Mathius

It's reported that Rumple dies, and I really believe it now that I see he isn't there at the final battle with Gideon, meaning: 1. He dies before that battle, probably killed by Gideon. 2. He IS Gideon in the final battle, taking Gideon's place so that his son doesn't have to either become a killer or be killed.

Exactly this. The show forgetting that Season 5, where Emma actually fought for Hook, ever happened has assassinated their relationship. Seasons 4, 5, and 6 have all been filler. All real momentum and consistent development for the story and characters ended in Season 3.

Except that Emma is being like Belle, but in reverse. With Belle, she for the longest time gave Rumple unwavering faith and support despite knowing full well what he was like - she was in total denial. With Emma, she knows full well what Hook is like and the level of his passion for her, especially with what they went through in Season 5 (they got confirmed as True Love in the Underworld!), and yet she's in denial about that and instead assumes the worst of him. It should be obvious to her that Hook would never abandon her, just like it should be obvious to Belle that Rumple would betray her.

ABC would be smart to not renew it, since it's so freaking obvious that the already bad ratings will drop lower if they did.

Yeah, JMO accidentally spoiled that when she said filming "the proposal scene" was "fun" at the con, then there was an awkward pause because Colin seemed to realize that she made a mistake, and so he had to cover for her by talking about the proposal scene that had been seen already by saying "I wish Hook had told her what he did." It definitely makes me think that Emma will be asking the proposal next time, which is why it was fun for JMO. Are they going to retcon the Black Fairy into somehow being responsible for every evil on this show? Seriously?

Exactly. Yes, Hook was planning on leaving, but he also always planned on returning. He told Nemo outright that he wasn't the man Emma deserved to marry, and that he "wanted to find that man again" through traveling on the Nautilus for a while and getting lessons on letting go of his past and moving forward from Nemo, who has mastered it already - calling back to Nemo saying the Nautilus is a place where a man can take the time to find himself. He was never going to abandon Emma like she assumes he did (though planning to leave her when he knows Gideon is at large? DUMB.)

Actually, it was brought up once, when Regina told Emma to promise to kill her if need be, like Regina promised when Emma gave her the DO dagger. Other than that, the only Season 5 events mentioned have been Robin's death and Belle's pregnancy, and how they affect Regina and Rumple. Oh yeah, and there was Rumple giving the EQ water from the River of Lost Souls that he brought back with him from the Underworld, but it was never mentioned why everyone had been down in the Underworld to begin with (because Hook had DIED.) It's like they want to render S5 filler in order to elevate the events of S6, when in actuality the endgame S6 seems to be building to would be have been MUCH more natural coming straight off of 5B. Everything from 5x22 and on has been the real filler, and particularly bad filler at that.

Um, what would David's response be? "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"? The refusal to address Graham's death has just gotten worse and worse overtime, hasn't it? This is a new nadir. If there's STILL no official word yet, then chances don't look so good. But I gotta lol at A&E's arrogant presumptuousness.

I don't know, she still doesn't sound like she has full conviction. But maybe that's just JMO trying to elevate awful material.

I say no because the quote asked if Gideon was the Big Bad "of this whole thing", not just the battle. The whole thing seems to have all three generations of Stiltskin as a Big Bad trio, Gideon is just the "final boss" (or is he?)

OK, I know this is a common thing people forget for some reason, but still...Darth Vader had nothing to do with Alderaan's destruction. He was there when it happened, and he held onto Leia and forced her to watch it happen, but otherwise Alderaan's destruction was all on Tarkin. Heck, we even see the scene where he thinks up the idea and Vader clearly doesn't get what he's talking about at first. TARKIN: Perhaps she would respond to an alternative form of persuasion. VADER: What do you mean? TARKIN: I think it is time we demonstrated the full power of this station. Set your course for Alderaan. So yeah, at most Vader was an accessory, but so was everyone on the Death Star so it's nothing unique to him.

No, we saw the Black Fairy and Rumple up to no good back in the filming of Part 1. Also, I think that either Gideon killed Rumple to become the Dark One for the battle, or that the Regina spoiler is true but applied to the wrong character - that maybe it's Rumple who has shapeshifted as Gideon, so that he can either kill Emma in his son's place or be killed in his son's place. @ the Sneak Peek: I am SO glad Snow is along and it's not just shots with Regina, especially since it gives Ginny something funny to work with. But screw Natalie Abrams: "Has Emma already given up on Hook?" Does it look like at ANY point in that video that Emma has given up on Hook? She spends the first half mooning over the Liam ring he gave her, and clearly isn't in to the idea of a drunken Girls Night Out when it's sprung on her. Yeah, sources or I don't believe it.

Zelena with baby Robin is probably her part in the Happy Ending montage. She apparently poofs up a stuffed monkey for the baby to play with.

Zelena with baby Robin. Henry carrying a sword.

We'll have to see. If it's a montage, it doesn't make much sense to have an early morning scene before school at the very end. I'm pretty sure it's going to be early in the montage and will segway into Snow teaching (I recall hearing that Ginny filmed with the schoolkids.)

I agree, especially since she was playing opposite herself in a very emotional sequence, which is really difficult to do convincingly but she did it.

And she even says as much! Right before her redemptive death she outright says "I am a monster....not because of my powers, but because of what I let them turn me into!" Her powers caused the big misunderstanding which made her suffer, but she chose to respond to it by becoming evil. Her backstory was a great explanation for why she became a villain, but Ingrid herself ended up differentiating between an explanation and an excuse. Also, finding his son wasn't even his full goal - it was to find his son and keep his power. Similarly, he claimed the reason he became the Dark One was to protect his son, but the power of the Dark One was clearly a huge draw for him (just watch when he talks about it to Bae in 1x08 after learning about it for the first time)...if he just wanted to save his son, he could have just controlled Zoso to do so, not murder him and take the power for himself. Again, Rumple's background of feeling powerless and put-upon explains this perfectly, but it doesn't excuse it. They seem to believe that because their Evil Queen is able to be sad and cry alot that it means she's misunderstood and not the villainous caricature from the fairy tale and Disney movie...but totally ignore that the kind of evil deeds they have Regina commit (and the sheer amount of them) FAR eclipse the fairy tale and Disney version. It doesn't matter how sad you make her, when she massacres a village, all sympathy is lost. Like Ingrid, it's hard to argue against the fact that Hook was evil when the man himself is constantly admitting that fact and agonizing over it. Zelena clearly has some kind of mental disorder which makes her pitiable, but she's still evil...er, wicked. What we DID get was quite enough to see that he was one evil mofo. According to his backstory in the storybook pages, he murdered his own father just to claim his power and refused Zeus' offer of forgiveness and redemption. From what we see of him, he ruled the Underworld as a tyrant and used Zelena - from the get-go he was manipulating her by playing up Zeus stopping his heart for sympathy, only for it to turn out that with his heart beating again, Hades is even more sadistic, vengeful and power-hungry, and free to use his powers on the living which he does with glee. Yes, he truly fell in love with Zelena, but he was still evil as Hell (pun intended). Exactly. There is no misunderstanding, each and every one of these people are legitimately evil.

Um, like what? As far as I can remember, most of what has been presented as evil was just that: evil.

That's not a big deal. 0.8 to 1.3 isn't a huge increase, earlier episodes in this very season have had bigger. But yeah, the Dark Hook twist killed the DVR audience, apparently. When you look at the numbers, the drop-off is obvious.

Yeah, I can see something along those lines happening.

If she is sure about that and it's true, then we can officially discard that beyond improbable Regina death spoiler.

Called it. We know Snow, Charming, Hook, Rumple and Zelena (I heard news that the Wicked Witch costume was being used) are affected. I would assume Belle would be too. That leaves the question of Emma, Regina and Henry, so I'm wondering if "Scene 53" had something to do with that.

Even those were a step up from having one when neither party actually KNOWS the other, if Brennan Jones' story is to be believed.

Meh, OQ never got a TLK either, nor did Rumbelle ever get a real one. It doesn't really matter to me (and I was fine with TLT.)

OK, I'll admit it: I got chills hearing the old Hook theme play at the end there. It's great to see him back in his element, out on the high seas.