Hoarders - General Discussion

[Elizzikra]

It was a depressing evening across the board...

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, Debbie was discouraging and hopeless (she was also a witness on a pageant kid Judge Judy case years ago).   

Christine was a waste of filming time, and ridiculous to even show.    You know her version of aftercare is whining about how every one was picking on her, made her look like a bad mother, and has everything still in storage.   I don't know how long ago this was filmed, but I bet the house is full of garbage again.    The finished rooms looked like room for little kids, not teenagers.   It makes me angry that she's homeschooling the kids, all she's teaching them is to be toddlers, and hoarders, and will never change.  The junk she claimed she was donating for Ukraine was useless.  

[Mollywolly555]

Watching the Christine episode, all I cd think is I'm watching a person with multiple mental health issues who is aware of them, yet not in treatment and actively passing them down to get children. 

Sad, but also EXTREMELY frustrating that Christine is doing that to her kids,  and that neighbor nor friend nor exhusband didn't get some kind of counseling for the family. 

So what that "Christine only ever wanted to be a mother", and lives for her daughters, she's is not raising them in a a mentally, emotionally,  physically healthy, safe space. 

"Dis is not good sitshation," in the words of the esteemed Dr Now (600 lb life).

Surprised that Child Protective Services didn't show up now and years before. 

 

[Mollywolly555]

Debbie was horrible.

Talking dismissively about grandson and his room in front of him!

Whining petulant,  NO,  when asked to donate some of her thousands shoes. 

Fiance is getting a load of crazy passive aggressiveness in the bargain. 

Boo to Dr. Z and Dr A,   the psychologists in these last 2 episodes. Useless. They needed to bring in extra help.

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, Mollywolly555 said:

Sad, but also EXTREMELY frustrating that Christine is doing that to her kids,  and that neighbor nor friend nor exhusband didn't get some kind of counseling for the family. 

I understand your frustration Molly, but how were they supposed to do that?  Friends and neighbors can't call up mental health workers and make appointments for other people, or force the mentally ill to go to them, even if they could.

We have a woman with schizophrenia in my family and you'd be surprised how impossible it is to "get help" for her even when  she's in the midst of serious psychosis. The men in white coats with straight jackets don't exist anymore, you have to  call the police to come and get them,  and the police kill far more mentally ill people than  actual criminals, that we hear so much about.

It's not the police's fault, they are dealing with very unpredictable people, but some estimates say that as many as half of all law enforcement homicides involve someone with severe psychiatric disease.  

Old neighbor Lynda was my hero in this so I hate to see her blamed for anything.

I couldn't believe that Lynda managed to make that kitchen sparkle like that in such a short time -- and then Christine walks in and instead of being amazed at the bright cleanliness, she walks straight to some flowered oven mitts and starts raving about them.  The girls were the same, finally getting some free space in the basement and their rooms, but showing more excitement over spotting some little "stuffy" they hadn't found for awhile. 

This show made me wonder if hoarding might be more on the autism spectrum than OCD.  Autistic people have often been known to love objects excessively.

Are there no rules for homeschoolers?  All across America children are growing up with no education because their mothers are claiming to be teaching them and doing nothing.

[LeesburgLee]

“This is good dirt” is going to be my motto from now on.

[Mollywolly555]

JudyObscure.....I agree with everything you said. 

I felt so sad for those girls and mom Christine. I was a Special Ed teacher and could go to different staff (speech therapy, psychologists, specialists,  even food, shoes and clothes to send home) for help and ideas. Raven,  the older girl went to some school they said. There are a few school-related resources and connections ... with staff or other parents...at least for a start.  Although I think Christine's extreme issues probably precluded any followup. 

Sadly, the mental health systems in US and Canada are nowhere near adequate for the population's needs including children. 

No, the The police are definitely not the answer.

There are state regulations for home schooling but very loosey-goosey. No one really checks. I had several homeschooled kids come thru my GED community classes. Bright students by and large who were readers, so they did ok. I know of other parents who had troubled kids (drugs, computer game obsession,  or even just adolescent disrespectful behavior), and/or  parents themselves  did not like being held them responsible for kids tardiness/absences, so they essentially gave up and pulled kids  out of school. There's all kinds of reasons 

Christine's episode was a composite view of so many issues related to mental health. Frustrating and sad. Hopefully, Lynda and Sheena and sister from Texas provide some kind of alternative role models for healthier behaviors for those girls. 

[satrunrose]

Oh, man, this was a toughie. Certainly, more than for a lot of hoarders, I wondered if Christine's ADHD and anxiety were being appropriately managed and if the clean-up would have been easier if they had. I'm also really caught on the whole home-schooling thing. Support for higher-needs students is great in theory but stretched wildly thin in practice where I am. Raven seemed functional enough that she would just have to hope to get a series of teachers that were committed to meaningful inclusion and didn't have so many competing needs that Raven got overlooked. Homeschooling in a setting like this one, on the other hand, seemed horrible, no matter the state of the schooling available. I also wondered how much of Raven's 16 going on 8 persona was her autism, and how much of it was social isolation. 

I'm often curious, although I get why they don't, what would happen if you told a person like Christine that they are, in fact a poor parent. Good parenting isn't about having multiple pairs of snowshoes just in case you get around to it someday; it's having a safe, clean, non-smelly environment for the kids to enjoy time together with stuff they actually use. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Susan, S16.E09, New 12/2/2024 Season 16 / Episode 09 (Season Finale) (Another episode from Hoarders Canada).

Susan is a single mother with six children. She's been a mom since she was 16, and it's what she likes to do best. But it's taking a toll on her house--and her mental health. She spends her days in bed, avoiding the mountains of dirty laundry.

Susan lives in Lake Charlotte, Nova Scotia.   Place is piled shoulder high, some pathways   Her bearded dragons have decent conditions, better than Susan in living in.   When her brother died in 2014, she took his four sons in to raise. Oldest son Chase appears, also brother Levi, and a daughter.  Her sister Terri appears too.  Susan lost her job, and supports her family with health insurance (I have no idea what that means). 

Susan got pregnant at 16, raising her son alone, she married at 27, and had a daughter.   Daughter says mother will rehoard immediately.   There's a small table where they eat.  There are mounds of laundry, clean and dirty.  Susan avoids everything.   I'm so concerned for the psychologist Natasha, she's pregnant and exposing herself to a house that is probably full of vermin.  

Psychologist is Natasha Sharma, organizer is Julio.    Sister Terri, and daughter Nicky, show up for the clean up.  Daughter says she didn't grow up in this hoarded house, but a previous house that was also full of junk.  

 There are no working smoke detectors.  Sister Terri who was a volunteer firefighter for 25 years is disgusted by the missing smoke alarms, and the danger to the sons and Susan in case of fire. Terri was going through a tough divorce, and Susan took her dogs in, and some items to sell and Susan never sold any of the items.  Part of the ceiling has a water leak, and there is black mold.  Daughter thinks Susan won't be changed.  

Day One-Fortunately, Susan has a large yard for organizing.  Susan is already keeping at least 80%, including broken and useless shoes.   Nicky is having trouble discarding things too, because her mother won't like it. Susan't bedroom had garbage underneath the piles, and lots of mouse poop.  

Sorting the clothes is going slowly.  Susan doesn't care about mouse feces everywhere, or the missing smoke alarms.  Susan says it's one mouse, it's never one mouse.  

Day Two-I really like the organizer and cleaner Julio.   Julio has an exterminator visit.  Exterminator says top priority is blocking mouse access into the house, and one way doors on mouse entry points so they leave and can't come back in.  Susan is getting angry at Chase and Nicky making decisions for her.   Daughter Nicky is having a hard time getting rid of anything because her mother fights her on everything.     

Julio brings an appraiser to look at her vinyl collection, old radio, record player. Appraiser says $1500 to $2000 for all of the collection, then Susan drops a bomb, and says she's keeping it all for the kids inheritance.  Daughter Nicky is overwhelmed with the whole process, and lack of progress, so Natasha talks with her.   

Day Three-Still hopeless. She refuses to get of anything that's not in a complete set until it's all together.  Susan makes zero sense.   This clean up is a failure, and a waste of time.  Natasha has Nicky tell her mother about her feelings about the failing cleanup.    Susan claims to understand, but she really doesn't.  In the final hours Susan is moving at a snail's pace.  Remaining items Susan didn't get to will be stored, so she can look through them during aftercare (no, I don't believe she's going to get rid of anything.)  The poor house cleaning crew has a tremendous job to do. 

House looks nice, but you know it won't stay that way. I hope that's new furniture, not mouse poop furniture.  Susan still needs to go through the clothing piles after they're cleaned and returned, and claims she'll get rid of a lot.  Bedrooms still have storage bins of stuff.  The moldy ceiling was removed and fixed. 

Epilogue-Susan agreed to aftercare, and is working through the remaining boxes.  She claims she goes shopping less, and only buys what she needs. 

(My guess is Susan will keep everything, and churn endlessly, and just use aftercare to whine about everyone stealing her stuff, and being mean to her.  I don't believe she only buys what she needs). 

 

Jim and Susan, Rerun, Season 3 / Episode 15, 12/06/2010

After decades of hoarding, Jim is estranged from his siblings and children.

Susan’s towering hoard has forced Susan and her husband out of their home.

 

Hoarders Coming Clean: Tim  (Season 12, Episode 6, 2021) in Citrus Heights, California, sees the value in repurposing and using materials for all types of projects, which has led him to collect a massive amount of clutter over the years.Tim has hoarded two houses, and over half an acre of property. 

From the original episode thread : 52 years of junk, two houses across the street from each other, and a half acre of junk.   Another car hoarder.   Tell me he's lived there 52 years, not that he's 52, because he looks 72.    OK, must be older because he's been married 52 years.    

I bet Code Enforcement hates him.   I feel so sorry for his neighbors.  That aerial view that shows that green, stagnant pool is a health hazard.   

I wish code enforcement would toss him out, bulldoze both houses, and throw it all in a dumpster.      His brother will say they have a good relationship, and then the cleanup starts, and the mean person comes out.   The nephew has been living there for a long time, wonder what his back story is?  

Tim might be smart, but the smart hoarders seem to be the most stubborn, and mean hoarders too.  A 4,000 sq ft home packed full.   So now he's blaming it on the wife, and claiming she can't say what she feels.    Another one who thinks their junk is worth so much, and the auction house rep won't take anything.  Zasio was the therapist, and Tim is also a therapist.   Even the second house where the nephew lives is piled to the ceiling, with a tiny trail to the kitchen.  Tim also claims the wife went into a catatonic state years ago, and he says she's still fragile.   He's such a bully to her, under the guise of protecting her. 

Tim is 76.   The family thinks Zasio will help them?   When the wife refuses to speak up, then Zasio can't get her to.     TIme cleans out virtually nothing, except some in the main house with a living room and kitchen.  Yards are still mostly full.  No surprise Tim regrets cleaning anything out.   Cory has an update about hoarders, and how difficult Tim was. 

Hoarders Coming Clean: Eric was standing in the kitchen at the beginning, bragging that if they took everything out of his kitchen, he could turn in back into a garbage dump in five days.     He started hoarding before his wife got sick, and I don't think he'll ever keep the house cleared out.  (Season 12, Episode 1, 2021)

The ending said that over 200 boxes were stored in the garage, attic, sunroom, and other places after the clean up.   I bet he was opening boxes, and piling stuff up downstairs before the crew was out of sight.    

The ending was that the family will come over soon, and have a little celebration with Eric.    His wife died two years ago, and supposedly that was when the hoarding went wild.   My guess is the attic, and any other storage areas were chock full long before the wife died.     The sister or sister-in-law said that the last time the dining room was clean was a when her adult kids were 10 to 14, and they're one of them is almost 30, so another lying hoarder.     I suspect that even though Eric claimed the wife didn't allow him to hoard, then I'm betting there were a couple of clean rooms, but only where the wife stayed.   

Sadly Zasio revisited Eric on a Where Are They Now (I think last season), and he has rehoarded everything since the episode was filmed, I think 2 or 3 years ago.  

Edited December 3 by CrazyInAlabama

[JudyObscure]

Susan is so proud of herself for being a single mom of 6 kids that she will never ask anything else of herself but that. 

 She lost me when she said her husband didn't seem that interested in being a husband or father so she left him -- when the baby was six months old. I don't think she gave him a chance. I expect she just wanted to return to being the much admired single mom, living it up on the dole. 

I imagine she got a social security check for each of the four boys to add to her "health insurance" for that anxiety.  Funny how she got through the gigantic, stressful hoard purge without a panic attack but could never manage a quiet office job -- even though she's saved a few hundred pairs of shoes for it.

I felt like the only truthful moment was when her daughter said that whenever she asked her mother for anything, she was told she couldn't afford it and then Susan would go spend $200 at Family Dollar. Something made Susan think spending all the family money on clothes for herself was okay because it was at second hand stores.

20 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

(My guess is Susan will keep everything, and churn endlessly, and just use aftercare to whine about everyone stealing her stuff, and being mean to her.  I don't believe she only buys what she needs). 

Absolutely.  I really wanted someone to call her on, "I bought these things for a reason."  Yeah,  tell us some of those reasons Susan.  I'd be interested to hear the reason for the 78th pair of black pants or that special candle-a- bra.

 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I imagine she got a social security check for each of the four boys

She's Canadian. Does Canada have social security?

Quote

 She lost me when she said her husband didn't seem that interested in being a husband or father so she left him -- when the baby was six months old. I don't think she gave him a chance. I expect she just wanted to return to being the much admired single mom, living it up on the dole. 

Huh. I don't see a lot of people expressing tons of admiration for single mothers, particularly those who receive public assistance. I see a lot of doubt and derision. I don't know of anyone who lives it up" on public assistance. 

 

59 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Funny how she got through the gigantic, stressful hoard purge without a panic attack but could never manage a quiet office job -- even though she's saved a few hundred pairs of shoes for it

That didn't surprise me at all. First, I don't know a lot of "quiet office jobs." They tend to involve dealing with other people and often strangers. We also did see her panic right during the first meeting with the therapist and several times when she identified that emotions were escalating during the clean up. I think that her anxiety and mental health issues were very real. I don't see her as just a lazy woman who wants to sit back and live on someone else's dollar. 

[JudyObscure]

Canadians have a system like The U. S.  social security system. It pays monthly Survivor income for children whose parents have died as well as the disabled and senior citizens.

I may be being too hard on Susan and I don't doubt she loved those boys, but I thought she bragged a little too much about taking them in when it wasn't she who was working to support them but the tax payers.  It was her daughter's story about her mother spending so much money on herself and not on her children that made me suspicious.

[Mollywolly555]

Tim. The worst personality I have seen bec he was so passive aggressive, arrogant, petulant towards everyone including his "fragile" wife,  Wilhelmina.

He was gaslighting her about her illness (?), which was also obvious depression symptoms and reinforcing her symptoms with isolation as well. Classic emotional abuser actions. Trying to convince others that he was protecting her and demanding they not interact with his sweetie.  Sure, Jan. I think he He broke her with his hoarding and possessiveness and domination. She kept saying that "She can't change him." I was yelling at the TV, then you need to change yourself and get out. But she's been brainwashed that he cares fur her.  Poor lady.

The show afternotes said Tim regretted the whole process. I bet he did,  cuz he wasn't in control keeping  his precious outdated, dirty crap. Code enforcement sh throw the book at him and do a forced clean out,  and put Wilhelmina in assisted care or with that niece(?), who also had big time issues.I hope niece got help, too.

[Mollywolly555]

Eric, the guy whose wife Szilvie died in the home of cancer, was super sad.

Grief is neverending.

He is very lonely too.

He needs therapy bigtime for his hoarding and involvement  in another daily activity to keep him busy.  Bros sh step in and  do stuff with him. He cd go to Senior center for socialization. There wd be so many others he cd share his grief and physical issues with there too, in informal conversations.  They get it. 

Also,  if he owed so much on credit cards,   where is he getting $ to shop and rehoard? More credit cards? Vultures. 

Eric had a great Sam Elliot voice,  though. I really liked listening to him.

[Mollywolly555]

So I was churning through my own stuff yesterday as I was watching Tim and Eric on DVR. 

I would love some advice.  I have alot of craft crap....yarns,  fabric, paper, stamps, pillows,  magazines, books, and clothes. All are neat, clean, organized in bookshelves, clear labeled bins or hung up in closets.

Clothes are sorted into 3 closets--cold westher, warm westher, and those to alter or too small  but I like them and hope for diet to get off that plateau someday and descend. 

I have alot of interests and since being retired am trying to get to do it all, but progress on actually finishing projects is sporadic. I like color, texture, visual stimulation. 

Then I get a new idea for crafting and buy supplies. at craft stores or thrift stores... which then I have to organize.

This week,  I did finish several Cristmas decor projects I saw in magazines-- wreaths, home decor stuff. They came out great and it was fun and challenging. But I realize I don't have room for it all and my house is starting to look junky. I don't have family nearby to give it to. 

Any suggestions?

[AZChristian]

@Mollywolly555

Since your stuff is tidy and organized, you're way ahead of the game.

If it were me, I would tell myself, "No new crafts or new projects until some of the current stuff is either used up or donated."  As a crocheter, I've had bins full of yarn . . . but nothing ever seemed "right" for the next pattern that caught my eye.  So I bought more yarn.

Then I found out about Project Linus.  They have knitters, crocheters, and quilters who make blankets and hats for hospitals, and they also make blankets for kids in foster homes.  Those kids have so little that they actually own, and a Project Linus blanket goes with them wherever they go.  

I'm sure there are charities for other crafters as well.  It was easy for me to let go of a LOT of stuff that I was realistically not going to use.

Regarding the clothes . . . put the "too small" stuff in a bin with a date label one year away.  If you haven't gotten into the clothes by the time the year is up, donate them as well.

Edited December 5 by AZChristian

[LeesburgLee]

1 hour ago, Mollywolly555 said:

 

Any suggestions?

Do you know any teachers, especially for the early years like pre-K through maybe 2nd grade? I was clearing out some old craft stuff a few years ago and my neighbor, a 1st grade teacher, saw some yarn sticking out of a box. She asked if she could have the yarn for her kids for class projects. She took everything.

Seconding the Project Linus suggestion!
 

 

[Mollywolly555]

Great ideas! Thank you!

My church always collects lots of items for Native reservations, new Christmas gifts or old and young, and gently used items like winter wear,  plus food items. I was looking at the list today and noticed that they wanted sewing supplies! 

My biggest priority is to stop shopping. Duh. :)