Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Maherjunkie]

That goes later, after the neck, thighs, and buttocks.

[WendyCR72]

That goes later, after the neck, thighs, and buttocks.

Don't forget the chest area!

On topic, today's (well, yesterday now) marathon was the Logan/Falacci combo. Funny how two out of three of Logan's CI partners were redheads!

Even Bishop, Goren's temporary partner, had red hair. If not for Wheeler, I'd guess the red hair was casting code for "don't get attached!" :-)

[Maherjunkie]

He seemed to attract his share of strawberry blonds too.

[WendyCR72]

He seemed to attract his share of strawberry blonds too.

 

Well, the nurse at the prison, Gina the bitchy nurse, she was outright blonde. Olivet was a brunette. So what strawberry blondes am I forgetting?

[Maherjunkie]

I thought of Gina that way, and the bimbo at the bar.  Laura Linney also flirted and flopped, but I think of her as blonde blonde.

[WendyCR72]

I don't remember the bar bimbo, Maherjunkie, but as your devotion to all things Logan is like mine with Goren, I'll cede to your knowledge there. :-) (Kind of liked Logan with Olivet, too, myself.)

ETA: Are you referring to Holly from "Renewal" as the bar bimbo, the neighbor chick that killed herself? If so, I kind of liked her with Logan even if the connection seemed to happen way too fast. And wasn't she a brunette?

Or am I forgetting some other woman?

[WendyCR72]

Welcome to the new digs. This is still taking some getting used to - and I even got to see it ahead of time! So, bear with me, and I'll bear with you. If you're lost, there are some links on top of the board explaining what's new.

[Maherjunkie]

To the Bone

[WendyCR72]

@Maherjunkie, I take it you're testing things out?  :-)

On another note, while it is airing 'til 4:00 p.m. this Saturday, I see WE is doing some crappy reality show marathon next Saturday, May 7th. Just as well. The weather is FINALLY getting a bit nicer here! At least it is still airing during the week (and late at night on both WE/USA for the insomniacs).

[Maherjunkie]

Did I post wrong?  I hate this new layout.  All my saved notifications are missing.  

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Did I post wrong?  I hate this new layout.  All my saved notifications are missing.  

Still trying to work the bugs out, @Maherjunkie. It's frustrating, I know. Just take it day by day. By the way, if you have any questions, I'm happy to help you if I can!

Just think warm thoughts of Mike Logan and cheer up!  :-)

[WendyCR72]

"Probability" with Mark-Linn Baker just ended. Too bad we didn't see Bronson Pinchot's dentist murderer in prison years later like we did ol' Wally. Call it Perfect Strangers: The Prison Years!

[WendyCR72]

I see WE is playing ping pong with the schedule yet again. CI is now on Thursdays again (for the 3rd weekly airing) starting at 10, ending early at 3:00 p.m. this Thursday but ending at 6:00 p.m. thereafter. No more Saturdays.

Lord knows how long this will last!

[WendyCR72]

I don't know if anyone besides me lurks here anymore, but I came across a video for an old USA CI commercial advertising CI's final episode on YT. And most of the footage, I recognized.

But around 00:19, there's a scene with Goren dressed much like he was when leaving Gyson's office in TTBitBKC, and Alex dressed a bit differently and giving him a little smile. However, it wasn't the usual shrink building both he and Eames went to, but some city building.

I recall there was chatter that there was a "busier" ending for the show with Rene Balcer making a cameo that was scrapped. I wonder if that scene was it?

If you want to see it for yourself, go here to watch the video and go to 00:20. Cool to see some unseen footage and curious to think how much has landed on the cutting room floor over the years! (As far as I can tell.)

[WendyCR72]

Here's a topic out of sheer boredom: How would you rank the 10 seasons of the show, from best to worst, and why? (I add the why as PTV frowns at just lists!)

Myself, it varies, but as of now:

1. Season 1: Because this sets everything up and - on a shallow note - VDO looked great here. LOL! There were also some great episodes with "Homo Homini Lupis", "Phantom", and "Badge", but a lot more...

2. Season 2: Things were in place and gelling quite well. The actors were a bit more relaxed and their characters more defined. And they even let glimpses of humor through this season (i.e. the whole Bob the Shipping Magnate/Alex, Queen of Sheba scene!).

3. Season 10: Only 8 episodes. But it left out the filler and gave some good cases (my favorite episode that season was "The Last Street in Manhattan"). Could have done without Gyson, but I get what the show was trying to do, leaving Bobby in a better emotional place, so I guess it served its purpose. And it was a pleasure to see Bobby and Alex back, even if I wish their returns were better explained. And we did get a glimpse of Alex's family - finally! Raymond Barry was great as crusty Johnny Eames. Only wish there was time for more of him.

4. Season 4: This seemed to be a darker season with many cases, but the acting was great. And hey, first Mike Logan sighting!

5. Season 5: This was a transitional season in that it was the first with alternating teams, but it seemed to work pretty well. Even if poor Annabella Sciorra seemed flat as Carolyn Barek. I wonder if that would have lasted had she stuck around. On a down note, it was the end of Captain Deakins and Ron Carver, both of whom I missed when they left.

6. Season 3: An okay season, but (and this is just me) I think Erbe's/Eames' absence (minus cameo sightings) for her maternity leave didn't leave Bobby with someone to play off of. Samantha Buck's Bishop did truly improve by her end, I'll admit it, but I think their start was rough. (To be fair, it was also written that way on screen, so maybe that was the intention.) Still, stories like "Mad Hops", giving another glimpse into Bobby's past, were still compelling.

7. Season 6: This seems to be the sharp cutoff point from the Rene Balcer era (first 5 seasons) and what CI would become under Warren Leight, more focus on the personal, which is polarizing even today. Some liked seeing more personal stuff; others thought it was too much. This also began with Eames kidnapped and marked Bobby's personal descent into family tragedies/secrets. Even so, I think VDO/KE acted their butts off with these, and even for what they were, "Blind Spot" and "Endgame" were compelling. It also marked Megan Wheeler's and Danny Ross' debuts. Wheeler seemed well liked. Ross? Much more polarizing. I got used to him, but I always missed Deakins.

8. Season 7: Okay, so this was a very dark season, figuratively and seemingly literally, as it seems this was the first season it went to USA and it seemed USA cut down on the lighting. I did like seeing Kathryn Erbe featured again - as she was in "Blind Spot" - this time in "Amends", focusing on the death of her slain husband's partner, and Alex having to re-examine Joe's own murder. Erbe, IMO, was great, especially in the scene where she sniffed Joe's shirt. (As an aside, I liked VDO's/Bobby's little "I'm the whackjob!" scene when he was ordering the other cop to find the lost evidence pertaining to Joe. Always nice to see Bobby supporting Alex as she did for him so often.) Besides "Amends", I did love the almost anomalous lightness of "Vanishing Act" and - for all of its darkness and WTF stuff - did find "Frame" interesting. Even if I thought Ross acted like a complete ass here. And thought Rodgers would never break confidentiality as she did. It was also the end (again) of Mike Logan. Whom I missed, especially since...

9: Season 8: ...came the arrival of Zack Nichols. This character just irked me. I respect that Jeff Goldblum is a good actor, but he seemed like a square peg in a round hole for CI. And I didn't really buy his buddy past with Ross. Add in the explanation that his character was off any force for 7 years, and I wonder how the hell he'd end up at Major Case and seemingly as the senior partner to Wheeler. Speaking of Wheeler, I liked her, but she seemed to be shortchanged throughout her run. I recall a summary for a S6 episode that aired that said she also looked into her father's past, which did not happen. S7 had her gone (for Julianne Nicholson's maternity leave, I know...), come back engaged to someone who would be a criminal, get pregnant by said criminal ex, and then this season, she would just fade out, exit stage left. I wish the BTS stuff about that exit was explained since she seemed to leave rather abruptly. (Then again, poor Carver and Barek never merited explanations either; the show sucked there, I admit it.)

And finally...

10. Season 9: Come on. Do I really need to explain this one?

[Maherjunkie]

I pretty much agree but I thought season 5  and 8 suck.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

I pretty much agree but I thought season 5  and 8 suck.

The only S8 episode I really liked was "Lady's Man", but I agree it was weak. Season 5 seemed to be a harbinger of all the changes to come. I did like "In The Wee Small Hours" with both pairings in one story and liked the callback to Connie in S3 (who befriended Ethan Garrett in jail and was the one to smack Goren in S3).

[Maherjunkie]

The Logan eps grew on me but the Goren ones sucked it was the beginning of the end.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Maherjunkie said:

The Logan eps grew on me but the Goren ones sucked it was the beginning of the end.

I take it you mean S5 (since Logan was gone in S8). Yeah. I admit the S5 cases were less than stellar. I actually liked some of S6/S7 as dark as they were, but S8 and S9...it went south. Seemed to recover a bit for S10, though.

[Maherjunkie]

A bit yes.  He was never as handsome again.  I should say the Logan ones regrew on me as Mikey and I go back a long time.  like a highly erotic fungus.

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

A bit yes.  He was never as handsome again.  I should say the Logan ones regrew on me as Mikey and I go back a long time.  like a highly erotic fungus.

VDO/Bobby was sort of a mess in S8. I don't think he looked bad in S7; I think it was his change of the way he dressed. (Yes, he did gain weight, but I think he was tall enough to carry it okay.) He looked damned good in "Depths", IMO, in S7 (as did Alex...her bangs were actually not in her face and cut!).

And VDO looked great. IMO, in S6. S8, though, yeah. Don't know what was up. And S8 was and still is shown out of order, because some episodes had the longer curlier hair with the beard and the next would be with hair cut and clean shaven! Weird.

[Maherjunkie]

I agree.  Here is my place: http://www.vincentdonofriofans.net/phpBB2/index.php.  U have to join to see the discussion board.

[WendyCR72]

28 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

I agree.  Here is my place: http://www.vincentdonofriofans.net/phpBB2/index.php.  U have to join to see the discussion board.

Cool! Thanks, @Maherjunkie!  :-)

[WendyCR72]

No idea what season it is returning with, as there were no details, but the TV listings have the show back on ION (besides WE and USA) as of July 8th, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. for however long.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:14 AM, WendyCR72 said:

No idea what season it is returning with, as there were no details, but the TV listings have the show back on ION (besides WE and USA) as of July 8th, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. for however long.

Unless you're on a different feed than mine, Wendy, ION's schedule is lying to you. Here in NC, Numbers is listed as airing from nine to four, and then Criminal Minds runs until eleven. It might depend on time zones or whatever, though.

[WendyCR72]

Huh. I just checked the Zap2It listings, and it still has CI returning on July 8th at 9:00 a.m. TV Guide, on the other hand, doesn't have that.

Guess the next few weeks will tell what's up.  :-) In any case, thanks for the info, @Cobalt Stargazer. ION is wonky, so it could go either way. Although its schedule seems stable of late, and ION may not like that it hasn't been confusing people and may be getting itchy again as it did every few months. Eh, who knows?  :-)

[WendyCR72]

Zap2it - after days of showing CI back on ION - did readjust and it now matches TV Guide. So Numbers-palooza still reigns there.  :-P

[WendyCR72]

It occurred to me that the housewife, Melanie Cullen (she of "We were married for 25 yeeears!") who offed her hubby and his younger lover on the Mothership in "Wages of Love" in S2 (where Jerry Orbach appeared as her defense attorney a season before assuming the role of Lennie Briscoe!) had her perfect match in corrupt cop/politician Frank Adair in CI's "My Good Name" in S4. Came across that, and I swear he spoke of his wife, whom he was cheating on with his campaign manager (played by Jenna Stern, who was also in a bunch of episodes in the franchise but CI-wise, was in "Cadaver", "Endgame", and also the mom who claimed her daughter was being molested by her ex in "Crazy" in S1), as "the mother of my children" 6 billion times. Too bad prison wasn't co-ed. He and Melanie Cullen would have hit it off, if they could manage to have a conversation without repeating the same lines over and over again!

[WendyCR72]

"Proud Flesh" with Malcolm MacDowell just aired. I know his other son confessed to killing his brother after Alex shot him for trying to kill his father's wife...but it was basically implied her covered for someone else.

Who the hell killed the victim, Trip? The dad? (This one always kind of bored me, so maybe I missed details.)

[Maherjunkie]

I thought it was the brother, but it has been so long I could be wrong.  Wretched ep for me.

[Maherjunkie]

The former is true.  Interesting theory.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, whimsey98 said:

I forget, was the son's widow pregnant? 

The son that Alex shot on the steps, yeah, his wife was pregnant and left with dear father-in-law at the end (where he tells her not to look back).

[WendyCR72]

If I recall, Trip's wife was the one in the squad room whom G/E interviewed. She said they were divorcing, so that would explain it! (At least, I think that was Trip's wife. Did MacDowell's character just have the two sons? If so, it had to have been his!)

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, whimsey98 said:

The "ick" thought that went through my mind is that it was the father's child and not the son's.  This show really takes me down the sewer hole sometimes.

Eeew, indeed. His little girl is better off without him. Seeing as his sons didn't fare too great...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Speaking of the sewer hole, On Fire (otherwise known as Deakins' Last Episode) was on USA the other day, where Theresa Russell played a woman who seduced her fourteen year old stepson(?) and got pregnant, and then the kid started a bunch of church fires. Watching the boy break apart when he realized that his 'half-brother' was actually his father, and that the other guy had no idea because Russell's character induced labor to make it seem like the baby was her husband's kid, was just about the saddest thing ever, especially since Goren was hovering just beyond the kid's shoulder trying to offer a sliver of comfort. Just awful.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Speaking of the sewer hole, On Fire (otherwise known as Deakins' Last Episode) was on USA the other day, where Theresa Russell played a woman who seduced her fourteen year old stepson(?) and got pregnant, and then the kid started a bunch of church fires. Watching the boy break apart when he realized that his 'half-brother' was actually his father, and that the other guy had no idea because Russell's character induced labor to make it seem like the baby was her husband's kid, was just about the saddest thing ever, especially since Goren was hovering just beyond the kid's shoulder trying to offer a sliver of comfort. Just awful.

Something occurred to me there, too. What ethical doctor of any sort would induce labor of a baby that would be considered premature? There was no mention of any true pregnancy difficulty, so how the hell did the stepmother get her little plan to work to begin with?!

That whole family was so messed up.

[WendyCR72]

Huh, CI is still on. Usually ends on WE by now...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Huh, CI is still on. Usually ends on WE by now...

WE's schedule's is bollocksed up. They seem to have stopped airing the Mothership on Wednesday in favor of House and Million Dollar Matchmaker, so I''m not surprised that its spread to CI as well. :-/

[Maherjunkie]

Mothership on Sundance as we speak.  I think the dead son was divorcing in Proud Flesh.

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

WE's schedule's is bollocksed up. They seem to have stopped airing the Mothership on Wednesday in favor of House and Million Dollar Matchmaker, so I''m not surprised that its spread to CI as well. :-/

Yeah, WE is nuts. I know for the insomniacs (me and others), the Mothership would segue to CI in the middle of the night on WE on Tuesday night/Wednesday mornings and Wednesday nights/Thursday mornings. But the latest has the Thursday morning airings starting at 1 a.m. ET as being no more; but it is moving to Sunday mornings at 1. House gets the old Thursday slot. 

As for the Mothership, @Maherjunkie kindly informed me (as I also didn't know!) that it now airs on Saturdays on WE along with its Tuesday slot. Looks like it is off Wednesdays there entirely.

I wish WE would pick a schedule and just stick to the damned thing for a few months or so, at the very least.

I'll say something positive: At least WE shows S1 and 2 of the Mothership fairly often as those seasons get little to no play elsewhere that I've seen.

[Maherjunkie]

Sundance baby, Sundance on now!

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Sundance baby, Sundance on now!

Watched on my Roku as my WiFi connection and Roku would allow via SlingTV! (As I don't get Sundance otherwise.)

[WendyCR72]

Hmm. S2 Bobby next or S8 Bobby?  USA and WE are both showing episodes!

[WendyCR72]

Does the morgue have barber services? Just noticed that in the final scene of "Folie A Deux", Bobby went from curlier hair/full beard he had for three quarters of the episode to shorter hair/scruff (when he saw the baby's remains).

[Lizzing]

On 8/10/2016 at 0:57 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Does the morgue have barber services?

Actually, it's a salon training program attached to the ME's office, thereby explaining Rodgers' horrible blonde phase. ;)

[Maherjunkie]

AKA sloppy script supervising.

 

2.  Don't like when he is fat and depressed.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 8/9/2016 at 11:57 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Does the morgue have barber services? Just noticed that in the final scene of "Folie A Deux", Bobby went from curlier hair/full beard he had for three quarters of the episode to shorter hair/scruff (when he saw the baby's remains).

I couldn't quite grasp what had happened to the baby. Piper Perabo's character didn't seem to have too tight a grip on reality, do was the kid dead for the entire episode and she just couldn't admit it so she and her husband pretended the infant had been kidnapped?

And maybe I'm just weird, but I don't think Goren looked bad with the beard and the extra weight. D'Onofrio is six-three, and like most tall guys he can carry extra pounds, even a lot of extra pounds. I know what it symbolizes character-wise, Bobby's angst and depression, but it works for VOD as an actor.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Lizzing said:

Actually, it's a salon training program attached to the ME's office, thereby explaining Rodgers' horrible blonde phase. ;)

Finally an answer I can get behind! (And what gets me is Leslie Hendrix kept that awful color for the rest of the series! Although in some episodes, you could see the red trying to peek through in S10. She looked much better with red hair.)

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I couldn't quite grasp what had happened to the baby. Piper Perabo's character didn't seem to have too tight a grip on reality, do was the kid dead for the entire episode and she just couldn't admit it so she and her husband pretended the infant had been kidnapped?

And maybe I'm just weird, but I don't think Goren looked bad with the beard and the extra weight. D'Onofrio is six-three, and like most tall guys he can carry extra pounds, even a lot of extra pounds. I know what it symbolizes character-wise, Bobby's angst and depression, but it works for VOD as an actor.

Yes, you got it right, hence the episode name "Folie A Deux" which basically means a shared delusion between two people. I think it was mentioned within the episode that Calista (Perabo) was hospitalized before she married her douchebag cheating husband, so she had issues, anyway. But based on the end, it seems like her mind clung to the fact that her baby didn't die in the hot car (after her AC broke) while she was searching for said cheating hubby, so in her mind, Emma was still alive. Hubby didn't really believe it but fostered it to keep getting money out of old rich Aunt Emily (Vanessa Redgrave's character) and - I'd like to think but doubt it - a sense of guilt (since if Calista wasn't trying to find him that day the baby wouldn't have died).

Even so, I guess the money was no longer worth it since his aunt was pressuring him to see Emma, so that's why he likely decided to say Emma was "kidnapped" than help his wife face reality.

As for VDO and his weight, I said before he was tall and could carry it off. I just preferred his shorter hair and missed the suits.  :-) I think part of it was method acting by him since Bobby was in sort of a bad place for a while and basically stopped caring too much about his appearance, etc., as you pointed out.

[Maherjunkie]

I  heard it was written so  he could let himself go, but who knows.