Crazy8

The 'forever' part of that gave me chills. One day this show will be used to torture people. Reading between the lines, it does seem like it's all about the money. The only silver lining is that there's bound to be some juicy gossip along the way, particularly as Necar Zadegan is a much better actress than Lisa Edelstein and it already seemed like they were starting to sideline Abby's character a little. There could be some SATC drama behind the scenes here. I'm still kind of speechless at the renewal. Of all the things NBCU could have thrown money at, they throw it at something that reinforces a sh*t load of sexist stereotypes and market it as something for intelligent women. I am amused Paul Adelstein has jumped ship. His character was crap, but I doubt he'll be the last to go.

I'm pretty surprised too, but it looks like they want it to run long enough for it to go into syndication so they can get the money back they ploughed into it. I DREAD to think how bad this show will be by Season 5. It was at the 'scraping the barrel for storylines' stage about mid-way through Season 1. I suppose it's good news for the actresses in terms of job security, but who'd want to be stuck on something this terrible for at least another 3 years?

Am I the only one who thought they might have Tina and Brett sleep together at some point after the end of this episode? Hope I'm wrong, because Season 2 has been even better than Season 1 so far. That'd be like setting off a nuclear bomb right in the middle of everybody's intertwined relationships. I don't hate Brett like other people seem to. He just hasn't had the real passion to focus on that Michelle had with the charter school up until he and Alex decided to think about staging the play they were working on when they were kids. I also think his involvement in the childcare situation took place off-screen mostly. At least that's what it sounded like. In many ways his storyline is running parallel to Tina's, in that they've only just realised what it is they want to do, and who they want to be.

I just read that Bravo are holding back on making a decision on this for a couple of months, which obviously means they're losing confidence in it. I know it has its fans, but if a show doesn't build on its audience from the first year, even though you threw even more money at it, then you can bet your ass it'll do worse still for a third season! There's no way GG2D is going to do for Bravo what Breaking Bad did for AMC. None of the major reviewers are paying it any attention. It's not winning any awards. It's losing loads of viewers from its decent lead-in. It's not even getting panned, it's just invisible. I'm damn sure they can find something way better from all the Pilot scripts that are floating around out there! Hell, I'm not even sure it's fair to keep the actors attached to this show, although I'd be happy to only see some of them (including Edelstein) in small parts in the future.

Ray is literally the only reason I watch the show now. The only other character I have any time for is Fran. It's weird because as a woman I can't identify with any of the female characters anymore.

God, I love this show! Every single character is so messed up, but I can't bring myself to hate a single one of them. It's like the 'Anti-Girls' for me. Alex's initial reaction to Tina's drunken crash said everything we needed to know, even though she did behave like a complete idiot during the party. Brett's vomit tsunami should also be a lesson to us all about having those deep and meaningful conversations when we're drunk.

This is probably being storyboarded by the writers right now for next season. I saw someone describe this show as feminist once and I wondered WTF they'd been smoking.

Out of curiosity I checked the finale out after pretty much ignoring it for most of the season and a few things occurred to me. The writing has gotten worse since I last watched, and the acting seems so... I don't know... maybe strained is the right word??? I said this a long time ago, but Edelstein is just not a lead. I feel bad for saying it because she seems nice enough, but it's like she sucks the air out of the room every time she enters a scene. I don't know if she's trying too hard or what, but it's weird and really stuck out to me even more after not watching for a while. I've had a look at the ratings and it was only the 44th most popular cable original on TV last night. For its season finale. I just don't understand the justification for keeping it on the air if Bravo do renew it for a third season when it regularly loses over a million viewers from its RHOBH lead-in. I get why the channel want to get into scripted, but this show is not the hit they wanted it to be and frankly it insults the intelligence of its target audience. It's hard to even hate-watch. They need to do better.

There's no way in hell that they're going to bring back Old Doctors for more than specials. It completely misses the point of what the show is, and its ability to reinvent itself. Half the time they have entertainment reporters who never watch what they're writing about. Really hope Capaldi doesn't leave with Moffat, but I suspect he probably will. Clara did stay at least one season too long, and I'd love to see what he's capable of bouncing off another actor. He was great alongside Alex Kingston during the Christmas Special.

You're probably right. My gut feeling about this is that they're ploughing all their money into the adaptation of the Pullman books and they want it to take DW's normal slot next year, because they're planning on slowly winding down production on the show. They nearly let it go after RTD and Tennant left. Two big, family-orientated fantasy shows is a lot for them, especially as their budgets have been slashed. Regardless of how I feel about Chibnall, and I'm really not over the moon about him getting the job, I don't think they intend to keep the show on much longer anyway. They're just waiting for something to replace it.

I think the only one I dreaded more was Gatiss. I will give Chibnall the benefit of the doubt, but I genuinely think this run of the show will be over by about 2020 now. Of course it'll be rebooted by 2025, but that's not the point.

Yeah, I'm not thrilled either. They had an opportunity to bring in fresh blood and they settled for Chibnall, who's at best a pretty pedestrian choice.

It's more of a case of the BBC not wanting to put the show up against big sporting events like the Olympics, which is really sensible. They didn't do it justice in the scheduling at all last year and as a consequence the ratings went down. I think they're gearing up to have Doctor Who going back to the Spring so they can have His Dark Materials take over in the Summer/Autumn. Can't say I'm too thrilled with Chibnall taking over. His Doctor Who eps were ok, but I never took to Torchwood at all. Broadchurch bored me to tears as well. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I wish they'd been a bit more bold in their choice.

I never was one for the idea of having River as a full-time companion. You can have too much of a good thing. I'm expecting something big for when Moffat leaves though and that'll probably include returning characters. I'll be surprised if that doesn't include River in some way, shape or form. No idea if there'll be a Library fix-it, but let's face it, he can't help himself when it comes to her. Personally, I'm fine with that, as great an ending for her as this episode was. My friend had exactly the same problem with the last 2 seasons. Didn't gel with Capaldi at all, and then realised that the problem was actually Clara after this Christmas Special aired.

My gut feeling is that there might even be a long hiatus that lasts a few years after Moffat goes. There's a lot of change going on at the BBC at the moment and it's bound to signal more budget constraints, in spite of this being a flagship show. Frankly, whoever takes it on next is either going to have to have nerves of steel, or they're being completely naive. Either way, I'm convinced that if they employ an American showrunner that'll be the final nail in the coffin. Oh I never thought he was aiming for naturalism. That's not what I meant to say. For the World they inhabit, I think Moffat nails the character's voices, but like you said, it's a matter of personal taste. I think his 'style' is down to his sitcom background anyway. Personally, I thought the biggest problem with Series 9 was the over-reliance on two-parters. This Christmas Special demonstrated how much tighter a storyline can be if it's not stretched out unnecessarily over two episodes. Glad to hear they're not going there again in Series 10.

*Sighs* I still love Moffat. I know there are plot holes a mile wide here and there, but I turned from a casual viewer into a proper fan during his era and that was because of his writing and showrunning. For me, his real skill has always been the ability to write quirky, but believable dialogue that enriches the characters, which is where RTD always fell down IMHO. (In fact I have issues with RTD's writing outside of Doctor Who in general, but that's another story.) Whilst I recognise that his time on the show is almost definitely winding down, I think people are possibly in for a shock after he leaves if they don't pick the right replacement. In industry terms, this show really is a beast to wrangle. There's nothing like it in relation to balancing budgetary pressures, fan expectations and attempting to preserve it as the iconic piece of television that it is. I'm not hitting out at people who don't like Moffat either. Sometimes you gel with a person's style of doing things, and sometimes you don't. I do however think there's a major possibility that a misstep over who they employ next could make those who detest him actually long for the Moffat era eventually. In fact, I think they're going to be hard pressed to find his replacement at all. There are very few writers with his experience and absolutely unrelenting love of the show out there who'd be prepared to commit to it and take on the pressures it brings with it.

As someone turning up for a few episodes, absolutely not. But there's no chance of them digging that far back for a full-time companion. It's a moot point anyway because Moffat has already said the next one will be a new character. The reason I'd be fine with a parental Doctor/companion relationship is because the writers constantly seem to be fighting the semi-romantic vibe that's been hanging around to different degrees since the start of the new run, be it intentional or not. It is the right time to overhaul that dynamic and finally do something different with it IMHO. Oh and there's little to say that his second family have to have anything to do with the first. He's been alive for a long time. It might be a good way in to explore his own childhood. He didn't exactly convincingly deny Ashildr's assertion in 'Hell Bent' that the reason he's so preoccupied with keeping Earth safe is because he's half human. I know the 'Hybrid' turned out to be him and Clara, but still.

Sorry, I was speculating out loud, but by the time they leave Darillium they'll have been together for 24 successive years. That's not even factoring in the time they'll have spent having adventures in the TARDIS and arriving back there 2 minutes later. They've also both got Time Lord DNA as well, which I presume means having babies is still a possibility. To be honest, I can absolutely imagine River falling pregnant, disappearing for 9 months in the TARDIS, leaving the baby in a 'safe place' and then arriving back moments later like nothing has happened. Superficially, it'd seem like a cruel thing to do, especially as she never mentions anything in the Library, but then she'd know all about the dangers of a baby falling into the wrong hands and the only person she'd ever love more than him would probably be his child. All it would require then is for The Doctor to accidentally encounter a grown up version of said child. Again, I'm just speculating wildly, but Twelve's reaction to babies in Season 9 just struck me as though it could be foreshadowing. It might be a great way to delve more into Gallifrey now as well as more of his past, and this episode could have set all that up. I'm surprised that I'm actually ok with the thought of this. It just seems like it'd really work with Capaldi's Doctor, and a parental companion relationship would be a nice change. I really don't think they'll bring back Susan or her Mother for more than an episode. Moffat would struggle to sell that to the BBC who'd probably be concerned that 'New Who' fans wouldn't be invested. It's great that Big Finish do some serious fan service though.

I agree, and I'd count myself as a Moffat fan as well. The show does need fresh blood to drive it forward.

Absolutely adored this special. I was a River/Eleven fan, but Kingston and Capaldi just clicked instantly which is great seen as Twelve is now undeniably River's Doctor. It'll be a great shame if we don't see her again before Capaldi regenerates. Their chemistry is too good to waste. It's also left me wondering if their grown up child could be the next companion. I'd usually baulk at that kind of thing, but what with Twelve being weirdly broody and mesmerised by babies in Series 9 and the fact they do need to change things up, I could really get behind that.

It's not going to be Gatiss, I don't think. They're apparently looking far and wide for the next showrunner and I doubt that would be necessary if Moffat had inclination of handing the reins over to him. I actually hope it's not him. The last couple of eps he's turned in for the show were pretty terrible. 'Sleep No More' was just awful. He's way more suited to dealing with Sherlock. Personally, I'm hoping they court Dennis Kelly. He doesn't have a ton of experience as a showrunner, but he's British and his show, Utopia, is an absolute gem.

I saw those cable ratings for Tuesday and was pretty shocked, I mean I think the show's crap but I never expected it to sink so low so quickly in the new season, especially as they've clearly thrown so much money at it. I've got a morbid fascination with how this show does though, because I think it's symptomatic of why Bravo is screwing up right now. They had a formula that worked really well and then they decided to branch out into scripted because they saw $ signs. Well that hasn't worked out well for them, has it? It doesn't matter how good the DVR ratings are. They make the bulk of their profits from advertising during the first broadcast, and a show that's routinely losing more than a million viewers from RHOBH can't be bringing that much in. Drama is way more expensive to make than reality anyway. Hell, they could put a RH re-run on and it'd probably do better than this. I still think the lead was miscast and the showrunner is smoking the good stuff if she thinks this show resembles the average person's divorce. Jury's out if they'll renew. It might be a matter of pride, because they don't want to admit their great new direction for the channel was a complete failure. At least AMC had the sense to hold up their hands when they made a mistake and went back to doing what they do best. That's actually pretty immoral, especially as it's the second time she's done it after lying to her readers about her 'perfect marriage' in the first place. Is there anybody on this show who doesn't deserve to be thrown on an island to fend for themselves?

[quote name="Julia" post="1769911" timestamp=" So, no, not unless something changes drastically (I'm open to fridging Jo, Jake, and everyone involved in the rich guy lawyer adultery subplot. I'd add Phoebe's psycho pimp predator stalker, but I'm trying to pretend that didn't happen), probably not. Phoebe's abuse storyline is one of the major things that made me can it. Most TV shows don't handle abuse well and I have zero faith in the writers to deal with that appropriately. I don't even know why they're going there in a show like this. The Abby/Jake thing is just annoying too. He treats her like crap and we're supposed to believe they're still deeply in love. He's a creep. When I saw all the promos were about them, I was like HELL NO!

I gave up on it after last season. I just checked how it did on Tuesday night and it barely scraped into the top 100 cable shows. That might be why nobody's here.

Because if her parents really bring her into the fold, Paige is a way of finding out what the Center is up to for the foreseeable future. That's far more valuable than simply arresting two spies who can be replaced and who are trained not to give anything up under interrogation. I think it's possible that the CIA are thinking as long-term as the Center is. Aside from all that, I always thought the way Paige was 'recruited' by the Church was way too convenient.