Joe Hellandback November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 The Good; DarkWillow saving Buffy then her relentless pursuit of Warren. The Geeks in jail, the heartbreaking scenes with Buffy, Dawn and Xander. The Bad; Surely the Sunnydale police must need to get lengthy witness statements from Buffy and Xander? Wouldn't they hang around the house after the paramedics report the shooting? Buffy appears to have heart surgery yet keep her top on. Also the bullet seems awfully high in her chest to have damaged her heart. Best line; Xander; "I've had blood on my hands all day, blood of people I love" Women good/men bad; Everything that comes out of Warrens mouth. DarkWillow states that he has a big thing about the Slayer because he wants to dominate powerful women. Captain Subtext; Jonathon is very nervous of his prospects in prison, Andrew by contrast is surprisingly blase(?) Clem says he's been dying to see The Wedding Planner? Guantanamo Bay; DarkWillow tortures Warren Scoobies to the ER; Buffy to the operating table. You wonder if DarkWillow saved Buffy or if the surgeons or Slayer healing would have done it anyway? Apocalypses; 6 Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 4 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 2 Dawn; 4 Scoobies knocked out: Buffy on the operating table Buffy: 18 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 12 Will: 8 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;3 Dawn; 2 Tara; 1 Kills: DarkWillow kills Warren Buffy: 107 vamps, 56 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god. Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn. Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 8 vamps and 4 demons Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp Scoobies go evil: Willow and how! I almost think that what's more disturbing is the way DarkWillow just leaves Tara's corpse lying there on the floor soaked in her blood, compare that with Dawn who stays with the body of the girl she loves because she doesn't want her to be alone. Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Buffy; 1 Alternate scoobies: DarkWillow Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 4 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Anya; 2 Recurring characters killed: 12 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara Sunnydale deaths; 94 Total number of scoobies: 2- by the end of this ep Willow's well and truly gone, Dawn still not fully part of the team, sent to hide with Clem, only Xander and Buffy remain. The scoobies at their fewest since 'Welcome to the Hellmouth'. Xander, Buffy, Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula? Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Buffy; 1 Tara; 1 Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya Anya; 2 Spike and Xander Spike; good or bad? Spike in Africa where the demon says that he's been 'castrated', a vamps ability to kill once again compared to sexuality. Dawn in peril; 10 from Willow! Dawn the bashful virgin; 9 What the fanficcers thought; One called 'Deserving' that always sticks in my mind is where Season 7 Willow is tortured by nightly visits from Warren's ghost who cuts her flesh. In the follow up story she eventually realises that it's not Warren at all but her guilt manifesting itself magically. She forgives Warren and forgives herself, dreaming only of the happiness she knew with Tara from then on. Another good one is that Glory has brainsucked Faith so in the follow up Willow brainsucks Warren before she kills him and uses his mental energy to cure Faith, restoring our favourite dark haired Slayer's sanity once more. And a lovely one where Tara's ghost visits Dawn, As Dawn Lay Snuggled in her Bed Questions and observations; Interesting philosophical debate between Xander and Buffy, Xander wonders if Willow is justified in going all Punisher, Buffy says she can't be (prehaps because of what happened to Faith in Bad Girls or her in Dead Things?). Andrew is a fan of Mathew Broderick who of course starred with Michelle Tractenberg in Inspector Gadget. The cave paintings on the wall in Africa depict a man tied up and flayed alive and with his mouth sewn up just like Warren. Despite it all your heart still stops when you think Warren has killed Willow with the axe. Here's a question, presuming this is in real time how did Spike get to Africa so fast? Spoiler In Angel he remarks he's never been on a plane before? Marks out of 10; 8/10 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/
wendyg November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 Well, we know vampires can't fly because in S2 Angel said so: said you can't control the timezones you go through and the risk of daylight/sun. Hence he was going to go by ship. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4799508
lembergwatcher November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 (edited) It seems like those writing giants from Joss' team tried to persuade us Tara was the only one left to live for in Willow's case, the only true love and the only who was always there for our beloved Wicca. That it was totally justified for Willow to go on a rampage Spoiler and almost kill all her friends and every living thing, 'cause Tara's death meant she got nothing to lose at all. Making Willow of all people the season's "Big Bad" - one of the worst decisions IMO. I guess Willow has never been so un-Willow-y... Then again if Warren deserved such a horrible death for killing two women, what kind of brutal torture should have been in store for Anya and Spike considering their extensive body counts? Yeah the guy was a rat bastard, but hardly the series "worst villain" as many in the fandom like to claim. Edited November 1, 2018 by lembergwatcher Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4799909
Jack Shaftoe November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 Willow is a murderer and Buffy misses her rapist. Just the show I have always wanted. "I need Spike to protect Dawn from Warren" is up there with the dumbest contrivances in the series. Exactly what interest does Warren have in Dawn and more to the point what can Spike do to stop him anyway? Quote Then again if Warren deserved such a horrible death for killing two women, what kind of brutal torture should have been in store for Anya and Spike considering their extensive body counts? Yeah the guy was a rat bastard, but hardly the series "worst villain" as many in the fandom like to claim. Yes, Warren is a small fry compared to Spike and Anya. I have seen people who ship Spuffy and/or Xanya but claim Warren repelled them so much that even the news that Adam Busch dated Amber Benson for a while was kind of hard to accept at first, let alone shipping Warren with any of the Scoobies. To me that is rather hypocritical. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4800014
Halting Hex November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 (edited) Quoting myself, from memory: "Buffy misses her rapist and pouts when she finds he's left town. Willow is a murderer. Just the show I always wanted." 5th-worst episode of the series. 0/10, easily.* (Not only is it gross-beyond-gross that Buffy wants to take her 15-year-old virgin sister to her rapist's place for "safekeeping", not only is it idiotic because Warren has Spike's crypt under video surveillance and Buffy knows this, but even if Warren were after Dawn [he is in fact not considering this at all], what could Spike do about it? Warren is human. Spike has a chip. Dawn would be more help protecting Spike in this scenario than vice versa. Which may be the point. Gotta keep those cheekbones safe. And if Dawn ends up in harm's way, well, them's the breaks, sis. At least if you get maimed, it'll be in a "good" cause, right?) ETA: Hey, Jack remembered my line! (See above) I'm internet-famous! Now I can die happy. :) Edited November 1, 2018 by Halting Hex Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4800022
Halting Hex November 1, 2018 Share November 1, 2018 Can Spike, in fact, rape Dawn? We don't know, he's never tried. Remember that Dawn is not in fact human, but a big ball of green energy, so the chip might not work on her. Yes, Dawn claimed in Bargaining, Part 1 that she was no longer the Key, but that was unsupported and more than a little self-serving. Given that being the Key got her pursued by leprous hobbits and nearly thrown off of a tower, it's understandable that she'd want to disavow it, I'd say. So if I were Buffy, I'd think twice about how "safe" Dawn would be with him, especially as he might be carrying a grudge about that whole "Buffy beat me to shit on her bathroom floor and now she's treating me as if we never had anything" issue. But JMO. And poor Willow, missing Tara so much! Gee, it's too bad she doesn't know a spell to reverse time (as mentioned in All the Way), huh? Or that there isn't a wish-granting demon around, whom Willow could put under her mind-control, huh? Sheesh. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4800042
Joe Hellandback November 2, 2018 Author Share November 2, 2018 18 hours ago, lembergwatcher said: It seems like those writing giants from Joss' team tried to persuade us Tara was the only one left to live for in Willow's case, the only true love and the only who was always there for our beloved Wicca. That it was totally justified for Willow to go on a rampage Hide contents and almost kill all her friends and every living thing, 'cause Tara's death meant she got nothing to lose at all. Making Willow of all people the season's "Big Bad" - one of the worst decisions IMO. I guess Willow has never been so un-Willow-y... Then again if Warren deserved such a horrible death for killing two women, what kind of brutal torture should have been in store for Anya and Spike considering their extensive body counts? Yeah the guy was a rat bastard, but hardly the series "worst villain" as many in the fandom like to claim. I don't think it was just Tara, Xander, Dawn, Oz or Buffy would have produced a similar reaction. If Anya and Spike had been killing now Buffy would have killed them. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4802177
lembergwatcher November 2, 2018 Share November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: If Anya and Spike had been killing now Buffy would have killed them. Sorry. Spoiler But the following season's eps Selfless and Sleeper prove otherwise. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4802229
Jack Shaftoe November 2, 2018 Share November 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said: I don't think it was just Tara, Xander, Dawn, Oz or Buffy would have produced a similar reaction. Willow's reaction to Buffy's death in The Gift wasn't to go on a homicidal rampage. Quote If Anya and Spike had been killing now Buffy would have killed them. So thousands of murders in the past or attempts to murder that come very close to succeeding (or successful attempt of kidnapping for that matter) in the here and now are okay somehow? That Buffy, some "Slayer". And yes, Spoiler Season seven shows very clearly that even killing in the here and now isn't bad enough for Buffy to live up to her job description. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4802325
Joe Hellandback November 5, 2018 Author Share November 5, 2018 On 02/11/2018 at 11:07 AM, lembergwatcher said: Sorry. Hide contents But the following season's eps Selfless and Sleeper prove otherwise. Unfair Spoiler Buffy does go to kill Anya in Selfless and Spike is being controlled in Sleeper. On 02/11/2018 at 12:12 PM, Jack Shaftoe said: Willow's reaction to Buffy's death in The Gift wasn't to go on a homicidal rampage. So thousands of murders in the past or attempts to murder that come very close to succeeding (or successful attempt of kidnapping for that matter) in the here and now are okay somehow? That Buffy, some "Slayer". And yes, Reveal hidden contents Season seven shows very clearly that even killing in the here and now isn't bad enough for Buffy to live up to her job description. Who would she have gone on a rampage against? She does go psycho on Glory when she brainsucks Tara? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4809733
lembergwatcher November 5, 2018 Share November 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said: Who would she have gone on a rampage against? Random strangers. Spoiler The way she tried to wipe out every living thing (we talk about the people, 99,99% of whom had absolutely nothing to do with Tara's death) in Grave. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-4809751
lembergwatcher February 15, 2020 Share February 15, 2020 (edited) On 11/1/2018 at 5:59 PM, Halting Hex said: Warren has Spike's crypt under video surveillance In this case the Trio should've kept their collection of entertaining Spuffy "home videos" somewhere... Edited February 15, 2020 by lembergwatcher Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-5939282
Halting Hex February 16, 2020 Share February 16, 2020 15 hours ago, lembergwatcher said: In this case the Trio should've kept their collection of entertaining Spuffy "home videos" somewhere... If Warren never figured out a way to make $$$ off of "incredibly realistic sexbots", I'm not terribly sanguine about his ability to market a Buffy, the Vampires Lay Her porn series. Some people have a knack for finance…and some should never have left Dutton. And so it goes. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-5940226
Joe Hellandback February 16, 2020 Author Share February 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Halting Hex said: If Warren never figured out a way to make $$$ off of "incredibly realistic sexbots", I'm not terribly sanguine about his ability to market a Buffy, the Vampires Lay Her porn series. Some people have a knack for finance…and some should never have left Dutton. And so it goes. Exactly what we all thought watching WW The Deadly Toys. God, Lynda is still the most stunning woman EVER! And I've met CC and Hudson Leick. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/75520-s06e20-villains/#findComment-5940838
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.