more awesome, she is. Great reaction to Mary’s return. She’s also the perfect character to be a touchstone to all sides of this episode: She knows what it’s like to lose someone you love, to lose a child, to have people come back and not have it turn out. More than that, she knows how to say what needs to be said, without demanding a deep emotional talk at that moment. Also great: That Sam is the intermediary between Mary and Dean — echoing the role that Dean played between John and Sam. Love parallels like that in writing. I also think it’s interesting that Sam believes (or want’s to believe) that it’s possible to live this life and not have it kill you. The team exorcism was a great touch. Also enjoyed fact that Jael had to end up in Jody in order to be safe enough to be so sadistically evil. Although he didn’t account for the fact that Mary was more than willing to kill Jody because “We kill demons”. It’s nice to see that Mary isn’t completely up-to-date on everything in the supernatural world. “They’re good men. The best I’ve ever met.” Truer words never spoken. I’m not sure how I feel about Billie. I do appreciate that she doesn’t see dying as anything to worry about. She’s a Reaper, after all, death is just a transition. She also says she’s a big believer in “What dies, stay’s dead. Law’s of the Universe.” She just want’s to balance the scales and the Winchesters just won’t help her do that. I think it’s interesting that when Mary is considering going with Billie, it’s the only time we’ve seen Sam truly upset and worried about Mary. It makes sense. After all, Sam was the one who told Death that he would be willing to die if it meant that no one else would be hurt by his actions. And Mary was very clear that she felt that she brought nothing be pain to those around her. Sam was afraid that Mary would agree to the very deal he was going to agree to. Dean, who never would agree to that deal, had no fear that Mary would. POV is everything. I very much would like to know what it was that Asa wrote to Mary on all those post cards. I also think that Mary (very mysterious, very strong, very attractive Mary) who rode in and saved him and then disappeared, wasn’t only responsible for starting him on the road to be a hunter, but was probably the reason he never “settled down” with anyone. That would be a hell of a crush.

I think the weirdness factor is that we (well, me at least) like to have Dean the action hero and him not being there when the mother was stopped left him out of that role. It's an unusual choice for the show that likes to show case Action!Dean While I usually greatly miss Action!Dean when he's not there, what I really liked in this episode was how they showcased the less popular Competent!Dean. I mean here you meet Beth. Obvious suspect. Not only did she get the job, but she's a Wicca, which gives her means. An evil witch is a good suspect and with Dean not being overly fond of witches he's more than willing to end her. However, what really puts the nail in her coffin is her statement of "sometimes what's best for a family is to split them up." That would make Dean willing to end her even without the witch part. What I love is that Dean goes there to kill her (hell, he's got the gun out and everything) but he talks and listens and adjusts his thinking. I love that about Dean. I know that a lot of people (most annoyingly Sam) feel that Dean is trigger happy, but that's not true and I'm glad to see that shown on screen.

Okay I get it this is definitely a YMMV type moment. It didn't bother me that Dean wasn't there right away and it was kinda nice to see Sam not needing to be rescued. I will cop to being a much less critical viewer than most.

Really didn't mean to be insulting, here, I'm just confused. How is this a fanwank? I understood that a fanwank is explaining something that isn't possible or is a plot hole, but that isn't the case here. It's not a fanwank, it's reality.

If you know how long it takes to travel rural areas, why would you need an explanation?

That's the way it looked to me. In fact, there was light differences between the time when Sam is hiding in the trees watching them with the horses, to the longer shadows of when the brother is watching his mother torture Magna to the darkness of when Sam over hears the father and brother talk about Magna. It's logical, as you can't very well skulk about a farm in daylight. Dean does the same thing, waiting until evening to go to see Beth. Dean may be keen on killing her, but he's going in to see her when there are witnesses around. He's a professional. Same way that he makes sure she's guilty, rather than just walking in and shooting her. They could have shown them killing the time, I suppose, but the going from light to dark conveyed that to me. In defense of all of us who live in sparsely populated rural areas - it can take a long time to get from one place to another. CPS is a county organization and Mason City is in Cerro Gordo County, Iowa. Cerro Gordo County is 675 square miles with Mason City toward the top center of the county. Even with the straight roads the Iowa has (as opposed to the winding roads of Wisconsin) it can take a good 45 minutes to an hour to get to more rural places just within the county -- and that's not counting the added time of getting from the nearest road to the farm house. Of course, that's my personal experience from living in those types of areas, I understand that people who never deal with rural, county roads don't have that background. I'm often amused at the comments I get when "city folk" visit and we drive 30 minutes though backroads to get to our favorite eating place!

I don't ship -- except for Michael and Fi. Michael and Fi. Fi and Michael. They are so perfect for each other.