Ellaria

Having seen the crown jewels in the Tower of London, I completely agree. I would love to see the collection of tiaras and necklaces. Very nice! I've read that as well. However, I'm never quite sure if we see/hear the "real" Charles or a carefully constructed version of him. IMO, Charles has always been a bit of an anachronism. He often seems out of step with the "modern world" whether that's due to his sheltered upbringing, his own personal choices or the image that the media has chosen to portray. I think that he is a complex man lacking self-awareness. Frankly, I don't find him to be interesting in any way. And that's my problem with the demands that "The Crown" be declared as fiction. My opinion of Charles has not been altered by watching S4. THIS! I hate hunting. These two positions are widely divergent. He claims to be an environmentalist and conservationist yet refers to hunting as "romantic." Can't have it both ways. Again, his stance on these matters points to his complexities and not in a good way. He seems unwilling to let go of what I believe are the cruel, barbaric practices of his ancestors.

Yes, they need to get a grip. Or perhaps they should be thankful that The Crown presented Lord Mountbatten as a dignified elder statesman and ignored much of the "unsavory" (I'm being polite here) aspects of his life. No comments about the "Uncle Nazi" depiction of the Duke of Windsor in S2 who suddenly morphed into a misunderstood old man in S3. And then there is Andrew... Let the official Royal biographers gild the lily. I don't need to be told that a TV show is a drama.

Completely agree. For that matter, no one needed to hold up a sign at the start of "Hamilton" to remind us that it wasn't a documentary. Now, HBC is complaining. too. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/helena-bonham-carter-says-the-crown-has-moral-responsibility-to-tell-viewers-its-a-drama?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter A "moral responsibility!" Come on! How come she didn't say anything similar about "The Kings Speech?" Or about the contrasting portrayals of the Duke of Windsor in S2 vs S3? I'm not arguing about the authenticity of what we saw on screen. I am stating that The Crown is an elaborately produced TV show that dramatizes the life of the Royal Family. It isn't a documentary and never claimed to be one. I've watched actual documentaries on the Royal Family and some of them are quite damning. I'm not sure why they think that we are idiots and don't understand that what we are watching is entertainment.

Sigh...it’s over and I realize that I didn’t really care about any of it. The few characters that I enjoyed - Rabbi, Dr. Senator - were long gone. There were way too many characters and many - like Deafy - didn’t have a real purpose in the story. I like Chris Rock but this wasn’t a great role for him. I never felt menace or cunning in his portrayal. I don’t like Jason Schwartzman and this role isn’t going to change my mind. Gaetano was a one-dimensional, buffoon of a character. As for Zelmare...ugh. S1 and especially S2 of Fargo were something special. Quirky and violent but with a heart and with characters that you could root for. S3 and S4 were a disappointment. I think that Noah Hawley has lost his way. Great to see Bokeem Woodbine again. It was the most exciting moment of the season even though I pretty much assumed that Satchel would grow up to be Mike Milligan.

I'm not supporting paparazzi, phone hacking, etc either. I detest that stuff. Alternatively, I believe that it is OK to make movies and TV shows about living people, including the Royal Family.

Agree. There is a lot of opinion that drama = documentary. Morgan is telling the story that he wants to tell. If there are those that feel it is "not complimentary" to the Royal Family, they can make their own show that paints these events differently. There are also a ton of documentaries on Netflix and Prime already in existence. I'm relatively sure that the concerns about the monarchy existed before The Crown began and will endure after it has ended. Is that the most important thing? Why should the Royal Family be considered "hands off" just because they are the Royal Family? Should the PMs also receive the same exception? This is begs a much larger question about the press in general and how they cover celebrities and politicians, etc. The press can be cruel and intrusive in the UK and the US. However, no one - not the Royal Family - should be immune from press coverage simply because of their title, their social position or job.

Agree. My interest in the monarchy is a form of celebrity-watching and the good/bad that comes with it. I have no use for the deference that they expect in some circles or for some of the archaic traditions that they uphold. I would not know every member of the Kennedy or Bush families or any other American political dynasty.

Agree about the US competitive cooking/baking shows. I don't watch any of them. I watch this show precisely because it is soothing and beautiful to look at (the English estates!). It is good for my soul.

I like Laura. Yes, her bakes are often messy but the judges continue to complement her on her flavors. That has value. Regardless, I think that the winner is either Peter or Dave. I am thrilled that we got the show during the pandemic, too. I appreciate the effort made by everyone in the cast and crew for doing what it takes to get it done. I enjoyed the bakes, even the weird ones. And I agree that this seemed to be a kind, supportive groups of bakers. I don't need to see a group of "superstar" bakers; I enjoy their efforts whether good or not-so-good. Matt seemed to help Laura in her worst moment. However, he and Noel annoyed me to no end this season. Noel, in particular, seemed to lose sight of why he is here. His commentary was often intrusive and not related to the baker's situation. Much of it was out of context and over the top. The fact that the heat in the tent continues to disrupt the bakes is disappointing. Yes, I know ALL about why they can't use air conditioning. Hoping they can find a way to solve this issue soon. And Paul's reaction to Dave's cornucopia was priceless.

If even half of the stuff is true...what an awful, entitled little shit. Kicking dogs, swiping horses?

I'm pretty sure that they gave them photos, perhaps just not when and how it was demanded of them. I'm not sure who thinks it was a "gross mistake" but I certainly do not.

Honestly, isn't the insistence on these archaic - and, in some cases, silly - traditions part of the problem with the modern day monarchy? What is a "secret" christening and "secret" godparents? I'm sure Harry and Meghan, the godparents and the other individuals that they wanted to be present at the christening knew where and when it was. That is all that should matter. Agree! One can criticize how H&M may have handled their break from the monarchy (and the family "business") and what their expectations are going forward. However, I cannot criticize his desire to step away from it in an effort to protect her.

Yes! I had a hard time concentrating on their conversation because I was so busy trying to figure out what was on her head. As best as I can tell, it was a hood, rain hat and wool scarf. I can't find an image of it.

They truly did and I’m enjoying every minute of it. I’m rewatching this episode and throwing pillows at the screen during his confrontation with Diana after her trip to NY. Did he really mention HER capacity for self-delusion?! Someone needs to look in the mirror. And Diana supposedly hurt Camilla because she was demonstrably kind to a child in a hospital! He also used every opportunity to question her mental health. Charles is really an insufferable, insecure, self-absorbed fool! I obviously have no idea of how “real” Charles behaved or what he said. I also have no clue what he thinks of this show. However, this characterization is about as unflattering as it gets. Olivia Colman and Tobias Menzies made the most of their final scenes in these roles; they were excellent. My only issue with this episode is making the last scene all about Diana. I guess that means that they have lit the match for what will come in S5.

Agree 100%. I see this complaint so often about movies and TV shows. Morgan didn't claim to be creating a documentary. The Crown is a dramatization - and an interpretation - of these events. He created entertainment and, with the in mind, I accept the show for what it is and enjoy it. And, if I am looking for the "truth" about what actually occurred, there are plenty of books, articles and documentaries available. About HBC's wig/wigs, the one that she wore in "Heredity Principle" was awful.

Why can't both of these things be true? That she was unhappy but still wanted to pursue the fantasy of it. I'm not sure that any 19-year-old could understand how to process this conflict in a clearheaded way. I certainly doubt that I could have at 19 and I was not nearly as naïve and sheltered as Diana was. Perception vs reality is the problem.

Yes - all of this. Showing the Kennedys as bumbling with protocol was a bit silly. That's why we need to remember that this isn't a documentary. Morgan clearly wanted to present the Kennedys in that light whether or not it was entirely factual.

Hmm... IMO, this show has never been about the politics of the UK over the last 50 years. Instead, it has been about how the Queen and the royal family has reacted to the politics of the time and how it has affected the shifting sands under the monarchy itself. Equally, it is about how and if the monarchy can survive. I think that Morgan has achieved a satisfactory balance over the years. It is a dramatization of those events - one man's interpretation - and not a documentary. Yes, he has played with facts and with chronology. He is creating entertainment. With that in mind, I expected to see a LOT of Charles and Diana this season and not because I'm fascinated with the "soap opera" of it all. I wanted to see how he presented Charles. I wanted to see how the family reacted to the drama. I am primarily interested in Morgan's interpretation of these people and these events. Truthfully, Diana had a huge affect on the monarchy and on the public's perception of it. I've seen a ton of documentaries about C&D and the royal family. I also remember these events when they happened. Sure, there has been "fluff" during the four seasons of this show. But we have also gotten episodes like "Vergangenheit" and "Hereditary Principle" which caused me to learn more about these incidents and the royal family itself.

I don’t believe it either. Its an exaggeration coming from women that were resentful of her. THAT was the best moment in that entertaining breakfast scene. First, Phillip’s crack about why the Queen never danced like that for him. (Meanwhile, I’m imagining Olivia Coleman in her frumpy Queen garb jumping around on stage.) Then she shoots back with the “ballerina” comment. Never a dull moment with Phillip. Charles was a complete horror in this episode. Still, the fact that Diana thought that performing on stage would be a great birthday gift for the self-absorbed man that she was married to tells us how little understanding these two had of each other. Neither of them ever developed any insight into what the other wanted or needed. They just kept running down the same destructive path. This season is not doing Charles any favors.

Finally, an episode that shows the true nature of Margaret Thatcher. Her pompous bearing in her conversation with the Queen was infuriating. I wanted to slap her in that stiff, hair-sprayed head. And, of course, the press secretary gets tossed under the bus to protect the sovereign’s poor judgement. Glad to know that he became a best selling author. Nice to see the four adult Windsor kids together and realize that they are a miserable lot. Putting what we currently know about Andrew aside, he really is a spoiled, whiny brat. Hurrah to Charles for calling him “fringe.” I’d love to know what he calls him these days. Hello, Fergie! Welcome to hell!

I was thinking the same thing. The clip-ons were torture...at least for me when I was young and before I got my ears pierced.

Wow! I love HBC and I am glad that this story was revealed thru her eyes. We are getting an "enlightened" Margaret this season. A difficult episode! Like "Vergangenheit," it needed to be told. Loved Margaret's response that not everything can be blamed on the abdication. Here is a link to an article about it in Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queen-elizabeth-secret-cousins-true-story-the-crown I enjoyed seeing the Castle of Mey again. I fell in love with that castle when we were first introduced to it in S1.

Agree about Emma Corrin. Playing Diana effectively is a challenging. However, there is a little too much of the head tilts, shy smile, etc when she is in public. I prefer her "behind the scenes" performance because her expressions of rage and unhappiness do not allow comparisons to the real Diana (because we weren't there). The courtiers, IMO, are not necessarily innocent bystanders in the disagreements among the royal family. Alternatively, they have a job to do, one that they apparently take quite seriously. Was Charles' secretary, Edward Adeane - son of Michael Adeane, according to Wikipedia - out of line in his reprimands to Diana? Maybe. I understand why he said it but I didn't agree with any of it. Lecturing a mother on how to handle her son is not acceptable. This is another situation that could have been avoided. The itinerary and the plans for William should have been discussed upfront. Charles and Diana should have been able to have these discussions in a civil manner. Both of them were completely incapable at getting past their personal unhappiness. I just knew that the scene with the Queen would end as it did. It really is painful to watch.

Yes! The fear of waking up and finding a stranger in your bedroom is very real whether you live in Buckingham Palace or a split level home in suburbia. Kudos to Elizabeth for handling it so well. It’s almost laughable that security failed to detect Fagan on two separate occasions. He seemed to find her bedroom rather easily the first time. Of course, Phillip comments on the cheap wine and the ugly, broken vase. He never misses an opportunity to demonstrate his perceived superiority.

Wow - the holidays with the Windsor kids must be a lot of fun! What an entitled, self-involved bunch. Love watching Olivia Colman. She appears to have settled into the role in S4. (It was a bit of an uneven performance last season but that may have been due largely to the writing.) I love her “graying matron” look and the introspection that she is using to survey those around her, for better or worse. She scolds Charles for his discourse on “straight gardens” while his pregnant wife is in bed watching cartoons. Yet, she doesn’t possess the kindness or compassion to go up and visit her either. The family dynamics are intriguing but incredibly dysfunctional.