Hercule Poirot - General Discussion

[mellyf]

51 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

I haven’t watched any of those, so thank you for the warning! I did see Branagh’s MotOE. It was ok, but not great. To be honest, much as I adore Suchet, I didn’t care for his Orient Express. Too dark — figuratively and literally. It’s been a few years, but as I recall, there was a level of mental anguish for Poirot that I don’t recall in the book. Also, it was so dark, I really couldn’t keep track of the characters. That story has a lot of characters — all important — and that’s one area I think the Finney movie did well. Casting big stars made it easier to tell them all apart.

Anyway, I love Suchet (his travelogue about riding the real Orient Express was a lot of fun and a nice bit of travel porn) but some of the adaptions with him are not great. Cards on the Table comes to mind.

 

I really dislike when the overall film is too dark too see what's going on. It's been awhile since I've seen that version, but I do have a vague recollection that it was definitely dark. It's been even longer since I've read the book, but I think you're also right about some type of mental anguish that wasn't in the book.

And on a different note, I am now off to google his travelogue about riding the OE!

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I am up to season/series 9. I’ve read how and why Hastings returns in the series finale, but do we ever see his wife again? He refers to her, and there’s always a reason why she’s not there in England when Hastings is. I know I’ve seen the last of him in “Killing in Mesopotamia” and I’m sad about that. And Japp is gone too! Those three made a great team. I’ll miss the comedic elements with Japp and Hastings’ “Good Lord!” 🥲

But I will continue to watch because I adore David Suchet.

After I’m done, I’m going to hunt down every interview I can find with him.

[Ceindreadh]

@GHScorpiosRule do you mean the series finale Curtain: Poirot's last case?

In the books, most of the time when Hastings returns to England after his marriage, his wife is mentioned as running their estates in South America.

By the time of Curtain however,

she has died and one of their sons is running the estate when Hastings returns to England

(although why I'm spoiling an almost 50 year old book, I don't know!)

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

@GHScorpiosRule do you mean the series finale Curtain: Poirot's last case?

In the books, most of the time when Hastings returns to England after his marriage, his wife is mentioned as running their estates in South America.

By the time of Curtain however,

  Hide contents

she has died and one of their sons is running the estate when Hastings returns to England

 

(although why I'm spoiling an almost 50 year old book, I don't know!)

Yes. And I was being deliberately vague because I wasn’t sure if I’d be spoiling if I mentioned I knew about Hastings’ wife.

 

[krankydoodle]

Has anyone read Poirot and Me by David Suchet? I keep meaning to pick it up but I just have too many other books on the go right now.

[MMEButterfly]

44 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

Has anyone read Poirot and Me by David Suchet? I keep meaning to pick it up but I just have too many other books on the go right now.

I have. It was quite enjoyable. Suchet took portraying Poirot very seriously. From time-to-time he had to against an inconsistent change to be made. He kept Poirot pure. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

SAVE ME!!!! I’m finding after watching each episode, trying to find where I can buy those glasses Poirot or the characters use to drink…Sherry? Even though I’m not a fan of that particular spirit. But they’re so pretty and elegant!

After taking a break and rewatching another childhood favorite, I’m back to Poirot. Watching “Five Little Pigs” now.

Aaaand, Toby Stephens! In both Marple and Poirot!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sigh. I miss the opening theme from the first 6-7 seasons. I don’t like the openings from Season 9 onward. The music is all…wrong! 

I also miss Miss Lemon, Japp, and Hastings. Ariadne Oliver ANNOYS me. That’s probably blasphemy, but I don’t care.

And while Suchet is THE DEFINITIVE Poirot for me, these last few seasons aren’t as good. That is, the stories aren’t really keeping my attention as there is not enough of Poirot! Seems he’s more of a guest star in these episodes than the lead character he’s supposed to be!

Finishing season 10 now. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m down to the last two episodes and I’m watching with a very heavy heart. Because I know what happens in the series finale.

I think I’ll rewatch the first episode again when I’m done.

[GHScorpiosRule]

What the what? WHAT was THAT????!!!!! Horrible, horrible end to the series and disservice to this wonderful character. And they couldn't do a funeral because they had one in "The Four" when they thought Poirot had been killed? But turned out he hadn't? So Miss Lemon and Japp couldn't appear in the finale? In hindsight, that's a good thing.

I LOATHED Hastings' daughter. Had we seen or heard of her before?

[dgpolo]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

What the what? WHAT was THAT????!!!!! Horrible, horrible end to the series and disservice to this wonderful character.

Not sure what you mean by this? As far as I remember, and I haven't read the book in a while, this adaptation was pretty close to the book, at least as far as Poirot's actions are concerned. This is how Christie chose to end Poirot's career.

Hastings is pretty clueless most of the time and especially in this episode, I can understand at least -most- of Judith's actions.

[GHScorpiosRule]

17 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

Not sure what you mean by this? As far as I remember, and I haven't read the book in a while, this adaptation was pretty close to the book, at least as far as Poirot's actions are concerned. This is how Christie chose to end Poirot's career.

Doesn't mean I have to like it. And I didn't. Poirot deserved better. And what he did -based on all the episodes I watched (haven't had a chance to read them yet), was out of character. Norton was the WORST of the WORST who he felt he had to kill? Not from where I'm sitting.

Just my opinion.

[dgpolo]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

was out of character. Norton was the WORST of the WORST who he felt he had to kill? Not from where I'm sitting.

Just my opinion.

I could see it, not only was Norton responsible for at least several murders, he almost made Hastings a murderer too. This was a case of Poirot's sense of justice, overcoming his ethics. The man needed to die to protect innocents, no one could bring him to justice. Poirot was going to die anyway so he took it on himself to serve justice in this way, overriding his Catholic upbringing. It may be if Poirot was younger and healthy he could have found some other way to stop the man, but knowing what he knew, watching Hastings fall victim to Norton, he did what he thought he must.

 

[Jalyn]

In addition, it shows just how dangerous Norton really was. Not only did he turn Hastings into a murderer*, he turned Poirot into one as well. In the end, Norton won, even if it was the only way that he could be stopped.

The series at least tried to build to this ending by showcasing the numerous times that he chose to be sure justice was served rather than the law. (Several times when he let a murderer commit suicide, letting the guilty go (but not happily) in MotOE)

*As I recall, Hastings didn't decide not to poison his daughter's boyfriend, Poirot saved the man silently. 

[mellyf]

2 hours ago, dgpolo said:

Not sure what you mean by this? As far as I remember, and I haven't read the book in a while, this adaptation was pretty close to the book, at least as far as Poirot's actions are concerned. This is how Christie chose to end Poirot's career.

Hastings is pretty clueless most of the time and especially in this episode, I can understand at least -most- of Judith's actions.

Yes, it's been awhile since I've read Curtain, but it was pretty faithful to the book. Poirot explains (in a letter) to Hastings that since Norton didn't do the killings directly, there was no way to bring him to justice for the murders that he instigated, and since Poirot was basically dying anyway, he chose to bring him to justice in his own way. 

As I recall, Hastings didn't decide not to poison his daughter's boyfriend, Poirot saved the man silently. 

Yes, Poirot realized what was happening and drugged Hastings so he fell asleep and then Hastings was overwhelmingly relieved when he woke up and came to his senses!

Edited to add: From what I remember reading years ago, she wrote both Curtain and Sleeping Murder (the last Marple) years before they were published, with the intention that they be published posthumously, which they were. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by mellyf

[GHScorpiosRule]

Saving Hastings from killing the guy his daughter was canoodling with, but not in love with, that would be Dr. Franklin, I get.

And on the show, it was the Doctor's wife, who set out to kill him with the poisoned coffee, and Hastings inadvertently "killed" her when he swung the credenza to find Othello. So I don't know how Norton was responsible for that?

Anyway, I'm not doubting or questioning that it wasn't faithful to the book.

I just didn't like how it ended or that he died alone. And that neither Ms. Lemon or Japp were there to say good-bye for real this time. Or George.

[Jalyn]

1 hour ago, mellyf said:

Edited to add: From what I remember reading years ago, she wrote both Curtain and Sleeping Murder (the last Marple) years before they were published, with the intention that they be published posthumously, which they were. 

Definitely true. As I recall, they were written during WWII, but it was definitely decades before either were published. I believe that she actually put them in a safety deposit box or something like that.

It's been quite a few years since I've seen the episode. Did they not have Hastings actually try to poison Dr. Franklin? That I would actually call a fault in the episode. Hastings being actually tempted into murder by what Norton says is what clearly shows that he HAD to be brought down. Regardless, I think I watched this show in fits and starts so I didn't have the emotional let down that you are describing. I can see that being disappointing. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 10/4/2023 at 1:56 PM, Jalyn said:

Did they not have Hastings actually try to poison Dr. Franklin?

No. He was trying to poison Allerton, the young dude who was having the affair with the nurse. Hastings daughter didn't clarify to him that she and Allerton weren't involved because his attitude pissed her off.

He learned she was going to marry Dr. Franklin after Poirot died; and that's when she told him she just kissed Allerton, but wasn't involved with him. That was in the show. Don't know if it was different in the book.

What I will say is that I loved how the show ended with the image of Poirot with his typical poker face. At least I have that.

Now for technical nits.

The seasons were wonky with the closed captioning. Sometimes they would show the French words Poirot would say, like Bien tot, merci, si vous plait, n'est se pas, etc. Other seasons, they would have "speaking foreign language" which just irked.

Edited October 10, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[mellyf]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Saving Hastings from killing the guy his daughter was canoodling with, but not in love with, that would be Dr. Franklin, I get.

And on the show, it was the Doctor's wife, who set out to kill him with the poisoned coffee, and Hastings inadvertently "killed" her when he swung the credenza to find Othello. So I don't know how Norton was responsible for that?

Anyway, I'm not doubting or questioning that it wasn't faithful to the book.

I just didn't like how it ended or that he died alone. And that neither Ms. Lemon or Japp were there to say good-bye for real this time. Or George.

Like the previous poster, it's been years since I've watched the episode. I think I remember the book a little better, only because I've read it multiple times. If I remember correctly, in regards to the Dr's wife, Norton had been working on her as well, which was why she was trying to poison her husband. But yes, in Poirot's letter to Hastings, P tells H that he (Hastings) was the one who killed the Dr's wife by swinging the credenza around.

It's been so many years since I read the book, I imagine I was pretty devastated when it ended the way it did, so I totally get why you were upset with the ending.

[krankydoodle]

I've been rewatching some episodes and it really struck me this time how awful Poirot could be to some of the suspects when he gathers everyone together for the final reveal. In Mrs. McGinty's Dead, one of my favorite episodes, he points the finger pretty strongly at two different people before naming the real killer. One was kind of a jerk, but still. I know it's to heighten the tension and draw out the reveal, but the amount of time he spent painting each as the potential killer seemed excessive.

Speaking of that episode, I was delighted to find out that there's a Swedish crime-comedy tv show titled Agatha Christie's Hjerson based on Ariadne Oliver's fictional detective. Has anyone watched it? Or listened to Audible's dramatization of The Mysterious Affair at Styles with Peter Dinklage as Poirot? As on Game of Thrones, his accent can be a bit shaky and Rob Delaney gets over the top for me as Alfred Inglethorp, but I thought it was solid overall. It's been a long time since I read the book or watched the tv episode, but I think this makes some minor plot changes and leans darker by spending more time on Hastings's trauma from the war.

[dgpolo]

5 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

I've been rewatching some episodes and it really struck me this time how awful Poirot could be to some of the suspects when he gathers everyone together for the final reveal.

I don't think, in the books, that most characters are defined enough for me to care about them much. Her characters are usually painted with broad strokes and are more like puzzle pieces than actual people. (my opinion only of course) I'm trying to think of any I had any special sympathy/empathy for and can only come up with the ones on the Orient Express and you know about them.....

Most of the time, most of the people lie to Poirot at one point or another, some are condescending or bigoted, I just don't think I care much if he takes them to task.

[krankydoodle]

That's fair. I think it plays out differently for me when the characters are played by actors I recognize. It bothered me in Cat Among the Pigeons when he floated an accusation against a character played by Claire Skinner who'd almost just been murdered herself and then hinted at the recent miscarriage she'd been trying to keep secret. I still love Poirot and the show, but those kinds of jabs stood out to me more than when I first watched these episodes.