Girls Next Door - General Discussion

[LemonSoda]

7 hours ago, Tatum said:

They were pissed because Holly and Bridget had already earmarked that room for their "scrapbook room".

I've hoped more would come out about this. I think it was one of the largest of the rooms but Hef had to pay monthly for all bedrooms used/occupied and as cost cutting as he became I can't see him paying for a room for them to do crafts in when the house and grounds has so many other areas they could go and use. I felt badly for Holly when I realized how little space she had sharing Hef's room. 

7 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Things like signing autographs and doing commentary for DVD’s aren’t even difficult. I don’t think Kendra is a malicious woman. My heart goes out to her dealing with all she did with her family. She also really adores her kids. She doesn’t seem to have a jealous bone in her body. She’s very funny. She’s got a lot of great qualities, but unfortunately a good work ethic was definitely not instilled in her.

Bridget seemed the most hardworking of the three. I love that she’s educated. Holly’s no slouch either. She said once she thought she should get a degree just because people think she’s dumb, and I think that’s kind of sad. She seems like a bright woman to me. I feel like if either of them had to head early to an office every day and get some real work done, they’d both be hard workers. I think Kendra herself said she was lazy on that boot camp show. None of us are perfect I suppose.

I think I'd be more sympathetic toward Kendra if she hadn't lashed out so much toward others. The vulgar tweets, things like that. We know there's truth in some of the things she's said about Holly but the sex shaming and slut shaming is just gross. The fake confrontation and all of that seemed very desperate for a plot line. I have no doubt Kendra adores her children. I can't stand her Mom, Patty and there's so much awful dysfunction there that I wish could be dealt with properly aka without cameras. I loved Kendra's Grandma! 

Bridget was very generous to her as well and didn't deserve the lashing she received. 

[Tatum]

35 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

I've hoped more would come out about this. I think it was one of the largest of the rooms but Hef had to pay monthly for all bedrooms used/occupied and as cost cutting as he became I can't see him paying for a room for them to do crafts in when the house and grounds has so many other areas they could go and use. I felt badly for Holly when I realized how little space she had sharing Hef's room.

Yeah, I saw that as a forum post, I don't remember reading it in Kendra's book, so I can't speak to its authenticity. I just more thought it was hilarious that they wanted an entire scrapbooking room in the first place.

I don't have much nice to say about Kendra. I think she's the type of person to talk a ton of shit behind your back and then run away and cry when she's called on it. I've also been side eying her and Hank ever since it was revealed on Celebrity Wife Swap that Hank and Kendra had little Hank enrolled in a full day daycare and use it on a regular basis so the two can lounge around whenever they want to without dealing with a 2 year old all day. I'm a working mom and I feel zero shame in taking a Me Day and bringing them to their daycare even on days when I'm off work, but those days are the exception, not the rule. I get that Kendra might actually need daycare some days, but the show made it pretty clear she uses it every day. Kate Gosselin had plenty to say about that. Kate also said even when Little Hank was home, Big Hank was doing the majority of the parenting duties. Honestly, Kendra strikes me as lazy AF. She's also crass, ill mannered, and comes off as incredibly self absorbed. It honestly shocks me that she's been able to navigate the reality TV world as long as she has.

[LemonSoda]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, I saw that as a forum post, I don't remember reading it in Kendra's book, so I can't speak to its authenticity. I just more thought it was hilarious that they wanted an entire scrapbooking room in the first place.

I don't have much nice to say about Kendra. I think she's the type of person to talk a ton of shit behind your back and then run away and cry when she's called on it. I've also been side eying her and Hank ever since it was revealed on Celebrity Wife Swap that Hank and Kendra had little Hank enrolled in a full day daycare and use it on a regular basis so the two can lounge around whenever they want to without dealing with a 2 year old all day. I'm a working mom and I feel zero shame in taking a Me Day and bringing them to their daycare even on days when I'm off work, but those days are the exception, not the rule. I get that Kendra might actually need daycare some days, but the show made it pretty clear she uses it every day. Kate Gosselin had plenty to say about that. Kate also said even when Little Hank was home, Big Hank was doing the majority of the parenting duties. Honestly, Kendra strikes me as lazy AF. She's also crass, ill mannered, and comes off as incredibly self absorbed. It honestly shocks me that she's been able to navigate the reality TV world as long as she has.

I thought it was funny then remembered how cheap Hef was about paying for unoccupied rooms. 

I've tried to look at Kendra from a place of empathy over the years. Most of her bad traits I thought could be attributed to her age, new fame and not having much real life experience. Then we met her family and saw why she lacked so much. Her Mom was awful. But Kendra kills my empathy when she continues to act out like that. If she truly wanted to stick up for Hef, she could've went about it much better than sex shaming Holly, tweeting vulgar things. She could've simply stated "I was there too but that wasn't my experience. Hef was great to me" or something like that. When she was 19-21, I could roll my eyes and believe she'd grow out of it. Now she's a Mom of two, in her thirties and still Kendra. I wish she'd show and bring out more of the good traits she has because I do believe she has some.

I think she was ill equipped for adult life. After the mansion, she wanted the fairy tale. Who can blame her? But it didn't pan out. She wanted that fully being taken care of experience. Hank's career ended much earlier than expected and all the cracks began to show. Instead of growing, learning, using resources she did the only thing she knew how to do. Ham it up for cameras. Write another book where you talk about abusing your husband and being violent, anything to keep your name out there. Create conflict with other famous people. Say hurtful things to get the clickbait articles. Create storylines to keep yourself on tv because as long as the cameras are there you can ignore real life. 

[RealHousewife]

I 100% agree with you guys. What Kendra said about Holly was incredibly low. It said more about her than it did about Holly.

[LemonSoda]

51 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I 100% agree with you guys. What Kendra said about Holly was incredibly low. It said more about her than it did about Holly.

She was in the bed too so why even go there?

One thing that really surprised me is how beautifully Kendra photographs. Hef once said she looked like a silent film star and I didn't get it. This was when Kendra had the severe platinum hair and dark tan. Then Elle I think it was did a feature on the girls. Some of the photos were black and white, they were styled a bit differently. It took a moment to realize it was Kendra in one of the photos! Then I got what Hef was saying. Big expressive eyes, sly smile. She looked like she belonged in a silent film. She's a beautiful woman and very photogenic when she wants to be. 

[RealHousewife]

2 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

She was in the bed too so why even go there?

One thing that really surprised me is how beautifully Kendra photographs. Hef once said she looked like a silent film star and I didn't get it. This was when Kendra had the severe platinum hair and dark tan. Then Elle I think it was did a feature on the girls. Some of the photos were black and white, they were styled a bit differently. It took a moment to realize it was Kendra in one of the photos! Then I got what Hef was saying. Big expressive eyes, sly smile. She looked like she belonged in a silent film. She's a beautiful woman and very photogenic when she wants to be. 

What's funny is initially Kendra was my favorite both in terms of looks and personality. I thought she was so naturally pretty, loved her blue eyes, thought she was the funniest, and liked that she was so welcoming to the Playmates and not competing with them. She is no doubt a pretty woman who has some great qualities, but the more I watched the show, the more the other girls grew on me. Personality makes such a difference. Holly and Bridget are both more classy, feminine, and kinder imo, so they became more attractive to me.

Enhanced or not, Holly is such a bombshell. She reminds me of those 50's Hollywood bombshells. Her skin is like porcelain, and her body was amazing-tiny little thing but still curvy. She also had the best style imo.

I was really young when I watched the show. Now that I'm older, I'm even more amazed Bridget had that beautiful body in her 30's. She's in great shape to this day. 

I now wonder if Kendra was trying to befriend the Playmates in a competitive way. It's totally possible she was only being kind, but after knowing the dynamic, I can see her making a point to not want to be with Bridget & Holly and trying to create her own clique. (I think Holly suggested this in the book, right?) I also like how Bridget and Holly seem kinder to fans. Remember that episode they had that fan visit? Kendra wasn't as welcoming as Holly and Bridget. I also love how Bridget is just so sweet and gets along with most people she encounters. 

[LemonSoda]

2 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

What's funny is initially Kendra was my favorite both in terms of looks and personality. I thought she was so naturally pretty, loved her blue eyes, thought she was the funniest, and liked that she was so welcoming to the Playmates and not competing with them. She is no doubt a pretty woman who has some great qualities, but the more I watched the show, the more the other girls grew on me. Personality makes such a difference. Holly and Bridget are both more classy, feminine, and kinder imo, so they became more attractive to me.

Enhanced or not, Holly is such a bombshell. She reminds me of those 50's Hollywood bombshells. Her skin is like porcelain, and her body was amazing-tiny little thing but still curvy. She also had the best style imo.

I was really young when I watched the show. Now that I'm older, I'm even more amazed Bridget had that beautiful body in her 30's. She's in great shape to this day. 

I now wonder if Kendra was trying to befriend the Playmates in a competitive way. It's totally possible she was only being kind, but after knowing the dynamic, I can see her making a point to not want to be with Bridget & Holly and trying to create her own clique. (I think Holly suggested this in the book, right?) I also like how Bridget and Holly seem kinder to fans. Remember that episode they had that fan visit? Kendra wasn't as welcoming as Holly and Bridget. I also love how Bridget is just so sweet and gets along with most people she encounters. 

I do wonder if Kendra would've been so welcoming if she had survived the things Bridget and Holly did with all the other playmates and wannabes. Kendra didn't have to endure half of what they did with the others. On some of the early episodes she was really excited to be around people her own age. When you're 18-19, you think 26 and 30 year olds are old. Also the other two girls had been there longer and had their own things going on. Holly with Hef and Bridget with studying so in some of the episodes Kendra seemed really happy just to have someone to hang out with. Except for working out Kendra didn't seem to have any hobbies or interests she wanted to pursue like the other girls did. I also think that's why she was so needy in her marriage/spin offs. She didn't have anything of her own. 

Re-watching the workout video episode it kills me Kendra never really worked that niche.

I'm mixed on all the talk on so many of these shows about enhancements. It's amazing what a tiny procedure or even a large one can do. If it's enhanced does that mean it's not truly beautiful? When you look at all of them before anything they were all still gorgeous women. But if it was purchased, does that make someone less pretty? I don't understand that. I probably never will. 

I love Holly's style. It was amazing what she could do with certain outfits. One episode she had on a ruffled Juicy Couture dress and on her it was va-voom!, you know? When I saw other women in real life wearing the same dress they looked plain, some even quite frumpy. It was, How is that the same dress? You could really see her come in to her own and tone it down a bit in the second season of her own show. I wish she would write a makeup & style book. 

Bridget has always looked great. I loved a lot of the Pin up girl and Wheels & Dollbaby clothes she wore. 

[RealHousewife]

8 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

I do wonder if Kendra would've been so welcoming if she had survived the things Bridget and Holly did with all the other playmates and wannabes. Kendra didn't have to endure half of what they did with the others. On some of the early episodes she was really excited to be around people her own age. When you're 18-19, you think 26 and 30 year olds are old. Also the other two girls had been there longer and had their own things going on. Holly with Hef and Bridget with studying so in some of the episodes Kendra seemed really happy just to have someone to hang out with. Except for working out Kendra didn't seem to have any hobbies or interests she wanted to pursue like the other girls did. I also think that's why she was so needy in her marriage/spin offs. She didn't have anything of her own. 

Re-watching the workout video episode it kills me Kendra never really worked that niche.

I'm mixed on all the talk on so many of these shows about enhancements. It's amazing what a tiny procedure or even a large one can do. If it's enhanced does that mean it's not truly beautiful? When you look at all of them before anything they were all still gorgeous women. But if it was purchased, does that make someone less pretty? I don't understand that. I probably never will. 

I love Holly's style. It was amazing what she could do with certain outfits. One episode she had on a ruffled Juicy Couture dress and on her it was va-voom!, you know? When I saw other women in real life wearing the same dress they looked plain, some even quite frumpy. It was, How is that the same dress? You could really see her come in to her own and tone it down a bit in the second season of her own show. I wish she would write a makeup & style book. 

Bridget has always looked great. I loved a lot of the Pin up girl and Wheels & Dollbaby clothes she wore. 

Yes, good point that maybe Bridget and Holly were more cautious due to what they endured. Also true about the age.

While there is something about natural beauty, ultimately beauty is beauty imo. If you're already attractive but a nose job makes you more photogenic, why not? If you’re already thin and work out, but can’t do anything to get the bigger boobs you wanted all your life, get them done. I’m all for whatever feels right to you personally, as long as it’s done cautiously, the way Holly did. I’m against plastic surgery when it’s pushed on by someone else or not taken seriously. Stuff can always happen, but you’re more likely to be happy and have good results when it’s something you really want, and you do your homework on the procedure and doctors. That’s the way Holly did it. 

I think Holly is the best at the glamorous yet fun style. I wish she had a makeover or fashion/beauty type of show.  I’d totally watch. Oh and I love your idea of a book!

I also enjoyed Bridget in all her girlie glory. I love Wheels & Dollbaby! Unfortunately they don’t sell it near me. I really liked both girls’ style tbh. Bridget was probably more youthful/girlie, but Holly was more glamour Barbie. I wasn’t as into Kendra’s (more casual and tomboyish), but she did clean up nicely for events.

[Tatum]

10 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I now wonder if Kendra was trying to befriend the Playmates in a competitive way. It's totally possible she was only being kind, but after knowing the dynamic, I can see her making a point to not want to be with Bridget & Holly and trying to create her own clique. (I think Holly suggested this in the book, right?)

Yes, Holly said that Kendra would always rush to befriend the guests, but would back off them if they tried to be friendly with Holly and Bridget too. Not sure if that's true (not suggesting Holly was making it up, but it was only speculation on her part).

I remember Kendra and her "partner in crime" Destiny. I love how Hef always eschewed strippers, yet insisted his girlfriends dress like stereotypical strippers at all times, with hair and makeup choices that were decidedly stripper-ific, and had hanger ons with names like Destiny and Angel.

Speaking of Angel- I was watching the beginning of Holly's World on youtube (although I like Holly, I could not watch more than 10 min of that mess, that made the Kardashians and Housewives shows look like Masterpiece Theater), and Angel was so unbelievably gorgeous. Holly said in her book that Angel tested for a playmate but wasn't selected, even though Holly really lobbied for her. I think Hef didn't like her breasts (this was before she was pregnant). I think Holly is a pretty lady, but when she and Angel were walking through the casino, Angel in some Daisy Mae inspired getup- she was so much cuter than Holly. I guess vaguely like a younger and dimmer Bridget. I wonder if the girls had some kind of falling out because on Holly's last few TV specials she's nowhere to be found, although as of her baby special she was still in touch with her Peepshow friends.

I googled the Shannon Twins and Crystal, because I stopped following Hef by then and couldn't picture them. I came across an article about the twins' porn venture, along with this little gem- "the producers will be closely monitoring filming to comply with the laws regarding siblings" - ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? There is ALREADY a precedent for siblings in porn films together?

Also, most of the time Crystal looked pretty bland, but in a few shots, she really  resembles Kimberley Conrad, I thought.

[RealHousewife]

39 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Yes, Holly said that Kendra would always rush to befriend the guests, but would back off them if they tried to be friendly with Holly and Bridget too. Not sure if that's true (not suggesting Holly was making it up, but it was only speculation on her part).

I remember Kendra and her "partner in crime" Destiny. I love how Hef always eschewed strippers, yet insisted his girlfriends dress like stereotypical strippers at all times, with hair and makeup choices that were decidedly stripper-ific, and had hanger ons with names like Destiny and Angel.

Speaking of Angel- I was watching the beginning of Holly's World on youtube (although I like Holly, I could not watch more than 10 min of that mess, that made the Kardashians and Housewives shows look like Masterpiece Theater), and Angel was so unbelievably gorgeous. Holly said in her book that Angel tested for a playmate but wasn't selected, even though Holly really lobbied for her. I think Hef didn't like her breasts (this was before she was pregnant). I think Holly is a pretty lady, but when she and Angel were walking through the casino, Angel in some Daisy Mae inspired getup- she was so much cuter than Holly. I guess vaguely like a younger and dimmer Bridget. I wonder if the girls had some kind of falling out because on Holly's last few TV specials she's nowhere to be found, although as of her baby special she was still in touch with her Peepshow friends.

I googled the Shannon Twins and Crystal, because I stopped following Hef by then and couldn't picture them. I came across an article about the twins' porn venture, along with this little gem- "the producers will be closely monitoring filming to comply with the laws regarding siblings" - ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? There is ALREADY a precedent for siblings in porn films together?

Also, most of the time Crystal looked pretty bland, but in a few shots, she really  resembles Kimberley Conrad, I thought.

It seemed like Kendra wanted to only hang out with Destiny on one of the trips.

Hef was quite confusing. His girlfriends and a lot of the Playmates looked a certain way, but he looked down upon strippers and red lipstick? I will never understand.

Aw I liked Holly’s World. I’m not sure if Holly and Angel are still friends. She was adorable. 

I do get Hef looking down on porn. I can see why Playboy is considered porn (it’s meant to stimulate men), but big difference in a beautiful woman in her prime simply posing nude verse having sex on camera. Porn is so much darker and grosser to me. I’m still saddened to hear about the Shannon twins. I think for some women, Playboy is just a modeling job or maybe even art, but there are others who will use to their body in any way to make money. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by RealHousewife

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

It seemed like Kendra wanted to only hang out with Destiny on one of the trips.

Hef was quite confusing. His girlfriends and a lot of the Playmates looked a certain way, but he looked down upon strippers and red lipstick? I will never understand.

Aw I liked Holly’s World. I’m not sure if Holly and Angel are still friends. She was adorable. 

I do get Hef looking down on porn. I can see why Playboy is considered porn (it’s men to stimulate men), but big difference in a beautiful woman in her prime simply posing nude verse having sex on camera. Porn is so much darker and grosser to me. I’m still saddened to hear about the Shannon twins. I think for some women, Playboy is just a modeling job or maybe even art, but there are others who will use to their body in any way to make money. 

Destiny made an appearance on the first Vegas trip, and then possibly the second season Vegas trip. I remember because Kendra was doing this absolutely disgusting thing where she was eating cheetos, sucking all the cheetos "dust" off, and then putting the soggy cheeto back into the community bowl- and Destiny ate one. Stay classy, Kendra! Think they were all in an RV or party bus.

Agree about Playboy vs. porn. Holly made it a point to say that Hef did not want Playboy to be as graphic as even Hustler or Penthouse. I haven't paged through that often, but it's mostly T&A, right? Even if they show full frontal, it's not going to be a close up of the vaginal area. Although I'd argue that since Penthouse and Hustler show both penetration and bodily fluids, they are essentially porno mags, even if they're mainstream.

ETA: I would have liked Holly's World if the focus had been more on her living in Vegas and the work on her show. Not sure if maybe there were some licensing issues, but the focus was mainly on scripted drama within her group of friends, especially that awful Laura Croft and Jayde Nicole.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Tatum

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Destiny made an appearance on the first Vegas trip, and then possibly the second season Vegas trip. I remember because Kendra was doing this absolutely disgusting thing where she was eating cheetos, sucking all the cheetos "dust" off, and then putting the soggy cheeto back into the community bowl- and Destiny ate one. Stay classy, Kendra! Think they were all in an RV or party bus.

Agree about Playboy vs. porn. Holly made it a point to say that Hef did not want Playboy to be as graphic as even Hustler or Penthouse. I haven't paged through that often, but it's mostly T&A, right? Even if they show full frontal, it's not going to be a close up of the vaginal area. Although I'd argue that since Penthouse and Hustler show both penetration and bodily fluids, they are essentially porno mags, even if they're mainstream.

ETA: I would have liked Holly's World if the focus had been more on her living in Vegas and the work on her show. Not sure if maybe there were some licensing issues, but the focus was mainly on scripted drama within her group of friends, especially that awful Laura Croft and Jayde Nicole.

I remember the Cheetos! Lol gross

My understanding is the other magazines have the girls spreading. I’m not sure how bad they really are firsthand. I only got to know what was in Playboy once I started watching GDN. I’m obsessed with beauty and googled a lot of the Playmates.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think Playboy is wholesome or something I’d put on the coffee table, just that yes it sounds a lot more tasteful than some other publications do. I do also think Playboy gets the rep of only having plastic bleached blondes, but they’ve had all kinds of women. Any of you remember Dasha, the Ukrainian woman who was the Anniversary Playmate? She was brunette, natural head to toe, and one of the most beautiful women I’d ever seen. (Holly said Dasha was the prettiest woman she ever saw, and she’s seen so many gorgeous women.) I see the beauty in women like Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole, but for the people who hate fake boobs and bleached blonde hair no matter how pretty someone is, not all the Playmates looked like Hef’s girlfriends. 

Yeah I didn’t care for the scripted drama either. I like Holly just being Holly. 

I remember I liked Jayde Nicole’s style. It was super cutesy and girlie like Holly and Bridget. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by RealHousewife

[Tatum]

27 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I remember the Cheetos! Lol gross

My understanding is the other magazines have the girls spreading. I’m not sure how bad they really are firsthand. I only got to know what was in Playboy once I started watching GDN. I’m obsessed with beauty and googled a lot of the Playmates.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think Playboy is wholesome or something I’d put on the coffee table, just that yes it sounds a lot more tasteful than some other publications do. I do also think Playboy gets the rep of only having plastic bleached blondes, but they’ve had all kinds of women. Any of you remember Dasha, the Ukrainian woman who was the Anniversary Playmate? She was brunette, natural head to toe, and one of the most beautiful women I’d ever seen. (Holly said Dasha was the prettiest woman she ever saw, and she’s seen so many gorgeous women.) I see the beauty in women like Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole, but for the people who hate fake boobs and bleached blonde hair no matter how pretty someone is, not all the Playmates looked like Hef’s girlfriends. 

Yeah I didn’t care for the scripted drama either. I like Holly just being Holly. 

I remember I liked Jayde Nicole’s style. It was super cutesy and girlie like Holly and Bridget. 

I remember on the old forums, a poster that was a connoisseur (😂) of Playboy issues said that as bland, generic, and rigid of a standard of beauty Hef had for the women in his personal life, Playboy had long since had a reputation for embracing ALL different types of beauty, with all ethnic groups well represented.  I thought that was cool.

In addition to nudity, Playboy does honestly have a ton of articles and other items in the magazine, unlike some of its contemporaries. It is definitely a different class of magazine than Hustler.

[LemonSoda]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

Yes, Holly said that Kendra would always rush to befriend the guests, but would back off them if they tried to be friendly with Holly and Bridget too. Not sure if that's true (not suggesting Holly was making it up, but it was only speculation on her part).

I remember Kendra and her "partner in crime" Destiny. I love how Hef always eschewed strippers, yet insisted his girlfriends dress like stereotypical strippers at all times, with hair and makeup choices that were decidedly stripper-ific, and had hanger ons with names like Destiny and Angel.

Speaking of Angel- I was watching the beginning of Holly's World on youtube (although I like Holly, I could not watch more than 10 min of that mess, that made the Kardashians and Housewives shows look like Masterpiece Theater), and Angel was so unbelievably gorgeous. Holly said in her book that Angel tested for a playmate but wasn't selected, even though Holly really lobbied for her. I think Hef didn't like her breasts (this was before she was pregnant). I think Holly is a pretty lady, but when she and Angel were walking through the casino, Angel in some Daisy Mae inspired getup- she was so much cuter than Holly. I guess vaguely like a younger and dimmer Bridget. I wonder if the girls had some kind of falling out because on Holly's last few TV specials she's nowhere to be found, although as of her baby special she was still in touch with her Peepshow friends.

I googled the Shannon Twins and Crystal, because I stopped following Hef by then and couldn't picture them. I came across an article about the twins' porn venture, along with this little gem- "the producers will be closely monitoring filming to comply with the laws regarding siblings" - ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? There is ALREADY a precedent for siblings in porn films together?

Also, most of the time Crystal looked pretty bland, but in a few shots, she really  resembles Kimberley Conrad, I thought.

In Holly's books it was implied that Angel used her and once she started getting the career she wanted she was gone. Angel didn't last long in her own show though which made me curious why they fired her or didn't renew her contact because she was very gorgeous. There was a ten year age gap, Angel had a baby and Holly as much as I love her tends to ghost friends the minute she's got a man in her life so who knows what truly happened. 

Um yeah there's a legal precedent for siblings in those films. I know many are shocked to find that porn has some standards 😂🤣

Crystal was very pretty but just nothing there. So blank and sometimes dead eyed. I wondered when she had some work done if it was to look more like Kimberley.

Playboy vs Porn, Despite the changing aesthetics over the years of a Playmate, Hef seemed delusional that many were actual strippers or looked like them. A lot of that was societal. Once the Pam look became mainstream it was downhill from there. The sweet faced soft bodied girl next Door didn't exist anymore. She was replaced by Bleach blonde, implanted smoky eyed sirens. But Playboy tried their hardest sticking to Hef's no labia minora rule. He thought it looked cheap. It became much more difficult when everyone became bare but many were airbrushed out in the final product. Which added to the whole overly polished, plastic quality that turned off a lot of readers who now had access to much more extreme free things thanks to the internet. 

Dasha was gorgeous. I often wonder what happened to so many of these women because the cachet of being a playmate didn't hold much in the real world anymore. In the sixties and seventies, it was a great career jump for many. In the 90s, Anna Nicole, Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy were rare exceptions. I know many of the girls ended up broke because after taxes that $25,000 is gone fast. 

I want to quote everyone here but feel like I'm flooding the boards! I'm a Pamela fan. I could watch V.I.P forever. It was so zany and enjoyably silly. 

Anna Nicole too! 

Playboy had a lot of really groundbreaking interviews. I know it's a running joke but the articles were really great. 

Jayde Nicole had great style but there was something about her that bugged. Her constant bitch face maybe? Claire Sinclair was adorable. I really do wish Holly's World had been more focused on her daily life, career instead of all the friend drama. Holly said Lara Croft who came off like a boring rock on screen was hilarious in person. Sometimes that happens. Not everyone's humor or beauty translates to the screen. 

Playboy did once embrace all types of beauty but again the aesthetics began to change in the 90s up in to the early 2000s where they all looked like clones. That's the world for ya. Look at it now, everyone from Long Island to Wichita to Malibu is going for the pouty lipped, heavily contoured, Kardashian look. It's weird how beauty standards spread and make everyone look alike. 

[Tatum]

3 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

Um yeah there's a legal precedent for siblings in those films. I know many are shocked to find that porn has some standards 😂🤣

It's not shocking to me that porn has standards (honestly!), it's more shocking to me that siblings performing together has actually been enough of an issue that they needed to make laws for it.

[LemonSoda]

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

It's not shocking to me that porn has standards (honestly!), it's more shocking to me that siblings performing together has actually been enough of an issue that they needed to make laws for it.

I find it horrifying that siblings are willing to work together especially those two. They had so much going for them. 

Of course even in print I thought the Dahm triplets and Bentley twins draped over each other was questionable. 

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

Jayde Nicole had great style but there was something about her that bugged. Her constant bitch face maybe? Claire Sinclair was adorable. I really do wish Holly's World had been more focused on her daily life, career instead of all the friend drama. Holly said Lara Croft who came off like a boring rock on screen was hilarious in person. Sometimes that happens. Not everyone's humor or beauty translates to the screen. 

Did you see that episode of Holly's World where Angel, Jayde, and Laura were all doing a photo shoot together, and Jayde spends like 20 min straight mocking/heckling Angel in a stage whisper (she's 3 feet away, she can hear the whole thing) to the point where Angel was almost in tears, and Laura (who was supposedly Angel's friend) just sits there snickering?

Anyways. I think Angel like threw a drink at Jayde and stomped off, yelling at Laura for just sitting there laughing (which really hurt Angel's already fledgling modeling career, so I wish she could have maintained her composure), and goes home to tell Holly and Josh about it.

Laura swans in later, and Josh immediately calls her out for being a shit friend. Laura immediately is all like, okay, FINE, I guess I'm the WORST PERSON EVER! and stomps off. I hate people who use hyperbole like that trying to get out of acknowledging when they were in the wrong. I don't believe she ever apologized either.

[Tatum]

39 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

In Holly's books it was implied that Angel used her and once she started getting the career she wanted she was gone. Angel didn't last long in her own show though which made me curious why they fired her or didn't renew her contact because she was very gorgeous. There was a ten year age gap, Angel had a baby and Holly as much as I love her tends to ghost friends the minute she's got a man in her life so who knows what truly happened. 

I'm somewhat skeptical about this. It's entirely possible, I guess, but one thing I've noticed so far in Holly's first book- while she pretty freely admits in hindsight how many stupid mistakes she made when it came to moving into the mansion and hooking up with Criss Angel, when it comes to her many conflicts with other women- it is never her fault. She never says something unkind, never gets into anybody's business, never tattles on the other girls to Hef, never overreacts or misconstrues a situation, never took offense to something was nothing was intended- etc. It is always the other woman's fault. Holly is always trying to be friendly, minding her own business, etc, and the other woman just inexplicably hates her. I don't doubt there were a lot of bitchy women that caused conflicts, but come on, no one is perfect. I refuse to believe Holly never had a hand in any of the many issues around her.

[LemonSoda]

32 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Did you see that episode of Holly's World where Angel, Jayde, and Laura were all doing a photo shoot together, and Jayde spends like 20 min straight mocking/heckling Angel in a stage whisper (she's 3 feet away, she can hear the whole thing) to the point where Angel was almost in tears, and Laura (who was supposedly Angel's friend) just sits there snickering?

Anyways. I think Angel like threw a drink at Jayde and stomped off, yelling at Laura for just sitting there laughing (which really hurt Angel's already fledgling modeling career, so I wish she could have maintained her composure), and goes home to tell Holly and Josh about it.

Laura swans in later, and Josh immediately calls her out for being a shit friend. Laura immediately is all like, okay, FINE, I guess I'm the WORST PERSON EVER! and stomps off. I hate people who use hyperbole like that trying to get out of acknowledging when they were in the wrong. I don't believe she ever apologized either.

I did! Now I want to watch that ep! I didn't understand why they kept her on the show. She was so ugh. 

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I'm somewhat skeptical about this. It's entirely possible, I guess, but one thing I've noticed so far in Holly's first book- while she pretty freely admits in hindsight how many stupid mistakes she made when it came to moving into the mansion and hooking up with Criss Angel, when it comes to her many conflicts with other women- it is never her fault. She never says something unkind, never gets into anybody's business, never tattles on the other girls to Hef, never overreacts or misconstrues a situation, never took offense to something was nothing was intended- etc. It is always the other woman's fault. Holly is always trying to be friendly, minding her own business, etc, and the other woman just inexplicably hates her. I don't doubt there were a lot of bitchy women that caused conflicts, but come on, no one is perfect. I refuse to believe Holly never had a hand in any of the many issues around her.

Again, I love Holly but this is so true. One thing I took from both books was she's kind of stuck with that victim mentality. Everything is everyone else's fault. I do believe she endured a lot but seriously? 

Bridget is someone I'd consider a loyal friend. She seems to show up for everyone despite the length or depth of their friendship. Holly hasn't seemed to established real adult friendships. Even with Josh and Angel in Vegas, it was about everyone being there for her. She ghosts friends the moment there's a man in her life and she still seems to have a bit of identity issues, she adapts herself to who she's with. 

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

I did! Now I want to watch that ep! I didn't understand why they kept her on the show. She was so ugh. 

Again, I love Holly but this is so true. One thing I took from both books was she's kind of stuck with that victim mentality. Everything is everyone else's fault. I do believe she endured a lot but seriously? 

Bridget is someone I'd consider a loyal friend. She seems to show up for everyone despite the length or depth of their friendship. Holly hasn't seemed to established real adult friendships. Even with Josh and Angel in Vegas, it was about everyone being there for her. She ghosts friends the moment there's a man in her life and she still seems to have a bit of identity issues, she adapts herself to who she's with. 

OMG, I'm SO bored at work. Sorry mods!

The Angel thing made me uncomfortable because there was such a power difference in the "friendship". I mean, I truly believe Holly cared about Angel and wanted to help her out (providing her an assistant job), but it really came off more as Angel is being paid to kiss Holly's ass basically. Even when Holly offered to pay for a boob job for Angel (since Angel was insecure about her breasts and wanted to do more modeling/showgirl-ing), there was something off about it- like Holly is playing at fairy godmother and Angel has to be over the top grateful and appreciative. I don't know, it just never seemed very sincere. Perhaps Angel was a user all along, but perhaps the dynamic made her uncomfortable as well. Maybe it wasn't so much that Angel used Holly to get her own show, but that once Angel had her show, and was more or less on common ground with Holly, the friendship dynamic changed too much to maintain. Who knows, I guess.

[RealHousewife]

I forgot a lot about what Holly said about Angel in her book. I thought it was very sweet of Holly to get her a boob job. One with Dr. Fisher is not cheap! She said she did things for Angel that would have made her happy when she was Angel’s age. I didn’t know Holly ghosted friends when she had a man. 

I remember Tina Jordan saying Holly was very sweet. I know she’s a public figure and not shy with things like nudity, but Holly always struck me as otherwise somewhat reserved and shy. I can see her being at the mansion for the same reasons as all the other girls, but still trying to be respectful of Hef and not being a mean girl. She said there were some who mocked her looks, which is incredibly mean. I know no human is perfect and not saying Holly is, but I truly think she’s got a kind heart.  

I’m curious what happened to a lot of the Playmates. I know some became bitter and regretted doing Playboy when they go on to struggle in life. Playboy doesn’t mean you’ll become a millionaire superstar. Pam is the exception, not the norm. 

I heard Hef’s sons have a very different idea of beauty compared to Hef. I do agree with Hef that young Pam Anderson was absolutely beautiful. She didn’t even need a boob job or anything. I preferred her with the natural blonde hair, natural fuller bows, and softer makeup too. 

I haven’t kept up on Playmates much since GND ended. I remember they had people like Jessica Burciaga (Latina who resembles J. Lo) and black Playmates as well. They weren’t all in the GND mold. I read somewhere that more white women, busty blondes in particular, try out for Playmate in the first place just because it’s what is expected to be favored.

[LemonSoda]

59 minutes ago, Tatum said:

OMG, I'm SO bored at work. Sorry mods!

The Angel thing made me uncomfortable because there was such a power difference in the "friendship". I mean, I truly believe Holly cared about Angel and wanted to help her out (providing her an assistant job), but it really came off more as Angel is being paid to kiss Holly's ass basically. Even when Holly offered to pay for a boob job for Angel (since Angel was insecure about her breasts and wanted to do more modeling/showgirl-ing), there was something off about it- like Holly is playing at fairy godmother and Angel has to be over the top grateful and appreciative. I don't know, it just never seemed very sincere. Perhaps Angel was a user all along, but perhaps the dynamic made her uncomfortable as well. Maybe it wasn't so much that Angel used Holly to get her own show, but that once Angel had her show, and was more or less on common ground with Holly, the friendship dynamic changed too much to maintain. Who knows, I guess.

That's something I think about now that I didn't at the time. Angel was her assistant then understudy, then once she had successes on her own and moved back to her Moms to be closer to the Strip it wasn't that she didn't need Holly, she had her own life aside from being Holly's friend. Power shifts in friendships can be weird. I'm dealing with this now in my friend group. A friend lost a massive amount weight, she's in therapy, she's doing things she's never done before, she's living life truly for the first time. Well another friend who has always relied on her to call with boyfriend troubles, problems, help her with things is upset and hurt that she's not available much anymore because instead of never leaving the house much she's living life, she's getting attention from men that used to only go to the other friend. So that power shift of suddenly having equal or superior power can really take a toll on friendships. 

I'm sure the exposure of being Holly's friend helped her out. But no one should have to grovel. 

46 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I forgot a lot about what Holly said about Angel in her book. I thought it was very sweet of Holly to get her a boob job. One with Dr. Fisher is not cheap! She said she did things for Angel that would have made her happy when she was Angel’s age. I didn’t know Holly ghosted friends when she had a man. 

I remember Tina Jordan saying Holly was very sweet. I know she’s a public figure and not shy with things like nudity, but Holly always struck me as otherwise somewhat reserved and shy. I can see her being at the mansion for the same reasons as all the other girls, but still trying to be respectful of Hef and not being a mean girl. She said there were some who mocked her looks, which is incredibly mean. I know no human is perfect and not saying Holly is, but I truly think she’s got a kind heart.  

I’m curious what happened to a lot of the Playmates. I know some became bitter and regretted doing Playboy when they go on to struggle in life. Playboy doesn’t mean you’ll become a millionaire superstar. Pam is the exception, not the norm. 

I heard Hef’s sons have a very different idea of beauty compared to Hef. I do agree with Hef that young Pam Anderson was absolutely beautiful. She didn’t even need a boob job or anything. I preferred her with the natural blonde hair, natural fuller bows, and softer makeup too. 

I haven’t kept up on Playmates much since GND ended. I remember they had people like Jessica Burciaga (Latina who resembles J. Lo) and black Playmates as well. They weren’t all in the GND mold. I read somewhere that more white women, busty blondes in particular, try out for Playmate in the first place just because it’s what is expected to be favored.

Angel said the show paid for it not Holly but Dr Fisher is the best. Sitting on his wait list is worth it. 

Yeah, Holly absorbs herself in every guy she's with, at times even changing her appearance a bit.

I think she's much more modest than anyone believes. I remember in one of her books I giggled when she said that Playboy life had made her brain think it was okay to be in a tiny halter dress usually reserved for a nightclub than daily life. It took her a while to get away from that overtly sexy mentality. 

Wasn't original recipe Pamela so stunning? She didn't need anything added and even now says she wouldn't do it knowing what she knows now. And despite the global fame, Pam has always had money problems. Fame doesn't equal wealth.

Many of the girls married well but most simply faded in to obscurity. When the show was popular that's one thing many haters liked to harp on. That we shouldn't enjoy the happy show because there was more darkness to the lifestyle than what was bright. 

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, LemonSoda said:

That's something I think about now that I didn't at the time. Angel was her assistant then understudy, then once she had successes on her own and moved back to her Moms to be closer to the Strip it wasn't that she didn't need Holly, she had her own life aside from being Holly's friend. Power shifts in friendships can be weird. I'm dealing with this now in my friend group. A friend lost a massive amount weight, she's in therapy, she's doing things she's never done before, she's living life truly for the first time. Well another friend who has always relied on her to call with boyfriend troubles, problems, help her with things is upset and hurt that she's not available much anymore because instead of never leaving the house much she's living life, she's getting attention from men that used to only go to the other friend. So that power shift of suddenly having equal or superior power can really take a toll on friendships. 

I'm sure the exposure of being Holly's friend helped her out. But no one should have to grovel. 

Angel said the show paid for it not Holly but Dr Fisher is the best. Sitting on his wait list is worth it. 

Yeah, Holly absorbs herself in every guy she's with, at times even changing her appearance a bit.

I think she's much more modest than anyone believes. I remember in one of her books I giggled when she said that Playboy life had made her brain think it was okay to be in a tiny halter dress usually reserved for a nightclub than daily life. It took her a while to get away from that overtly sexy mentality. 

Wasn't original recipe Pamela so stunning? She didn't need anything added and even now says she wouldn't do it knowing what she knows now. And despite the global fame, Pam has always had money problems. Fame doesn't equal wealth.

Many of the girls married well but most simply faded in to obscurity. When the show was popular that's one thing many haters liked to harp on. That we shouldn't enjoy the happy show because there was more darkness to the lifestyle than what was bright. 

I remember Holly saying Angel should try to go for her dreams instead of being an assistant on the show. Power dynamics are very much a factor. I don’t think you can ever rely on a friend to be there 24/7 long term. It is annoying when you feel like you totally lose a friend when they get a man. 

So it was the show that paid, interesting! That’s a ton of money to spend on a storyline. I’ve been wanting to go to Dr. Fisher for years but have been putting it off for different reasons. My boobs are a bit bigger now anyway due to spironolactone, but I haven’t ruled out getting getting a boob job. I also like Dr. Kim’s work. He did Kendra’s originally. He costs a lot less. I’m not sure who’s better between the two. Both of them have excellent before and after shots, but way more celebs and Playmates go to Dr. Fisher. Are you a Fisher patient or just a fan of his work? 

I noticed how Holly’s whole vibe changes with men. She was very Marilyn with Hef, then Hot Topic with Criss Angel. Lol 

Yes, she became more modest post mansion. Her dresses became longer. I think the mansion both warps your view on what’s appropriate attire and beauty standards. Even when you ARE the kind of female who other females would love to look like, it will mess with you. Holly said it was hard to feel good about herself seeing someone younger and prettier all the time. And Izabella said she forgot what normal was until she left the mansion and wasn’t constantly around Playmates.

Natural Pam was one of the most beautiful women, I don’t care what anyone says! Lol I’ve heard about her money problems too, but she still accomplished way more than most Playmates. Ditto Jenny McCarthy. I am sure some of the ones who don’t become big models or actresses no matter how beautiful they are wound up in cozy lifestyles marrying men they would have been able to snag anyway just from their looks, not being a Playmate.

Edited July 25, 2019 by RealHousewife

[Tatum]

I thought Jenny McCarthy was cute, nothing more. But she was very charismatic and also at the right place at the right time I think.

Pam Anderson was incredibly gorgeous and also incredibly shrewd and ambitious. While I think a lot of the playmates and would be playmates wanted a bigger career, I am not sure they had the pragmatism and the drive Pam had.

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I thought Jenny McCarthy was cute, nothing more. But she was very charismatic and also at the right place at the right time I think.

Pam Anderson was incredibly gorgeous and also incredibly shrewd and ambitious. While I think a lot of the playmates and would be playmates wanted a bigger career, I am not sure they had the pragmatism and the drive Pam had.

I think Jenny was pretty, but I also think Pam was much prettier. Pam’s an all-time favorite beauty of mine. I also think Pam’s more likable and intelligent than most Playmates. Pam’s humble about her looks and career and has joked her breasts have been her career and she’s just tagging along, but I’ve always thought she was a world-class beauty who had charm. There are so many beautiful women out there with the fake boobs and long blonde hair. Pam became an icon and was THE female sex symbol of the 90’s for a reason. 

[LemonSoda]

Dr Fisher probably waived the fee, he does for a lot of shows. But Angel made it clear that it didn't come from Holly's' wallet. I'm a 3x patient. The first on my own, the others tiny corrections he made to make it perfect. Dr Stoker is good too. He's done a lot of work for friends.

39 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I thought Jenny McCarthy was cute, nothing more. But she was very charismatic and also at the right place at the right time I think.

Pam Anderson was incredibly gorgeous and also incredibly shrewd and ambitious. While I think a lot of the playmates and would be playmates wanted a bigger career, I am not sure they had the pragmatism and the drive Pam had.

Jenny has a charisma and wild humour that really propelled her. Pam was so gorgeous and sweet and fun. She claims she didn't try much but I think she put herself in good situations to allow opportunities to happen. She has such an enigmatic energy. Anyone can be beautiful but they need that extra something to thrive. She's like Marilyn - they're both highly intelligent but that's overlooked due to their looks. 

[RealHousewife]

44 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

Dr Fisher probably waived the fee, he does for a lot of shows. But Angel made it clear that it didn't come from Holly's' wallet. I'm a 3x patient. The first on my own, the others tiny corrections he made to make it perfect. Dr Stoker is good too. He's done a lot of work for friends.

Jenny has a charisma and wild humour that really propelled her. Pam was so gorgeous and sweet and fun. She claims she didn't try much but I think she put herself in good situations to allow opportunities to happen. She has such an enigmatic energy. Anyone can be beautiful but they need that extra something to thrive. She's like Marilyn - they're both highly intelligent but that's overlooked due to their looks. 

I see. I wondered about that but wasn't sure since he's so well-known. Would you recommend Dr. Fisher for out of town patients, or is it too much of a hassle if I may need to go back? I'll have to look up Dr. Stoker! Thank you for the info. :) I've looked up a ton of surgeons, it's hard to keep them all straight. I like that Fisher's aesthetic is somewhat natural. His gallery features pretty natural-looking afters, and Holly said she talked him into a D cup. Isabella said all the girls went to him. I figure good enough for a Playmate and Hugh's girlfriends, good enough for me. Dr. Kim is more known for the fake look, but he does it so well-they don't look like bolt-ons. I'd also be saving a lot of money, but I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor. I want the absolute best surgeon if I go through with it. 

Yeah Jenny is fun. I see why she became a star. I was going to compare Pam to Marilyn, but I thought people would think I'm crazy. lol I know Pam's work isn't the same as Marilyn's. But they are both timeless blonde beauties who are far more intelligent than some give them credit for. 

[LemonSoda]

10 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Yeah Jenny is fun. I see why she became a star. I was going to compare Pam to Marilyn, but I thought people would think I'm crazy. lol I know Pam's work isn't the same as Marilyn's. But they are both timeless blonde beauties who are far more intelligent than some give them credit for. 

Pm'd the Dr stuff 🙂

Jenny hit at the right moment too and fit in with that MTV goofy fun time. She had a lot of lean years though too and had kind of a comeback. 

I don't know why anyone would think you're crazy for comparing Marilyn and Pamela. I do have to say it irks me when I'd hear girls mention Marilyn being a playmate as one of the legitimate reasons to do it. Um no. Hef bought old photos of her and literally built an empire using her as a springboard without her consent. She had and wanted nothing to do with the Playboy. She wasn't ashamed of the photos and refused to deny it was her. Which was very brave at the time.

With that said, Pamela and Marilyn have much in common. Both very intelligent, sex symbols, complicated relationships with men. In the Dirt, Tommy Lee compared her to a shiny new guitar he didn't know how to play but wanted to show off to the neighbors. Tragic, isn't it? While Marilyn wanted to be taken seriously as a person and an actress. Pam claims to not care much but she is talented. She's done a lot of comedy which is hard. In the short film Connected which is on YouTube she's great as the aging fitness instructor. Very expressive eyes. 

I pulled out my GND book! I had forgotten how many cute photos are in it. I wish they would've waited until the series was over to include other seasons in it but they all had no idea they'd leave when they did. It's sad Hef thought they original three were replaceable. 

[Tatum]

I finished the book! (Know you all- okay, all three of you- were waiting with bated breath).

It was a little boring at the end (you could tell she kind of wanted to skim over a lot of 2010-2013, not necessarily to hide it, but she just didn't seem that inclined to discuss that period, or maybe the editor thought no one would care), but OMG, Team Holly! for telling Kendra's people that Kendra could not be her understudy (although a very good call, would that have been up to Holly?).

And omg, Kendra, entitled much? You have no dance training, have a long track record of not following through, not being punctual, half assing anything you don't really want to do, and you think you should headline a 6 night a week Vegas show? (Although, in fairness to Kendra, I don't know if she even wanted to do it, sounds like this was all her people talking).

Holly, Holly, Holly. You know, I like you. I think you have a great work ethic, are good at most things that you try, and have an attractive, if very reserved, personality. But please, PLEASE- get your ass into therapy. Now. Like, intense therapy. It is pretty clear from this book you are not recovered from your time with Hef, and you are treating the symptoms of the problem, not the problem,

Let's review: Holly moves in with a man because she's about to be homeless. She is absurdly grateful to him, because she sees this as a favor he did for her, rather than a long term plaything he bought at a rock bottom price. He systematically isolates her- encourages the other women to bully her, he forbids her to work outside of the house. When she does have a friendly encounter with another woman in the house, he tries to poison that by playing mind games with her and trying to make her resent the other woman, or make the other woman resent her. He routinely berates her on things she can't control. He strongly encourages her to change everything about herself he does not like. He keeps tabs on her spending and obliquely threatens to cut off her money. He signs a contract with E! in which Holly is tasked to do most of the filming- a lot of times nude- and doesn't pay her a dime. He has her followed. If yelling at her isn't effective, he starts to hint that he's sickly to manipulate and guilt her. After she has moved out, he continues to send her letters berating her.

I mean, Hef may not have ever hit her (and honestly, if he didn't, it's probably mostly because he was too frail at that point in his life), but this has all the markings of an abusive relationship, which Holly still does not acknowledge.

She finally escapes, only to repeat the cycle with another guy, who is not only emotionally abusive, but I suspect physically too, although Holly does not say this. There was definitely intimidation used,  if not actual battery.

It does seem like there was a decent waiting period between Criss Angel and Pasqual (she says three years, I think more like 18 months)- but again, per her own words, she moved in with Pasqual right away and was pregnant inside of a year.

Now, I read from TMZ that she's got a new boyfriend already. I don't expect this to end well either.

[LemonSoda]

Im so glad you finished it! I'll respond later with a longer response but no there wasn't that much of a gap between them because she dated and had relationships with other guys. If you read The Vegas Diaries she talks about most of her dating experiences during that time. There were others, relationships between Criss and Pasquale

Edited July 26, 2019 by LemonSoda

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, LemonSoda said:

Im so glad you finished it! I'll respond later with a longer response but no there wasn't that much of a gap between them because she dated and had relationships with other guys. If you read The Vegas Diaries she talks about most of her dating experiences during that time. 

Next on my list! Got them both from library!

If they have Sliding into Home, I might grab that one too, if only to grudge-read again :).

[RealHousewife]

7 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Pm'd the Dr stuff 🙂

Jenny hit at the right moment too and fit in with that MTV goofy fun time. She had a lot of lean years though too and had kind of a comeback. 

I don't know why anyone would think you're crazy for comparing Marilyn and Pamela. I do have to say it irks me when I'd hear girls mention Marilyn being a playmate as one of the legitimate reasons to do it. Um no. Hef bought old photos of her and literally built an empire using her as a springboard without her consent. She had and wanted nothing to do with the Playboy. She wasn't ashamed of the photos and refused to deny it was her. Which was very brave at the time.

With that said, Pamela and Marilyn have much in common. Both very intelligent, sex symbols, complicated relationships with men. In the Dirt, Tommy Lee compared her to a shiny new guitar he didn't know how to play but wanted to show off to the neighbors. Tragic, isn't it? While Marilyn wanted to be taken seriously as a person and an actress. Pam claims to not care much but she is talented. She's done a lot of comedy which is hard. In the short film Connected which is on YouTube she's great as the aging fitness instructor. Very expressive eyes. 

I pulled out my GND book! I had forgotten how many cute photos are in it. I wish they would've waited until the series was over to include other seasons in it but they all had no idea they'd leave when they did. It's sad Hef thought they original three were replaceable. 

Yeah people seem to think Marilyn decided she wanted to be a Playmate. 

I agree Pam has more talent than she’s given credit for. She is really naturally funny in her interviews. Her beautiful, expressive eyes do help her as an actress as well. 

I didn’t think I’d get so into GND, but the girls all made for great TV. Definitely a shame Hef saw nothing special in his long term girlfriends. 

@ Tatum I’m so glad you’ve joined us with the books! Sounds like we all agree with the way things went down for the most part. I didn’t know Hef made Holly feel so terrible about herself before I read about it. 😞 I thought he didn’t want the girls to be Playmates because he didn’t want to lose them as gf’s and/or was sensitive to their feelings when they were turned down. I know Holly said in the DVD commentary that Hef said she wasn’t photogenic. I didn’t realize he was so brutal about the girls gaining a little weight, lipstick, hair, etc.

Edited July 26, 2019 by RealHousewife

[TrixieTrue]

I'm so glad there's finally a forum for this show! You are my people!!

I watched the show a little when it was first on, moved to an apartment without cable and stopped after or in the middle of season 3, and then bought all of the seasons on itunes a few years back. I put it on when I'm cleaning. :) 

I've read both of Holly's books and follow Holly and Bridget on instagram, but I was never a Kendra fan. 

Some people above mentioned some of Holly's Vegas friends. She and Angel had a falling-out, but they're friends again and tag each other on instagram. Holly's is also still friends with Josh Strickland and I've seen pictures of them traveling together. I know she's in touch with Bridget, but I'm not sure about other former PB friends, like Stacey Burke or Crystal Camden. Or any of the playmates. 

It's interesting to see the show now, having read Holly's books, and pick up on little digs and details.  

[RealHousewife]

Welcome TrixieTrue!

Yeah the book helps fans understand the dynamic on the show better. I thought Holly had some Playmate friends in her bridal party. 

Kendra was still friends with some girls she met at the mansion too. I think Tiffany Fallon (one of the prettiest Playmates imo) appeared on one of her shows.

[LemonSoda]

Welcome TrixieTrue! So happy all the GND fans are showing up! 

6 hours ago, Tatum said:

I finished the book! (Know you all- okay, all three of you- were waiting with bated breath).

It was a little boring at the end (you could tell she kind of wanted to skim over a lot of 2010-2013, not necessarily to hide it, but she just didn't seem that inclined to discuss that period, or maybe the editor thought no one would care), but OMG, Team Holly! for telling Kendra's people that Kendra could not be her understudy (although a very good call, would that have been up to Holly?).

And omg, Kendra, entitled much? You have no dance training, have a long track record of not following through, not being punctual, half assing anything you don't really want to do, and you think you should headline a 6 night a week Vegas show? (Although, in fairness to Kendra, I don't know if she even wanted to do it, sounds like this was all her people talking).

Holly, Holly, Holly. You know, I like you. I think you have a great work ethic, are good at most things that you try, and have an attractive, if very reserved, personality. But please, PLEASE- get your ass into therapy. Now. Like, intense therapy. It is pretty clear from this book you are not recovered from your time with Hef, and you are treating the symptoms of the problem, not the problem,

Let's review: Holly moves in with a man because she's about to be homeless. She is absurdly grateful to him, because she sees this as a favor he did for her, rather than a long term plaything he bought at a rock bottom price. He systematically isolates her- encourages the other women to bully her, he forbids her to work outside of the house. When she does have a friendly encounter with another woman in the house, he tries to poison that by playing mind games with her and trying to make her resent the other woman, or make the other woman resent her. He routinely berates her on things she can't control. He strongly encourages her to change everything about herself he does not like. He keeps tabs on her spending and obliquely threatens to cut off her money. He signs a contract with E! in which Holly is tasked to do most of the filming- a lot of times nude- and doesn't pay her a dime. He has her followed. If yelling at her isn't effective, he starts to hint that he's sickly to manipulate and guilt her. After she has moved out, he continues to send her letters berating her.

I mean, Hef may not have ever hit her (and honestly, if he didn't, it's probably mostly because he was too frail at that point in his life), but this has all the markings of an abusive relationship, which Holly still does not acknowledge.

She finally escapes, only to repeat the cycle with another guy, who is not only emotionally abusive, but I suspect physically too, although Holly does not say this. There was definitely intimidation used,  if not actual battery.

It does seem like there was a decent waiting period between Criss Angel and Pasqual (she says three years, I think more like 18 months)- but again, per her own words, she moved in with Pasqual right away and was pregnant inside of a year.

Now, I read from TMZ that she's got a new boyfriend already. I don't expect this to end well either.

I think from what we've seen over the years Kendra, her team like to stir things up. Which is unfortunately what has kept her on tv.

Holly was amazing in Peepshow. I can't say it enough. For someone without the performer, dance training background it was even more impressive. That's why it kills me she's not doing anything. 

It's hard to even comment on what they all went through because at the end of the day nothing, no customized cars, surgery or amount of fame is worth losing your self worth which is the real narrative. I've seen reviewers nit pick how she left this or that out. I, myself questioned certain things too because I felt she left so much out or didn't mention some positives like she should. 

She left, created a great new life for herself but I still feel she didn't work on her interior the way she should have. Jumping from one man to the next then creating her family isn't a fix. You need to help yourself mentally and emotionally. Post divorce was sad to see because she kept posting stories where she showed herself to basically be living an aimless existence. 

Holly is still friendly with Stacy Burke. 

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Welcome TrixieTrue! So happy all the GND fans are showing up! 

I think from what we've seen over the years Kendra, her team like to stir things up. Which is unfortunately what has kept her on tv.

Holly was amazing in Peepshow. I can't say it enough. For someone without the performer, dance training background it was even more impressive. That's why it kills me she's not doing anything. 

It's hard to even comment on what they all went through because at the end of the day nothing, no customized cars, surgery or amount of fame is worth losing your self worth which is the real narrative. I've seen reviewers nit pick how she left this or that out. I, myself questioned certain things too because I felt she left so much out or didn't mention some positives like she should. 

She left, created a great new life for herself but I still feel she didn't work on her interior the way she should have. Jumping from one man to the next then creating her family isn't a fix. You need to help yourself mentally and emotionally. Post divorce was sad to see because she kept posting stories where she showed herself to basically be living an aimless existence. 

Holly is still friendly with Stacy Burke. 

Me too! I thought it might be a party of one at first. 😂

I wonder if Kendra is willing to put anything out there for the sake of a reality TV career because it’s all she’s ever really known as an adult. I’m not sure if she did much other than a little modeling before GND. She’s bounced from reality show to reality show from 18/19 to her 30’s. 

I agree you can’t put a price on your self worth. I think Holly didn’t have great self-esteem growing up so she looked for validation. So much of her life is based around her body/looks. She went from being a Hooters waitress, to Hef’s GF/wanting to be a Playmate, to working as a Vegas showgirl. She also said she thought she should get a degree just because people think she’s dumb. I think Holly has both looks and brains. But given that she felt like an ugly duckling growing up, spent her 20’s surrounded by Playmates and with a boyfriend who made her feel ugly, replaceable on GND, and that she would be nothing without him, and then people will think she’s dumb just because of her appearance and being Hef’s gf, it makes sense why she feels like she has to prove herself. I’m not sure what Holly is truly passionate about and wants to do just because she simply wants to. 

Anyone know what happened between Holly and her husband? I wonder if she rushed into things because she wanted to start a family. I’m not judging her for it. When you’re over 30, you get so much pressure. It’s hard enough when you want to get married and have kids, and there are people in your ear about it too.

I never got to see Holly perform. Not surprised she was great! I think she’s the type who can achieve whatever she puts her mind to. I wonder what is next for her, if she is happy being at home with her little ones or if she still craves glamour and excitement in addition to motherhood. If you have a genuine passion for acting or performing of some kind (not just a love of fame), it is very hard to live without a creative outlet. I just wouldn’t want her to perform for the sole reason of saying, “I can headline a show! I’m not just a dumb blonde!” I’d want her to do it if it makes her heart sing. 

Stacy was at the mansion for many years IRC, so that would make sense. 

[LemonSoda]

Absolutely! I touched on that a bit before, I think Kendra is very stunted and keeps it all up because it's all she knows. If Hank's career had been longer, more financially profitable I think she might've have more of a chance because she wanted that being taken care of, no responsibilities lifestyle. 

Except for Disney, Harry Potter, Collecting toys, themed things, I'm not sure Holly fully knows herself if that makes sense. I think that's another reason she adapts herself to each partner. Mansion life alone could give anyone dymorphia but except for a very short time she hasn't had much time to truly know herself. I don't think she knows. 

No one knows. It's weird that he served her though.

She got pregnant not long after they became serious. She always spoke of wanting kids and well once your pregnant things move along quickly and no matter how much you love someone, you need a strong foundation to build a family life upon. They fell in love, had a baby, got engaged a few months after having Rainbow, had the most amazing beautiful fairytale wedding, built a beautiful home but without solid foundations you can't keep painting a fence to cover cracks in the wood. 

Stacy is a sweet person, I wish she had more in life. 

[RealHousewife]

Yeah the beautiful weddings and houses definitely don’t make for a lasting marriage. 

I’m most intrigued by Holly and the psychology behind her decisions because I relate to her in some ways. 

Stacy must be sweet to be able to get along with everyone all these years. 

[LemonSoda]

3 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Yeah the beautiful weddings and houses definitely don’t make for a lasting marriage. 

I’m most intrigued by Holly and the psychology behind her decisions because I relate to her in some ways. 

Stacy must be sweet to be able to get along with everyone all these years. 

Sometimes things come together so fast that you don't even think about certain things. 

Me too. So very much. 

I think so too. She's spacey and rambling in her videos but she's a fun happy person despite everything she's been through. 

[RealHousewife]

57 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

Sometimes things come together so fast that you don't even think about certain things. 

Me too. So very much. 

I think so too. She's spacey and rambling in her videos but she's a fun happy person despite everything she's been through. 

Very true!

Aw that must be why we are fans and are clicking. 🙂

I think Cristal Camden also seemed sweet on GND. 

[LemonSoda]

4 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Very true!

Aw that must be why we are fans and are clicking. 🙂

I think Cristal Camden also seemed sweet on GND. 

I think so too! 💜

Shes another one that was around the mansion forever! 

[LemonSoda]

Has anyone noticed their views about certain plots or situations on the show have changed over the years? 

Like many on TWOP and the E! GND forums I rolled my eyes over Kendra going on and on about the Olive Garden. But now all these years later I see that from where she came from, a single lower income household and life where stripping at 18 was her way of supporting herself, The Olive Garden was fancy to her. The Olive Garden is expensive and fancy to many. Going out to eat in general is a big treat for many. And to laugh at it isn't funny. 

Yes, I've become overly empathic over the years. 

[RealHousewife]

l I went from favoring Kendra to preferring both Holly & Bridget. 

I also thought Hef was overall a pleasant person even if he was known as a dirty old man or whatever. I was really disappointed to hear that he played mind games. It's possible he didn't treat all the girlfriends badly, but I thought he was a kinder man than the way Holly portrayed him in her book. He handled himself well in the press and on the show for the most part, and celebs seem to adore him. But I know they only know him on a superficial level compared to girlfriends who live with him for several years. 

I remember Kendra's love of Olive Garden! lol I actually loved how she was so unpretentious. I remember in the commentary Holly said growing up Olive Garden was a treat for her too-that her parents would take her there on her birthday. I think Kendra brought up being from 'the hood" (which Holly mocked her for lol) and not having much more than the other girls, but I think all of them came from somewhat humble backgrounds. That's probably why the mansion (however old and dirty) and the lifestyle that came along with it was so appealing to the girls. Some of the girlfriends had more than others, but I don't think any of them grew up with doctors for parents or anything like that. 

[LemonSoda]

12 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

l I went from favoring Kendra to preferring both Holly & Bridget. 

I also thought Hef was overall a pleasant person even if he was known as a dirty old man or whatever. I was really disappointed to hear that he played mind games. It's possible he didn't treat all the girlfriends badly, but I thought he was a kinder man than the way Holly portrayed him in her book. He handled himself well in the press and on the show for the most part, and celebs seem to adore him. But I know they only know him on a superficial level compared to girlfriends who live with him for several years. 

I remember Kendra's love of Olive Garden! lol I actually loved how she was so unpretentious. I remember in the commentary Holly said growing up Olive Garden was a treat for her too-that her parents would take her there on her birthday. I think Kendra brought up being from 'the hood" (which Holly mocked her for lol) and not having much more than the other girls, but I think all of them came from somewhat humble backgrounds. That's probably why the mansion (however old and dirty) and the lifestyle that came along with it was so appealing to the girls. Some of the girlfriends had more than others, but I don't think any of them grew up with doctors for parents or anything like that. 

Yes! And even the books written by various exes are their perceptions. Izzy seemed entitled and whiny when she didn't get her way like with the car situation. Holly? While I have no doubt she went through a lot and Hef liked the power and mind games, I think she exaggerated her misery on some parts because she took genuine enjoyment in certain things like her job, the perks, her bunny customized Cayenne. I think that comes from being so far removed from it all, sick of talking about it or getting asked about it all the time and quite honestly I do believe she's still bitter that's how she became famous. She touched on it a tiny bit in the first book. 

Right? I remember on the old boards someone mentioned the same thing but it was about her clothing. While Holly was carrying LV bags and wearing Dior, Bridget wore some higher end brands too but Kendra had a Baby Phat bag and Aeropostale sweats to her those basic mall brands were fanc, something to strive for. I liked that. 

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Yes! And even the books written by various exes are their perceptions. Izzy seemed entitled and whiny when she didn't get her way like with the car situation. Holly? While I have no doubt she went through a lot and Hef liked the power and mind games, I think she exaggerated her misery on some parts because she took genuine enjoyment in certain things like her job, the perks, her bunny customized Cayenne. I think that comes from being so far removed from it all, sick of talking about it or getting asked about it all the time and quite honestly I do believe she's still bitter that's how she became famous. She touched on it a tiny bit in the first book. 

Right? I remember on the old boards someone mentioned the same thing but it was about her clothing. While Holly was carrying LV bags and wearing Dior, Bridget wore some higher end brands too but Kendra had a Baby Phat bag and Aeropostale sweats to her those basic mall brands were fanc, something to strive for. I liked that. 

Yeah Holly more or less admits all the girls were there because of the lifestyle, not love at first sight with Hef. I thought she enjoyed the First Lady of the mansion situation when I watched GND, and I’m sure Holly did love all the perks. She probably resents that people think she got rich merely being Hef’s gf, so she doesn’t want to focus too much on all she got from him. Bridget also said one of the biggest misconceptions about the girls is that they are rich. 

I’m a Holly fan and don’t like to see her picked apart too much. (There was one interview I saw-Sway actually-where he quite bluntly tells her she enjoyed the feast and complained about it afterwards. I suppose it’s a fair thing to think, but I felt bad for Holly watching the interview due to his delivery.) But as far as how she got her fame and the entire situation she was involved in, it is what it is. She didn’t briefly date Hef. She didn’t take off her clothes just once. She didn’t ditch GND after a season. She hit the spotlight due to being Hef’s #1 gf, GND, and Playboy. I don’t think she should be labeled a bimbo or a gold digger for the rest of her life, but you can’t pretend Hef and Playboy didn’t play a part into her becoming a reality star. Holly’s World and Peep Show wouldn’t have happened without GND and dating Hef. That doesn’t mean Holly isn’t beautiful, hardworking or intelligent. They are just the facts of how she spent her 20’s. 

There are other women who wanted to be famous/make it in Hollywood like Holly, but they refused to go about it the way Holly did. They wait tables, take acting classes when they can afford them on the side, do theatre for little to no pay, live in modest apartments with roommates, drive normal cars, no plastic surgery, no living at the salon, designer clothes, expensive restaurants, etc. She has every right to evolve and look down on Playboy now and not want her daughter to ever be in a dating situation similar to the one she was in with Hef, but she can’t erase such a huge part of her life or pretend she first became famous as an author or a showgirl. 

Kendra didn’t try to be sophisticated at all. Lol Remember her asking Roberto Cavalli about Olive Garden?

Edited July 28, 2019 by RealHousewife

[LemonSoda]

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Yeah Holly more or less admits all the girls were there because of the lifestyle, not love at first sight with Hef. I thought she enjoyed the First Lady of the mansion situation when I watched GND, and I’m sure Holly did love all the perks. She probably resents that people think she got rich merely being Hef’s gf, so she doesn’t want to focus too much on all she got from him. Bridget also said one of the biggest misconceptions about the girls is that they are rich. 

I’m a Holly fan and don’t like to see her picked apart too much. (There was one interview I saw-Sway actually-where he quite bluntly tells her she enjoyed the feast and complained about it afterwards. I suppose it’s a fair thing to think, but I felt bad for Holly watching the interview due to his delivery.) But as far as how she got her fame and the entire situation she was involved in, it is what it is. She didn’t briefly date Hef. She didn’t take off her clothes just once. She didn’t ditch GND after a season. She hit the spotlight due to being Hef’s #1 gf, GND, and Playboy. I don’t think she should be labeled a bimbo or a gold digger for the rest of her life, but you can’t pretend Hef and Playboy didn’t play a part into her becoming a reality star. Holly’s World and Peep Show wouldn’t have happened without GND and dating Hef. That doesn’t mean Holly isn’t beautiful, hardworking or intelligent. They are just the facts of how she spent her 20’s. 

There are other women who wanted to be famous/make it in Hollywood like Holly, but they refused to go about it the way Holly did. They wait tables, take acting classes when they can afford them on the side, do theatre for little to no pay, live in modest apartments with roommates, drive normal cars, no plastic surgery, no living at the salon, designer clothes, expensive restaurants, etc. She has every right to evolve and look down on Playboy now and not want her daughter to ever be in a dating situation similar to the one she was in with Hef, but she can’t erase such a huge part of her life or pretend she first became famous as an author or a showgirl. 

Kendra didn’t try to be sophisticated at all. Lol Remember her asking Roberto Cavalli about Olive Garden?

They were all there for the same reasons so it's amusing when in their books different girls accuse each other of not being there for the right reasons. Holly thought it would be a temporary fun springboard to better things and before the show came out wrote she was bitter that's how she was going to get famous. Even with Peepshow and Holly's World she's always Holly from the GND and she seems to hate that. So much of it is still too new. 

Will she feel the same in 20 years? I think of an interview with Edie Falco where the interviewer asked if she was bitter because she's done such amazing work since The Sopranos but to the world she's always Carmela. She said it can be frustrating when you're trying to do other work but you have to embrace it to go forward and be grateful that people like you, know who you are. Julia Louis Dreyfus said something similar when asked about being Elaine forever even with all her other work. 

YES! Moments like that were what made Kendra so endearing to others! 

[RealHousewife]

13 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

They were all there for the same reasons so it's amusing when in their books different girls accuse each other of not being there for the right reasons. Holly thought it would be a temporary fun springboard to better things and before the show came out wrote she was bitter that's how she was going to get famous. Even with Peepshow and Holly's World she's always Holly from the GND and she seems to hate that. So much of it is still too new. 

Will she feel the same in 20 years? I think of an interview with Edie Falco where the interviewer asked if she was bitter because she's done such amazing work since The Sopranos but to the world she's always Carmela. She said it can be frustrating when you're trying to do other work but you have to embrace it to go forward and be grateful that people like you, know who you are. Julia Louis Dreyfus said something similar when asked about being Elaine forever even with all her other work. 

YES! Moments like that were what made Kendra so endearing to others! 

Exactly. All the gf's have this attitude of like "I am different from all the other girls."

On GND Holly most wanted to sell that she was in love with Hef. I think she was honest when she said she wanted to make the best of the situation, grew to really care about him, and wanted to be the best girlfriend she could be. But part of why she got some of the questions she got after she left him is because of all the stuff she went along with on GND. She played it like she loved him in a way the other girls didn't, that she wanted to get pregnant by him, that she was jealous of the other girls. She acted like a normal girlfriend in a lot of ways, who was annoyed she had to share her man and wanted to settle down and live a normal life (normal as you could with someone his age). So when people would say "I'm sorry Hef didn't marry you," I get why it would annoy her. But she has to understand it's confusing to the fans that she went from "So much in love, being a Playmate wouldn't compare, Hef is always sweet, a total gentleman, I can't wait for the other girls to leave. Hef make me a mom," to "I got in over my head. I never planned on staying there so long. Hef made me feel bad about myself. I cried in that episode because I thought I'd never have real love (not because I was scared of losing Hef)." 

I do love how appreciative Kendra was of Hef. It's entirely possible he really was a lot nicer to her than to Holly, and it's true she wasn't there as long as Holly was. But as much as the relationship was gross in some ways, I swear I saw something truly sweet. I think because she didn't have a father figure growing up and despite Patti's efforts, it still wasn't enough to keep her out of trouble, Hef did save her. And then things got sour with her mother, and her grandparents weren't around anymore. I could be wrong, but I think there as a genuine affection between Kendra and Hef that I don't think you can fake for the cameras. That's not to say Kendra would have become his gf if he were some poor schmuck and Hef would have wanted her as a girlfriend if she were homely, but I do think they did care about each other past the mansion. When you haven't had a lot of people to rely on, particularly a father, I can see Kendra really appreciating Hef. Holly didn't strike me as someone who was super close to her parents, but it does sound like she had the more stable upbringing between the two. 

Definitely! To a lot of people, Olive Garden isn't the fast food of Italian, it's a nice restaurant, and shopping at any of the mall stores rather than a thrift store or Walmart is what rich people do. I loved the glamour of Holly and Bridget and seeing the nice things they'd wear (Holly was more into designer than all of them), but totally found this endearing of Kendra. Kendra was this normal young girl who was a tomboy who happened to look the way she did and wound up at the mansion. She was very different in that she didn't dream of being a Playmate, and I don't think she yearned for a cozy lifestyle until she got it. If she never became Hef's gf, I could see Kendra not caring either way if she ever married rich or lived in a mansion. An accountant with a nice house and a nice car probably would have been considered a big catch to Kendra. I think Holly's dad mentioned Holly always planned on marrying rich in a TV special.

Edited July 28, 2019 by RealHousewife

[Tatum]

Confession time: I actually really like the Olive Garden.

And while I totally get the jokes about it, I think it is sort of tone deaf when someone makes a social media post along the lines of "So, this is happening. We are eating at Chili's/Olive Garden/Red Lobster," etc. I get it, they are trying to be self deprecating, but acting like they are somehow lowering themselves by eating at a place that is probably a treat for like 50% of the U.S. population is the kind of remark that screams "privilege". Also, to me it screams pretentious. If you don't like it, you certainly don't have to patronize it, but you don't have to make a public post about it when you finally do deign to eat there.

Back to topic, I totally agree Kendra's love for the Olive Garden was one of the few redeeming qualities I saw in her.

[RealHousewife]

Exactly. I think it's funny when celebs are like. "I have a budget and try to save money. I shop at places like Anthropologie." I know everything's relative and there are pricier stores, but for a lot of people, a store that sells a lot of items that are several hundred bucks each, isn't exactly thrifty. 

[LemonSoda]

Absolutely! They all play the game of "I was different" and they're not. Even Izzy going on and on about her education. She did the same thing all the other girls did post mansion, wealthy man to wealthy man. Nothing about using it to empower herself. Everyone was at the mansion for the same reason. A boost, fame, a cozy life. 

I think Holly actually had those genuine feelings at one time. I'm not sure how long they lasted or what but I do believe at one time she really did love him or thought she did and wanted that happily ever after but admitting that would be too embarrassing and not stop the influx of Hef related questions. Also as insane as this sounds I truly believe Hef was genuine when he said he should've married her, not marrying her was a mistake. I know he's been written by many as awful and abusive but for all the analyzation and excuses for themselves for their choices, behavior many of the women have made - they have never looked at anything from Hef's angle. He was as emotionally damaged, if not more than they were. He came from a place where everyone he loved either cheated on him, used him or turned on him. That alone would make someone thrive on power. Not trying to be the male sympathizer here but it's food for thought. 

You know I truly believe it when Kendra said Hef saved her life. I think she was in and came from a darker place than she's ever been willing to tell and that's okay we don't need to know all of anyone secrets. But if the meth issues are true that alone says all I need to know. She alluded to those on MySpace back in the day. Other times she said Hef pulled her out of a bad situation. Even as gross and vulgar as she got in her defense of him which again I still say she went about it the wrong way, I understand why she's so defensive of him. Without moving in to the mansion she could still be an addict or worse, dead. He was the Father figure and protector she never had. 

I also remember on MySpace she made a big deal out of adidas jogging pants and a bra that premansion were considered unattainable to her. True! I still love Holly, always will but I do think she's a bit more calculating than she'll ever admit to. 

Tatum, I love it too! I haven't been to one in years. I need to correct that soon. Ugh, I hate that on social media! That $80 dinner bill is a huge treat or splurge for millions.

RealHousewife, that kills me! There's a model/actress I follow and it kills me when she tries constantly to do all this relatable stuff because it's not. To her it might be. She's been in the industry over two decades and she married well. So the $600 skincare faves, the $538 makeup tutorial is cheap to her. It's like, I really like you but please stop because we see in your pictures your house isn't full of the crafts you make or DIY things. 

Even places like Kohl's aren't in some budgets,I see comments from girls who save up to splurge on the Lauren Conrad stuff. So all this oh so relatable stuff can stop.