S07.E08: Sleeper

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Love the gag that Billy Idol stole his image from Spike rather than the other way around. Some very effective horror and some nice comedy with Anya and Spike .

The Bad; Nothing bad but this is a bridging episode

Best line; Anya; "If I get bitten I'm going to come back as a vampire and bite your ass!" Xander (smiling) "Wouldn't be the first time"

Women good/men bad; When Spike rejects her Anya fears she's fat? (One of my favourite aspects of Terminator;SCC was Cameron's attempts to fit in as an American high school girl which she largely mastered by remembering the phrases "Bitchwhore much?" and "Does this make me look fat?")

Jeez!; Spike biting pretty coeds

Kinky dinky; Naked Spike under the sheets. Anya suggests some kinky stuff with the stake and says unsouled Spike would have her upside down and halfway to her happy place when souled Spike rejects her. Spike has no problem picking up women who seem a satire on the Spikettes. Xander seems to have a pornographic magazine on his table when Spike walks out. The bouncer is happy to let a girl as hot as Buffy in the club for free. She describes Spike as sallow but in a hot way. See also best line.

Captain Subtext; The vamp at the Bronze suggests she'll take the boy and Spike can take the girl or 'the other way around'.

Apocalypses; 7,

Scoobies in bondage: Spike at the end for the first time since he became a Scooby. Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 4 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 2 Dawn; 4 Spike; 1

Scoobies knocked out: Xander by Spike Buffy: 19 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 15 Will: 8 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;5 Dawn; 4 Tara; 1

Kills: 1 vamp Spike, 7 vamps for Buffy (will she reach the magic 200 kills before the end of the series?) Buffy: 117 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god. Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human. Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil: Spike and how Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Buffy; 1 Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 12 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara

Sunnydale deaths; another 2 civies 101

Total number of scoobies: 6, Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Buffy; 1 Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 13

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

Questions and observations; Xander refers to CSI (another point against Normal Again being true). He also remembers Holden Webster from SDH referring to him as 'Webs' (but then he'd have gone to school with him longer than Buffy did). One assumes the harmonica player Buffy passes is The First as he plays 'early one morning' and The First knows what Buffy is wearing when it appears later. Aimie Mann is great and she plays one of my favourite tunes from the Radio Sunnydale album. Oddly the vamp at the Bronz speaks of her and Spike being 'soul mates'. Vamps in the basement are very Evil Dead. What's the First's plan for them, is it just building an army to try and take over Sunnydale?

Marks out of 10; 7/10

[lembergwatcher]

Just another missed opportunity for Buffy to finally do her job and stake the bleached bastard. Innocent people killed by "ensouled", "reformed" and "good" Spike were quite a legit reason to finish him off IMO. Yet even the dead bodies apparently weren't enough for the Slayer to stop acting like Spikey's groupie. Sigh. 

[Halting Hex]

Quote

WILLOW:  Buffy, some force of evil tried to get me to commit suicide by playing on my grief over Tara and my guilt about my murders.

BUFFY:  And you're what, expecting me to blink or talk to you or acknowledge you exist?  Weird.

Quote

XANDER:  Hey, Buff, you know that undead mass-murderer you insisted I invite into my house and live with?  Well, he just knocked me unconscious and ran off.

BUFFY:  Damn, we have to find Spike!  He might be in danger!

(beat)

XANDER:   And I'm what, surprised by this?  (hangs up)

Also, much as I don't like Anya, it would probably be nice if Xander mentioned that "Spike-tried-to-rape-Buffy" secret he's been keeping before he left Anya alone to "watch"/flirt with Blondie Bear.  Give the girl all the info before you drop her into the lions' den.

Marks, 1/10 because 0s should be more elementally repulsive than this.  This is merely devoid of anything good. (I hate the Aimee Mann speaking part, although her songs are fine.) Yay?

Spoiler

On the plus side, it's also the final episode that's devoid of Andrew.  Which is the real reason to praise it.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Xander refers to CSI (another point against Normal Again being true).

What?  I don't get this.  Was Anthony Zuiker not making his million$ in the Asylumverse, or something?  Please explain.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Jack Shaftoe]

Why the hell does Anya need to watch Spike during a freaking sunny day? What do they expect him to do, go kill people in the sunlight? And even if he did, how is she supposed to stop him? Why not give her a key and tell her to come around sunset?

Hey, Xander can't actually stop the superpowered guy from leaving? Who would have thunk it?

Don't you just love the mental gymnastics that allow Spike to kill again but not get punished? So he is under some sort of mind control but wait, it breaks just at the right time for no apparent reason and of course Buffy completely buys it because Spike deciding on his own to get back to killing is so unlikely. Remind me again if Buffy knows someone who was doing just that a few episodes ago? What's her name, An... something? Nah, can't happen, it has to be mind control, Buffy's perfectly fine risking people's lives to prove it.

Buffy is also terrible at following people apparently because she managed to lose Spike on the first night.

On the bright side, Willow still looks super hot. That's something, right?

[Halting Hex]

14 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

On the bright side, Willow still looks super hot.

I actually didn't notice, because I was so righteously angry, and I don't know if I ever rewatched this one.  But…yeah:

I should point out that nothing in this episode indicates that Spike was "not responsible" for the murder last episode.  We didn't see anybody talking to him (but we did see something talking to Buffy, Willow and Dawn, and hovering near Andrew), and we didn't hear any Magic Murder Music.  If it was "mind control", we really only have Spike's word for it.

And we know how much that's worth…

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

WILLOW
I mean, no, there's not really an increase in neck injuries, but...

BUFFY
But what?

WILLOW
Oh. Missing people. Eight, maybe. Oh, ten of them. No bodies, they're just missing. Mostly young. Lots of girls.

DAWN
So, it's true? What that vampire told Buffy turned out to be true.

BUFFY
Maybe. But it still doesn't prove that it's Spike. Right now, he's the only one who knows for sure.

Hi, Buff, how's it going on the Island of Denial? And Spike supposed to be a little bit insane AFAIK... So how could he "know" something for sure?

 

Quote

Buffy walks over to Spike, still carrying the wooden handle. She stands in front of him. He looks at her, knowing his fate, and scoots out of the cubbyhole he was hiding in. He holds open his shirt. He's crying.

SPIKE
Do it fast, OK? He said you'd do it.

BUFFY
Who said?

SPIKE
Me. It was me. I saw it. I was here the whole time, talking and singing. (sobs) There was a song.

BUFFY
What are you talking about?

SPIKE
I don't know. Please, I don't remember. Don't make me remember. (to invisible person) Make it so I forget again! I did what you wanted!

BUFFY
There's something here. (throws away the wooden tool handle)

Although Buffy has never been an intellectual of the group, such level of gullibility was too much even for her. And Spikey the Crybaby... What a cheap drama queen... I bet he knew damn well Buffy would never "do it", fast or slow.

[Halting Hex]

16 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

SPIKE (to invisible person) Make it so I forget again! I did what you wanted!

Wait…so Spike knew he was committing murder?  He did it so he would get something of value to him (the ability to forget)?

Holy shit, that's so completely guilty.  "Mind control", my tiny scissors!  He did a specific act for a specific benefit, that's as sane as it gets.

I like a good BtVS/Law & Order crossover fic as much as the next fan, but I think Buffy might have to give up her defense lawyer career.  Call Danielle Melnick, see if she's got something more creative up her sleeve.  (Not that Danielle won too many against McCoy; Charles Garnett had a better record, for example.  But Danielle always went down swinging.)

I'd forgotten that line, honestly.

(ETA:  I mean, obviously Spike's got an easy "not guilty by reason of mental defect" plea there, what with his seeing things and hearing voices, so if he wants a course of anti-psychotic drugs, that's one thing. Pop open the Haldol.  But to claim that he's "not responsible" because he was "forced" to kill…yeah, not so much.)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Just another missed opportunity for Buffy to finally do her job and stake the bleached bastard. Innocent people killed by "ensouled", "reformed" and "good" Spike were quite a legit reason to finish him off IMO. Yet even the dead bodies apparently weren't enough for the Slayer to stop acting like Spikey's groupie. Sigh. 

No, Spike is brainwashed, he's not culpable for his actions any more than Buffy in Normal Again, Xander in The Pack or Willow in Bad Eggs. 

20 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Also, much as I don't like Anya, it would probably be nice if Xander mentioned that "Spike-tried-to-rape-Buffy" secret he's been keeping before he left Anya alone to "watch"/flirt with Blondie Bear.  Give the girl all the info before you drop her into the lions' den.

Marks, 1/10 because 0s should be more elementally repulsive than this.  This is merely devoid of anything good. (I hate the Aimee Mann speaking part, although her songs are fine.) Yay?

  Hide contents

On the plus side, it's also the final episode that's devoid of Andrew.  Which is the real reason to praise it.

 

What?  I don't get this.  Was Anthony Zuiker not making his million$ in the Asylumverse, or something?  Please explain.

I assume Anya knows about the rape but you're right it's never explicitly stated. Aimee Mann has ONE LINE!

CSI started in 2000 so if Buffy is a catatonic girl in the asylum since 1997 how would she know about it?

[Joe Hellandback]

19 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Why the hell does Anya need to watch Spike during a freaking sunny day? What do they expect him to do, go kill people in the sunlight? And even if he did, how is she supposed to stop him? Why not give her a key and tell her to come around sunset?

Hey, Xander can't actually stop the superpowered guy from leaving? Who would have thunk it?

Don't you just love the mental gymnastics that allow Spike to kill again but not get punished? So he is under some sort of mind control but wait, it breaks just at the right time for no apparent reason and of course Buffy completely buys it because Spike deciding on his own to get back to killing is so unlikely. Remind me again if Buffy knows someone who was doing just that a few episodes ago? What's her name, An... something? Nah, can't happen, it has to be mind control, Buffy's perfectly fine risking people's lives to prove it.

Buffy is also terrible at following people apparently because she managed to lose Spike on the first night.

On the bright side, Willow still looks super hot. That's something, right?

Spike can get about during the day, he has before, Plus they want to keep him under general observation not just make sure he doesn't go out. Yes, Xander can stop him, crosses, holy water etc

Spike killing is good because it works in sense of ambiguity, we think Spike's good but then he's suddenly not?

Yeah, Buff's no good at undercover, she almost always gets caught but I assume

Spoiler

the First posed as Spike to mislead her.  

Willow always looks hot, except when she's wearing her horrible yellow tights. 

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Wait…so Spike knew he was committing murder?  He did it so he would get something of value to him (the ability to forget)?

Holy shit, that's so completely guilty.  "Mind control", my tiny scissors!  He did a specific act for a specific benefit, that's as sane as it gets.

I like a good BtVS/Law & Order crossover fic as much as the next fan, but I think Buffy might have to give up her defense lawyer career.  Call Danielle Melnick, see if she's got something more creative up her sleeve.  (Not that Danielle won too many against McCoy; Charles Garnett had a better record, for example.  But Danielle always went down swinging.)

I'd forgotten that line, honestly.

(ETA:  I mean, obviously Spike's got an easy "not guilty by reason of mental defect" plea there, what with his seeing things and hearing voices, so if he wants a course of anti-psychotic drugs, that's one thing. Pop open the Haldol.  But to claim that he's "not responsible" because he was "forced" to kill…yeah, not so much.)

In a world where people can be mind controlled remotely the prosecution wouldn't stand a chance, it would be like holding someone liable for their actions when they're under roofies.  

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

No, Spike is brainwashed, he's not culpable for his actions any more than Buffy in Normal Again, Xander in The Pack or Willow in Bad Eggs.

Spike's state of mind is totally irrelevant at that point from where I stand (Kralik was crazy too but Buffy didn't give a damn, and rightfully so). Unlike Buffy, Xander or Willow, Spikey isn't exactly human - therefore the norms of human society (incarcerating dangerous psychotic criminals in the loony bins instead of executing them) need not apply in his case. And would you mind telling me how many people did Buffy, Willow and Xander kill while being temporarily insane/mind controlled?  

[Jack Shaftoe]

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

In a world where people can be mind controlled remotely the prosecution wouldn't stand a chance, it would be like holding someone liable for their actions when they're under roofies.  

And yet Spike was able to resist this mind control when he was about to kill Buffy. More importantly, Buffy has no way of knowing if it's mind control or, you know, Spike pulling an Anya and yet she is adamant that he is somehow innocent. Like many other occasions in S7 the protagonists behave as if they have read the scripts for the next episodes because the whole season is written in an extremely amateurish fashion.

[Joe Hellandback]

23 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Spike's state of mind is totally irrelevant at that point from where I stand (Kralik was crazy too but Buffy didn't give a damn, and rightfully so). Unlike Buffy, Xander or Willow, Spikey isn't exactly human - therefore the norms of human society (incarcerating dangerous psychotic criminals in the loony bins instead of executing them) need not apply in his case. And would you mind telling me how many people did Buffy, Willow and Xander kill while being temporarily insane/mind controlled?  

No it's not, he's not culpable, Kralik was gleefully killing because he was a psycho even before he was a vampire. Spike was controlled and any of the possessed Scoobs could have killed someone whilst crazy in grief Willow did!

18 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

And yet Spike was able to resist this mind control when he was about to kill Buffy. More importantly, Buffy has no way of knowing if it's mind control or, you know, Spike pulling an Anya and yet she is adamant that he is somehow innocent. Like many other occasions in S7 the protagonists behave as if they have read the scripts for the next episodes because the whole season is written in an extremely amateurish fashion.

But Buffy has clues to this, it's not just her treating Spike differently because they were lovers. 

[lembergwatcher]

Sometimes I think Aimee Mann would've been much better Veruca. At least she can sing.

[Joe Hellandback]

Just been watching s5 of Gotham, I wonder what they've been watching in the writer's room?

[Halting Hex]

Is Bruce acting like Selina's defense attorney?  (I don't follow the series, although I did once catch the end of an episode where Selina fought Harley Quinn [I was waiting for The Orville to start].  Decent casting, although it's just odd to see them so young, even if that is the series premise.)