cmr2014

I think that Anna will funnel every cent she gets from JB to Josh's account. He'll tell her something like "it's part of my ministry." Honestly, I think Josh will enjoy prison -- and this isn't just snark. He'll be able to read anything he wants. He can even take classes and get a college degree. He'll be able to watch television and all of the basically benign content that he's been forbidden to see his entire life. There won't be any more "blessings" (at least for a while), and he won't have to pretend to care about Anna or his kids. I think that he's just a genuinely awful person -- a narcissist and a sadist -- who could thrive in that environment. He's also an entitled baby-man and a coward, so it could go the other way, too.

I think that there is a process here where Josh is given a psychiatric examination to determine his likelihood or re-offending. I think that the family is also interviewed to determine if they have been victimized. Those reports are provided to the judge as part of the sentencing recommendation. I could be completely wrong about this -- this information could come from the Law & Order Law School -- but I think that's why it takes so long. I'm sure that there are better informed people on the board who can clarify.

I don't think that this has anything to do with "router settings" or what routers actually do. Routers have been very big in the conspiracy theory world for the past year. The defense is trusting that there is at least one conspiracy theorist on the jury, or at least one person who has vaguely heard someone mention something about "tampering with routers" and is unwilling to convict without "all the router information." I agree that screen shots might have helped, but I don't know if a conspiracy theorist wouldn't have just thought that there was "other information" that wasn't shown.

I'm not throwing shade on Grandpa Duggar (or Grandpa Raurke) specifically, but I think that both JB and J'chelle has some very significant trauma in their youth that is just never talked about. It's possible that the trauma was as insignificant (to me) as what JB has said: Grandpa Duggar didn't love Jesus enough, but I think it was something more. There's a reason that these two people were so vulnerable to a cult and a reason that they desperately seek control over every aspect of life.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that this has even crossed her mind. I think that she (and the Duggars, and a LOT of other fundies) think that Christianity is "under attack" and "Good Christian Men" are being persecuted and framed by the godless hoardes. Experts and evidence and data mean nothing -- it's all "fake news" generated by "haters." Remember, too, that in their world "Josh" didn't do anything, "Satan" did. If Josh downloaded CPA, it's because the devil made him do it. In their world, Josh needs the love and support of a good Christian woman, and lots of prayer -- not jail. Only people who believe in the wrong Jesus belong in jail (and, of course, according to JB, sexual predators should be executed -- just not his son). To some degree, I feel for her. She has to know -- even if it's only deep down inside -- that Josh is an awful person. He's been an awful husband, and an awful father for years, and the only tools that she has in her toolbelt are to be "meeker" and more subservient, more "joyfully available," and to pray more. She's been completely crippled by her upbringing and she's still completely surrounded by people who are going to reinforce those beliefs, not people who are going to encourage her to face reality and begin the long, painful process of extricating herself and her children from this mess.

I think it's very likely -- or almost certain -- that JB has made every effort to prep Jill's testimony. Even if he's been expressly forbidden to do so by the judge, or warned to stay away by the defense lawyers. JB is way too controlling to allow Jill to appear as a witness without scripting her story (as told to him by Jesus). I would also bet that he's dangled a whole host of prizes in front of her: return to unsupervised visits to the TTH, cars, money, etc.

She really should just cut Ivy's hair. She appears to have very fine hair (like Josie), and that's very difficult to care for when it's long. Since Jessa has zero interest in caring for her children's grooming (outside of photo shoots), it would just make sense to keep it short. Obviously, that will never happen, because somehow it would make Jesus cry to see a girl with short hair.

There's also a social aspect to college -- the opportunity to meet new people and have new experiences; to expand one's horizons beyond one's home and community of origin; and to reinvent one's self. None of that is okay in Gothard-world. It would be a non-starter for JB and J'chelle and terrifying for most of their offspring. One thing that JB and J'chelle have been successful in teaching their children is that they are NEVER the students. Joe went to Clown College and "ministered" to other evangelical students. Jill became a "missionary" to educate other Christians on the right Jesus. Jill and Jessa in particular have used their SM platforms to "teach" the rest of us any number of things that they clearly don't know themselves (e.g. cooking and child rearing).

J'chelle does "so much" for them that the least they can do is prepare a Thanksgiving meal for 40 people.

This post also gives us a nice demonstration of Jessa's limited vocabulary. She and Ben didn't smile "cordially" at their son. Not only does she lack the skills necessary to describe a pretty innocuous interaction, but she's not even aware of the issue. She spent time putting this post together and choosing her words, and how she wanted to frame this -- and this was the best she could do. That, and haha, it's hilarious that she's not teaching her child how to behave in public. Oh, haha, that Spurgeon! Haha, maybe he'll grow up into an entitled little princling first-born like his Uncle Josh!

This ridiculous tub of chex mix reminds me of Jill's early cooking posts. They seem to be completely incapable of 1) scaling an recipe to a normal size and 2) understanding why you might want to scale a recipe to a normal size. What does a family of four (with two toddlers no less) need with literally GALLONS of chex mix? I think it might be some sort of baby take-along snack since there appear to be Cheerios in the mix, but the same thing applies. Tupperware does not keep food fresh eternally. Plus, with that much air in the container, it's probably pretty unpleasant eating even now.

Shoes? Really? He needs more shoes? Why is he taking his daughter shopping for men's shoes for her first birthday? They could at least take a picture of them looking at kids' shoes and pretend that something might not be about him.

That's what I think. When I first started reading this speculation, my first thought was "why is everyone so obsessed with outing these women on their pregnancies? Who cares?" Then I realized what a ridiculous thought that was. I still don't think any of them make any effort to conceal their pregnancies and most of them announce when they're only 8 weeks along. I think that Jessa announcing at 4 months was the latest. Still, Lauren might be pregnant and not want to announce too early after her previous miscarriage. Or, if we've all been good, and the stars are finally aligned, maybe they'll stop breathlessly announcing each pregnancy on any and every available medium. Aside from Josh and Anna, and Joe and Kendra, though, I don't think any of them will have an especially large family.

I wouldn't have chosen the first one, either. Do they really have no pictures of their child where she is dressed nicely, and her hair is neatly styled? I will say that she at least looks happy, her clothes are clean, and some attempt has been made with the hair, but really, that's the best they have?

I can't believe that there aren't one or two who say something about the house -- I would imagine that they get blocked pretty quick. I do remember someone very gently admonishing Jill back when Izzy was little. To me, the people who would be drawn to the family are the sort of people who believe that women are most fulfilled by being wives and mothers. They would expect Jessa to photograph clean, happy children, and an immaculate house. I don't get why she's given a pass on this. Her kids are, arguably, better looking than Jill's and people are more prone to feel positive things about attractive people. On the other hand Jill's kids are clean and they radiate happiness in the photos she shares. Jessa's kids look confused, tired, and bored and she regularly shows them against the backdrop of her sad, filthy house foraging for food or falling asleep where they stand. Is the fact that they're holding a Bible really enough to offset everything else for these humpers?

Honestly, I see no difference between this and being an obsessive gamer. Ben is spending all of his time in an imaginary world where only he knows the answers to the riddles. He's hanging out with a small group of guys who share his interest and are willing to engage in endless pointless debate about sprinkling vs dunking instead of endless pointless debate about the best route to level 6. He isn't providing for his children; his relationship with his wife is in the toilet. We talked a lot about the "wake-up call" that these people would get when the show ended. Not the alarm is ringing -- loudly -- and Ben is spending his time locked in the basement with all his buddies playing "Who's God's Best Friend!"

I think both Jeremy and Ben have a very unrealistic idea of the modern religious landscape (I could be 100% wrong because I'm hardly immersed in this world). They are both boring public speakers who think that they are deep thinkers. They're also dull, dogmatic Calvinists who think that people want to hear the minutiae of their personal parsing of Bible passages. Prosperity gospel is hot. It makes rich people feel good about being rich, and gives poor people inspiration that they, too, can become rich through prayer. Generic, non-denominational churches are also popular. They're comfortable and allow people to be "Christians" without wading into dogmatic particulars. I know others on this board have said that Calvinism is hot right now in Baptist circles, and I'll have to take their word for it. From my perspective, though, if you're spending all of your time with the Duggars, or at IBLP events, or the "conferences" that Jeremy attends, you might think that EVERYONE is interested in evangelical doctrine where the reality is that not many people are, and those numbers are dropping every year.

I think that this is pretty spot-on. When I was thinking about my reply (above), the word "yokel" popped into my head and I felt like Jeremy's IG is supposed to make sure that we know that he's no "yokel." I was thinking about it from the point of view of "how does Jeremy think this is going to help him get a job," and that was probably the wrong POV to take. Your POV that he's doing this at the behest of MacArthur makes much more sense. MacArthur is marketing his church, and Jeremy is doing the SM work to show that MacArthur's people dress well, and play golf, and go to the theater. If you're rich and white, Look! here's a church for you! No yokels here!

I agree. I think he's completely delusional. To be the pastor of a successful mega-church, he would need charisma and really electrifying speaking ability. To put it kindly, he doesn't have either. Getting all those bodies into seats requires offering a message that people want to hear. Prosperity gospel is extremely positive. I may not like it, but millions of people desperately want to believe that God WANTS them to have a motor boat. Calvinism is a tough sell to a modern audience, and Jeremy adds nothing to make it more inviting. Running a mega-church is business. It's not "pass around the basket" and the occasional bake sale. All kinds of marketing and merchandising is necessary to keep the doors open. Jeremy's bizarre forays into candle sales and cooking blogs suggest that he isn't a natural businessman of any kind. The evangelical market is shrinking and there are plenty of people already in the mega-church business, and plenty more knocking at the door. There isn't a lot of room here, and a poseur like Jeremy isn't going to make the cut.

I kind of think that this is the point. Despite the fact that they're not Prosperity Gospel, everything about them absolutely sings "prosperity gospel." I think he's trying to project the image of the man he wants to become -- the successful, affluent leader of a prosperous mega-church. He wants people to believe that he's a Biblical scholar and a serious thinker, so he takes pictures of books. I don't know that it even occurs to him to read the books -- he's creating an image. He wants people to believe that he's a "good Christian" so there are photos of him with his lovely wife and daughters, and he makes the appropriate 1950's comments about his "better half." He takes the photos of himself with the food and the new kicks to show that he's got his finger on the pulse of the younger generation. I'm sure that MacArthur thinks that "all the kids" take pictures of food all the time. I don't think he thinks at all about positioning himself to get a job in the future, I don't think he expects to need a job. I think he expects that he will be dropped into a role as a senior pastor at a mega-church once he's completed his "studies" with virtually no effort on his part beyond some "networking." He's well into his thirties now. I think that if "working" or "studying" or "thinking" or "helping others" were things that he wanted to do, he would have done them by now.

If I was going to lay this on anyone, it would be Ben's dad. Ben was 17 and stalking pretty girl that he'd seen on television. Instead of sitting down with his son and talking about projecting his fantasies onto someone else, he drove his son 3 hours each way to the Duggar's "church." Instead of encouraging his son to finish his education and take things slowly, he encourage a "courtship." Then, instead of acknowledging their incompatibility, he pressed hard for an engagement. I don't know that Ben is actually a "layabout." He spent years finishing school online and working at dumb jobs at "Duggar Enterprises" because JB didn't want him around other people on a college campus or working for people outside of his "Umbrella of Authority." I think that taken a job outside of "Duggar Enterprises" would be a BIG DEAL and would cause a rift with JB and potential loss of their home and vehicle. If I were him, I would step out for a quart of milk and just never come back . . .

I don't think he thought that far ahead at all -- he was a teenager and they aren't know for their long-term planning. That's one of the reasons that most parents discourage them from getting married and making babies. Ben really seemed to have some ambition and drive in the early days of their marriage, but there haven't been any real signs of that more recently. I think you could be right that Jessa is absolutely adamant: we live in Springdale, AR and you work for my dad -- full stop. I also think that the world isn't what Ben thought it was seven years ago. Evangelical Christianity is losing members -- especially young people -- very rapidly. The opportunities for young pastors -- especially those with extremely rigid beliefs in a very particular segment of evangelical ideology -- are probably not that plentiful. I think that it might be difficult for him to find any role, even an assistant pastor or youth pastor role in a church that matched up with his dogma. Right now I think he's looking at a future with a wife he doesn't like very much, more kids than he can count, an inability to realize his ambitions, and the very real possibility that he will have to work for his FIL indefinitely.

They really don't seem to see this as an option. Just because J'chelle "doesn't have a heart for children," they didn't see this as -- even remotely -- a sign that they shouldn't have more children. Jill, Jessa, and Joy have all had significant issues with their pregnancies, but they don't seem to see that as a sign to limit their family size. These are people who see "signs from God" in every imaginable place and situation, but don't see big flashing lights, and fog horns, and red flags when they appear in the path of endless procreation.

I think that this is a worst case scenario here. Jill was beginning to get her life together. She's been in therapy and she seems happier and her relationship with Derick seems much more stable than it was a couple of years ago. She seems less overwhelmed by parenthood and has been engaged with her children in appropriate ways. Now, after losing a pregnancy, she's getting a ton of attention, and she's glowing. I think that this is absolutely what Jill and Jessa expected when they had kids -- adulation, prizes (flowers, coffee and gifts), prepared meals, house cleaning, etc. I see this as a real opportunity for regression for Jill, and really hope that's not the case.

I hope this is the case. I know that it's pointless, but I really wish they would all stop having kids. Jill and Derick finally seem to be in a good place. Jill seems to be able to manage her two boys -- but just barely. A baby in that household would be pandemonium. Aside from the obvious, Josh and Anna have more than enough children. I don't think Josh wanted any, but he did say something once about being okay with three, and I think that would have been more than enough (knowing what we know now, zero would have been a better number). JD and Abbie have a cute little girl and seem genuinely happy together. Abbie's morning sickness issues aren't trivial and there's no reason for her to put herself through that because JB wants x number of grandchildren. Jessa and Ben have more children already than they can fit into that house, and no income. It might be a good idea to just stop now. Jinger and Jeremy don't need any more kids. Jeremy can't handle the spotlight being taken off him. Having a lot of kids could affect Jinger's figure, and I don't think that Jeremy would be okay with that AT ALL. And, of course, Jeremy has no visible means of support. Joe and Kendra seem happy, but they're so young. Kendra is going to wake up one day with a house stuffed with kids and a LOT less energy than she has now, and it's going to be miserable for everyone involved. Josiah and Lauren don't seem to like each other all that much, and there's no reason to have multiple kids when the marriage eventually ends. Joy and Austin seem fine. They seem to manage the two kids okay, and Austin appears capable of supporting the family. They have two kids, though, and there's nothing about them that suggests they want a lot of kids or would be able to handle them other than some belief that that's what Jesus wants.