Pogojoco

I think Lady Dustin, who we get that "ambition" stuff from, is biased. I mean, she's holding Ned Stark's bones hostage. I just like Stefan Sasse's theory about it.

There is a effin' lot of crazy running around. I honestly don't think the marriage was annulled though. Dorne is a much greater part of the story and wasn't totally botched like it was in the show. Also, I'm not sure show only people realize that Targs were polygamists- that Aegon the Conqueror had two sister/wives who also had dragons. And that it was the three of them together that made it happen. Dorne is a much richer and more interesting place. Pedro Pascal captured it, but the rest sucked.

Sure, all of that. But Rickard's ambitions were more along the lines of marrying his kids to families in the south, not poisoning infants. If Eliya is worried about the end of the world and the need for the three headed dragon or whatever, why would she care about her children's succession lines? Maybe she doesn't want her children on the Iron Throne in the first place. I dunno, but maybe. If they sent word to Winterfell that got sabotaged, maybe messages to Dragonstone did, too. The whole thing is that no one knows. But there are a lot of possibilities that extend beyond "Rhaeger is crazy/terrible" which is the oft repeated opinion of many.

The thing I always loved about Biggie was that he was fat, blacker than tar and probably asthmatic (I hear it in the voice) and he's always like, "I'm here now. And I'm the King." His lyrics were always so poetic and clever, and angry. Phrasing, word choice. "I wish moms would hurry up so I could get buck Wild juvenile ripping mics and shit New York, New York, ready for the likes of this Then came the worst date, May 21st 2:19, that's when my momma water burst No spouse in the house so she rode for self To the hospital, to see if she could get a little help Umbilical cord's wrapped around my neck I'm seeing my death and I ain't even took my first step I made it out, I'm bringing mad joy The doctor looked and said, "He's going to be a bad boy" And yes, Jay-Z is very, very smart. When he got Beyonce and some people were like "what?" and I was like, "Smart." Also, Biggie and Jay-Z went to the same high school. So did Busta Rhymes. Mrs. Wallace is amazing. I remember her in the Nick Broomfield movie and thinking "what a regal woman". I've noticed that of a lot of women from the West Indies-just a grace and a presence. I remember one guy in the Broomfield movie telling him he was only talking for "Mrs. Wallace."

This might be over forgiving, but I'm willing to bet a few things: Elia was on board with Rhaeger taking on Lyanna as a second wife. Dornish are more free about love and sex. I don't think this marriage is annulled in the books, I think it's a second marriage and the fact that Lyanna is hiding in Dorne, with Arthur Dayne guarding her, is an indication. I know Dayne is Rhaeger's best friend and Rhaeger is his prince, but House Dayne is still sworn to House Martell. If Elia knows she can't have anymore children and believes this "dragon has three heads" stuff, she might be on board. Also, Great House of the North and the Great House of the Far South coming together behind Rhaeger is pretty powerful. A marriage between Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne might also solidify this alliance. I think the messages about this plan were sabotaged somehow, not just because it doesn't seem likely they just ran off, but also because thinking you are doing something correctly and it being ruined is far more tragic than just being selfish idiots. It would not be unlike GRRM to twist the knife. A tough situation with people trying to do their best and it all turns to crap anyway. The Cersei/Rhaeger marriage was already considered not on the table as Aerys had already said no to marrying his son to his "servant's" daughter. Tywin would probably be more concerned with being Rhaeger's Hand, too. And possibly marrying Jaime off to Lysa Tully (I'm sorry, the idea of that always makes me chuckle so I bring it up whenever I can.)

Rhaeger is expected to be beautiful because even Cersei thinks he's the most beautiful man ever. From Chap 24 of Feast There is also a lot about Tommen and kittens in that chapter. Ser Pounce forever!

Tyrion knows about it, though. He used some of Aerys' stash at Blackwater and he knew Cersei was making a bunch and then used some to blow the Sept. But not all of it, because she'd have levelled the city. Tyrion knows it's general location or might be able to guess it. Steal it. Kidnap the pyromancer to make it. Someone in Essos probably knows how to make it. I dunno. Improvise.

We know, from books and show, next to nothing about after Harrenhall to Brandon Stark riding south to call out Rhaeger for stealing his sister. There is a whole chunk of story missing. I wonder if Lyanna and Rhaeger actually did send ravens, but they were waylaid. Aerys was massively paranoid- I have read things that suggest Aerys was seriously paranoid that Rhaeger was trying to depose him and that Rhaeger was seeking the help of various other lords to make it happen. Aerys getting wind of it, sabotaging the ravens to Winterfell and turning major houses against Rhaeger is a good way to prevent this. Aerys might've also been interested in removing Lord Rickard Stark and Lord Arryn if he saw it as a conspiracy. Also, look up "Southorn ambitions" theory. Lord Rickard was making very un-Stark-like power moves with his kids' marriages. Starks usually marry northern houses- Rickard engaged Brandon to Catelyn Tully of Riverrun and Lyanna to Robert Baratheon of Storm's End. Aerys would notice. There is a pretty strong suggestion that Rhaeger and Lyanna went to Dorne to hide out- possibly to hide from his father. Perhaps Elia was on board with Lyanna (I suspect Rhaeger takes Lyanna on as a second wife in the books, as Targs are wont to do.) It might be why they are in Dorne and the Dornish don't seem to be looking for them. The Dornish are also more free with these things. If he's obsessed with the dragon having three heads, why de-legitimize two of the dragon heads? Again, there is nothing to say that any of this is true, but people have speculated. I think there is more to it than "Rhaeger and Lyanna just ran away and didn't see/care about any consequences." Back to the episode- I do very much wish the actor playing Rhaeger had a different wig. I don't know why, but this show can do everything visual except fake hair.

Just from Cersei's POV- no one would've tried any of this underhanded powerplay stuff if Tywin was still around. I'm sure Cersei considered the war won and Tywin responsible for the victory. I'm not saying it's correct or she's not responsible for her own mess, but people did mess with them a heck of a lot less when they were afraid of Tywin Lannister.

Bran's line about Robert's Rebellion being based on a lie isn't correct, though. Robert Baratheon believed Lyanna was kidnapped against her will. Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark and Ned Stark did, too. And Jon Arryn. And Robert's Rebellion has always sort of been mis-named- it was really more Jon Arryn's Rebellion but that isn't as catchy and he wasn't king at the end. Bran should have said "My father lied. To everyone." Though that would thrown some water on the various "Ned Stark is the greatest. I miss the hell out of that guy." speeches from his various daughters and "sons." It might've been more interesting and nuanced though. The lack of wildfire as an option to be discussed at least is a curious one, especially since it was used by Cersei with the Sept and Tyrion at Blackwater. It's been well established

Oedipus and Jocasta is another one. Eye gouging, man. Jocasta hanged herself. There was plague! And yeah, I suspect this information (or rather, it should, but who knows with these writers?) will change the game plan of both characters. Dany has been driven to sitting on the Iron Throne because she believes she is the heir. She might also have issues with the incest, but the new claimant is going to be the bigger one. Jon thinking he's Ned Stark's bastard all his life and finding out that 1. He's a Targ 2. Has slept with his aunt, is probably going to throw him. Add in the "heir to the Iron Throne" bit.

I miss that beautiful man.

It's an informed consent thing. It's dramatic irony, which is often designed to make the audience feel powerless and uncomfortable. And Bran confirming the parentage immediately before that scene tells me they want us to find it creepy and uncomfortable. The showrunners saying "That's his aunt" over that scene in the behind the episode. They could've had the Bran scene to start the episode. Both Jaime and Cersei know what they are doing and the consequences for doing it. It's not pearl clutching, it's feeling bad for a situation that probably isn't going to end well. Exactly. Cersei and Jaime are effed up and fully aware that they are effed up and why. Pulling the wool over a couple of characters eyes, when characters like Bran already know the information, feels creepy and almost cruel.

I agree- the show has really never been more beautiful to look at. The "Beyond the Wall" episode was probably the most beautiful, but also the most dumb. And, sure enough, throw Cersei and Tyrion back together, and things get interesting. That felt like classic GOT.

Yeah, it made me extra annoyed at the KaWaBIB thing. Like, way to give the Night King the one thing he was missing, team. Way to go. Maybe Sam should hit the books and figure out how the Wall actually works. Part of me just sort of wonder why they didn't build defense weapons of dragons and wildfire to rain down on the wight army. Or something.

I was creeped out. At least with Jaime and Cersei, they know what they are to each other. This is creepy. I think my throwaway favourite part was in the bit with Euron trying to taunt Theon and Theon telling Tyrion Euron's dwarf jokes weren't even good. Also, Jaime's "Believe me, I know." look at Tyrion who was all "What's with this guy?"

But he might be a Targ by blood, but he wasn't raised that way. He gave a whole speech to Theon about Ned Stark being his father in this episode. He worships the Old Gods, who abhor incest. If he doesn't have an issue, it'll be another example of the writers trying to speed through plot points. And I don't think Dany is going to shrug her shoulders. Her whole arc has been "I have a right to sit on the Iron Throne." Bran's little revelation is a major game changer.

The way that scene between them narrated by Bran- and given the rather hilarious footage of the two actors gagging at the incest idea, I don't think they are marrying. There are a lot of ways this could end, but I don't think an aunt marrying and ruling with her nephew is going to be how this thing is going to end.

As much as Qyburn is evil and all that, I'd be willing to let him come up with plans to kill wights and white walkers. He looked very interested in that wight.

There is a whole bunch of story that is missing- post-Harrenhall up to that wedding we saw and Brandon calling Rhaeger out and getting arrested. Do we even know where Lyanna and Rhaeger ran away from?

I love you. I was a little sad when you said you were married. This is exactly how I feel about the Jon/Dany thing. It's creepy.

Yes, that's probably true.

She is right, I agree. Tyrion sent Myrcella to Dorne (who hate them. It is known.) Tyrion killed Tywin- Cersei was totally right when she said no one would've tried this stuff with Tywin still in charge. No one lives forever, of course, but one does live longer if they don't take a crossbow bolt to the bowels.

In book lore, the Targ silver hair and violet eyes are recessive. The inter family breeding kept the silver hair/violet eyes, but when they had kids with other families, it was a toss up. Rhaeger's daughter was dark like her Dornish mother. And you are totally right, the seed is strong means Baratheons having brown hair since the beginning of time . Hence, Joffrey and his siblings weren't Baratheons. Jon Arryn figuring that out and Littlefinger having him poisoned and blaming the Lannisters is what started this war that has been so destructive.

Rhaeger, in my head, has much longer hair. And it should've been tied back-not unlike Khal Drogo's but not as long. I've always liked the Lyanna actress, though, because she looks charmingly like Harrington. Rhaeger named both his sons "Aegon" for no reason. I've figured out why the Jon/Dany thing bugs me. Beyond the fact that they have no chemistry (and the whole relationship is rushed) but characters in the show and we as an audience know things about them that they don't know. Bran and Sam's conversation about Jon's parents and their wedding scene and him being the heir to the Iron Throne happening 10 seconds before he bones his aunt is just creepy. It's like a gotcha on a character (Jon) that is so steadfast and serious and constantly wanting to do the right thing. He won't even lie to get Cersei's help or the ceasefire. At least with Jaime and Cersei, they know what the deal is. There is no illusion about what they are doing- all the facts are on the table. It's a consent situation with Jon/Dany and it's creepy. Her wig is still terrible. Jon Snow is fit, though. Short, but fit. I'm not sure how much of the schmoopiness I can take between the two of them and I hope this ends soon. Also completely maddening- so glad the wight adventure was so useful in giving the Night King exactly what he needed to knock down magical ice wall that stood for thousands of years. Go Team! Littlefinger's death was a long time coming and satisfying, but I still don't like the Winterfell stuff. Headey and Dinklage KILLED their scene together. They were always good together in earlier seasons and they did it again. Headey just inhabits Cersei down to her toes and I hope she wins an Emmy at some point. That's the reason Cersei is still alive- they want Headey around.