missysays

I wanted to ask a question of everyone. I've been hearing online from different reviewers etc that they think that Angelica's death was what spawned the cluster that we followed in season 1. I actually don't think that's the case. I think she spawned them before her death and she killed herself because she didn't want Whispers to see them through her. I think she must have spawned other clusters before the one we saw in the first episode and maybe Whispers used her to get to them and that's what she's trying to prevent this time around. What do you guys think? And I'm also wondering can any sensate give birth to a new cluster or can only certain sensates do it? If that's the case I'm thinking that Riley is the sensate most likely to give birth to other sensates. Don't know if others have talked about this already. I haven't had a chance to go through all the threads. Very happy about the green light for the 2nd season. I hope we'll find out more info about Whispers and BPO in the next season.

I actually wonder if it's something as superficial as the songs and stories they've been given to interpret. Last season Val and Janel asked for and were given very accessible/mainstream songs and concepts that could more easily draw the audience in. I looked back on all their songs and they never got a weird or difficult to interpret song- except maybe the opening jive to Bang, Bang. They danced to things like West Side Story, Romeo and Juliet, cute foxtrot to pop song, on and on. They were really blessed they were given beautiful songs with romantic storylines so that even when Janel's dancing was subpar audiences could still engage in the story. This year Val and Rumer's songs have been sometimes not as engaging or very similar to each other. The opening foxtrot to Take Me to Church was beautiful. But everything since has been a little downbeat, similar in style, or doesn't draw you into a storyline as easily. His choreography actually still goes with the songs he's been given it's just harder to enjoy as an audience member bc the song choices themselves haven't been as easy.

If Riker really had years and years of ballroom training then why didn't he compete for more than one season? Wouldn't he have stuck with it longer and have more results to show? Also, yes the examples I pointed out were in the foxtrot a standard dance but in general he doesn't partner Allison in a way that makes me feel that he has retained anything he may have learned in his brief stint as a ballroom dancer. If anything he has more prowess in the side by side moves that most past contestants with some dance training have had. I also think it's interesting that the producers brought Allison back this season. They must feel she brings a certain cache with her contemporary dance ability. Though if you think about it other dancers like Chelsea as well as troupe members Lindsay, Jenna, and Brittany have all had that cross training and a more solid ballroom base so I wonder why Allison? She does have an Emmy nod under her belt but it was a co-nomination with Derek. Someone else on the board mentioned that her true gift is as a contemporary dancer and less as a choreographer and I tend to agree. The choreography I've seen so far on Riker has been serviceable but the reason say last week's dance was so electric had less to do with her choreography and more to do with their combined performance energy together. Hope she continues to learn by doing though. I can't wait for them to get contemporary that could be something special.

I for one don't have any concern for Riker's latin ballroom past- he clearly hasn't retained enough of it to give him any visible advantage. He didn't know to maintain a hip connection with Allison in their foxtrot. His frame wasn't that good. What he does have in spades is performance charisma and the ability to embody the essence of the type of dance and song he's given. And he does have an agility and ability to pick up choreography that comes from his hip hop/jazz dance training and also from his youth and natural athleticism. I'm not going to quibble about something he did over 8 years ago. I'm just noticing that his and Allison's dances are the only ones that I've watched more than once after the episode has aired- and that's saying something. Besides Val and Rumer's first foxtrot and Patti and Artem's salsa I haven't re-watched any other dances except for Riker and Allison's - not even Nastia and Derek's. They strike a chord in me and I enjoy their performances. And that's what I'm looking forward to- I hope they stay in until the finals.

My two favs tonight were Miss Patti and Riker!!! Miss Patti just has that ability only a legend has of filling a room with her personality so you feel her groove even though she didn't really move all that much. I think someone like Suzanne was doing 10x more than Patti was in terms of steps and moves but while Suzanne has that fun spacy personality that she's known for- you can tell she's not a strong stage performer she's not able to really project her personality all that well. Either that or Tony gives her so many moves there aren't very moments when she can just stand there and give good face like Patti. I want to grow up and be like Miss Patti!!! Ha! And Riker- he was pretty awesome. That choreography that Allison gave him was a contemporary lyrical hip hop light version of foxtrot. I was worried this week for them because I too see Riker's promise. He can learn and absorb so quickly - he was able to capture those moments that Allison did give him. That little rond-de-jambe action on the floor with pointed toe was really awesome. He was also surprisingly debonaire when he just stood there at the opening beats and flicked the top button open on his shirt -- I thought he was 30 not 23. It's just too bad that Allison doesn't have the ballroom technique herself to be able to really teach him and build an even more solid technical base. Can you imagine how even more amazing he would be if he had gotten someone who was stronger in ballroom. His frame would have been even better and he might even have learned how to connect and lead/steer Allison a bit in the closed frame passes. Someone said that Allison seems to be using all these production setups to "hide" his dancing but I don't think it's his dancing she's trying to hide but her own choreographic weaknesses. Allison needs to get one of the male pros to teach Riker even stronger technique and then maybe he will have that fighting chance she's talking about. He has that rare ability of a true performer to really take things up a notch during the live performance and elevate and breathe life into so-so choreography. There were moments when I felt little romantic undercurrents to his performance when he was touching her chin. That's sort of amazing considering his boy band background. He's 100x better than Cody Simpson ever was.

She's in a new show?!!! Must check it out. As for her height, she's 5'9 and Derek's 5'10 so they would have probably needed to do some choreographic adjustments but she's such a strong dancer that they would have been able to do more side-by-side steps to mask their near sameness in height and she would have been able to conform and know to bend her knees etc to make sure their lines looked good together. Sigh. I think the one challenge that Derek will have with Nastia this season is helping her with the performance side of things. ETA: the way Derek is prepping Nastia is kind of amazing watching her rehearsing with Henry via video and then sending her text messages!!! I hope Henry's getting a little pay increase this season bc he's basically doing the troupe parts and then being a Derek stand-in. Whew!

I was watching some of Riker and Allison's latest livestream rehearsal where they are prepping their foxtrot. Val and Rumer came in at the end and were watching. It cuts off into Val and Rumer's livestream where you see Val giving Riker some tips about making his shoes not so slippery on the floor. It made me realize how much I would love it if Allison had conferred with someone like Val before putting together their foxtrot or had a lesson herself. Riker has such potential. He has this really nice way of moving and even in their rehearsal you could tell he was starting to pick up subtleties like pointing his toes. What makes me concerned for him is that the choreography Allison's prepared for their dance was very pseudo-waltzy- if it could even be called that. It seemed like a few seconds in closed hold and the rest a lot of swaying kind of moves done separately. I wonder if she even knows what position she needs to be in to form a good frame with him. After watching Val's foxtrot with Rumer I noticed there is zero connection between Riker and Allison in the hip/upper leg area. I doubt she even knows the fundamentals well enough to instruct it. I'm thinking that they are going to get critiqued about it this week even though Riker is pretty much doing what Allison is instructing - which is this loose form contemporary dance version of what a foxtrot might be with no discernible ballroom steps.

Very interesting!!! I wonder why it didn't work out. Did she back out? Even though it would have been beyond unfair I would have loved watching her learn the various dances. She's all kinds of awesome. Did anyone see the short-lived show she was in... Bunheads? She was all sorts of fabulous in it. She played a retired dancer.

I also thought Val and Rumer's foxtrot was staccato. It could have been a tango in terms of feeling. Some of it had to do with the song but some of it had to do with Val's propensities as a choreographer and dancer. He is naturally a sharp, clipped mover. You can tell in any dance he has to choreograph that is supposed to smoother, slower, or more liquid. Even his rumbas tend to have a sharper quality to them. It's not a critique more an observation.

Did anyone catch the interview that Derek gave on Access Hollywood where he talks about having another partner that the producers were working on getting for him this season but that didn't work out and that's when they approached Nastia. It sounds like then that Derek was interested in coming back even earlier on - that it wasn't purely a last minute thing. That's sort of interesting-- wonder who the other celeb might have been?

I do wonder if Rumer is going to psyche herself out by all this studying other people's livestreams and not wanting to show any of the dance. I understand where she's coming from but it still makes me wonder...

I watched Riker and Allison's rehearsal today and I'm a little worried for them in terms of the long haul. I like Riker he seems focused and picks moves up really quickly. But what I noticed is that he needs a little bit of polish here and there in terms of arm, hand, leg, and foot placement. That little bit of finesse will turn him from a good mover to a great performer but at least in this livefeed Allison wasn't really giving that to him. She was just constantly throwing new moves at him - with very little instruction or correction. He had to stop several times and ask her where are you going? The fact that he could keep up and support her through some of lifts that he's never even done before speaks to his ability but he needs more than ability to make it beyond the first few rounds. While I love Allison as a dancer and performer I think she's sort of a liability as a teacher. She doesn't seem to know the basics well enough herself to correct and ground him in them- the way the other pros have been doing with their students. She seems to be just going for the coolest and showiest moves and I'm not sure that will hack it in the long run. I hope I'm wrong and that maybe we're only seeing a random hour and that she's covering the other stuff in the "real" rehearsal time.

Danseur, on 09 Mar 2015 - 09:04 AM, said: Just following up Danseur's comments about Val in his own thread... I was talking about this with someone else. I think Val's teaching technique is something that is an interesting mix of foundational instruction as well as teaching his students about how you should feel in a particular step or movement. That if you feel proud then your chest and chin will automatically lift and you will be in the right placement to do a step. I personally love it but I can see how if you take in information in a different way how it's not everyone's cup of tea. What did you like about Val's teaching?

Hey I'd love to talk more about Val's teaching style in Val's thread. I like his style too!

Charlotte and Keo were better in this 3rd rehearsal. Either someone said something to them or they watched the footage back and realized how they were coming off. They were much less antagonistic this time around and much more cooperative with one another. I've enjoyed watching these rehearsals bc each pro has a different teaching style. Keo put down these pipes on the floor to teach Charlotte how to keep her steps going in a straight line and he learned that one of her legs is longer than the other so that's why she sometimes moves with a little bit of an imbalance in her steps sometimes. This is the sort of stuff that's interesting and fun to know about each of the couples.

I don't know Robert's core personality since I don't watch Shark Tank but he seems very flirtatious with Kym during their rehearsals. Or is that his normal personality?

I think what's interesting about Rumer is that she comes off better when she's in motion rather in a static picture. I also like how the social media she's put out there so far is giving us a good idea of who she is as an individual. I feel like I'm getting to know her as a person. And that's what DWTS is all about.

I think they both have problematic personalities. As people have said in this thread already, Keo is using every bit of time to promote himself - sometimes to the detriment of his celeb. But Charlotte isn't completely innocent either. She doesn't come off as the most mature person and she's constantly finding ways to insult him in uncalled for ways. Some of it I believe she's not conscious of but other times she says something cutting but then quickly veils it by saying they have awesome chemistry. I hope they get put out of their misery and are the first couple that gets the boot. Yikes!

This unedited livestream rehearsal is potentially a good or bad thing. Good for those couples that have a real rapport and interesting things to say to each other and bad for those couples that are off in their dynamic and have an energy that doesn't work well together. I find myself putting Charlotte and Keo in the latter group. I had their rehearsal on for about 5 minutes and then had to stop bc they were causing me to lose my train of thought and get a headache. With the caveat that I only watched a few moments...they both came off as a little manic but in different ways. And on top of it she didn't seem to like him that much and he was overcompensating and instead of slowing down the teaching when she wasn't getting it seemed to speed it up so that it was even harder for her to follow. Plus, their dance choreography seemed way too complicated for someone of her skill level to master. This is such a pity bc physically they are just the right height and build for each other and they look amazing together but if this is any indication of how they'll perform together. Sigh!

One thing I noticed watching their rehearsal was how strong Rumer is in her core. She's trained in aerial work so she's used to holding beautiful positions while being suspended. When Val lifts her a couple of times in the rehearsal the shape and form she takes is really lovely. She also has a lot of strength overall in her body- really points her toes and stretches and extends her arms and legs. She's going to be a force to be reckoned with in terms of her ability to move well. I think her biggest challenge is going to be whether or not she can turn on a great dance performance when it counts on the live shows. During the rehearsal she seemed lovely but also a bit shy. I'm really looking forward to their next rehearsal.

I read somewhere someone saying that teens will help you on a Twitter vote-- why Bethany was able to get that encore dance and someone like James in the season before because it's fast and easy and allows them to do so because most have Twitter accounts already. But that even online voting requires setting up an email account and then connecting your email account to either an ABC account or Facebook account- both which are involved processes. I know because I tried to login via Facebook and even with my existing account it took a validation step that didn't take on the first go round. Teens will also text - but they've taken away the option to text/vote this season. Also, as spanana says having a young teen demographic isn't enough to take it all the way. Both Alfonso and Sadie had a multiple generation, multiple fan sector support. Janel only had her PLL and showmance fan support. And I'm not convinced her PLL fan support was all that solid. Other celeb support isn't always a major factor in a win but it does demonstrate which other demographics you may appeal to as a celeb. Sadie obviously had both conservative religious support as well as southern, country fan/ Duck Dynasty support. Janel had some PLL support via the official PLL twitter and social media accounts but besides Brant and the show runner had little visible cast support from the main actors on the show. She also didn't have as much celebrity support on her side- I think her friends tend to be other struggling actors and entertainers. Val actually had more celebrity support from his side of the equation with Maks, Meryl, and Zendaya tweeting for him. And even then it wasn't solid because people who were C-bros fans or fans of Zendaya were divided on his relationship with Janel. Alfonso on the other hand had his entire Fresh Prince cast (even Will Smith on Facebook) as well as other celeb friends he's acquired over the years- plus all the ensuing nostalgia. He also had friends in the political and sports sector as well as being a father and husband with a young growing family he hit many more demos than Janel could even dream to touch. I feel also that his fan support was undivided because the rapport he developed with Witney was such a friendly, natural one. And on top of it all, he was the most natural, sophisticated and effective performer. He held your attention even dancing next to a pro or in a crowd of pros. Most pros who have troupe members in their dances disappear a little bit- not Alfonso his energy and performance ability made it feel like he was leading the entire pack.

This all of it!!! I've actually really wondered all season long if they had just gone about their dances and packages normally without that coy back and forth bs if in the end they would have achieved that natural romantic chemistry all on their own (and the accompanying audience support) without all the straining and phony feeling generated from their own tortorous narratives and fake played out scenes during their packages or the over the top gushing from the judges. Everytime they were praised to the skies I never felt it was genuine but like the the producers wanted to maneuver them into the finals because Janel was someone they thought would do well on tour if they could just place her high enough in the overall standings to warrant her inclusion. It's not likely Sadie or Bethany would go on tour like that since their careers lie elsewhere as well as their age (though maybe that's less of a concern for Bethany). That was what put me off all the bragging and then when I watched that week's dance nothing that then met up to the expectation that they had built up for themselves. I think I would have naturally enjoyed them a lot more if they hadn't done any of that. And this is a bit of a detour but... I feel like Val can be a bit one note in what he considers his performance "strength." I think he feels that the genuine Val is the romantic strong leading male portraying a sexy and passionate love relationship with a female. And so I can see him looking for that each season. Yet I've connected with him most when he hasn't had that... for ex I loved his relationship with Zendaya and Sherri. I loved the humor, warmth, and affection that he was able to generate with those two partners. And yes in the end I connected because I felt he developed a real relationship with the two of them. His choreography has grown in leaps and bounds over the past several seasons but he still has a ways to go to reach Derek or even Mark level in terms of range in his choreographic concepts. With this new generation of younger pros coming in like Witney and others who are pushing to get into the pro ranks like Jenna they've had a range of training from ballet, contemporary, hip hop, as well as ballroom (and who knew Witney could tap a little??), Val's competition from the other pros will only increase. He's going to have to continue to push himself choreographically. I think one of the reason's why he and his brother seemed to choke a bit on the freestyles is that they are only truly comfortable in ballroom when they've wandered outside of ballroom it's always been less successful (even with outside help). Though I think Val has more adaptability and potential to master other styles than Maks ever did.

To me the being pissed or upset shows me one of two things... That the male pros are extremely competitive and also have egos (understandably so esp coming from a competitive ballroom world where strong male dancers are a scarce and prized commodity) in a way that maybe a female pro (while still competitive and having a strong confidence and sense of self) probably doesn't have as much of. The other thing it sort of shows me is how much a bubble the DWTS pros and celebs must be in while they're in the middle of their season. I got a small inkling of this when I saw Sasha Farber earlier on in the season commenting on Afterbuzz that he thought Val and Janel were going to win. This was right in the middle of the strong backlash they were receiving on their showmance and before their stronger dances kicked in. The Afterbuzz hosts sort of reacted in surprise because they had clearly been viewing Janel's performances without the bias of working directly with them as well as being aware of all the social media backlash they were receiving. This showed me to some extent that while the pros and celebs are more active on social media these days during the season that they're still pretty insulated and focused on the task at hand and may not be fully aware of how they're coming across to the general audience. Hence then feeling completely devastated (as in Val's case) or pissed (as in Derek or Mark's case). Though I will say this Derek is very good at covering it up in public. In general while I've never been a big Derek fan this season I appreciated and saw why he's been the winner of so many MBT's. His choreography truly has the most polish, structure, and visual impact out of most of the other pro choreography but even within that he's good at tailoring each piece to his celeb's abilities. He also has this friendly yet light touch with his celebs- even when he's stressed or mad it's not quite as intense and he doesn't come across as blaming their celeb or judge the way say the Chmerkovskiy bros sometimes can come across. So as the celeb and as the audience you don't feel like he has all this pent up rage or frustration. This was true of him even in the early days of the show when he hadn't won any MBT's yet.

Interesting! I could see that type of process working well with a reality competition like DWTS. It engages audience members in many different ways - I have really enjoyed the All Access feeds. Just thought the America's Choice was poorly done! Funny that you bring up Bethany because in many ways she seems not to be using her social media channels all that much this season (esp given who she came in as). She barely tweets, IGs and I think she's done only 1 or 2 videos on her YT channel since the season started (and none of them dancing related). I feel like the other celebs all use their social media outlets much more than she does.

I think what was the confusing part for me was that I heard mentions that America was going to help choose the beginnings and endings for dances but I never saw how I could contribute. For example, I think I saw early in the week a video from Bethany and Derek about how fans should help them but I never saw real instructions for how to do it. I also saw after the fact that Sadie had had her costume designed by "America." How, when? I think that was the part that felt manipulative to me. I don't follow all of the cast on social media but I think I generally scroll through an IG feed or twitter feed once a day and even that wasn't enough to figure out how to "vote" for some of the couples.