WInterfalls

I think lots of Scientologists don't honestly know about Xenu. Jenna Miscavige Hill didn't know about it until after she got out and watched the South Park episode. And she was actually really afraid to watch it because she had been told that it is very dangerous to look at the levels above you. When she did finally watch it that was the moment where she went oh this is all fiction. I think a lot of the scientologists that are in don't actually know or believe it is a thing until they get there and by that point they have invested so much they don't think they can question it.

So much worse. I saw all the Cruise couch jumping and "you're glib" stuff and thought the same thing. These guys believe weird stuff but whatever. Then I stumbled onto the "Truth Rundown" which was talked about in Rinder's episode. I honestly could not stop reading it and I was completely floored. I have been obsessed with Scientology ever since. This show is just feeding my addiction. It's my weekly fix.

Actually there was another couple that LRH had tapped as the possible next leaders, but it wasn't entirely clear and Miscavige basically pulled a coup to take power. Re: Shelley Miscavige's mom. I never heard about her! I am going to have to research that some more. I think that Shelley is definitely being held against her will somewhere or at least somewhat against her will, but I also think she was in up to her eyebrows with fishy stuff before she lost favor. I had a lot of sympathy for her until reading Jenna's book and hearing how Aunt Shelley treated her. I still think she needs to be found and assessed though.

This analogy is perfect I think. There is no doubt that before he left Rinder did some shitty things but in the end he was a victim plain and simple.

I honestly can't recommend "Beyond Belief" by Jenna Miscavige Hill enough. Inside Scientology is on my wishlist too, but I think my next book is going to be "Ruthless" by Little Davy's dad. I've got a few on women who've escaped FLDS groups on there as well.

He did join as a child after his parents joined in the 60's. I'm not sure what actual crimes he committed that he would need to turn himself in for. Scientology almost always managed to stay on just the right side of the law. He wasn't a part of the Ms. Lovely stuff in the 70's. As far as I can tell he did a lot of harassing and character assassination which while despicable is not illegal. Not to mention he has certainly had his fair share in return which he knew better than any would happen. He just doesn't come off as some nefarious figure to me. I think he spent almost his entire life in servitude to a machine that fed him lies and abuse and now he's out to expose it. That's my take on him anyway.

I really hope this show causes the government to take a closer look at the abuses in Scientology. David Miscavige deserves to be in prison. This episode was really intense. I was struck that Leah didn't even know she had given the church the right to take her out of the hospital if she needed mental help. Tony Ortega's book on Paulette Cooper is on my Amazon wish list. Might need to make that my next read.

Trouble Maker is good because of Leah's personality. Jenna's book focuses more on her life and the inner workings of the Sea Org. Going Clear is just a relentlessly researched and in depth look at all of Scientology. As much as I loved Going Clear it is not as entertaining as the other two because it's more of a just the facts type of book.

I haven't read "Ruthless" yet but I have read "Going Clear" and "Trouble Maker" We should start a thread for all the CO$ tell all books out there.

Ok I finished Jenna's book this weekend and seeing as there are a few others here who have read it or are reading I am really interested in what everyone thought. I thought it was amazing. Her life is fascinating. I honestly could not imagine all that she went through.

That is OT III I believe. By the time a public Scientologist finds that stuff out they've spent at $100k. Makes them less likely a just say f this if they have spent that kind of money getting there.

Yes Jenna Miscavige Hill is David Miscavige's niece and her story is fascinating being that she was basically raised by the Church and not her parents. If you want a look at the kids' lives you should absolutely read her book Beyond Belief. She was basically baffled by how ordinary children behaved. I've almost finished her book and honestly it seems like the further along she got in the church it only ever got worse for her.

I agree I felt like Rinder's emotions were real, and I broke down at that point too. I think Rinder did some pretty terrible thing while in CO$, but as he mentioned early in the episode lots of people have had the attitude of blaming the Church more than him. That attitude lines up pretty well with most of the first hand stories I've read. Everyone was ratting on each other or trying to get others in trouble especially if they themselves had been in trouble because it brings them back into favor with the Church.

Whatever you do don't give them your real address or phone number or they will never stop hounding you. Remini talked about in her book about people having to shut down their mailboxes because they got a never ending string of junk mail from CO$.

I read her book and that does sound kind of familiar so I could just be totally wrong. That would make her I guess OT VI since she didn't complete VII.

She did a Reddit AMA before the show started and I believe she said she was an OT 3.

YOW! That's a good story. According to Jenna Miscavige Hill's book that I am currently reading and honestly can't recommend enough if you want a perspective of someone who spent her entire life in the Sea Org, LRH believed that the root of all miscommunication was misunderstood words. So their schooling would consist of hours on end of looking up words in the dictionary. When they didn't do things right or got in trouble or didn't understand something in their course they would be told that they needed to "clear their words". If they thought everything was fine but made mistakes or said they didn't understand stuff they were directed to find their misunderstood word and clear it. Realize this was to a girl who was 7 years old.

Ok so I am going to defend Rebecca here for a second. I was very much like young Kate growing up in the 80's. I was just a bit bigger than all the other girls even though I wasn't outright fat. My mother would make comments about how I didn't have the right body type for that outfit or something similar and I was on a million different diets. The thing was though she did it out of nothing more than love and concern and sure it gave me insecurities I carry with me still but it's not because she was a bad mother. The climate of the time was just like that. What I later learned when we sat and talked about it as adults was that what she said to me was nothing compared to what her mother had said to her. My grandmother that I always thought of as perfect had watched everything her and her sisters ate like a hawk. When other moms said eat all your food her's told her it was better to waste on the plate than on her hips. My mother said all she ever wanted was for me to be happy and healthy, but she didn't want to be her mother either. Basically, she was just trying to find the balance and be a good mom and that is exactly what I'm seeing in Rebecca. She's trying to find the balance here. Maybe she's not handling things the way we would today, but it's not because she cold and unloving she's just not sure what the best way is.

I got so choked up during that, seriously. I can't wait for Nov 25th. Also yeah what IS Matt Czuchry wearing?

That's what I keep wondering. If you have a lien on your house it can't be sold until the lien is cleared so how are they selling this house? Reality means very little on TV though.

I think it makes total sense that Jamie would not want Claire to work. It's shows that in many ways he is a man of his time and it doesn't necessarily make him come off well because of it. But at the same time he doesn't forbid her to do it and she keeps going back. I agree that it's pretty sad that they are not connecting as a couple so much right now, but based on Claire's response when she gets back home it won't last forever. I actually appreciate that Jamie is having PTSD problems because it's real.

Jacqueline: My husband Julian is flying in from London tonight for the party. Kimmy: That's the fanciest sentence I've ever heard. And I used to watch Fraiser.

Regarding Claire's education on Culloden: the issue isn't that she doesn't know what happens in that battle. Actually she does because she discusses it with Frank. Culloden is not the whole war just the final and most devastating battle. Truthfully the war was lost already at that point they just had to play it out at the end. Her thing is she doesn't know enough about the battles and military movements that led them to the point so as to change them to win the war. That is why she is saying the Scots can't win so we need to try to prevent them from trying.

Right? I find it funny that everyone is like just ignore it don't get involved but if she hadn't it could have lead to an outbreak that could kill hundreds of people. Le Comte St. Germain doesn't care because he is rich and would be far away from the outbreak but she is right to not let that happen. I think that's why Jamie is is like ok go ahead when she rushes in.