missysays

Perhaps AV and IGN did. I was thinking of the ones I read in Hollywood Reporter and LA Times. I thought while they mentioned that there are 10 episodes that they spoke mainly about the first few hours - meaning the two hour debut.

After watching this episode, I think the majority of the critics who damned the first two episodes as being flat storytelling with no character development didn't give it enough of a chance. For me, there was character development galore -especially amongst the secondary storylines. If you look more closely at the Tip storyline it's a complex layering of an adolescent who has been abused and possibly kidnapped their entire life. On top of it you might say it's an allegory about the struggle of a transgendered person. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the moment when Tip doesn't know which bathroom to go to spells out in a nutshell what most transgendered people feel. Their gut tells them they are one thing but physical appearance and social norms says they have to behave in a different way. I was also impressed by the directing and acting of the actors who played bit parts in Tip's scenes. The waitress who walked up to Tip and warned him about covering up wasn't unkind. After her verbal warning, she gently and sympathetically touched Tip on his forearm. Also, the herbalist was also very kind in his revelation and warning to Tip about the true nature of the "medicine." The Wizard and Anna scenes were also interesting bc you don't expect him to be so sympathetic to her and to relate to her in some ways. Really great nuanced stuff in there. I hope the viewing audience continues to give the show a chance. Plus, it doesn't hurt that Dorothy and her Scarecrow are gorgeous to look at and have a great chemistry.

I wonder if that Wizard's guard is the equivalent of the Tin Man and we'll learn more about his backstory as the series goes on. He is part of the main cast group photo and his armor could be their allusion to the Tin Man just as the straw stuck on Lucas when he was on the cross was his Scarecrow nod. I am also hopeful that we haven't seen the last of Jack. He is also in the same cast group photo so he may be back later on. Contrast this with Mombi (the crazy witch who held Tip captive) who is not included in the group photo. Though I don't think we've seen the last of her either since she came back to life after Lucas "killed" her. This is all to say i continue to be intrigued by this show and this episode provided enough cliffhangers and questions to keep me going.

I think the jeweled gauntlets are supposed to be the ruby slippers and will come into play later on in the series too. That red dress was amazing though.

James continues to impress me week after week! The man intuitively understands what needs to be done in a dance and somehow is able to come out with it even when it's not natural to him. He is able to sense where he needs to be technically and also emotionally to make the performance spark. And above all- he somehow knows how to emotionally lead Sharna in the dances. I think he is the first celeb dance partner she's had who is her emotional equal. Plus, he's getting better technically each week. The couple turn that he had to do was so much smoother this week in comparison to week 1. He's amazing and I love to watch their chemistry together. I can see how Laurie won her matchup with Marilu but I'm not ready to give up on Marilu just yet. Last week in that Taxi foxtrot she made the most beautiful shapes- the way she angled her head, legs. Just gorgeous! And the music was soft and subtle enough that it allowed her room to breathe and show off her lines. This week the beginning of the dance in that spotlight was actually nice but then the music sped up and became too fast for her. Derek really needs to be smarter in selecting music for her and giving her pieces that allow her to show off what she does best- showing off her gorgeous posture and stretched legs. She's never going to place above Laurie if she's trying to fight her in the power and drive department. They need to be more strategic in their music and choreographic choices. Derek has the creativity to give Marilu intricate and interesting moves. Those two are my favorite so far.

When the "One Month Later..." was playing, I sort of wondered if Hopper and Joyce were going to explore a romantic relationship together. I half expected when he parked his car that he was parking it outside of Joyce's house and that he would show up as a fourth member of that holiday dinner that Joyce and her boys were having. I don't necessarily think they'd be the best match together but they do make a certain sense together in that their emotional wounds fit each other. Hope we get to find out more next season!

I sort of wondered if the other 10 subjects were dead or eliminated in some way since Eleven was the only one in the facility. She seemed to be the only one who survived the experiments that were run on them.

I was wondering if the Department of Energy or whatever government agency was in charge of Hawkins Labs had to shell out some sort of pay out for Joyce and her family and that's where the money came from to renovate the house. It did look like their old house- had the same door and exterior just completely refurbished. I mean it would make sense if they got a pay out - after all their agents planted a fake dead body and made it seem like her son was dead and the agents who were responsible caused havoc all over town before getting killed themselves. As for Jonathan's new camera it was a replacement present from Steve and Nancy. Steve asked Nancy when she came back to the living room if she got a chance to give it to Jonathan. It seems that he wanted to make amends. It's pretty clear though that Nancy and Jonathan aren't done and that they're relationship will continue to be explored in the next season (if they get one). Nancy has way more of a natural and intimate connection with Jonathan than she does with Steve. I loved their scenes together- they seem to really listen and think well together in a way that she doesn't with Steve. Even though it seems like she's chosen Steve I think it's really just for now and she and Jonathan will continue to grow their connection. I think one of the reasons why she "forgave" him so soon was because they had a common evil to fight together. But she wasn't ready to completely end her relationship with Steve and start up with Jonathan so she's taking it slow there. But you can tell that she's thinking about Jonathan and connected to him in a way that she's not with Steve. I also want to know why Hopper left the food for Elle in the woods. What does he know from his ride with the government agents that the rest of us don't? I was watching an interview with some of the producers of the show and they say that in the next two weeks they are going to meet with Netflix to see if they are greenlit for the second season and if so they're going straight into planning and mapping out of the next season. They seemed pretty confident it would happen because they were talking specifically about how this series is not meant to be an anthology and it's meant to continue the story with the same characters we've been introduced to in season 1. So if it continues we'll most likely get all of our questions answered- plus more!

BTW, Val didn't choreograph that number himself. Jenna and Alan Salazar did- according to Alan's IG. https://www.instagram.com/p/BDzp17voLOV/ I sort of doubt that Val has ever choreographed any of his contemporary numbers. I think he gets help every time he has to do that dance style. I don't think he has enough contemporary dance vocabulary to be able to construct a well formed contemporary dance. Not that his dance with Ginger tonight was all that great. So not sure why he was gushing about it on Twitter. My favorite dance of the night belonged to Mark and Paige. What a fantastic way to create a new take on a Paso that also reflects her specialty. Mark's creativity has been hitting the mark time after time. I hope he gets an Emmy nod this next year. To me, the front runners are Wanya and Nyle. Nyle bc he's attacking every single dance he's given and Wanya bc he's feeling every dance he's been given. They are worthy finalists- i hope they make it through injury free until the very end.

I totally agree with this! I think that the showrunners in general have so many other irons in their fire -- using Flash to launch other shows (LOT), referring to comic book story arcs and characters that the first characters to be sacrificed are always the female characters. They try to make it up but when they do it's almost like they're cramming something in and it doesn't feel as natural as the other male characters' development and character arcs. Her scenes mourning Eddie should have been something they included much earlier in the season. They felt really crammed into this past episode. I think Candice's natural likability though is something that comes across even with the lack of screen time and her connection with Grant (when they allow them to have scenes) is palpable. So that helps a little bit. She's been filming quite a bit in the episodes leading up to the finale so hopefully they are making up for lost time by giving her more character development and integration into the overall story arc. Things are already much better than last season in that she's at least a part of the group scenes at Star Labs and she's included in the episode lead-ins where Barry talks about being helped by his friends at Star Labs and they've selected a clip with Iris working with Caitlyn and Cisco. And even in the Trajectory episode, she was at the crime scene in the morning before Barry and Joe get there and share with them some intel - so she's definitely a part of the Flash's investigative team. That's a step in a positive direction!

Yup! But I think that he doesn't have to be as boyish as he was in season 1 bc I think that Barry as a character has been through too much in the past 2 seasons to truly recapture that innocence he had in season 1 but he can feel happiness again! That's why I liked him on Supergirl- he was fun but also mature. He wasn't completely as he was in season 1 - he was a slightly more grown-up version of himself. I liked that you could see his experience and everything he's had to work through there on his face but along with it was an ease about him - like the heavy burden he'd been carrying around had finally fallen off his shoulders. He hasn't forgotten about everything he's been through but he's come out from the other side wiser and ready for happiness again.

Not sure where to talk about this...but I love how the Barry on Supergirl all of a sudden has his smarts back. I know he's got Cisco, Caitlyn, and Wells but there he's inventing things super buffered ear buds and writing algorithms that can hone in on electrical power all in one episode. Wish he could get a little of that mojo back on his own show.

It looks like after next week's Flash Back episode that they are going to skip another week before they pick up with new eps again. Groan!!! And then yes miss yet another one somewhere in there before playing out the rest of the season.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

I think everyone's (my own included) frustrations about continuity and consistency of the way the Barry/Iris love story is developed is in part due to the writers never having time to give Iris' PoV. You get Barry's PoV on their relationship sort of... He's been the good trouper since she told him late in season 1 that she loves Eddie and wants to be with him. He goes back in time to "save his mother" with the full knowledge that he was too late with Iris in their current timeline and that she's in a committed relationship with Eddie. Throughout the first part of season 2, he's operating under that same scenario- except now he and Iris have the added weight of Eddie's death and Barry's guilt hanging between them. He does allude in passing to Patty not being the same as Iris but even Joe is telling him to move on and give a new girl a chance. So he does just that- he tries to date Patty all the while keeping her at arms length and not letting her fully into his "real" life as the Flash. He does almost succeed in burying his feelings for Iris until the mission to Earth-2. He's completely ripped out of the carefully reconstructed life he made for himself and reminded of his "love" for Iris again- whether on Earth-1 or Earth-2. I'm thinking in particular of that scene right before E-2 Iris goes with Cisco to confront Killer Frost and Deathstorm when E-2 Iris grabs his chin and says 'i love you' he says it back in this way like all the effort he's made moving on from her was for nothing bc on this different Earth it all comes sliding back down on him. And in King Shark you see him dealing with it again even if it's not said out loud. Even when he tells Iris and Joe that E-2 Barry and Iris were married he tells the story that "we" were married and E-2 Joe didn't like "me" he can't differentiate. It's greater than just the love story/ it's also E-2 Joe's death but it's all intertwined for Barry and you sense that his feelings for Iris has come back into his consciousness. That side look he gives her after he lets slip that they're married on the other Earth. But Iris... she gets none of the same opportunity to express herself and her feelings- about Barry or even about Eddie's death. You see her surprise and pause when Barry tells her that they're married on E-2 but you don't know what she's thinking. Iris in general since the start of the show hasn't been given too many opportunities for you to know what her PoV is. The only two times you do know her feelings are once right before the tsunami hits when she admits her feelings for Barry and then once and only once as a voiceover intro in the episode when she learns that Barry is the Flash. I think as someone mentioned further up this thread that Iris' interactions with Scott her new editor will finally allow her a chance to reflect on her state of mind about Eddie and Barry and then she'll be ready to move forward with her emotional life. It's a pity that it takes another male to serve as a catalyst for her emotional advancement but I guess better that than nothing else but Iris silently emoting but not given any dialogue to speak. That was one of the things I hated about the scene when Barry admits to Iris his feelings for the first time in season 1. The scene itself was beautifully acted by both of the actors but the fact that Iris is mute throughout the entire thing always makes me roll my eyes. Hopefully it's not just her agency that she regains in some of the later episodes of season 2 but her voice (literally!) as well.

I'm not saying that I'd like it if that's what would happen but I'm sort of going through who it could possibly be behind that iron mask. I'm thinking it's someone that the audience would know or else why the mask. So of the male characters that we've seen the past two seasons - it's not likely to be a former villain of the week metahuman. It's not likely to be Jay (at least not the one we've seen on E1), the only missing males that we'd know are some version of Eobard (not likely), Henry? (not likely). I think some version of Jay may be Zoom or else why would they bother casting a fairly well known actor to play Jay if they were just going to give him the bland nowheresville storyline he's had so far this season. I think the man in the mask was spelling out Jay bc he was trying to warn Barry/Flash that Jay was Zoom. I actually would hate it if it were Eddie. I'm more than ready for E1's Barry and Iris to come together in a legitimate way! But how else would the showrunners drag this out- and you know they'll want to. They haven't shown that they know how to write for 3 dimensional solid romantic relationships where the action comes from struggles that they face together instead of against each other.

Don't know if this has been put out there. But I wonder if the man in the iron mask is Eddie that was resuscitated from death on E2 after his body was dragged into the wormhole at the end of last season. Pure conjecture: I wonder if they'll build Barry and Iris' relationship back up over the course of this season until the end when the "Eddie" comes back again right at the end of season 2 after they've declared their love for each other and then they'll end it as a major relationship cliff hanger at the end of season 2 -- along with some other super villain stuff too.

Yasssssss, Miss Almond!!!!! Pandora needs to get her groove back!

I agree; I enjoyed this ep too. I've been on the fence with Sleepy Hollow for quite some time now. I enjoy the chemistry between the actors - esp Ichabod/Abbie and now Jenny/Joe but the writing and possibly the direction of the show has always been problematic. It's like they've got some really great raw ingredients but the writers/directors can't seem to create the right sense pace and rhythm to the scenes. It's like the actors and their chemistry pull us through unsightly plot lines and some awkwardly directed scenes. For ex, I started to really notice Jenny and Joe's energy awhile back and I loved the emotions on Jenny's face when she thought Joe was shot and then when he reappeared- the relief and suppressed joy. And while their physical chemistry has potential- the kiss scene could have been shot a little differently to give it even more heat. And I love watching Ichabod not knowing what to do with himself without Abbie- constantly referring to her. And what a shot in the arm to see her back in the final scene. She is part of the lifeblood of the show. Ichabod's chemistry with that other detective was nothing in comparison to the energy he has with Abbie. BTW, I hate the Pandora and husband storyline. I know they need a baddie to struggle against but for such a build up for the Pandora character as a woman of strength- yes she's evil but she seemed to be her own woman earlier in the season. Now she's just a wife looking for her petulant husband's approval. The relationship has abusive overtones that I didn't like seeing. Also for all the buildup they're showing him to be moody, powerless and constantly blaming his wife for everything that's happening to him. Why does what I thought was a bad-ass evil female character put up with that? Overall, however, this episode peaked my interest again in the show so hopefully they can continue to build on last night's storylines.

I think Victor and possibly Kim are going to go this week. If Kim's fan base keeps her in then I think Chaka is probably going to be the other one who will possibly get the boot if not this week then next. If it weren't for Emma being his pro partner I actually wouldn't mind too terribly if Hayes were to be eliminated fairly early on. I'm not sure why people think he has stage presence and charisma. He doesn't. He did manage to execute the steps but executing is a far cry from actually dancing. I felt like he was listening to Emma counting the beats out and he wasn't actually listening to the music. With his fan base I don't really expect him to go until closer to the mid-point. He'll probably stay in as long as Cody Simpson stayed in the competition during his season.

Yes, I knew that all sensates can "visit" each other once they've established an eye-to-eye connection. That's why Whispers could "visit" with Jonas and also Angelica but couldn't actually control them. Or else wouldn't he have stopped Angelica from killing herself? He actually controlled or inhabited Niles' body the way fellow cluster sensates would be if they were "sharing" the way that Sun could step in and inhabit Capheus' body for fights etc. Unless the brain surgery makes the sensate susceptible in a way that a non-lobotomized sensate wouldn't be.

Now that would be very interesting indeed! (Edited to add) I just re-watched that bit in WWNDD and am now wondering if Niles and Whispers were in a cluster together bc otherwise how could Whispers inhabit his body like that and use him to kill other people? Though we know next to nothing about him except that he's a sensate with the ability to visit others once he "sees" them. And how is Yrsa linked to Whispers? Are they just fellow sensates or did they work together? I don't think they're the right age to be in a cluster together. My impression is that Yrsa is older. You know I was re-watching some of the eps and realized that recurring theme of the bad guys using a beautiful girl to lure the hero out so they can attack or hurt him. Capheus made a stop for a beautiful girl on the side of the street and she pulls back to reveal the group waiting to rob Capheus. And then of course there's poor Felix who was lured by a damsel in distress to the front door where he was then shot by Wolfgang's cousin. Beware!

I'm not so sure that Sara and Will were in a cluster together. Couldn't he just have seen her in person before her disappearance? And then bc he's a fellow sensate then she could visit him both in life and after her death? They never really state this but I'm thinking that a sensate can only be in one cluster (where you can share your abilities) with one another. But I agree with everything else that you said.

I hope there's more on the intertwining counterfeit drug story threads. I had originally thought it was only Kala and Capheus' storylines that were directly linked to the drug story. But now upon a review, that's what was behind the embezzling crime at Sun's family company too. I want to know if Rajan or his father are involved on the pharmaceutical company side and how Sun's brother devaluing the stock impacts everything. I know the Cluster is going to try their darnedest to figure out a way so that Will doesn't have to spend the entire season 2 comatose! ;-) Kill Whispers? Though I'm curious to see if the Wachowskis will start the story off right after Will and Riley's escape on the boat or if they're actually going to leap forward in the timeline a bit and the audience will have to play catch up. So far Will and Riley are the only ones from their cluster who have met in person right? I wonder who's most likely to meet up next. Sun is of course stuck in prison, Capheus probably doesn't have the funds to travel. Would Wolfgang feel like he needs to get out of dodge after killing his uncle?

Moving this comment to the speculation thread.