nara

It might be an American Sniper-like situation in which the baby (babies, actually, IIRC) that we cast got sick and they ended up using a baby doll. It was so obviously a fake baby that they were laughed at mercilessly for doing that. Perhaps whoever played Joannie in the present was not available so they substituted a random baby because we didn't see the child's face in that scene.

My interpretation: whereas Gabriel's death tore Alison and Cole apart, this tragedy brought Noah and Alison together. It made them forget about their differences and cling to each other. I didn't think Helen was specifically trying to frame Alison, but creating enough doubt about Noah's guilt. She may have assumed that because Alison was not guilty and not there at the time of Scotty's death (to Helen's knowledge) there would not be any real evidence against Alison. Therefore, she could help Noah without really hurting Alison. She may have also been really curious about the paternity question--both from a certain amount of cattiness and from the perspective of hoping that Noah and Alison would break up. We know that, in spite of everything that has happened, she still loves Noah, so I do think that her curiosity is understandable. I don't think they did it just for show. I think it's natural for Margaret, in particular, to take an interest in Luisa, a girl she's probably known since she was born. Helen would likewise have been still living with her parents when Luisa was born, and so has known her all her life too. Also, although I think that they are aware of the class distinctions between the Butlers and their maid, it reminds me of the relationship between the Crawleys of Downton Abbey and their servants--the classes are definitely separate, but there is real affection between them. Lady Mary and Anna, for example, are very close. Now, there is bad blood between Helen and the Lockharts due to Scotty/Whitney, but Cole was very nice to Martin before that all happened. Also, everyone in Montauk seems to be aware of Alison and Cole's tragedy, so perhaps there is some community spirit in celebrating the fact that his life is rebounding. I think that there is some part of Margaret's generosity that is coming from missing having people on whom she can shower her largess. IIRC, she spoiled Whitney with money and other stuff and she was also openhanded with Helen. Helen is finally saying no to stuff and Whitney is off in her own world. So now, she is focusing on her maid. On other stuff, did we see Noah or Helen even react to the sight of Scotty when he arrived at the reception? I feel like they should have had a noticeable, negative reaction to his presence. Also, (4 pages of posts later) I cannot remember why Alison was walking on the road. Isn't she staying right above the Lobster Roll? After dropping that bombshell on Noah, it doesn't seem likely that they would stay in the same room at the End. And if they were, why wouldn't she just drive there with him? Edited for clarity.

In my mind, there is a subtle difference. If it's their real-time perception, it would not be influenced by future events, but a memory can be influenced by later events. For example, once Alison knows that she pushed Scotty in front of a car, it might color her memories of him as him being more threatening, so that his death is more justified.

The recappers were particularly bad this episode. But it's easily solved--I'm going to stop reading their recaps. :)

Although I don't believe the House of the Rising Sun scene unfolded exactly as Alison remembered, I actually think it's realistic that Cole would do nothing while Scotty sang. I have been at a couple of weddings at which someone sang something completely inappropriate and everyone just let the moment pass to avoid a conflict. At least while Scotty was singing, he wasn't getting into a fight or drinking more. It was uncomfortable, but Cole and Scotty beating each other up would have been much worse.

Really excellent episode in my opinion. I know that a lot posters didn't like the confession, but I thought it was quite in keeping with a man who wants to be seen as great and is rather reckless. I do think it would have been better to end the season with him having made up his mind, but the audience not knowing what he decided. Then they could have started the next season with the confession. I am so annoyed with Noah and Helen for driving when they shouldn't have been. Apparently neither of them learns anything from past mistakes--they are perfect for each other. I do like the drunk driving didn't come out of nowhere. We have seen that they have both been reckless in the past. (By the way, does Alison not know how to drive? I don't think we've ever seen her drive--she's always walking, riding a bike, or being driven places.) This is very late to be asking, but do we know if the POVs refer to how they remember events or how they perceive the events at the time? Alison's perception of Scotty's behavior during his (beautiful) song and even by the side of the road was very threatening. If it's a memory, it's possible she remembers him as more threatening than he was (trying to rape her) even if that is not the case. There are many huge discrepancies between Noah's and Alison's versions of the paternity conversation. The one I find interesting is that in his version he was told he might not be the father and is hers she told him that he was not the father.

I really loved this episode, though I initially thought it was slow paced. It made sense that Quinn would not survive everything he faced this season. I will miss the character a lot, but many people had posted that it was ridiculous that he kept surviving...I'm glad they spent their time on this storyline rather than rushing it-- he deserved the focus. The greying of Astrid by her forcing Laura to besmirch that innocent man to save Numa was pretty powerful. She was the only "good"character left. I liked the end to Alison -- 1) she deserved to die for allowing the attack to happen 2) it showed how ruthless Saul could be.

Good points, but there's something about the last minute nature of his testimony that bugs me. And it suddenly occurs to me that Max may not have known of Helen's role in Noah's defense until the trial started. Could he be hurting Noah because he knows that it would hurt Helen?

I really enjoyed this episode because several of the things for which I had been hoping happened. Cole seems genuinely happy and stable--though I agree with some other posters that it's a little jarring to see him so cheerful after seeing him moody for so long. I'm glad that he wanted to take Luisa to see his mother. He needs to make up with his family, IMO. I loved the return of the mothers. I liked that Cherry went out and got a job, rather than moping about her misfortunes. I was hoping that Cole would say that he's proud of her. Yes, it's bad that she's enabling Scotty, but she's like many loved ones of addicts, so although I think she's foolish, I can sympathize with her dilemma. I also liked seeing Helen's mom from Cole's perspective. She seemed genuinely interested in doing something nice for Luisa. Others seem to find that unbelievable, but I think it's normal to take an interest in someone she's seen grow up from a little girl to a smart young woman. I did expect her to thank Cole for pointing a gun at Noah--but that might have been unrealistic. She seems to have grown more than other characters on this show. I hope that we see her and Helen reuinited. Luisa's comment about being glad that the ranch is gone--completely bitchy and uncalled for. I like Luisa's effect on Cole, but I find her obnoxious at times. Loved the Max Noah convo. I had complained a couple episodes ago that Max was becoming boring, and this was a good recovery for his character. (After all, the actor did full frontal nudity for this role--he deserved some good scenes to show off his acting ability!) As a secret Max-Helen shipper even from Season 1 (Melen? Hax?), I was glad to see that his feelings were genuine. I also thought that Noah's reaction was normal too, though irrational. I don't believe he has any interest in getting back together with Helen, but the fact that Helen could have had other options was clearly disconcerting. I wouldn't be surprised if he recasts the entire situation as "I sensed that there was something going on between Helen and Max (even if it wasn't actual infidelity) and that was why I was unhappy and vulnerable to Alison." I am a little surprised if this fight was enough to make Max testify against him--there's got to be more.

I went to your rival school, the Law & Order School of Medicine. ;)

My take is that he was content to be a good man for most of his life. Once he realized he had the potential to be great, based on the response to Descent, he started to obsess about choosing Good vs. Great.

I was hoping that he was just playing bad cop to Dar's good cop.

Maybe teaching a writing seminar? Not likely that he's a full time professor.

I really enjoyed the therapy session. I do think we got to a level of honesty from Noah that we haven't seen before. Now, he doesn't want to share his magical therapist with Alison! I liked the discussion of good men vs. great men. I think that there have been a lot of men who were great in their field or calling, but their focus on achievement made them ignore the needs of their loved ones. They always put themselves and their work first. However, Noah seems to think that this is a causal relationship--that is, being a self-centered jerk leads to great achievements--and I don't buy that. Am I the only one who thought that Scotty looked genuinely pleased to see Joanie (in addition to his delight at having something to hold over Alison)? Made me think for a second he was just happy to have a niece.

Three options : 1) she's read his book and knows she won't get much foreplay from him and wants to get a head start or 2)she's setting up a video camera that she can use to create a sex tape to further his bad boy image, or 3) she has to take birth control measures.

I think they mentioned that the hurricane was a freak incident due to the time of year. Still iffy, but it was enough for me to suspend disbelief.

I saw two possibilities: 1) the hospital is very short-staffed due to the hurricane and so only one person is available to attend to Alison, or 2) Alison, the unreliable narrator we know and love, feels alone, so she only remembers the one hospital worker who makes her feel less alone.

In all fairness, I think it's more likely sloppiness on the part of the show runners, not something that Noah has actually done. As someone else mentioned, Alison/Allison would probably have called it out at some point if it was a real issue in the show. It's more likely a lack of attention to detail by the producers or whoever is responsible for continuity across all media channels.

Daaamn! Noah doesn't even know how to spell her name? Now that's cold! ;)

I wasn't actually referring to her last hookup with Cole. When Alison told Noah she was pregnant, they hadn't seen each other for 6 weeks. Therefore, he had to believe she was at least 6 weeks pregnant. If she is actually 11 or more weeks pregnant at the time, perhaps it puts it into the time frame of when she was still having sex with both Noah and Cole (and Oscar). It would also explain why she looked bigger than normal during her pregnancy.

I actually think the waitress was being genuinely helpful and not snide. Helen did not appear to know much about these dating/hookup apps. She didn't recognize the name OKCupid and didn't seem to realize how popular Tinder is. She also looked very uncomfortable to me about the whole situation. The waitress picked up on that and suggested another site that would be better aligned with Helen's needs and comfort level. Actually, finding someone she likes at Williams was probably the incentive Whitney needs to go to college. Can we have some sort of redemption arc for Max please. He is becoming boring in his boorishness.

I thought it was interesting that they left their normal episode structure and showed 4 POVs and no future. It's more like a typical drama structure, but was necessary to show such separate events. A lot of us were hoping that Helen would get together with the doctor, and I guess we got our wish, but I'm not sure I'm thrilled with how it played out. On one hand, his complete lack of sentimentality might be a good change from Noah's artistic temperament. However, I wasn't impressed by the fact that he was drinking while on call (or was that a joke and he was drinking coke?) and the way he was two-faced with the mother of his patient. Interesting that the doctor lives in Harlem... especially since Helen is reverting to the "wild girl" she was when she and Noah lived there. And he did have a good rapport with the kids... Can anyone tell me if Martin was being a baby about the injections or if they really do hurt that much? I don't have enough experience in that area to judge. I felt really sorry for Alison in this episode, having to go through a dangerous, scary, early delivery on her own. Especially when she said she didn't want the baby--don't know if that was just fear of if that was her real feelings coming out. Either way, it was a nice parallel to Helen's confession that sometimes she hates being a mother. Glad she seemed to bond with the baby in the end. I'm also glad she didn't immediately allow Noah into the room when he finally showed up. However, the salient point is that the baby was "5 weeks early" but sure looked full term... Just when you thought Noah couldn't get worse...Really? cocaine during a business meeting? Also, even if he misplaced his phone, couldn't he have called Alison from someone else's phone to see how she was doing in the hurricane? Not only does he not seem to love her, but he seems completely indifferent to her! I really thought he might drown in the pool, given how high/drunk he was. Did NOT expect the Whitney/Chrissy (from Williams--right?) hook up. I thought at first that it was a drug-fueled dream, but I suspect it was real because Chrissy was with her. I hope that awkward encounter scared him straight. I also hope that it was his drugged up state that caused him to leave Whitney at a party where alcohol and drugs were flowing. BTW, I'm a little concerned that Max was there too. Is it possible that he got the girls invited or brought them with him? It seems too much of a coincidence that Noah, Whitney and Max were all there separately. I'm hoping that Noah's breakdown in the car was the start of his redemption--he needs it! Max's unpleasantness--I wonder if he was really that bad or if Noah is just distancing himself from him emotionally. Cole lost a lot of my sympathy. Everything is about him, including Luisa's infertility. Looks like Scotty was right on that count. Is it possible that Scotty will end up as the better Lockhart? Also, I hated the fact that he burned down Alison's house. However, seeing Gabriel and hearing him seemed to be Cole acknowledging the guilt he feels for not going into the water with his son and "letting" him drown. That's a good sign that maybe he's hit rock bottom and is ready for an upswing, hopefully paralleling what Noah experienced..

Love this comment. Will appropriate it for everyday use.

I think this is fairly normal for creative types. Writers, painters, etc. put part of their soul into their work. A writer like Noah, in particular, laid bare his life in the novel. It's not the same as in most other professions, where you may put a lot of thought, planning, and effort into in--but you're not necessarily putting yourself in it. Most of us have emotional distance from our work. If an artist keeps that same emotional distance for his or her work, the work would probably not be that great. Therefore, any criticism of the work is a criticism of the artist him or herself. Imagine standing naked in public (the closest example I could think of). If people look at you, you'd wonder if they were appreciative or disgusted by you. If they didn't look, you'd wonder if they were rejecting you. Anything small could be perceived as a slight, whether or not it's meant that way. I do think Noah is self-centered, but I think his need for everyone to love his work is not unusual for a first-time-successful writer. After a few successes, he may chill.

I use closed captioning when I cannot quite make out the words. (Especially useful for Outlander, with the Scottish accents!) You are absolutely right on regarding the different perception of events. Passionate debates happen in most of the forums in which I participate because we each see things differently. I made a post upthread and then subsequently realized I had mis-remembered the events--not in a major way, but still enough to prove the point made by the show.