Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[peacheslatour]

So I'm watching Probability right now and while it's an entertaining episode, it's just a little too convenient that the actuary they brought in the explain the insurance industry to G&E just happens to be the murderer. And Cousin Larry sighting! Balki played the dentist that was married to the woman who was poisoned by her sister.

[Xeliou66]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

So I'm watching Probability right now and while it's an entertaining episode, it's just a little too convenient that the actuary they brought in the explain the insurance industry to G&E just happens to be the murderer. And Cousin Larry sighting! Balki played the dentist that was married to the woman who was poisoned by her sister.

Probability was entertaining but incredibly convoluted, I had trouble following the plot from point to point, and I agree that it was very coincidental that the guy they brought in as a consultant was the killer. 

In contrast to this, See Me was on right before it - this is one of my favorite episodes, really intricate and strong plot, but never too hard to follow, I liked how the investigation progressed from the Garcia’s fraud scheme to Dysart’s experiments, good case with interesting characters. Deakins and Carver had nice roles as well in this episode, all too often they were barely used. And we got a bit of insight into Goren and his experience with the mentally ill without it being at all soapy, like it became in season 6. 

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Probability was entertaining but incredibly convoluted, I had trouble following the plot from point to point, and I agree that it was very coincidental that the guy they brought in as a consultant was the killer. 

In contrast to this, See Me was on right before it - this is one of my favorite episodes, really intricate and strong plot, but never too hard to follow, I liked how the investigation progressed from the Garcia’s fraud scheme to Dysart’s experiments, good case with interesting characters. Deakins and Carver had nice roles as well in this episode, all too often they were barely used. And we got a bit of insight into Goren and his experience with the mentally ill without it being at all soapy, like it became in season 6. 

The butchering of peoples eyes freaked me out though.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

The butchering of peoples eyes freaked me out though.

Yes it was creepy. Dysart was somewhat sympathetic due to his illness but he was doing fucked up stuff - I would’ve liked to have known more about his mental state, apparently he was not competent to stand trial because Carver accepted his insanity plea, I would’ve liked to have known more about his state of mind, another episode where Skoda or Olivet could’ve been in.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Xeliou66

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it was creepy. Dysart was somewhat sympathetic due to his illness but he was doing fucked up stuff - I would’ve liked to have known more about his mental state, apparently he was not competent to stand trial because Carver accepted his insanity plea, I would’ve liked to have known more about his state of mind, another episode where Skoda or Olivet could’ve been in.

And just once I would have liked to see Dr. Huang come in.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it was creepy. Dysart was somewhat sympathetic due to his illness but he was doing fucked up stuff - I would’ve liked to have known more about his mental state, apparently he was not competent to stand trial because Carver accepted his insanity plea, I would’ve liked to have known more about his state of mind, another episode where Skoda or Olivet could’ve been in.

Well, the schizophrenia, in and of itself, would have made it easier to take that insanity plea. Dysart butchering eyes was gross and wrong, but it's clear his disease warped his thinking so much that he actually believed what he was doing would "cure" his patients (and maybe himself).

So I get why he seemed, while the one doing a lot of the damage, somewhat sympathetic.

I never really got in to "Probability" much, but I did like seeing Wally pop up again in "Endgame" in S6. As I have said, this show was pretty good where callbacks were concerned. (And I still wish Bronson Pinchot's evil dentist Gregory from "Beast" from S4 was there for the Perfect Strangers reunion! Alas, it was not to be.)

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, the schizophrenia, in and of itself, would have made it easier to take that insanity plea. Dysart butchering eyes was gross and wrong, but it's clear his disease warped his thinking so much that he actually believed what he was doing would "cure" his patients (and maybe himself).

So I get why he seemed, while the one doing a lot of the damage, somewhat sympathetic.

I never really got in to "Probability" much, but I did like seeing Wally pop up again in "Endgame" in S6. As I have said, this show was pretty good where callbacks were concerned. (And I still wish Bronson Pinchot's evil dentist Gregory from "Beast" from S4 was there for the Perfect Strangers reunion! Alas, it was not to be.)

Yes I just would’ve liked a bit more insight into Dysart’s mental state, because it seemed like the murder he committed of the doctor at the start was premeditated and definitely done to cover up his butchery, which casts some doubt on just how insane he was, but if he genuinely believed he had to commit the murder because he was “helping” his patients then I guess he was insane. Like I say, I would’ve liked Skoda or Olivet’s opinion.

It’s one of my favorite episodes, like I said a strong, intricate case with an interesting villain, and never too hard to follow unlike some CI episodes.

[WendyCR72]

"Frame" has just begun on Sundance and...yay! That means the end of Nicole! (In the CI universe, at any rate!) Still hate how Ross just suddenly assumes Goren is a killer.

Glad Eames pushed back there.

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Frame" has just begun on Sundance and...yay! That means the end of Nicole! (In the CI universe, at any rate!) Still hate how Ross just suddenly assumes Goren is a killer.

Glad Eames pushed back there.

Ross was such a douche - he had absolutely no trust in his detectives and was routinely a condescending dick to them. But even Nicole’s ending was disappointing, killing her offscreen by another villain was such a lousy way to conclude what had become a completely ridiculous storyline. She should’ve been killed on screen by Goren/Eames. Also dislike Frame for how Rodgers gave up Goren’s personal info, it was the only time in the franchise I disliked the normally awesome Rodgers, Goren had every right to go bonkers. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Ross was such a douche - he had absolutely no trust in his detectives and was routinely a condescending dick to them. But even Nicole’s ending was disappointing, killing her offscreen by another villain was such a lousy way to conclude what had become a completely ridiculous storyline. She should’ve been killed on screen by Goren/Eames. Also dislike Frame for how Rodgers gave up Goren’s personal info, it was the only time in the franchise I disliked the normally awesome Rodgers, Goren had every right to go bonkers. 

Yeah, as you know, I agree with all that. And while I do wish it was Goren and/or Eames to off Nicole, at least she was gone, so... Yeah. "Frame" was another good callback episode, mentioning Donnie (although Evelyn Carson being sort of a bitch because Goren 'didn't take a better interest in his nephew' bugged me. Bobby should have told her that maybe he would have if he had known Donnie existed, but whatever!), Declan Gage popping up, Jo mentions, and seeing Gwen again - even though her ending up with cancer as was hinted in S5 was sad. The actress, Molly Gottlieb, really aged in two short years! Not to mention G/E filling in Ross on all the folks Nicole killed.

Speaking of Donnie, I'm sort of glad that his fate was never resolved. Real life is not always tied up in a pretty bow, so I appreciate that Donnie and his whereabouts remained a mystery.

[WendyCR72]

We talked about "F.P.S." before (now on WE). It's such a strange episode. As someone else said, there almost - besides the other theme of "partner abandonment" with the perp and Goren - is a homoerotic bent, too. I can't decide if the perp was just really attached to his partner or if he was in love with the guy.

Either way, I felt for his wife. And poor victim Corinne.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

We talked about "F.P.S." before (now on WE). It's such a strange episode. As someone else said, there almost - besides the other theme of "partner abandonment" with the perp and Goren - is a homoerotic bent, too. I can't decide if the perp was just really attached to his partner or if he was in love with the guy.

Either way, I felt for his wife. And poor victim Corinne.

God almighty FPS was so confusing. I still can’t figure out how they got from place to place at the start of the episode, it was just way too convoluted. Best part of the episode was Deakins saying when they caught the killer he owed him a bottle of aspirin, that line was spot on. And yeah I can’t figure out whether the perp was in love with his business partner or just had a weird attachment to him. Just a strange, overly complicated episode all around. 

[peacheslatour]

Watching Pas De Deux right now. The way Goren forces Donny to dance with him. Yikes.

Edited June 4, 2021 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Watching Pas De Deux right now. The way Goren forces Donny to dance with him. Yikes.

I loved that. Typical Goren. 😋 And I love that it was Eames who slipped those tablets in Donnie's pocket, so Margie the ninny would finally crack.

[peacheslatour]

OK, watching In The Dark yet again. Butch is stealing cars and killing people for money. He's giving the money to Rose for "Jenny", her nonexistent daughter. I listened very carefully and I still don't know what the hell she did with the money. Aaarrrggghhh!

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

OK, watching In The Dark yet again. Butch is stealing cars and killing people for money. He's giving the money to Rose for "Jenny", her nonexistent daughter. I listened very carefully and I still don't know what the hell she did with the money. Aaarrrggghhh!

Yeah that remains a mystery. Butch was a gullible fool and a psychopath, I felt zero sympathy for him as he had no problem killing several people just to get money to send to his wife’s daughter that he never even met, how was he not suspicious about Jenny? And I disliked Rose as well, she was basically delusional, and I have no idea what happened to the money either.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

OK, watching In The Dark yet again. Butch is stealing cars and killing people for money. He's giving the money to Rose for "Jenny", her nonexistent daughter. I listened very carefully and I still don't know what the hell she did with the money. Aaarrrggghhh!

I know! The money all went for sweet pickles for Rose's famous tuna fish!  😛 (Hey, it's as good a guess as any!) Season 4 was filled with dark, creepy episodes, but this one was one of the creepiest. Although using the stone baby phenomenon was quite a twist since the condition is so rare.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know! The money all went for sweet pickles for Rose's famous tuna fish!  😛 (Hey, it's as good a guess as any!) Season 4 was filled with dark, creepy episodes, but this one was one of the creepiest. Although using the stone baby phenomenon was quite a twist since the condition is so rare.

As we’ve discussed before, season 4 was certainly dark, weird and creepy, but I agree In the Dark is arguably the creepiest episode of the season, I would say it and Want were the 2 creepiest season 4 episodes and 2 of the creepiest on the whole show.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

As we’ve discussed before, season 4 was certainly dark, weird and creepy, but I agree In the Dark is arguably the creepiest episode of the season, I would say it and Want were the 2 creepiest season 4 episodes and 2 of the creepiest on the whole show.

I still can't watch Magnificat. When that POS husband brings his wife home from the hospital and tells her she'll be sleeping in her dead boys room from now on, I just lose it.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I still can't watch Magnificat. When that POS husband brings his wife home from the hospital and tells her she'll be sleeping in her dead boys room from now on, I just lose it.

As far as pure depressing and horrifying goes, Magnificat is right up there at the top. I would put No Exit in the same category, it was just completely horrifying and bleak with no real sympathetic character and the sight of the guy trying to get out of the car with the train approaching not knowing he was part of a suicide pact was just horrifying. And yes Magnificat is the same way, just very bleak. And it was the one time I was disappointed with Carver, I thought he definitely could’ve charged the husband with some crime because he knowingly endangered his kids. 

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

As far as pure depressing and horrifying goes, Magnificat is right up there at the top. I would put No Exit in the same category, it was just completely horrifying and bleak with no real sympathetic character and the sight of the guy trying to get out of the car with the train approaching not knowing he was part of a suicide pact was just horrifying. And yes Magnificat is the same way, just very bleak. And it was the one time I was disappointed with Carver, I thought he definitely could’ve charged the husband with some crime because he knowingly endangered his kids. 

I loved Gorens's impassioned "Mr. Carver, please!"

[Xeliou66]

20 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I loved Gorens's impassioned "Mr. Carver, please!"

Yes I felt the same way as Goren did. I was disappointed with Carver and thought he was being too cautious. I think another prosecutor like McCoy or Cutter might’ve charged the husband. I think they could’ve made charges stick against the husband, I don’t know whether a jury would’ve convicted him but I think they should’ve at least tried, he was responsible to a great degree for the murders. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I felt the same way as Goren did. I was disappointed with Carver and thought he was being too cautious. I think another prosecutor like McCoy or Cutter might’ve charged the husband. I think they could’ve made charges stick against the husband, I don’t know whether a jury would’ve convicted him but I think they should’ve at least tried, he was responsible to a great degree for the murders. 

I wanted him dead just on general principle.

[WendyCR72]

I'm slow on the uptake again - especially considering how often I have seen these episodes! - but how did it not dawn on me until now that the actress playing Angela in "All In" from S8 [which aired on Sundance a couple hours ago!] was the same actress to play the "oh-my-God-is-she-annoying!" Lily Carmichael from "The Insider" all the way back in S1?

Yet I DID recognize it was her just fine on the Mothership in S14 (or thereabout) when the show did its take on the horrific fire at The Station in Rhode Island that she also appeared in. (The actress being Aleksa Palladino.)

[peacheslatour]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm slow on the uptake again - especially considering how often I have seen these episodes! - but how did it not dawn on me until now that the actress playing Angela in "All In" from S8 [which aired on Sundance a couple hours ago!] was the same actress to play the "oh-my-God-is-she-annoying!" Lily Carmichael from "The Insider" all the way back in S1?

Yet I DID recognize it was her just fine on the Mothership in S14 (or thereabout) when the show did its take on the horrific fire at The Station in Rhode Island that she also appeared in. (The actress being Aleksa Palladino.)

Apparently she's related in a very round about way to Amy Palladino. I wonder why she was never in a Gilmore Girls episode?

[WendyCR72]

CI seemed to like the "killed by mistaken identity" trope, since it was not only used in "And Not Forgotten" in S3 [the father of a lawyer with the same name was killed - supposed to be the son!] but in "Unchained", which is airing now on WE. (Son of a cop killed instead of said cop!)

You'd think these criminals would make sure the person they were offing was the correct victim! But their stupidity gets them caught, so I guess stupidity has its purpose!

 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

CI seemed to like the "killed by mistaken identity" trope, since it was not only used in "And Not Forgotten" in S3 [the father of a lawyer with the same name was killed - supposed to be the son!] but in "Unchained", which is airing now on WE. (Son of a cop killed instead of said cop!)

You'd think these criminals would make sure the person they were offing was the correct victim! But their stupidity gets them caught, so I guess stupidity has its purpose!

 

In Unchained, it wasn’t the cop who was the target, it was another guy with the same name and birthday as the cop’s son, the 2 mobsters just didn’t bother to double check that they had the right guy. I like Unchained a lot, it was a good, complex plot with dirty cops and mobsters. The main dirty cop, Virgini, was such an epic piece of shit who pimped his daughter out. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The main dirty cop, Virgini, was such an epic piece of shit who pimped his daughter out. 

David Keith plays such a convincing scumbag.

[Xeliou66]

36 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

David Keith plays such a convincing scumbag.

Yeah, he was a memorable villain, CI had a lot of them but Virgini stands out for being both a dirty cop and an awful parent - like Logan and Barek said at the end, it was easy to forget he was both a cop and a parent.

Unchained was really a good episode, it was chilling at the start when the 2 mobster scum drowned the wrong guy who had the same name as the guy they wanted dead. It had a good investigation and an interesting array of characters. I liked that they referenced Lennie Briscoe being framed for corruption as well in that one, good continuity. It was weird how Carver wasn’t in the episode, I would’ve liked to have seen him in it, it was back to back episodes without Carver, Prisoner and Unchained.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

In Unchained, it wasn’t the cop who was the target, it was another guy with the same name and birthday as the cop’s son, the 2 mobsters just didn’t bother to double check that they had the right guy. I like Unchained a lot, it was a good, complex plot with dirty cops and mobsters. The main dirty cop, Virgini, was such an epic piece of shit who pimped his daughter out. 

Yeah, David Keith played a real scumbag well. (He apparently also played Elvis in some TV movie decades ago.) He sounded like a complete douche even before his ex-wife died and Renata moved in. Too bad Renata didn't believe her mother [as was implied] about her sperm donor and had to learn the hard way.

[WendyCR72]

Every channel that airs this show, I notice the ads/bumpers always just show Goren/Eames. They are my favorites, but I do find it odd, even with other teams, that they are barely, if ever, represented.

Seems even more ironic today as Sundance is basically Goren-less now, showing S9. (Even if he and Eames were in the first two episodes!)

[WendyCR72]

"World's Fair", a.k.a. the episode with the most awful people EVER, just ended on WE.

And now, "Privilege" has begun, and I finally solved one mystery thanks to IMDB. The blonde female cop, who also appeared in "Vanishing Act", "Playing Dead", and "Trophy Wine", apparently actually had a name! Although I do not recall anyone ever addressing her by it.

The character's name was Det. Agnes Farley, played by Traci Godfrey. Cool! As I said prior, she seemed to have a dry wit herself.

ETA: Also always got a kick out of Undercover Daddy Goren, yelling at his nonexistent kid Max at the playground to "play nice". 😋

[peacheslatour]

Quote

ETA: Also always got a kick out of Undercover Daddy Goren, yelling at his nonexistent kid Max at the playground to "play nice". 😋

He was always great at improv when they were undercover. Like the time he was the "effete snob" in the high end shoe store. Or when he pretended to be an out of town fashion executive in Rispetto.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"World's Fair", a.k.a. the episode with the most awful people EVER, just ended on WE.

And now, "Privilege" has begun, and I finally solved one mystery thanks to IMDB. The blonde female cop, who also appeared in "Vanishing Act", "Playing Dead", and "Trophy Wine", apparently actually had a name! Although I do not recall anyone ever addressing her by it.

The character's name was Det. Agnes Farley, played by Traci Godfrey. Cool! As I said prior, she seemed to have a dry wit herself.

ETA: Also always got a kick out of Undercover Daddy Goren, yelling at his nonexistent kid Max at the playground to "play nice". 😋

As I’ve said before season 6 is my least favorite season, but I do like both World’s Fair and Privilege.

World’s Fair is probably my favorite of season 6, you are right that no one in that episode was likable. I liked seeing fiery Logan in that one and it was a good case, I liked the scenes at the Unisphere as well.

Privilege was pretty good also, the killer was immediately obvious IMO but it was still a good case.

I liked those 2 episodes because they felt more like classic CI, without any of the soapy elements that plagued season 6.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Privilege was pretty good also, the killer was immediately obvious IMO but it was still a good case.

One thing about "Privilege" that bugged, though, was Goren obviously stopped Lady Harrington's own son, Grant, and his bitchy wife from letting Lady Harrington die for her money.

Great.

But she seemed awfully willing to let that go. I remember she told Goren about some mix up in her medications, that Grant probably told her. But wouldn't her bank records/assets/loss of show Lady Harrington the truth?

Then again, even if she knew, blood is thicker than water, yada yada. But it still bugs.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

One thing about "Privilege" that bugged, though, was Goren obviously stopped Lady Harrington's own son, Grant, and his bitchy wife from letting Lady Harrington die for her money.

Great.

But she seemed awfully willing to let that go. I remember she told Goren about some mix up in her medications, that Grant probably told her. But wouldn't her bank records/assets/loss of show Lady Harrington the truth?

Then again, even if she knew, blood is thicker than water, yada yada. But it still bugs.

Yeah I agree it was a bit odd, but I loved Goren going into the room where Lady Harrington was and then telling Grant to sit down and shut up. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I agree it was a bit odd, but I loved Goren going into the room where Lady Harrington was and then telling Grant to sit down and shut up. 

I also loved that, and Eames' "I'd shut up if I were you." For all of Goren's mommy issues, it worked perfectly in that scene.

[WendyCR72]

"Offense" is on, the episode with the football players accused of rape. Not a favorite, but I think this was one episode where I sort of felt more sorry for the perp than the victim. The perp was a desperate mother trying to protect her (innocent) son from Andrew McCarthy's rabid DA and his shrew wife.

And the victim was lying about being attacked.

And had Gene's wife not tried to play "bad cop", telling the mother about all of the horrible outcomes for her kid, I doubt Peri Gilpin's character would have had reason to go off the deep end.

Gene seemed more into the hype of the trial than caring about the people involved (at least until the end, when even he seemed disgusted by his wife's antics).

Before "Offense", "Self Made" was on. Loved Goren trying to box with TJ and Alex's exasperated, "Oh, Bobby!"

(The last episode of the WE late-night block will be "Untethered", the "Bobby goes to a prison mental ward thanks to his newfound nephew, Donnie!" episode. That one always unsettles me.)

[peacheslatour]

Quote

(The last episode of the WE late-night block will be "Untethered", the "Bobby goes to a prison mental ward thanks to his newfound nephew, Donnie!" episode. That one always unsettles me.

I can't ever watch it again. Although VDO deserves all the acting awards for that one.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Offense" is on, the episode with the football players accused of rape. Not a favorite, but I think this was one episode where I sort of felt more sorry for the perp than the victim. The perp was a desperate mother trying to protect her (innocent) son from Andrew McCarthy's rabid DA and his shrew wife.

And the victim was lying about being attacked.

And had Gene's wife not tried to play "bad cop", telling the mother about all of the horrible outcomes for her kid, I doubt Peri Gilpin's character would have had reason to go off the deep end.

Gene seemed more into the hype of the trial than caring about the people involved (at least until the end, when even he seemed disgusted by his wife's antics).

Before "Offense", "Self Made" was on. Loved Goren trying to box with TJ and Alex's exasperated, "Oh, Bobby!"

(The last episode of the WE late-night block will be "Untethered", the "Bobby goes to a prison mental ward thanks to his newfound nephew, Donnie!" episode. That one always unsettles me.

I like Offense pretty good, it was an interesting, complex case and I liked how they had a lot of suspects to go through. The murder victim wasn’t the one who was lying about being raped, the murder victim was her friend who was going to be a witness - I felt sympathy for both victim and perp as the victim was going to do the right thing and tell the truth I believe, while the perp was trying to protect her son who had done nothing wrong. I really felt sorry for the falsely accused son and the husband of the perp, who had their lives ruined because of the power hungry asshole DA and his wife, they were the ones really responsible for the whole tragedy.

I think I like Offense because it was one that felt more like a classic CI case, without any of the soapy drama that plagued seasons 6-7. I think the Logan episodes were frequently better than the Goren/Eames episodes in those seasons. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I think the Logan episodes were frequently better than the Goren/Eames episodes in those seasons. 

In many ways this is true. I will say that although Det. Goren is my one true love, the Logan eps usually made a lot more sense.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

In many ways this is true. I will say that although Det. Goren is my one true love, the Logan eps usually made a lot more sense.

I love Goren/Eames and I love Logan as well - but during the seasons that Logan and Goren split episodes, it seems like Logan usually got the stronger episodes, particularly during seasons 6-7, as Goren/Eames were plagued by soapy dreck while Logan wasn’t. 

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I love Goren/Eames and I love Logan as well - but during the seasons that Logan and Goren split episodes, it seems like Logan usually got the stronger episodes, particularly during seasons 6-7, as Goren/Eames were plagued by soapy dreck while Logan wasn’t. 

Agreed. I'm watching Vanishing Act right now and Goren is messing around with Dean's Magical Disappearing box and he's all excited like a little kid and Eames is watching him with the biggest grin on her face.

Edited June 22, 2021 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:54 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I like Offense pretty good, it was an interesting, complex case and I liked how they had a lot of suspects to go through. The murder victim wasn’t the one who was lying about being raped, the murder victim was her friend who was going to be a witness

Yes, but Tracy also knew her friend was lying. It's why she was reluctant to testify. Don't forget, Tracy was religious. But the mom of the football player didn't know that.

On another note, the Tuesday Sundance marathon is on now (S9/S10), and I love when Alex calls the rapey Bishop in "The Consoler" slime. It fits him perfectly.

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I love Goren/Eames and I love Logan as well - but during the seasons that Logan and Goren split episodes, it seems like Logan usually got the stronger episodes, particularly during seasons 6-7, as Goren/Eames were plagued by soapy dreck while Logan wasn’t. 

And see, I always thought it was the other way around: Goren/Eames got episodes like "Endgame" with a big-name guest star in Roy Scheider, and Logan? Poor Logan got "Bombshell" with the Anna Nicole wannabe. Another example, in S7, Bobby/Alex got "Betrayed" and Chuck Schumer cameo. Logan investigates the death of a blackmailing gossip columnist an episode later.

And "Renewal", where Logan instantly falls for his doomed neighbor, Holly, and goes all ragey when she dies was one mess of an episode, with that and the whole thing with the cadet going on at once.

Sometimes the pattern changed, but it seemed to me that Logan/Barek/Wheeler got the less twisted episodes, maybe because Bobby was the psychology nut and Logan wasn't.

I really did like the Logan episode, "Senseless", from S7, though.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yes, but Tracy also knew her friend was lying. It's why she was reluctant to testify. Don't forget, Tracy was religious. But the mom of the football player didn't know that.

On another note, the Tuesday Sundance marathon is on now (S9/S10), and I love when Alex calls the rapey Bishop in "The Consoler" slime. It fits him perfectly.

Wasn’t Tracy going to tell the truth? The killer just didn’t know it. Like I said, I felt some sympathy for both, and I felt the power hungry DA and his wife were the real villains.

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And see, I always thought it was the other way around: Goren/Eames got episodes like "Endgame" with a big-name guest star in Roy Scheider, and Logan? Poor Logan got "Bombshell" with the Anna Nicole wannabe. Another example, in S7, Bobby/Alex got "Betrayed" and Chuck Schumer cameo. Logan investigates the death of a blackmailing gossip columnist an episode later.

And "Renewal", where Logan instantly falls for his doomed neighbor, Holly, and goes all ragey when she dies was one mess of an episode, with that and the whole thing with the cadet going on at once.

Sometimes the pattern changed, but it seemed to me that Logan/Barek/Wheeler got the less twisted episodes, maybe because Bobby was the psychology nut and Logan wasn't.

I really did like the Logan episode, "Senseless", from S7, though.

I just hated the soapy elements that hung over so many Goren/Eames episodes in seasons 6-7, starting with Eames being kidnapped in the first episode of season 6 and then the soapy drama with Goren’s mom and his brother and his bio dad being a killer. It really detracted from the show. There wasn’t nearly as many soapy elements in the Logan episodes, although I agree Renewal was crap (only good thing about it was Logan talking about Lennie Briscoe, that was awesome). And yes I really like Senseless as well, great episode.

[WendyCR72]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just hated the soapy elements that hung over so many Goren/Eames episodes in seasons 6-7

To be fair, one person's soapy dreck is another person's character study. 😊 As I had said prior, I sort of liked that the show went beyond the cases a bit and allowed to show the detectives as actual people and not just cardboard cutouts that were basically interchangeable for any given episode or case.

It's why I was glad when the Mothership did so when Lennie's daughter was murdered. The crimes are the main focus, but watching characters for so long, it's nice to know more about them, IMO. Although I will agree that stuff like "Aftershock" over on the Mothership went too far and out of character.

It's about balance, at least for me!

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I just hated the soapy elements that hung over so many Goren/Eames episodes in seasons 6-7, starting with Eames being kidnapped in the first episode of season 6 

See, I really like that episode because Eames kidnapping was quick, clean and she got away. They didn't drag it out like some of the Benson episodes on SVU. I also think VDO gave one of the best acting performances of the entire series in that one.

Quote

then the soapy drama with Goren’s mom and his brother and his bio dad being a killer. 

Agreed. I hated that one.

Edited June 22, 2021 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, one person's soapy dreck is another person's character study. 😊 As I had said prior, I sort of liked that the show went beyond the cases a bit and allowed to show the detectives as actual people and not just cardboard cutouts that were basically interchangeable for any given episode or case.

It's why I was glad when the Mothership did so when Lennie's daughter was murdered. The crimes are the main focus, but watching characters for so long, it's nice to know more about them, IMO. Although I will agree that stuff like "Aftershock" over on the Mothership went too far and out of character.

It's about balance, at least for me!

We are just different in that way I guess - one thing I loved about L&O the Mothership is how they avoided soapy stuff almost completely, and I’m glad we both agree about Aftershock being trash - some of the minor personal stories were okay but Aftershock sucked. I liked how the first 5 seasons of CI avoided soapy stuff but then when season 6 rolled around, the show became very soapy with Goren’s personal stuff, and I hated it. I’ve expressed my disdain for season 6 many times and I thought the stuff with Goren’s mom and then making his bio dad a murderer was ridiculous soapy dreck. It was like a totally different show. 

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

We are just different in that way I guess - one thing I loved about L&O the Mothership is how they avoided soapy stuff almost completely, and I’m glad we both agree about Aftershock being trash - some of the minor personal stories were okay but Aftershock sucked. I liked how the first 5 seasons of CI avoided soapy stuff but then when season 6 rolled around, the show became very soapy with Goren’s personal stuff, and I hated it. I’ve expressed my disdain for season 6 many times and I thought the stuff with Goren’s mom and then making his bio dad a murderer was ridiculous soapy dreck. It was like a totally different show. 

Yeah, I have to admit, I got really sick about his angst with his mother. It got really old.