S07.E06: Him

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:32 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

We are going in circles but let me try one more time. As of Villains, Spike's "devotion" to Buffy had most recently been expressed by means of an attempted rape. Buffy saw first hand Spike's "devotion" to Drusilla led to him knocking her out and carrying her to his car, betraying his "ally" Angel in the process (and no, he didn't do it to save the world, his speech about Man Utd and so on was a big lie, he was just pissed at Angel and Dru). He then proceeded to betray Buffy herself on a number of occasions, including yet another kidnapping of the "Why don't you love me, you bitch?" variety. Explain to me how trusting someone with this kind of track record makes sense, please. The guy is not only evil but mentally unstable as well.

As for Spike not being able to hurt Dawn, first, he wasn't able to hurt Warren either which made the whole scene in Villains all kinds of ridiculous. More importantly, it would have been trivial for him to have Dawn killed by somebody else, had he wanted to do so.

Any way you slice it, the Scoobies toleration of Spike in S4-6 is a really clumsy plot armor. Episodes like No Place Like Home where neither Buffy, nor Spike show any signs of even remembering the events of the previous episode only drive home what was painfully obvious anyway.

But as he tells her, she makes him better. Plus why would he want to hurt Dawn?

[lembergwatcher]

18 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Plus why would he want to hurt Dawn?

Because he's evil.

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Plus why would he want to hurt Dawn?

Because Buffy rejected him.  And refused to listen to his "perfectly logical" reason for sleeping with Anya.  And kicked his ass.  And told him she could never love him.  And now she wants to put him back on Dawnsitting duty, like none of that ever happened?

Fuck her.

See how she feels when I turn the nibblet into a bloody smear.  That'll learn her.

That's why he would want to hurt Dawn.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Yeah, there are so many real life rejected boyfriends (and more rarely girlfriends) who do all kinds of awful things out of spite without being serial killers with no conscience.

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Because Buffy rejected him.  And refused to listen to his "perfectly logical" reason for sleeping with Anya.  And kicked his ass.  And told him she could never love him.  And now she wants to put him back on Dawnsitting duty, like none of that ever happened?

Fuck her.

See how she feels when I turn the nibblet into a bloody smear.  That'll learn her.

That's why he would want to hurt Dawn.

Perhaps she knows him better?

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Perhaps she knows him better?

Rather a large chance to take, I'd say.

And that whole bathroom drama would seem to indicate that Buffy isn't as good at predicting Spike's reactions as she'd previously thought she was.  (And the fact that when she overrides Xander's objections and does take Dawn to Spike's, he's blown town, rather than sitting around looking for some way to make it up to her, as she assumed he would be, is more evidence that she's not the "what would Spike do?" genius she thinks she is.)

Which, to bring the discussion back to this episode, makes Buffy look rather dubious for dropping Spike on Xander given that (as Buffy herself tells Dawn) she has no idea what his new SOOOOOOOOOOULLL means.  It just seems very inconsiderate of Buffy to risk Xander's safety that way.  But JMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:24 PM, Halting Hex said:

Rather a large chance to take, I'd say.

And that whole bathroom drama would seem to indicate that Buffy isn't as good at predicting Spike's reactions as she'd previously thought she was.  (And the fact that when she overrides Xander's objections and does take Dawn to Spike's, he's blown town, rather than sitting around looking for some way to make it up to her, as she assumed he would be, is more evidence that she's not the "what would Spike do?" genius she thinks she is.)

Which, to bring the discussion back to this episode, makes Buffy look rather dubious for dropping Spike on Xander given that (as Buffy herself tells Dawn) she has no idea what his new SOOOOOOOOOOULLL means.  It just seems very inconsiderate of Buffy to risk Xander's safety that way.  But JMO.

He's still chipped so Xander is safe. And Spike blows town in order to make it up to Buffy. 

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

XANDER
Will, honey... R.J.'s a guy.

WILLOW
I did notice that, yeah. 'S why I'm doing my spell, 'cause, you know, he doesn't have to be. (reaches) Now, hand me back my crystals. I don't have much time.

XANDER
(holds the crystals out of her reach) Much time before what?

WILLOW
Before Buffy and Anya and Dawn have a chance to prove that they love R.J. the most.

XANDER
And how are they gonna do that, exactly?

WILLOW
Well, Buffy's gonna kill Principal Wood, Any—

XANDER
Fine, OK, let's start there.

It seems like Willow is about to tell Xander what's Anya gonna do despite Anya leaving Casa Summers abruptly and without a word and before actually asking the former demon herself. Just look at that beautiful dialogue at the very end of an ep:

Quote

WILLOW
Hey, Anya, you never told us what you can't believe you almost.

ANYA
(playing dumb) Almost who, now?

WILLOW
No, you can't be the only not embarrassed one. What did you do?

Hilarious. Just hilarious. The only probable explanation is Willow's ability to read minds. Maybe the wicca plays dumb in order to make Anya embarass herself in front of the others or what.

[Halting Hex]

"Anya wouldn't say, but come on, it's Anya, it can't be anything good."

[Joe Hellandback]

23 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

"Anya wouldn't say, but come on, it's Anya, it can't be anything good."

They were fighting over Xander, now they were fighting over RJ

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

XANDER

Family stuff. Hey, I knew his brother. He was a big jock at Sunnydale High too. Couple years ahead of us. He used to stick chewing gum in my hair. (Willow looks horrified) Huh.

WILLOW
What're you thinking?

XANDER
Well, I think my relationship with R.J.'s brother was complex at best, but...maybe he's a way in.

I don't get it. Xander knew R.J.'s older brother but Willow didn't? How's that possible? Shouldn't Xander say "Me and Will, we knew his brother" instead? 'Cause I have the impression that his words are meant for Willow and not Anya who's most likely not familiar with all the details regarding her former fiancé's school days. And that horrified look on Willow's face indicates she learns about chewing gum in Xander's hair for the first time...  Was Xander too embarrased to tell his best friend about Lance's chewing gum? How did Willow learn about Rodney Munson, after all?..   

[Halting Hex]

Well, Rodney was over.  It took five years, but he stopped beating Xander up, "every day".  And maybe that was before the "we haven't always been close" estrangement that Willow refers to in The Pack.  (And what was that about, anyway?)  

Maybe once Willow and Xander were the bestest buds of bestest buds once more (did Jesse negotiate a peace treaty?  Did it involve Xander joining the "We Hate Cordelia Chase" club?), Xander decided not to tell Willow about every piece of bullying he encountered.  And maybe Willow never knew about that?  Huh.

[Halting Hex]

So, I've mostly put Shan on pause (because she was doing S6 and why do I need to submit myself to that while there are still other options in video-reactor land?), but she'd reached this one and I took a peek to see her again. 

Surprisingly, she wasn't too fond of the episode (she thought the "magic jacket" was too rapey a Maguffin in these days of #MeToo), but she did point out one thing of note:  when Xander walks on Buffy and RJ doing…whatever they're doing in that classroom, it's at least the third time Xander's barged in on her that way.  First with Riley in WTWTA ("Xander!  Don't you knock?") and then catching Spike doing his "naked pushups" in Gone, and now this one.  (He "only" spotted Buffy tongue-kissing a supposedly Hell-banished Angel in Revelations, but he didn't actually walk into the room that time.)  It's a little odd that he's always doing it, especially since (as I was reminded while watching Liam's vid for The Wish) Xander himself got walked in on at the factory in Lovers Walk and objected to Cordy and Oz not knocking then.

I mean, doors are there to be used, Xand.  A little courtesy goes a long way.  Does Tara barge in on Willow in Entropy because she's been hanging out with Xander too often?  (Although, sadly, Willow is not having sex with Buffy at that particular moment, but that's a different issue…)

(Up next for Liam is Amends, where we see that even Angel knows to knock.  Although, to be fair, he only knocks on Giles's door because he can't just come in without an invitation.  But still…if you don't train the vampires, how are they gonna learn?  Hate to say that Xander should be taking courtesy lessons from Captain Forehead, but there's exceptions to every rule, I suppose.)

[Joe Hellandback]

Actually tends to be Dawnie who's the voyeur, she always seems to be watching Buffy and others getting it on. 

[lembergwatcher]

Alright, there's fanfic challenge from me regarding S.07E.06.

Years after the incident between Dawn and O'Donnell the younger Summers ends up in the the penitentiary institution for some petty crime. There she encounters her old acquaintance in warden's uniform...

[Joe Hellandback]

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Alright, there's fanfic challenge from me regarding S.07E.06.

Years after the incident between Dawn and O'Donnell the younger Summers ends up in the the penitentiary institution for some petty crime. There she encounters her old acquaintance in warden's uniform...

Swap it with Angela Sarafyan (Lori) and that's a great idea. Oddly she appeared in 'Breaking Dawn'. 

[Halting Hex]

Regarding whether Buffy should trust Spike:

On 11/24/2018 at 5:44 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

As You Were just rammed it home to her 

To quote Giles, "Oh, for want of a better phrasing!"

(As You Were, we recall, is where Buffy gets it "rammed home" literally on her front lawn.)