Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Clawdette]

Declan is an Anglican derivation of the Irish Deaglán.  You'll hear it in many episodes of episodic TV that find characters traveling to Ireland or Scotland or when folks of those nationalities come to the US.  

[WendyCR72]

15 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

Declan is an Anglican derivation of the Irish Deaglán.  You'll hear it in many episodes of episodic TV that find characters traveling to Ireland or Scotland or when folks of those nationalities come to the US.  

So, I wasn't completely off base? Cool!

[Xeliou66]

I just watched The Good Doctor, I love this episode, it’s pretty straightforward but it’s really well done with a strong investigation, and as I’ve said before I love seeing Carver in court, he was awesome at the trial, and it’s really a shame CI didn’t go into court more often, Carver was a good character who was so underused. Kelmer was a compelling villain and I loved seeing how Goren got under his skin throughout and wound up getting the better of him. This episode had both Goren and Carver at their best. Really a fantastic story, not as many twists as most CI episodes and it was pretty obvious from the start what happened, but it was a compelling case. 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched The Good Doctor, I love this episode, it’s pretty straightforward but it’s really well done with a strong investigation, and as I’ve said before I love seeing Carver in court, he was awesome at the trial, and it’s really a shame CI didn’t go into court more often, Carver was a good character who was so underused. Kelmer was a compelling villain and I loved seeing how Goren got under his skin throughout and wound up getting the better of him. This episode had both Goren and Carver at their best. Really a fantastic story, not as many twists as most CI episodes and it was pretty obvious from the start what happened, but it was a compelling case. 

Yeah, that was a good early episode, and Peter Kelmer was so freaking arrogant. So, I was glad when G/E got him.

Still, as Alex said, they convicted because they didn't like Kelmer, not because of evidence.

However, just like Bobby responded to that, I'll take Kelmer getting what he deserves however it came about...

[Xeliou66]

38 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, that was a good early episode, and Peter Kelmer was so freaking arrogant. So, I was glad when G/E got him.

Still, as Alex said, they convicted because they didn't like Kelmer, not because of evidence.

However, just like Bobby responded to that, I'll take Kelmer getting what he deserves however it came about...

Kelmer was a very effective villain, smug and arrogant. It’s an excellent episode, and it had Goren at his finest and it was awesome seeing Carver in court. It’s really a shame that they didn’t go into court more, Carver was a really good prosecutor who just wasn’t used enough. More straightforward than most CI episodes but still a very compelling and strong episode, and it was ripped very closely from a real case. 

[WendyCR72]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:42 PM, Xeliou66 said:

More straightforward than most CI episodes but still a very compelling and strong episode, and it was ripped very closely from a real case. 

I figured as much as most early episodes were [maybe some later, too!]. I'd hope the perp in the real-life case is also rotting in prison, too!

There was another repeat actor in this episode, too: The actress playing Valerie's cousin, Barbara Garrick [best known from the now-defunct soap, One Life To Live], also showed up in "Cruise To Nowhere" as the widow of the victim [and whose own brother killed him!].

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I figured as much as most early episodes were [maybe some later, too!]. I'd hope the perp in the real-life case is also rotting in prison, too!

There was another repeat actor in this episode, too: The actress playing Valerie's cousin, Barbara Garrick [best known from the now-defunct soap, One Life To Live], also showed up in "Cruise To Nowhere" as the widow of the victim [and whose own brother killed him!].

Yeah the real life surgeon who inspired The Good Doctor episode is still locked up in Sing Sing. I think I mentioned this a while back here, he actually confessed to murdering his wife at his parole hearing a couple of years ago, he still didn’t get out though. It’s really interesting how closely The Good Doctor is based on this case - a Manhattan surgeon murdered and dismembered his wife in their apartment and dumped her remains out of his private plane into the ocean, and wound up being convicted of her murder without a body. It’s one of the CI episodes most closely based on a real case. It’s one of my favorite episodes from season 1 - there were a lot of really good ones, CI got off to an excellent start, and The Good Doctor is right at the top of my favorites from season 1.

[WendyCR72]

Funny how I never made the connection, but I was looking for something on the All Things Law & Order blog and came across another casting "repeat offender" on the show.

Maybe because the first episode he appeared in, "Wasichu" in S5, was so dull to me that it never registered, but the actor that played the husband of the Secret Service agent that was beaten to death in their home, David Alan Basche, later became murder victim David Kellen in "Last Street In Manhattan" in S10!

Someone on the blog joked that he finally got his comeuppance for being a sleazy hubby in S5. But I never connected it.

And, of course, David's "#2", Aston Skinner, was played by Eric Sheffer Stevens. And Stevens was Chili in "Depths" in S7. So it seems "Last Street In Manhattan" looked for some tried and trues for the roles.

(On a side note, I have often said that was my favorite S10 episode. Based on the blog, it seemed to be a big favorite over there, as well. And it was there that Alexandra Silber (Vanessa Colway) made a comment - from years before - how much fun she had filming the episode. So that was cool.)

And Julie White was a hoot as Stephanie Miller, and I liked Alex's obvious distaste for her vetting "soul mates" and whatnot. (Loved, when G/E went back to ask about David's ex, Nikki, how Stephanie replied, after discussing her finders' fee or whatever, "I've always been a romantic!" Bobby's expression after that cracked me up.)

[WendyCR72]

Per the video below, which mainly discusses Daredevil. we can add another item to VDO's resumé, author!

Seems he wrote a children's book, called Pigs Can't Look Up. How cool!

 

[Shadow Lass]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:13 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Per the video below, which mainly discusses Daredevil. we can add another item to VDO's resumé, author!

Seems he wrote a children's book, called Pigs Can't Look Up. How cool!

 

He has two books out, actually, Pigs Can't Look Up, which is based on his most famous Twitter post, a cute picture book, and a book of his "ramblings" on Twitter, which is called Mutha (and features B&W "art" type photos by his soon-to-be ex-wife). My favorite bit in the latter book is the Girl Scout cookie piece, but I was totally surprised by his story about the Monkey Jungle place--I think I went there when I was a tiny kid, maybe three years old.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Shadow Lass

[WendyCR72]

Never heard of Mutha, so he is a two-time author! Cool!

And..."soon-to-be ex-wife"?! This sort of shocks me as he always seemed so happy. Guess we really never know what goes on in private. Hope it is amicable, if just for the sake of their kids.

ETA: Seems one of their two kids is an adult. Still, my post stands, as I imagine this would be tough at any age.

[Xeliou66]

Mad Hops was just on - I like this episode a lot and how Goren ties the 2 murders together and gets to the bottom of the case. As I’ve said before - there are vague similarities between this episode and Crazy from season 1 in that both murderers were obsessed with and willing to kill for a woman who wasn’t interested in them and was just stringing them along. Coach Powell was just pathetic, so fixated on spending his future with Karen Watkins that he was willing to kill 2 people, he was scum. Karen Watkins wasn’t likable either, she didn’t care at all about Powell, she just was using him to help her son, I wonder how her or her son would go on knowing Powell killed 2 people for them. Really good episode, and I love the scene in the morgue where Rodgers swats Goren’s hand away when he wanted to take a sample from the victim’s nose, it was always amusing when Rodgers would get irritated when detectives got up close with the bodies. 

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Mad Hops was just on - I like this episode a lot and how Goren ties the 2 murders together and gets to the bottom of the case. As I’ve said before - there are vague similarities between this episode and Crazy from season 1 in that both murderers were obsessed with and willing to kill for a woman who wasn’t interested in them and was just stringing them along. Coach Powell was just pathetic, so fixated on spending his future with Karen Watkins that he was willing to kill 2 people, he was scum. Karen Watkins wasn’t likable either, she didn’t care at all about Powell, she just was using him to help her son, I wonder how her or her son would go on knowing Powell killed 2 people for them. Really good episode, and I love the scene in the morgue where Rodgers swats Goren’s hand away when he wanted to take a sample from the victim’s nose, it was always amusing when Rodgers would get irritated when detectives got up close with the bodies. 

The story Goren told about his dad eating over the sink and comparing that to the coach's life was sort of sad, though.

But it definitely outlined just how desperate the coach was to snag Karen Watkins. I do agree she, like Sarah Lindstrom in "Crazy", was an unlikable user.

I get she wanted to give her son some life advantages, but it's clear she had no interest in the coach but was willing to play along.

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The story Goren told about his dad eating over the sink and comparing that to the coach's life was sort of sad, though.

But it definitely outlined just how desperate the coach was to snag Karen Watkins. I do agree she, like Sarah Lindstrom in "Crazy", was an unlikable user.

I get she wanted to give her son some life advantages, but it's clear she had no interest in the coach but was willing to play along.

Her only saving grace, to me, was that she reminded me of Lena Horne, who I loved.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The story Goren told about his dad eating over the sink and comparing that to the coach's life was sort of sad, though.

But it definitely outlined just how desperate the coach was to snag Karen Watkins. I do agree she, like Sarah Lindstrom in "Crazy", was an unlikable user.

I get she wanted to give her son some life advantages, but it's clear she had no interest in the coach but was willing to play along.

Powell was definitely very lonely, but I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, he came off as just pathetic, and how could he not see that Karen was just stringing him along? It was obvious she had no interest in him. 
It’s interesting the similarities between this episode and Crazy from season 1 - with men obsessed with a woman who’s stringing them along willing to kill to try to have a chance with the woman. I’ve never really understood why Sara from Crazy was even spending time with creepy Charlie Webb when she clearly wasn’t interested in him, I didn’t see what she got from it, whereas in this one it was clear Karen was using the coach to get her son a scholarship. Coach Powell wasn’t as outwardly creepy as Dr Webb, but he was just as desperate. 

[WendyCR72]

The scene in "Cherry Red" where Bobby gets into Roger's very expensive car was just on. It'll never not be a fun scene, with Alex telling Bobby, "You have to come out now!"

Bobby was instantly a kid again there.

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Powell was definitely very lonely, but I didn’t feel any sympathy for him, he came off as just pathetic, and how could he not see that Karen was just stringing him along? It was obvious she had no interest in him. 
It’s interesting the similarities between this episode and Crazy from season 1 - with men obsessed with a woman who’s stringing them along willing to kill to try to have a chance with the woman. I’ve never really understood why Sara from Crazy was even spending time with creepy Charlie Webb when she clearly wasn’t interested in him, I didn’t see what she got from it, whereas in this one it was clear Karen was using the coach to get her son a scholarship. Coach Powell wasn’t as outwardly creepy as Dr Webb, but he was just as desperate. 

Oh, he was absolutely desperate! And if my posts sounded like I sympathized, I didn't. The coach, in his own way, was just as evil and pathetic as Dr. Webb in "Crazy".

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The scene in "Cherry Red" where Bobby gets into Roger's very expensive car was just on. It'll never not be a fun scene, with Alex telling Bobby, "You have to come out now!"

Bobby was instantly a kid again there.

Oh, he was absolutely desperate! And if my posts sounded like I sympathized, I didn't. The coach, in his own way, was just as evil and pathetic as Dr. Webb in "Crazy".

I’m not sure how both Webb and Coach Powell didn’t realize that they were being strung along and used by the woman they were obsessed with. I guess they were so obsessed that they weren’t seeing things clearly. 

[WendyCR72]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m not sure how both Webb and Coach Powell didn’t realize that they were being strung along and used by the woman they were obsessed with. I guess they were so obsessed that they weren’t seeing things clearly. 

Coach Powell, not sure. But Charles Webb said in the room after Bobby confronted him about the murder, "Don't you see? She was my last chance."

I guess Webb didn't care if Sarah loved him as he probably felt she could "learn" to and, even if she didn't, at least he could delude himself into thinking he had a "hot" girlfriend and wouldn't be all alone.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Coach Powell, not sure. But Charles Web said in the room after Bobby confronted him about the murder, "Don't you see? She was my last chance."

I guess Webb didn't care if Sarah loved him as he probably felt she could "learn" to and, even if she didn't, at least he could delude himself into thinking he had a "hot" girlfriend and wouldn't be all alone.

Yeah I think both Powell and Webb were very desperate, they were aging and didn’t want to be alone and desperately wanted a relationship with a woman who didn’t care about them and were just using them. It’s an interesting parallel between the two episodes. Both are strong episodes. Mad Hops might be my favorite of the Bishop episodes.

[Shadow Lass]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:34 PM, Clawdette said:

Declan is an Anglican derivation of the Irish Deaglán.

Oh, okay! When I looked it up, it said it was French.

[Shadow Lass]

On 7/15/2023 at 11:41 PM, WendyCR72 said:

One of the episodes I watched was Alex Cabot's first episode, the S2 premiere, "Wrong Is Right". And not having seen that one in...God, forever...I was a bit thrown when the young perp had the name of Michael Goren.

I just thought it was something how the name Goren popped up, as it doesn't seem as common as Smith, Jones, or Johnson, etc.

Early SVU was light years better, IMO. But...mileage.

As an aside, when I was watching CI on Peacock, the episode in the last five minutes or so cut out, and then began the next episode! Anyone else having such an issue with Peacock?

I've been watching early SVU, and man, it's pretty much an entirely different series from what airs now. The current episodes are just "Olivia Benson comforts the victim, gives a speech, and saves the day" next to the old ones. I love Alex Cabot! Carisi never gets anything so good to do.

When I was a kid "Goren" was a name I read every single day. Charles Goren wrote over a dozen books about his expertise, contract bridge, and he had a daily bridge column in the newspaper.

Peacock seems to have a fixed time period for each episode to run, and if the episode runs over that time, the next one just starts. I had trouble with several CI episodes.

[Shadow Lass]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:28 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Coach Powell, not sure. But Charles Webb said in the room after Bobby confronted him about the murder, "Don't you see? She was my last chance."

I guess Webb didn't care if Sarah loved him as he probably felt she could "learn" to and, even if she didn't, at least he could delude himself into thinking he had a "hot" girlfriend and wouldn't be all alone.

Speaking of Charles Webb, in my watch of SVU I found Michael Gross playing another older man married to younger woman who turns out to be a scuzzball, the very same year he did "Crazy."

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

Speaking of Charles Webb, in my watch of SVU I found Michael Gross playing another older man married to younger woman who turns out to be a scuzzball, the very same year he did "Crazy."

I'm guessing Michael Gross didn't mind being typecast as sleazy or sleaze adjacent! (His Jack Carter on ER wasn't, but he was sort of a "cold" man.)

I guess he was branching out after playing the perennially-nice Steven Keaton on Family Ties for so many years!

3 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

Peacock seems to have a fixed time period for each episode to run, and if the episode runs over that time, the next one just starts. I had trouble with several CI episodes.

Hope this gets resolved sooner than later. It's annoying to jump to the next episode when the previous one isn't even done!

[WendyCR72]

TV Line has posted a preview of The Irrational, a new NBC series starring Mothership alumnus, Jesse L. Martin [Det. Ed Greene], and his character write up for Alec Baker, Professor of Human Behavior, sounds very Bobby Goren-esque!

Makes me curious how he will handle such a role. It premieres on September 25th at 10:00 p.m.

At least there will be some new stuff to watch this fall!

[peacheslatour]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

TV Line has posted a preview of The Irrational, a new NBC series starring Mothership alumnus, Jesse L. Martin [Det. Ed Greene], and his character write up for Alec Baker, Professor of Human Behavior, sounds very Bobby Goren-esque!

Makes me curious how he will handle such a role. It premieres on September 25th at 10:00 p.m.

At least there will be some new stuff to watch this fall!

Yay! Can't wait.

[Xeliou66]

Beast is on on Sundance now, this is one of my favorite season 4 episodes, an intricate, bizarre plot but not overly hard to follow and it had memorable characters in Gregory, Colleen and Colleen’s witch of a mom. Colleen should’ve just moved a long way away from her mom and never spoken to the old witch again, but I guess Colleen just couldn’t get past her mom shoving her sister together with Gregory and remained obsessed with Gregory. It was a screwed up episode with how Colleen still would do anything to be with Gregory even though Gregory murdered her sister. It’s a stellar episode, one of my favorites from season 4, and as I’ve said before this is a more “normal” plot than a lot of season 4 episodes, season 4 had a lot of dark, weird and creepy stuff in it. No Exit is next, that’s one of the bleakest and most horrifying episodes in CI history. 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Beast is on on Sundance now, this is one of my favorite season 4 episodes, an intricate, bizarre plot but not overly hard to follow and it had memorable characters in Gregory, Colleen and Colleen’s witch of a mom. Colleen should’ve just moved a long way away from her mom and never spoken to the old witch again, but I guess Colleen just couldn’t get past her mom shoving her sister together with Gregory and remained obsessed with Gregory. It was a screwed up episode with how Colleen still would do anything to be with Gregory even though Gregory murdered her sister. It’s a stellar episode, one of my favorites from season 4, and as I’ve said before this is a more “normal” plot than a lot of season 4 episodes, season 4 had a lot of dark, weird and creepy stuff in it. No Exit is next, that’s one of the bleakest and most horrifying episodes in CI history. 

And really, in the end, even before realizing he was also a murderer [as he killed Morgan], Gregory just wasn't "all that".

I wonder if part of Colleen's fixation on him was because her sister was involved with him [even as she also cheated on him!] and wanting to "one up" dead Morgan somehow.

Kind of like the equally dysfunctional sisters a season later in "Dollhouse" and the fixation on little Charlie.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And really, in the end, even before realizing he was also a murderer [as he killed Morgan], Gregory just wasn't "all that".

I wonder if part of Colleen's fixation on him was because her sister was involved with him [even as she also cheated on him!] and wanting to "one up" dead Morgan somehow.

Kind of like the equally dysfunctional sisters a season later in "Dollhouse" and the fixation on little Charlie.

Yeah I definitely think Colleen wanted to be with Gregory specifically because he was involved with Morgan and she wanted to show that she could be with the person Morgan was with, especially since her nasty mother compared her unfavorably to Morgan constantly. Colleen was so messed up mainly due to her mom’s awfulness that she killed to try to be with Gregory, even though Gregory murdered her sister. And yeah I didn’t see what was so appealing about Gregory, although he certainly had Lisa’s parents fooled as well with them thinking he was a great guy. It was quite a twisted plot but very well done. 

[WendyCR72]

I still think it's sort of hilarious that both leads in the sitcom, Perfect Strangers, with Larry and Cousin Balki, ended up having both actors play murderers on CI. (Mark Linn-Baker [Wally from "Probability", later seen again in "Endgame"] and Bronson Pinchot [Gregory in "Beast"!].)

[WendyCR72]

Seems like former daytime actors are dropping left and right, and too soon. (One recent actor, the inspiration for Harley Quinn in the DC Comics, Arleen Sorkin, just died at 67 from MS as an example and got her start on Days of Our Lives.)

Well, another announcement has emerged: Bronwen Booth, who got her start on One Life To Live and later appeared in the Season 3 episode as Marguerite Townsend, the wealthy horse owner/rider having an affair with Dale the horse trainer, has died of ampullary cancer at 59.

Never heard of this cancer. I looked it up, and it is the opening that connects the bile and pancreatic ducts to the duodenum. It's apparently very rare.

Too young. May she rest in peace.

[WendyCR72]

For night owls, ironically, "Ill Bred", the episode featuring Bronwen Booth mentioned above, is now just starting on WE.

[WendyCR72]

If anyone here is at home and watches the little Friday mini block that Sundance has, apparently tomorrow, it begins at noon instead of 1:00 p.m. this time, so three episodes.

Just a schedule heads up if anyone wanted to know...

[Shadow Lass]

On 8/29/2023 at 12:47 AM, WendyCR72 said:

TV Line has posted a preview of The Irrational, a new NBC series starring Mothership alumnus, Jesse L. Martin [Det. Ed Greene], and his character write up for Alec Baker, Professor of Human Behavior, sounds very Bobby Goren-esque!

I came here to post about that, too! I'm very intrigued by the description!

After watching the preview, I can see Bobby sitting down with him and having a long chat!

Edited September 5, 2023 by Shadow Lass

[WendyCR72]

And WE is at it again with scheduling.

The mini late-night Saturday into Sunday, Tuesday into Wednesday, and Wednesday into Thursday blocks stay the same, but based on what I am seeing, the show will now air on WE on Mondays until around 3:00 p.m., split with 9-1-1, which then takes over.

And now, same for Thursdays. Morning until early afternoon.

Making this a bit strange is, WE and Sundance are sister channels, and now, both will be airing CI at the same time on Mondays. But hey, if an episode you don't care for is on, at least you can switch over?

The Friday mini block on Sundance, speaking of said channel, also remains intact from noon until 3:00 p.m.

[WendyCR72]

I see "Slither" (along with "Dollhouse" before and "Watch" after!) is airing in the early morning tonight.

As I said, this is actually a pretty good episode since Bernard is smart like Goren and still evil with his wealthy Manson family deal.

But the Nicole angle just drags it down, although the ending was a decent way of having her on without having her on...

[WendyCR72]

So, as I wait for work, I have "Dollhouse" on with the lawyer sister wanting the con artist sister dead and the fight over the latter's kid.

A scene brings to mind our chat about the name Declan and how it seems so rare, yet the franchise loved it. Well, I forgot that the married guy Claire the lawyer was having a relationship was named...Declan. So, a season before we meet Declan Gage, we had this other guy.

Wonder if Dick Wolf's BFF was a Declan or something?

[WendyCR72]

So, work still has me up, and although "Watch" was listed for 3:00 a.m., a Mothership episode is on instead. "Progeny", with Edward Herrmann as Drew Seeley.

A great episode, surprise airing or not!

 

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I see "Slither" (along with "Dollhouse" before and "Watch" after!) is airing in the early morning tonight.

As I said, this is actually a pretty good episode since Bernard is smart like Goren and still evil with his wealthy Manson family deal.

But the Nicole angle just drags it down, although the ending was a decent way of having her on without having her on...

Slither was a good episode up until the Nicole crap derailed it. It had a very memorable opening and an intriguing case, and then fucking Nicole had to get involved in the plot. I kind of lost interest once Nicole was brought up, and I thought the ending was epically stupid - why wasn’t everyone searching for Nicole after the murder, instead of just standing around over the corpse? And how convenient was it that once again Nicole gets away with a murder, this time in the middle of a busy courthouse. Stupid. Nicole should’ve been killed off at the end of Great Barrier, then he storyline would’ve been okay, but as it is it dragged on for way too long and was just absurd.

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So, work still has me up, and although "Watch" was listed for 3:00 a.m., a Mothership episode is on instead. "Progeny", with Edward Herrmann as Drew Seeley.

A great episode, surprise airing or not!

 

Very weird that they apparently skipped over Watch, I like that episode with Duane and Art the killer cousins, good Logan/Barek episode. It’s weird that the showed a random Mothership episode instead, but yeah Progeny is a very good one IMO.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Stupid. Nicole should’ve been killed off at the end of Great Barrier, then he storyline would’ve been okay, but as it is it dragged on for way too long and was just absurd.

Yeah. Nicole was becoming a cartoon character. No matter what crime or stunt, she'd bounce right back up like a bad weed. I think it's why I'm glad I have the S4 DVD, so if I ever want to envision an AU world where Nicole does die in "Great Barrier", all I have to do is watch the alternate ending!

[WendyCR72]

Said it before, will say it again: No matter how many times I try to watch "Proud Flesh", none of this episode makes any real sense to me. The only part I do have straight is Anna, wife to Jonas Slaughter [Malcolm McDowell] was previously married to the professor dude.

But anything else, why the son was killed, WHO really killed him, why Jonas turned on Anna and their kid [the latter of which I was appalled by!]...all just a complete mess.

Although the scene with G/E and the dominatrix/911 operator was amusing. And Alex shooting at the very end.

Otherwise...

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But anything else, why the son was killed, WHO really killed him, why Jonas turned on Anna and their kid [the latter of which I was appalled by!]...all just a complete mess.

Yeah, that part absolutely made no sense at all to me.

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Said it before, will say it again: No matter how many times I try to watch "Proud Flesh", none of this episode makes any real sense to me. The only part I do have straight is Anna, wife to Jonas Slaughter [Malcolm McDowell] was previously married to the professor dude.

But anything else, why the son was killed, WHO really killed him, why Jonas turned on Anna and their kid [the latter of which I was appalled by!]...all just a complete mess.

Although the scene with G/E and the dominatrix/911 operator was amusing. And Alex shooting at the very end.

Otherwise...

I watched Proud Flesh before I fell asleep last night, and I feel the exact same way. Every time I watch the episode I’m left scratching my head trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. I still do not know for sure who killed Tripp, my best guess is that the businessman who was staying in the room next door killed him on the orders of Jonas, but why is a complete mystery to me, and why did they stage the scene and make it look like he was killed by someone he was going to have sex with, and why did they stage the diversion with the Asian woman who never actually was there? And Jonas seemed to care about his wife and daughter, but then he did a 180 and went on the hateful rant against them, it just didn’t make sense. And why exactly did Chance try to shoot the wife at the end? Was he just trying to commit suicide by cop so he could clear his dad with a dying confession? If so, surely there were easier ways to do it, and it was very convenient he had time to make a dying declaration before he bled out. Nothing about the episode made any sense whatsoever to me, the plot was a complete disaster, in fact it’s one of the worst episodes of the first 5 seasons of CI. 

[WendyCR72]

The Friday Sundance mini block, which started some time ago with two episodes, then expanded to three, is adding yet another episode. The listings have the show airing from noon to 4:00 p.m. tomorrow.

Just a heads up if anyone is around to watch it.

[WendyCR72]

Courtney B. Vance apparently has a movie coming out that will stream on Paramount + with Showtime and will air on regular Showtime, too.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Courtney B. Vance apparently has a movie coming out that will stream on Paramount + with Showtime and will air on regular Showtime, too.

He’s a great actor. It’s a travesty how underused Carver was in so many episodes, he was great, but they rarely have Carver a chance to shine it seemed like.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

He’s a great actor. It’s a travesty how underused Carver was in so many episodes, he was great, but they rarely have Carver a chance to shine it seemed like.

He was and is a great actor, but even in those early seasons, maybe with the exception of "The Good Doctor" and "No Exit", the show really struggled in shoehorning in court-related scenes for Carver.

As much as it sucked to lose CBV/Carver, he was probably better off. Although I still would have loved a cameo in S10 along with Deakins, etc., and find out just what ol' Ron Carver was up to.

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

He was and is a great actor, but even in those early seasons, maybe with the exception of "The Good Doctor" and "No Exit", the show really struggled in shoehorning in court-related scenes for Carver.

As much as it sucked to lose CBV/Carver, he was probably better off. Although I still would have loved a cameo in S10 along with Deakins, etc., and find out just what ol' Ron Carver was up to.

Carver had some great moments but yeah all too often he was underused, it’s a shame we had so few courtroom scenes with Carver. And I hate how we didn’t get an explanation for where Carver was, I like to think he became a judge and that’s why he left the DA’s office, he would’ve made an excellent judge. Although the franchise hasn’t always done exits well - I didn’t like Deakins’ exit story, he deserved a much better sendoff, on the Mothership I didn’t care for Green’s sendoff, and don’t even get me started on how bad a few of the SVU exits have been. So while it would’ve been nice to have some reference to where Carver went, at least they never crapped on his character.

[WendyCR72]

9 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Carver had some great moments but yeah all too often he was underused, it’s a shame we had so few courtroom scenes with Carver. And I hate how we didn’t get an explanation for where Carver was, I like to think he became a judge and that’s why he left the DA’s office, he would’ve made an excellent judge. Although the franchise hasn’t always done exits well - I didn’t like Deakins’ exit story, he deserved a much better sendoff, on the Mothership I didn’t care for Green’s sendoff, and don’t even get me started on how bad a few of the SVU exits have been. So while it would’ve been nice to have some reference to where Carver went, at least they never crapped on his character.

Yeah. I am glad that Carver made it out without pulling plugs or going bad or whatever. That's a huge plus!

A judgeship would be perfect for Carver.

Then again, Jamie Ross became a judge on Trial By Jury, and she still managed to be retconned out of that and crapped on by the Mothership, which still angers me.

So maybe it's best some of these characters got "non" endings. At least they're safe that way!

[Xeliou66]

53 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah. I am glad that Carver made it out without pulling plugs or going bad or whatever. That's a huge plus!

A judgeship would be perfect for Carver.

Then again, Jamie Ross became a judge on Trial By Jury, and she still managed to be retconned out of that and crapped on by the Mothership, which still angers me.

So maybe it's best some of these characters got "non" endings. At least they're safe that way!

It really pisses me off how the Mothership revival crapped all over Jamie, for no reason whatsoever, I can’t even say that they did it for shock value because many viewers wouldn’t even know who Jamie was since she hadn’t been on in years - I think it was just dismal writing. Why didn’t they just make her the judge presiding over the trial? 

I really have no idea why the franchise (in particular SVU) likes crapping on good characters. The characters who got the best endings were Lennie Briscoe and Adam Schiff on the Mothership, and Cragen and Munch on SVU, those great characters went out on a good note. Van Buren got a nice ending as well, since the original series finale was going to be her final episode. But the endings have been a real mixed bag on the franchise, so sometimes not really getting an ending can be for the best. Like I say, SVU has trashed numerous characters, and on CI I didn’t care for Deakins exit at all, it just made him look weak IMO.

[WendyCR72]

So the early morning marathon on WE sees the end of S5 with the dysfunctional Reid clan from "On Fire", a.k.a. stepmom and stepson and their kid.

Then "Blind Spot", which I do like if just because Bobby shows his scared human side, worrying about Alex... And I still ADORE that Alex saves HERSELF.

And then, another fucked-up family with Keith, his pervy doc dad, the teacher they both lust after, and Keith's icy mommy in the midst of Wheeler's debut in "Tru Love", with the late Anton Yelchin as Keith.