myril

People leave a lot more traces, not just fingerprints, but hair, skin particles, fibres, footprints, but right, fingerprints are probably the easiest to find and to track trace. And hopefully Nomi had planned to hack any cams around, just in case. ;-)

Of course Metzger was evil, we know that he had no good intentions. But that he played the system was not all forced IMO. Normally you have to give informed consent to such a major surgery - assuming that you're competent to understand the nature and the consequences of what's going on. But that was the point, Metzger declared that Nomi was not competent anymore and not able to make reasoned decisions because of what was happening to her brain. We know he lied about it, but if he was deemed a specialist for these specific brain changes, and seemed he was, who would argue. Think he was a regular at the hospital, so the nurses assumed he knew what he was doing, and the family, Nomi's mom was easy to convince, she wanted to believe that there was something wrong with the brain, it gave her finally an explanation why her beloved "son" was acting so strange all over the years. Metzger made it sound like it was getting urgent, that the mass was growing fast and there was no time to lose or nonreversible damage would be done and Nomi die in a few months, he made it sound like an emergency. So Nomi's mom, after Metzger did the paperwork to declare Nomi as incompetent to make decision, made the decision and agreed to the surgery. Calling a lawyer and media and saving the day and Nomi in no time by that would have been as much the TV way in my opinion. It seems more realistic to us based on how we think things normally in real life work, but this is no normal real life situation.

Don't quite agree with that. It's not that hard, it's like writing for any other character. What might be hard is to make their bisexuality or pansexuality visible to the audience. Think many might find it harder to write about it because many people have a hard time to wrap their heads around it anyway. Thing is in real life people identify themselves as bisexual because they know they are attracted to more than one gender, but that doesn't always mean they've dated or been in any relationship with people of more than one gender. Even if fictional characters though are shown in relationships with people of different gender, plenty of people will do the same that happens in real life to bisexuals: It's assumed it's just a phase, or a tease, the person is called one week straight the other week gay/lesbian - and no ones cares to ask the person themselves to clear it up, and even if they do often enough they don't accept your answer. Admittedly in writing often is said, show don't tell, so that makes that a bit of a challenge. And, well, while I think it is save to assume Amanita might not be dating guys, and seems to define herself as lesbian, I think she could be quite well seen as acting pansexual. While I and many define bisexual as attracted romantically and/or physically to more than one gender, I know some people see it a bit narrower and the term is criticised for being too stuck in the binaries. So some identify as pansexual, indicating that their attraction is not bound to any binary model, but including attraction to people not fitting into it, transgender, nonbinary and more. Remember the flashback in the first episode to Nominita's first pride together? One of Amanita's friends is reacting quite strongly and hostile to Nomi as being what she perceives as no "real" woman. Sadly these kind of distinctions and discriminations do happen. Amanita takes Nomi the way she is. She is acting pansexual. It's not always the writing, I think it's as much our perception.

Considering numbers and statistics, if the cluster always had been what they are are now, sensates born in the same minute, I do wonder, how big clusters were in the past, or usually are. Estimates are that around AD world population was about 300 million, at beginning of 19th century 1 billion and now we're at about 7 billion. Something makes me think that around AD sensates already were more of a minority. Of course that is assuming that the fictional universe of Sense8 shares most of our history, just that there had been sensates. What I got from what Jonas said was that sensate maybe always existed, so are no recent mutation, maybe the beginning or maybe not. There is a chance that senates and non-sensates always coexisted, and even that sensates could have been always a minority, as well they might have been the majority and could still even be, just that most never learned about it. Non-sensates and sensates have more or less coexisted over thousands of years by now. Jonas is making assumptions, but he doesn't know. We know more or less who he means with "us" (sensates) - but who is them? Those capable of feeling nothing? But it's not like humans even if not sensate connected feel nothing, or is everyone with just a touch of empathy a potential sensate or is there something like half-sensates? And how much does some like Whispers feel, he can connect though, what does that make him? Another question: How diverse are clusters? Isn't it possible that clusters exist with a lot less diversity than we have here? What decides that?

I think Jonas was idealizing in his speech. You might hesitate to kill those you're connected with, find it harder eventually to kill anyone if you gone through the experience of pain and loss through other before, but I wouldn't want to get in the way of a cluster when all have been triggered at the same time to feel rage. Instead of an orgy of love we might get an orgy of hate. It might be a good thing, that the sensates aren't connected in a cluster way from birth on. It's hard enough to sort out feelings and identity on your own, think it's hard enough to handle to be connected and confronted with memories, thoughts, feelings, impressions even when you've sorted yourself out and have developed a sense of self. Picture them going together through puberty. For a few it might work well, for a few eventually turn things better, but guess for many that would be too much of a mess to take.

It really was a nice car. ;-)

While we might look at cemeteries more as places of morning and death, they can be as well seen as place of connecting with ancestors, family, evoking the idea of continuity and reassuring tradition. In Sun's case both is possible, a hint of coming isolation as much as her life centering around family and family tradition. Wolfgang was born into water - and he shows some liking for swimming later. But thinking a step further : Water means life, it stands for purity, cleansing, renewal, rebirth, transformation, water is essential for life but also can be violent, destructive, deathly. Some people noticed, that it was heavily raining in Kala's birth scene. Aside from the obvious conclusion, Wolfgang and Kala meant for each other (if you want to see it that way), can take it as well as them being these two sides of water. Capheus - his birth scene made me think of earth as symbolic element, mostly because of the colors, down to earth, stability, steadfast, the classical element representing motherhood, caring. But as well found it noticable how bare the place was, the hut, the had pretty much only each other, with a little help. Riley's father didn't just play music to her, he did so over phone. Music creating a connection over distance. Additionally interesting that her father was an important part of the birth scene, as was Will's father, while there were no men present in the case of Wolfgang, Capheus, Sun and Kala. Lito was kinda born into a soap opera, with his family mingling excitement about the fictional story with the excitement of his birth. His father was there by the way.

I disagree, to me it is a story on it's own. Questioning your identity and sanity can be a very real struggle, even more so when you see strange things, are told you're hallucinating and that there is something wrong with your brain by a doctor. Believable and relatable for me. Nomi's life was the first to get pretty much messed up by the rebirth as sensate, so we didn't get to see as much day-to-day of her so far life. They had to start with someone. I hadn't the impression that we learned much about the day-to-day life of the others though either, they are all put into some sort of crisis situation, which are more or less unrelated to the sensate story (in season 1, there could be more to them). Nomi is the first to encounter threats coming with being a sensate, with her and Will the sensate story is moved along. Right, not setting up much of a story for her alone. There is no discovering a security breach in a computer-system of one her clients to put her into a difficult or dangereous situation, there is no relationship crisis with her girlfriend because of family disapproving, or whatever. Nomi is shown having had finally a good life and relationship when the sensate crap hits her, while the others seem to have life dramas happening even without that. Exception maybe Will.

I know, difficult to explain, and of course it is subjective. And interesting to learn more about it, thanks. Wouldn't this have made it even so much more about Nomi being a transgender woman, and make her and Amanita and their relationship a special thing, not because it's a great relationship, but one between two women? That Nomi is a transgender woman was not the reason she was in the hospital, it was at best complicating things further, probably making it easier for Metzger to get the consent from the family he needed. You're right by the way, Helena Dax, Nomi should have taken precautions and named Amanita has her health care proxy, even more seeing her "nice" family, but how many people have filled an advanced directive? As far as we know the sensates are age end 20s / early 30s - how many people at that age think of that? Have you filled one? I find it a little puzzling, that on one side you have a harder time to warm up with Nomi and her story because of it being perceived as more or less preachy, like being taught a lesson, being too much about her being transgender and lesbian, neglecting to develop the character beyond that, but at the same time you suggest things like the alleged strong LGBTQI community in San Francisco should have been called to the rescue by Amanita, that Amanita should have talked to media, and I guess, to make a big buzz about a transgender woman being mistreated, although what happened to Nomi was not about her being transgender and in a relationship with a woman. As PR person and political activist could say, who cares, make a case, make noise, get attention, force whoever is trying to do whatever out into the light by all means. But would that have helped Nomi in her situation? And was the story with Nomi threatened to be lobotomized about transgender and LGBTQI issues at all? Admittedly the story was clunky at that point with how fast Metzger got consent, depriving Nomi of her right of decision, and the rush for surgery - ignoring likely how much time some procedures actually might take, artistic license plenty of thrillers suffer from. Maybe it was not so clever to make Nomi the character introducing a part of what threats the 8 are facing, because the mistreatment of transgender people and the mistreatment of sensates is too much of a parallel, it was to easy to mistake here one for the other. It seems to me some see too much of transgender issues here although it is about the sensates. Being transgender is a part of Nomi, and IMO we learned a lot about how she ticks with it. It gives her experience in living in a society where still at least some people are rejecting you, questioning you, denying you your identity, forcing you to hide, to lie and pretend, a society trying to cure you, an experience that might be helpful for the cluster to handle what they as sensates are facing now without losing themselves. Questions of identity and integrity are as I see it a general theme in Sense8, questions of gender and sexual identity are maybe an obvious example used to reflect on it. Think Nomi being transgender had to be addressed maybe slightly more, because for a lot of people transgender experience is not something they know much about or have seen much about in movie or TV. That plenty of people know rather little about transgender people is something I see in reactions and questions people do ask online about the character of Nomi or about Jamie Clayton. Right now there seems to be an explosion of visibility for transgender, but that is pretty recent, many people still have little knowledge, many people have a lot of prejudices and only claimed knowledge. As I see it on Sense8 it's though not about showing that transgender people suffer a lot of discrimination, but it was about what makes Nomi the person she is at this moment we meet her, and she happens to be a transgender woman enjoying a stable relationship and life against many odds. As Sun happens to be a woman in a culture conditioned by patriarchal ideals, bottling up her emotions and complying for the sake of her family, as Wolfgang happens to be a man stuck in criminal family tradition and with the ghost of a father who cherished a destructive image of masculinity, or as Capheus is a caring son struggling to make ends meet and get the medication his mother needs by pretty much all means, while he always gets between the frontlines. Maybe it would have been better to put Will into the position of being nearly lobotomized instead of Nomi. Could have worked, he was in therapy as kid because of the Sarah Patrell thing, acted quite crazy, had an accident, and he came close to be kept in hospital. Then Nomi could have been the one to get him out with her hacking skills and some old connections or so. But then we wouldn't have gotten the portrait of the amazing relationship of Amanita and Nomi, the strength a well working relationship can offer (that it's a lesbian one is not important on the show, only in our reception), how Nomi can build on it while doubting herself, how it helps her to cope with the sensations of being a sensate and finding answers, answers helping her and the cluster. Nomi being supported by Amanita while hacking to free Will, Amanita excited to go on some stupid Nancy Drew adventure for Will - don't quite see that having the appeal. As I have doubts that Will's and Riley's relationship would have worked as well as it did in the story as it is. Being someone a bit interested in media studies I find it interesting to see how Nomi and what is told about her is perceived. While I think the transgender aspect of the character is in the story telling of the show just an aspect of the character, not her story and sure not the story of the show, it looks like we as audience struggled at least at the beginning to let go of her being a transgender character, so it interferes with the story told, we see it as a story about transgender issues while it's not. Like a unicorn will always be identified as unicorn and not just as another animal used for riding. It think that goes as much for those craving for more and better transgender representation as for those not concerned with it. Agreed, it had not so much to do with Nomi, but it was placed quite well IMO and with some thought in the context of Pride celebrations. Capheus' mother though has as far as we know AIDS, so to me this performance reminding of how in the U.S. and other Western countries the reaction to HIV/AIDS were in the 80s was not there with no reason, not some redundant extra social issue message. To some by now it is likely more a history lesson, I was a teenager in the 80s and the panicky reactions and particular the discrimination of gays was one defining moment in building my own (political) views on this world. The situation by now is a different one, as the situation in African nations is a very different one. While in the U.S. or Europe HIV/AIDS has lost most of its menace, in some African nations HIV/AIDS became epidemic and was not a gay issue. The performance was a reminder, how HIV/AIDS had been seen in Western countries, as much as it probably is meant to remind, how we have reacted to what we perceived as epidemic health threats, to give a hunch on how maybe BPO manages to get the funding and support they seem to get. Additionally, particular in context of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in African nations there is some discussion about business practice of big pharmacy companies, making access for lifesaving drugs a costly thing, rather unavailable in places with high rate of poverty and no health insurance, blocking attempts to produce generic drugs. Some people already speculate about connection with Capheus' mother having AIDS, he getting on the street only drugs with no to little effect, Kala working for a pharmacy company, Sun's family financially involved with one, possible even a connection with the diamonds Wolfgang stole, which came from Mumbai, and maybe even some connection with drug dealer Nyx in London, and then there is BPO being a dubious company studying as they say genetic mutations in humans, possible arguing for medical reasons and better health care, financed by WHO among others, having some influence on U.S. agencies - and the performance about reactions to HIV/AIDS in the 80s can look like an artistic and historical prelude to a bigger story. And what a contrast, here the artistic memorial to the dead of the past, there the daily struggle to stay alive with AIDS. Doings things - that seems to be a general thing for a lot of people. You have to kick butts, punch faces, turn cars into scrap, hack computers, shot guns or rockets, build bombs to have a chance to be awesome. Surviving a psychologically toxic and hostile environment, staying rather sane and finding your identity and a great relationship regardless is not enough, neither is to keep on going despite depression and overwhelming feelings of loss pushing or pulling you down. Nor is trying to joggle quite different expectations family, society, work can pose. Not that kick-butt, that stuff is more for chicken and soap drama is it, not so scifi action story worthy. ;-)

I think this gives a good explanation, why they use English on the show: Handling foreign languages and dialects on Sense8, Multilingual shows or films can work, although it can be tough to follow a number of languages via subtitles. Aside some possible production challenges (the writers are not multilingual, rewrites on set, while filming happen, so would need translators at hand any time, the actors would have to learn to notice their cue in different languages), it makes for Sense8 even some sense. As I see it, we as audience are not outside observer of the events but seeing the story from the point of view of the characters. That's why at the beginning the story seems quite messy, the characters don't know what's going on, neither do we. Unfortunately we don't have sensate abilities in real life or something like a babelfish in our ears, so we don't automatically understand other languages unless we learned them over some time. To emulate the sensate experience it makes sense to stick to one language, and seeing that the writers are native English speakers, and that English is a language spoken and used globally, it makes sense to use English (there are though dubbed version available in German, French, Spanish, but then all is dubbed). Add that the show is with following 8 main characters already quite complex, doubt that a multilingual production would have done good for the story telling nor for audience reception. They established in the first episodes, that the sensates are speaking in their own languages, but are able to understand each other and speak the languages of the other with ease the more they became connected.

Taking discussion to character thread. http://forums.previously.tv/topic/28472-nomi-marks-hactivist-extraordinaire/?p=1424859 Taking discussion to character thread. http://forums.previously.tv/topic/30605-riley-blue-aligning-dj/?p=1424855

from episode 1.12 thread Admittedly I'm biased when it comes to Nomi, because she is the character I find most relatable (genderfluid, nonconforming myself, but very different story). I find it interesting though that a lot of people seem to have a problem with her in the first episodes, and wonder why. So I am now asking, is there something more specific you find meh about Nomi in the first episodes? I know first impressions are something we often enough just have and barely think about it to explain. But was it the character, the acting, the story, more a general impression, something specific, a mix of these things? I don't want to judge, just understand better. Welcome others to bring in their thoughts here.

Place to discuss Riley Blue, née Gunnarsdóttir. picking up from episode 1.12 thread Riley is a character some people find too passive and less favorable as such, you're not alone. From what I observe online she's one of the lesser liked characters of the eight, mostly liked for being one part of Wiley. Aside that I disagree with the assessment of Riley being too passive, but I might have simply a different definition of passive, why is it that being seen as passive, or too passive is something that obviously is making a character not so interesting or less favorable? IMO Riley is a very strong character, and especially interesting because she is not the usual run around-action-kick-butts-type of protagonist. She's observant, open minded, perceptive, thoughtful, maybe a tad too thoughtful for her own good, unintrusive - things seen as traits of introverts. She and Capheus share to be deeply immersed with emotions, Capheus more the sunny, bright smiling day side of it, while Riley is the blue(s), the moon, the night side of it. I don't think it's any random that the drug guy going after her is called Nyx, the name of the Greek goddess of night. Moon, night, motherhood, femininity - all often associated with each other and with being passive, whatever is defined in detail as passive. Riley Blue she is called, shown with blue in her hair. Makes me think of the blue flower - a symbol for inspiration, desire, love, reaching for the unreachable, mysterious and romantic. The blue flower connects human, spirit and nature and through that connection the self finds its meaning and identity. A rather rational Humanism linking with the irrational, with emotions (German romanticism). In K. Dick's A Scanner Darkly blue flowers are the source for Substance D, mors ontologica, a drug blocking connections in the brain, splitting personality. edit: Scanner Darkly was made into film with Keanu Reeves, not by The Wachowskis though but by Richard Linklater, released 2006. There might be a lot more to Riley than perceived on first view and thoughts. Kinda ironic that one eventually have to do some thinking to see more layers to Riley Blue, who is so much about emotions.

Which little girl do you mean, the one Will had a connection with, a case his father had worked on, name Sarah Patrell? What we get to see is that Whispers likely got his hands on her. Don't think that Wolfgang's father had anything to do with that, the family seemed to be more into the thieving business than human trafficking. Not that one excludes the other, I just hadn't the impression they were into it. And I wouldn't underestimate what constant humiliation and brutalization can do to a child's psyche, it doesn't always have to be sexual abuse. Wolfgang's father had a very toxic image of masculinity, of what makes a man a man (probably could fraternize with Nomi's father in this, just different social class). For a boy with some sensitivity, and I think that is something all sensates have, a heightened sensitivity, that can be destructive. Remember the scene with Wolfgang as boy on stage, meant to give a performance as soloist singer with orchestra, and his father laughing at him? Maybe it was at some point Wolfgang's dream to become a singer, something that didn't fit into the criminal and masculine pride his father cherished. I agree, there is more to Wolfgang's story. Some are speculating that something happened to his mother, and he blamed his father for it. Threatening or hurting people Wolfgang loves seems to be a much stronger motivator for Wolfgang's actions than whatever happened and happens with him. That's what Wolfgang expressed clearly to Kala.

You might be surprised what people do a times to create a fictional identity for whatever reason, to become a different person online, creating and feeding fake accounts over long time. Ever heard the term "catfish"? Had that some years ago on a tv show forum, had to deal with it as moderator. It's not that hard though to create such a fake, if you keep the fake biography and life somewhat close to your real life. Find some pictures to use, otherwise explain that you're a bit shy to put pics of yourself online for job reasons or because of some nasty ex friend(s) or even in general, post some location and activity pictures not showing your face. Socialmedia and all kind of sides and apps make it rather easy for everbody to keep up to date with thing like weather , events even in other places. When I worked in Customer Care I made it a habit to keep up to date of what was going on all over the country just for chitchat, people love when you connect with them on a somewhat personal level (unless they're super angry). Reasons why people create (elaborated) fakes can differ, attention seeking, power plays, just because they can, trolling, bullying, stupid fun. Nothing funny about that IMO, it's just sad.

Co-creator J. Michael Straczynski said on the TCA press tour panel, that "talks have been optimistic". http://deadline.com/2015/07/sense-8-netflix-tca-1201486424/

Maybe we get news tomorrow. It's TCA summer press tour time and Netflix will present its program there on July 28. Brian J. Smith (Will) tweeted about going to LA for the Netflix panel there, and seems like J. Michael Straczynski will be there too. https://twitter.com/BrianJacobSmith/status/625477211643072512 https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/625495226413551616

Just stumbled upon this bit of fandom and fandom wars history. http://meeedeee.tumblr.com/post/124336465771/dedication-inside-the-blakes-7-fanzine-the Older than the world wide web. OUaT fandom is not that special.

You might be watching the right show. It is one that takes time to breath and explore and doesn't rush to give answer. The story telling on this show can be quit dense and complex, and it's easy to miss things on first sight. Not a show to watch casually maybe. But it's a great show. There is a lot in the story and the characters, a great cast, and cinematography and music make it a treat. Hope you will enjoy all of season 1.

Supernatural, yes, the dramas, and dramas about dramas. What a fandom. And OUaT. Just read something about terrorism in a headline on Tumblr. Pardon me? Some people should look up the meaning and context of words they use. It's not just overdramatizing and sensationalizing, their use of words is ridiculing situations those words are right to use for. It starts to remind me a bit of gamergate. Oncergate. That whole thing stinks like troll, not just smells, it stinks. And I mean troll, not bad apple, not hater, not some overly fanatical fans, but troll, someone who cares not the least bit about the fandom but has a feast stirring folks up. Well, bon appetit!

Using this quote just as an example. This is not against the poster, it concern all. A suggestion. I am annoyed how a very few are using LGBTQQI and feminist ideas and issues in this fandom. But please, do yourself and others a favor, make it easy and take the question about sexual orientation of the characters out of the discussion. There is so much more between gay/lesbian and heterosexual, that arguments like "they've only been with men so far" or "are with men right now" or "never showed interest" always fall short and get you nowhere. If such arguments, that they are straight in your opinion, are an important and at worst even your main point against SQ, then I think you should reflect, if maybe you have a bias if it comes to sexual orientations. No, to make that clear before everyone reads something else into what I am writing here, and gets all heated up, I am not calling any of you homophobic with this. But I do see frequently a bias in question of sexual orientation here and in other places. Just leave it out, because it doesn't matter, or it shouldn't. It will be hard eventually not to drop it sometimes in between, that you yourself believe that because characters like Regina and Emma haven't shown any interest in anything but male lovers so far they can't be anything but straight, but try it. Regina and Emma as couple have plenty and more important other issues. You make it rather easy for them to shout "issue" claiming whatever phoby at all times. And an advice. Don't make it that much about canon or non-canon either. Just don't fuel the fire. Unless you want the heat. Don't make it about what some people say but how they say it because that should be the issue. People can have different views on and interpretations of things, can be quite passionate or in our eyes somewhat crazy, we get it sometimes, some we find utterly not understandable, but that is life. If they threaten, offend, bully though - call that out. Regardless what and who it is about. This is not the first fandom having big shipping issues and particular when it involves questions of representation of LGBTQQI (and I know usenet times as well, internet dinosaur so to speak, have different experience than others here). But there is a way to tone it down at least in some matters.

I am so tired of this anonymity bashing. If that were the big one problem, then middle ages should have been paradise of humanity and schoolyards friendly save zones. What BS. It's the view of privileged people living privileged secure lives in comfort, enjoying freedom of democratic countries. It's so not about some problems with fraud crimes or marketers gathering data. Killing anonymity will hurt more victims of real life bullying, harassment and oppression and persecution than it ever will stop online bullies. You don't kill herd mentality that way. As long as bullies feel like they're getting some applause for their crap and threats and harassing people, and believe even their views and behavior is in some warped way justifiable, they will do that. It might take a few days to track some bullies down who know to hide tracks online, but use of pseudonyms and anonymity is not the problem. What should kill anonymity, that people get only access to internet and any social site if they show their ID an get verified with finger or voice prints? Every time they access, because otherwise you will never be sure if it really the person. You really think that the worst of the worst can't hack it? Populist crap solutions solving nothing but causing more problems. edit: And most fandom bullies are rather easy to track down, no real troll material, just people behaving badly.

A summary of the Comic Con panel with J. Michael Straczynski and the full audio of it: http://www.awardscircuit.com/2015/07/10/comic-con-2015-sense8/

The book is "Nancy's Mysterious Letter", first published in 1932, here shown with the cover from 1968. Amanita is some Nancy Drew fangirl aside of being into costumes. Someone noticed that "WWNDD" (as in What Would Nancy Drew Do?) was on the wall in the background in the bathroom, the first time we see Nomi and Amanita in episode 1.

A C-section doesn't make a bad mother nor is it prove of being a bad mother. We don't know if that was a C-section out of medical necessity or decision by the doctors or a caesarean delivery on maternal request. Maybe it was implied that we should think the later, but then that works because they've already established that Nomi's mother is not a sympathetic person and likes to take control. It doesn't surprise, that Nomi's birth was the most clinical one of the 8, because we already think, her mother has no good relation with her. Nomi's and Wolfgang's were the two births in hospital, Riley, Kala, Capheus and Lito were home birth, Will's happened on the way in his dad's police car, and Sun's was a bit of a surprise, happened on a cemetry. Could be all random, or not.