Rubik's Cube: Solving The Puzzle That Is A Show

[gingerella]

I wanted to pull my theory from two years ago, over here before it goes POOF in the night.  I just re-read it, and for me, it still stands today, perhaps even more so with what has transpired between June 2012, when I wrote this, and today. I am pulling this theory into its own easy-to-find thread in case anyone cares to track the ongoing alignments of the various key elements of A Show (and because I forgot my own defined elements the other day, duh!).

A Show as A Rubik's Cube



 

1. Black Squares - Magic:

If we look at the Magic elements as black squares, then we're starting to line those up with the spitballs that correlate with why Magic is suddenly coming back - the whole 'magic begets magic, and magic lost/not believed in/not practiced is magic lost' theory.

 



2. Green Squares - Environmental Climate Changes:

If we look at the environmental/climate change elements as green squares, then they're starting to line up with our spitballs that perhaps a natural climate change is bringing a rare but inevitable ice age type situation. This would make sense that in perhaps several lifetimes the population would not have seen such a thing, and only know about it from handed down story telling since climate change and ice ages took hundreds if not thousands of years to occur in our actual history. This also would tie in with the red comet seen streaking across the skies at the beginning of S2.  Something akin to Haley's Comet would only be seen extremely rarely and not for eons in between, so again, it harkens to extreme climate change/ice age approaching.  So as we saw Nan telling the scary story about WWs riding on giant white spiders, it could have been reality such a long time ago, that it's become a story that people have not actually experienced for a thousand years or more simply because all the elements were not in the right places for WWs to be able to connect with the rest of the North and grow their armies as large as they appear to be doing time around.  Perhaps other previous long Winters were not as harsh or all these elements were not in place so the WWs weren't able to march South as they had a thousand years earlier.

 

3. Red Squares - Human Nature:

If we take human nature and assign it to red squares, we could theorize that this element was man's innate desire to conquer and thus to do battle against each other, becoming preoccupied with destroying that which he wants but cannot have, etc.  This is the battle for the Iron Throne right now, as well as other battles we're seeing such as Balon's desire for vengeance, Ducksauce wanting more power, the Spice Merchant not wanting to give up more power, etc.  And in this element of A Show, we see how man can become consumed with war, to the point that he is oblivious to Nature and what is going in right under his nose with regard to climate change/ice age coming down the road (not noticing the comet or what it means, etc.).  The Northerners are far more connected to Nature via their religion and the fact that they live so far North, so their mythology and history is more directly tied to Winter when it does come, didn't someone up North take notice of that comet or am I misremembering?  Those living in KL and maybe the Free Cities, etc. might not take the "stories" of Winter Is Coming that seriously since they are farther from the actual Ground Zero area of the North.  To them, perhaps none of their kin for several generations have ever experienced these things so it's all been chalked up to silly stories those Northerners like to tell.

 

4. Blue Squares - Religion:

If we take religion and assign it to blue squares, we see many different religions being bandied about this season, but we're not sure if several of them are actually one and the same, just given different names by different cultures (sort of like all the types of Christianity that exist in the world) so it's still not clear how they are or are not lining up.  Again, we know that the Northerners are more intrinsically tied to Nature, not only because they live in a very wild environment as compared to the cities of Westeros and beyond...but they also worship amongst trees that are sacred to them.  So their religion is the most deeply tied to Nature of all the religions we've seen so far, so perhaps this allows, helps them to weather Winter when it finally comes?

 

Are there other main elements of A Show that I'm missing?  I know personal relationships are a big issue in A Story, but I'm not sure if it's an element per se, or a common, cross-cutting thread woven in and out of the main elements above.

 

This is just my theory du jour, a rather huge spitball that I've been choking on, so I'll let it THWACK! on the Wall here and see if it sticks or slides slowly to the ground.  So to sum up, each of the above major elements is showing us several smaller pieces that I'm thinking of as individual squares on a Rubik's Cube.  And as we line up each batch of elements, we start getting a clearer idea of what A Story is all about and where it might be going.  There are still outstanding pieces in each element but I think it could be a good guide for helping us Unspoiled Spitballers to see where this is all headed...or not!

12 April 2014, 04:42 AM     Completely Unspoiled Speculation Thread in The Unsullied Habitat

written by Pallas

Your brilliant A Show as A Cube speculation, gingerella, is a work of art.  It has the pull of great art; it seems to enter us from everywhere all at once, and tells us what we didn't know we knew.  It's compelling and propulsive.  It works like the opening credits, in that respect: Look at this; this is it. That spec of yours encapsulated everything our thread had been working out about what A Show has on its mind, and has informed my experience of it ever since.

 

Thinking about A Show as Cube: all Rubik's Cubes share the same perfect pattern, yes?  You can start the solution from different angles but the finished cube is identical?  The saga had one creator, one founding genius who then tossed his invention to the adapters saying, "Here ya go.  Knock yourselves out, boys."  And because the saga is a remarkably wrought Rubik's Cube of independent yet interlocking dynamics, it holds together.  The adapters can work on it this way or that, focus in for a time on this face or another, but the thing itself has an inevitability made of integrity. In our weird way -- as we graze and ruminate in our habitat -- we're the proof of that.

 

"People will surprise you," has to be one of Martin's subthemes. And not just the traditional redemption postulates like Jaime, those who snark but ache and yearn.  People like Melisandre, who proved to me, anyway, that she really does see something in the fire when she reversed her self like that about the War, and seemingly alone of everyone with any authority in the Seven Kingdoms, took Aemon's warning seriously.  Took it seriously enough to contradict Stannis flatly, without any fluffing, and insist that he spare Daavos and head north. Her reason for doing it may still be on the Red side of the Cube, rather than the Green -- this is the real route to Stannis's ascention, rather than, this is only route to the world's survival -- but still.  And people like Jon Snow, rising in the ranks of Team Green.  Jon seems to be working his way up to a "Fight together or die alone" moment as he stands between the Wildlings and the Watch.  And in Jon's case, he is influenced not by his allegiance to a god or prophecy, but by what he has seen and suffered since he left Winterfell.

 

The Lannisters?  No surprise there: Team Red all the way, and it will be their downfall. Having defeated all comers -- for the most part, through the wet work of others --- their blood is still up and they now have no one left to turn on but themselves.  Well, Jaime is now the free lance, the one who secretly always wanted to play for Blue.  All he wants is someone who wants his service.  Unlike Tyrion, the political animal.  If Cersei had been Shae -- Cersei, the Funny Queen! -- and urged Jaime to quit King's Landing and go anywhere else with her, Jaime would have done it in a heartbeat.  This doesn't make him better than Tyrion; Jaime has far more options elsewhere, and far fewer options in the capital. But it is what marked him for the redemption train in my mind, early on, and for a noble death somewhere further down the line.

Edited May 20, 2014 by gingerella

[stillshimpy]

Okay, gingerella, we will clearly have ye olde Red action tonight.  Everything about Oberyn's quest to avenge his sister is about human impulse and human nature, but it also contains the best and the worst types of emotions and impulses.  Oberyn's desire to murder the Mountain (while completely understandable and something I full freaking support) is about a common human failing: mistaking revenge for justice.  

 

Cersei is absolutely engaging in the same thing, only Oberyn's intent seems more honorable, whereas Cersei is content to frame Tyrion to bring about "justice" and she may not even truly believe Tyrion killed Joffrey, but she'd likely love to kill him just to put paid to the age old debt of what she thinks Tyrion is truly guilty of doing: being the cause of her mother's death.  

 

The thing with a Rubik's cube is that there is always a color that is opposite of the color you are trying to maneuver into place.  From what I can tell, if that were to be a part of your cube?  Then magic (or black) would be on the opposite sides of your red squares, because whenever the human failings have gone done in the form of "Revenge!"  magic has also been afoot in the big actions.  Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister's revenge and traitorous deception went hand-in-hand with Stannis's blood sacrifice.  

 

Then also, magic and revenge have actually shared time onscreen.  Varys sorcerer in a box.  For his justice, Varys is also choosing revenge and it was absolutely a part of magic.  

 

So whereas the show can't possibly be operating under the Rubik's cube theory, we do have a "Revenge (human failing) and Magic" very often share space on this show.  Also, Stannis killing Renly.  

 

It will be interesting to see what Littlefinger's murder of Lyssa (human failing alert) will yield too.  

 

Should there be big happenings in Magic city with all the Revenge-Anger-Hatred-Jealousy-Grasping-Deception that is in the air? 

[stillshimpy]

Ah jeez, so much for that.  I wish I could go back in time and tell my former self not to be so naive! Oh those days of yester...day.  

[gingerella]

Black Squares update:

In anticipation of the season finale, I will say that SO4 has been very light on the magic element. Yes, we saw the baby/WW makers, and a couple of dragon sightings, and the beach bonfire burnings, so we know magic is still simmering around the kingdoms, but it wasn't front and center this season. It was like, "yeah, magic is still a'brewin' in the kingdoms...not at a roiling boil yet though...stay tuned..."

 

Green Squares update:

The environmental/climate change wheels are turning and this season was the first where we've seen actual snow South of the Wall, even at The Eyrie, so Winter if finally fucking Coming, woohoo!  Though I do find it odd that we haven't heard people talking about the snow. If Winter has not Come in centuries, as it has been alluded to, then nobody has seen snow in their lifetime before South of the Wall, right? So how is it we've not heard at least one convo about "whoa, holy shitballs! What is this white flake falling from the sky?! Lo, it is called Snow...It is known..."  You'd think at least one person would have commented on it in A Show, right?  The fact that there was enough of it to make a snow castle at the Eyrie means it's snowing a fucking lot, folks. It always felt that until now, the only people who'd seen even frost were the Northerners who'd ventured North of the Wall.

 

Red Squares update:

The wheel that has turned the most this season is the red wheel of human nature. That one is always, all ways cranking ever-forward, isn't it? It's almost the grease that oils the rest of the wheels on A Story. Without human nature intervening, the climate wouldn't matter much, nor would magic since humans and other beings make magic happen, it doesn't just happen externally to human/being interaction. People and things fan the embers of magic so human nature is very entwined with that element.

 

Blue Squares update:

The religion wheels have turned very slowwwly this season, with little significant mention other than the Big Beach Bonfire Burning of Season 4 in honor of the LoL, which ironically has to happen under cover of darkness, go figure the irony in that! Yes, we know Bran is moving towards the North and seems to be guided by the holy Weir trees of the Northern people, and we hear people saying "the Seven Gods" and reciting the 7 gods or whatever they were in the Joffs wedding scene (at least I think they did), but we don't see a huge and obvious push on religion in this season. I suspect it is brewing for a comeback next year but who knows...In the first few seasons, there were the three distinct religions: The Old Gods, The New Gods, and the Lord of Light. But right now, we sort of have vague mention of them but no front and center focus on them. I suspect that whatever Stannis' storyline is, we will see more LoL coming into play there, and possibly clashing with the Old and New Gods of Westeros.

 

Thoughts?

Edited June 11, 2014 by gingerella

[gingerella]

Black Squares S5 prediction:

So, like, magic! Yeah, I have a feeling that since last seasons we were on Magic Lite watch, that this season magic makes a hearty come back. So far, from what I remember, we have teen age mutant ninja dragons in lock up, but their big badass brother is MIA last we saw yes?  So where is the lil bugger and if he's flying around scorching earth and killing for food, I'm sure someone will have seen him and will be gossiping about him...and we all know how interested Varys has always been in the Targ's and their dragons, though I cant remember if Varys knows yet about the teenage dragons.   

 

What else? Oh, the Very Best Part! We last saw Arya using her coin from A Man, to gain passage to Braavos.  Bravo to Braavos, that's what I say!  I cannot wait to see what's in store for Arya and since she essentially used a coin to get her to Braavos and thus, closer to assassin ville, I can only hope, nee squee, that A Show will reconnect us with A Man very, very soon!

 

Then there is Mel, who is forever hocuspocusing her way into Stannis's pants, so I'm sure she has some fire burning and leaching and weirdo sexing up to do this season, she's always up to no good, that one, though I don't really have that much interest in her story and would not be sad if she was a goner in the S5 death pool this year.

 

Oh, and there is that baby alter that we saw, I cant remember if it was S3 or S4, but I'm guessing we'll see something around that weird stuff too. Though it's not that compelling to me for whatever reason.

 

Green Squares S5 predictions:

So green squares are environmental and well, we finally saw snow last season, so I'm expecting more snow, and more ice and more snow and ice reaching farther South too, though it is not clear if Winter actually ever reaches Kings Landing, it is not known...I am also unclear as to whether or not Winter hits other places like wherever Dani is, or if it's only an issue up North near the Wall.  It seems like not many folks in KL mutter "Winter is Coming" or am I misremembering that?  It would be interesting if there was some inverted heat-related opposing force that occurs when Winter finally fucking comes. Like wild fires across the Dothraki plains (not that they are even a part of this story anymore) or wherever else we are seeing pieces of this story take place outside of Westeros, like where the Free People live, etc. anywhere where one has to take a boat to, etc.  Maybe it's like an El Nino, where there are other environmental issues that occur, even flooding from over snow/rain? Just guessing aloud on this as we've not seen anything to give us a hint that this will happen.

 

Red Squares S5 predictions:

Red is human nature, and I think we will see a lot of turmoil continue around the Lannisters, particularly Cersei who is still hell bent on revenge for the death of her disgusting off spring. But what will become of Tyrion and Varys, both spirited away on a ship to where? Will we continue to see Varys as the arbiter of what is right, with a whiff of "maybe he isn't a good guy after all", or will he do the right thing for Kingdom and Mankind, as he has mentioned in the past?  And what will this passage to a new land bring for Tyrion? We've seen with the attempted assassination by wine of Dani, that spies and little birds are everywhere, so it is likely possible for an enraged and out of control Cersei to have a bounty out for Tyrion's head, though I still hold hope that he makes if far in A Story because I like him very much. I would like to see Tyrion, Arya, Bran and Dani as last (wo)men standing I think. They are fair minded in a world of immeasurable cray cray.

 

I just remembered that Dani sent away her right hand dude what will happen to him now (god I forget names easily!)? Will human nature push him to really undermine her crusade, or will he be supporting her behind the scenes somewhere? And what will become of Stannis's daughter? Didn't we see her taken with him on some ship last we saw them? Didn't they all pack up and leave the Rock for someplace else? Why bring a child along on such a voyage? Unless it's for another sacrifice?

 

Blue Squares S5 predictions:

And what of Blue...religion? We have seen religion toppled by Dani pretty much every place she goes to. Idolatry or whatever you want to call it, is toppled when she rides into a kingdom.

 

And what about Bran and company? Are they still hiding out with Root Dude at the bottom of that tree? And where is Rickon and his minder? Will we ever get resolution on the remaining direwolves? A Viewer wants to know!  It has always felt to me as if Bran is being guided by both magic AND religion, or a spiritual other worldly divine force if you will. Like he is a seer, and thus has some cosmic connection to something that is more spiritual in nature, and though it looks like magic, might be more religious based in the end.

 

Mel straddles - pun intended, sorry it was too easy not to - both magic and religion, but I feel her religion is more of a fire and brimstone "for show" religion to justify a means to an end, whereas Bran' religion is the "real thing". Powerful on its own because it's for good and not evil purposes. Though we don't know what purpose it serves yet, although one would assume it relates to trying to save mankind at this point. I think we will continue to see Bran work with The Old Gods, the Weirwood trees, etc., while the people of KL continue living in the land of the New Gods, which seems more like a debauched version of religion right now.  And of course we still don't know if Mel's Lord of Light is Old or New or Magic or Bullshit. If Stannis ever does make it to KL or anywhere else that is not on a ship, perhaps Mel will force others to follow her LoL BS, but I think it will be short lived and at some point, if/when Mel bites it, Stannis will realize all her LoL stuff was utter nonsense.

 

That's all I can think of right now...what are your Unsullied predictions?

[Llywela]

And what will become of Stannis's daughter? Didn't we see her taken with him on some ship last we saw them? Didn't they all pack up and leave the Rock for someplace else? Why bring a child along on such a voyage? Unless it's for another sacrifice?

 If Stannis ever does make it to KL or anywhere else that is not on a ship, perhaps Mel will force others to follow her LoL BS, but I think it will be short lived and at some point, if/when Mel bites it, Stannis will realize all her LoL stuff was utter nonsense.

Just to observe that Stannis wasn't heading for King's Landing and we saw him and his entourage reach their destination - they went north to Castle Black and The Wall, just in time to capture what's-his-name king of the wildlings and reinforce Jon's defence against the icy cold things that go bump in the night. I think that's where we left them, anyway.

 

Also, yay for S5 Rubik's predictions!

Edited March 11, 2015 by Llywela

[Anothermi]

WhiteStumbler's recent thread creation all about White Walkers got me thinking about Gingerella's Rubik's Cube Theorum. Mostly about the Green Squares - Environmental Climate Change, but it's still in the incubation stage. I'll post when I've got a better handle on it. 

 

But I've got a few brief observations on Rubik's Cube movements so far this Season:

 

Blue Squares: Religion

 

The Seven and even the Old Gods haven't been very active, but the Sparrows have kicked the Seven into action this Season. 

Also, Jaquen's God(s) have also been given a bit more exposure. The Red God he spoke of are shown to be just one of many that he serves, so he/they are not just allied with Melisandre's crew. Syrio's "God of Death" seems a more accurate description of who the House of Black and White serve. (That house, at this point, still appears a bit Grey to me.) ;-)

 

Seems to me there is a lot of overlap of these squares and the Red Squares - especially with the Sparrows. 

 

Black Squares: Magic

 

We learned a bit more about Grey Scale this season. I'm wondering if it will figure in this square's movement. Too soon to tell, but what with the references to "The Doom of Valyria" and the Greyscale afflictees living there, this seems to have potential for future plot lines. 

 

Also, we've been given a crumb of what could be Magic (or Religion, or both) with Old Root Dude and the Children of the Forest. At least as of S05E08. We'll need more to place them more accurately. 

 

Red Squares: Human Nature

 

Gingerella reprised this Pallas post from last year: (portion on Red Squares)

The Lannisters?  No surprise there: Team Red all the way, and it will be their downfall. Having defeated all comers -- for the most part, through the wet work of others --- their blood is still up and they now have no one left to turn on but themselves.  Well, Jaime is now the free lance, the one who secretly always wanted to play for Blue.  All he wants is someone who wants his service.  Unlike Tyrion, the political animal.  If Cersei had been Shae -- Cersei, the Funny Queen! -- and urged Jaime to quit King's Landing and go anywhere else with her, Jaime would have done it in a heartbeat.  This doesn't make him better than Tyrion; Jaime has far more options elsewhere, and far fewer options in the capital. But it is what marked him for the redemption train in my mind, early on, and for a noble death somewhere further down the line.

 

 

Check! to all the bolded items. I don't have much more to add except Bravo! Well placed spitballs that were proven true last season and this. 

[Pallas]

Thank you, anothermi!   I wish I could pretend that I foresaw either Kevan Lannister's appearance and haughty leave-taking, or Lancel Lannister's finding religion and turning on Cersei, but I most surely did not.  At any rate, though, the general climate of Lannisters turning on each other is the prevailing wind.  Even Myrcella on Jaime.  

 

And thinking of the Lannister blood-letting, I did love the faintly hollow, truly pained note in Tyrion's bravado as he told Dany that he was the greatest Lannister-killer of them all.  Perfectly gauged (by Dinklage) so that she might have missed it, but we did not.  Well done.

 

The Red God he spoke of are shown to be just one of many that he serves, so he/they are not just allied with Melisandre's crew. Syrio's "God of Death" seems a more accurate description of who the House of Black and White serve. (That house, at this point, still appears a bit Grey to me.) ;-)

 

Yes: and now that I think of it, Jaqen's God of Many Faces (one god who containeth multitudes, it seems) and the Red God revered by Melisandre and the Brothers Without Screentime, may represent the first religions on this world that are monotheistic.  Though we don't know if the Drowned God or the Great Stallion are loners, or much of anything about any other deities beyond the Seven and the Old.  

 

Green:  You know, we've heard of Winter's finally arriving, and Stannis's army already trapped in drifts.  But we haven't really seen too much that's fearsome.  While Hardhome does face the sea and so would be more temperate, still: it seemed no more snowbound than Winterfell, much farther south.  And this summer of Bran's birth was said to have been one of the longest on record.  I wonder if the, well, glacial advance of Winter in this story is no accident, or narrative error.  What if -- for reasons other than CO pollution -- this world too is warming up?

[Anothermi]

Bran: Is it true he saw the White Walkers?

Ned: The White Walkers have been gone for thousands of years.

 

Jon: We've guarded the kingdoms for 8,000 years.

 

Old Nan: (To Bran) Oh, my sweet summer child, what do you know about fear? Fear is for the winter, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides for years and children are born and live and die all in darkness. That is the time for fear, my little lord, when the White Walkers move through the woods. Thousands of years ago there came a night that lasted a generation. Kings froze to death in their castles, same as the shepherds in their huts. And women smothered their babies rather than see them starve, and wept and felt the tears freeze on their cheeks. So is this the sort of story that you like? In that darkness, the White Walkers came for the first time. They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders, big as hounds…

 

Sam: The White Walkers sleep beneath the ice for thousands of years. And when they wake up...

 

Sam: The Fist of the First Men! Think of how old this place is-- before the Targaryens defeated the Andals, before the Andals took Westeros from the First Men

 

Jon: Because when I told the Lord Commander, he already knew. Thousands of years ago, the First Men battled the White Walkers and defeated them. I want to fight for the side that fights for the living. Did I come to the right place?

 

So, based on info provided by Lord WhiteStumbler of Unsullied Habitat, here's my stab at...

Green Squares: Environmental Climate Change

 

For us, in so-called reality, winter comes because our planet's axis tilts a bit, and as we orbit our sun the northern tip and the southern tip alternate being closer or farther away from the sun. We have a fixed orbit so these things happen at regular intervals. The planet that Westeros is a part of seems to have an erratic orbit so it's not possible to predict when winter or summer will come - or how long they will last. It makes me wonder if this imaginary planet wobbles on it's axis and that causes the lack of regular seasons. Probably not even a concern to the writer. I doubt if orbits play a part in this story, but that's just an observation.  

 

The bolded items above all point to how long it's been since the WhiteWalkers were last a menace. Jon even gave a number - 8000 years that the Nights Watch have been on guard.

There was no Wall.

There were no Targaryens.

There weren't even any Andals!

Just the 1st Men. No wonder nobody believes the stories anymore.

 

Those bolded items also point to some WWs retreating to under the ice after being defeated. At first I pictured this as "frozen in ice" but it could be they retreated to their Ice Fortress of Solitude and went into stasis. Metaphorically they went underground - where demons historically reside, so WS's spec could still apply. 

 

My thoughts re: Green Rubik's Cube Squares were that both WW and zombonies became active mainly at dusk or in the dark. That would have explained the need for a never-ending darkness of winter (Old Nan's description) - like what happens in the most northern communities here on our earth. It would give them the time they needed to be active and carry out assaults without needing to pause while daylight passed. It would, however, restrict their range a bit as they got farther south because there would be periods of daylight. It also would mean that there would be many areas of the planet that would be immune from WW attacks. Dorne being mentioned as one in the Osha dialog (which I didn't bring over, oops) 

 

Unfortunately, the assault on HardHome kind of messes with that premiss because it appeared to be daytime. Maybe it could pass for dusk but that would really be pushing it IMHO. 

 

But since I'm here with all the thought provoking dialog quoted above with one addition below, I'm going on to some non-Rubik's related thought. Hope this is OK. 

Stannis: I know what it is. We have it in Dragonstone. Why would obsidian kill a Walker?

Sam: I don't know. I've been going through all the old manuscripts hoping to find something, and all I've learned is that the Children of the Forest used to hunt with dragonglass.

 

The 1st Men defeated the WW and their army of the dead more than 8000 years ago. They learned they could kill WWs with obsidian. Where did it come from? Were there dragons around back then? Does dragonglass kill dragons as well, or are they needed to make it? (Stannis knew of obsidian from his home at DragonStone.) The Children of the Forest used dragonglass for hunting. This points to a dragon connection to the WWs and/or the 1st Men before the Targs flew over on theirs. 

 

Also, Westeros was 1st inhabited by... the 1st Men (doubt they called themselves that but whatever);

They defeated the WhiteWalkers only to be defeated later by the Andals. 

Then the Targs came and conquered everyone (except the Dornish who must have brokered a peace deal). 

Both the FreeFolk and the Northerners of Westeros claim to be descendants of the 1st Men, but neither of them retained stories of how their ancestors defeated the WhiteWalkers, just ones about how scary it was. Why? Sam, at least, has found some written references, but it seems strange that a battle of that magnitude would not have lived on in folk tales. 

 

Was it the 1st Men who put up the wall? As we have speculated before, if it was erected with magic it could possibly have been the 1st Men - with some outside help (Children of the Forest?), but that doesn't explain why some of them would have been left on the wrong side to become the FreeFolk. It seems more likely the Andals built it. They may have conquered an exhausted and depleted population of 1st Men early enough to know about and believe in WWs. Perhaps they were like the Romans come to Britain. They could have forced the FreeFolk to build the Wall and would think nothing of leaving some of the "workers" stranded on the other side to fend for themselves. 

 

Still so many questions on this front. 

 

 

 

 

[gingerella]

Anothermi, related to our conco on S7E4, about when we started talking about the magic, or various forms thereof, I note above that I first drafted the original Rubik's Cube theory in 2012, so Season 2? I cannot remember, though I'm sure you or WS or Llywela will, if we experienced anything magical in S1 other than the original woods WW scene - with the bodies in a circle of sorts and the creepy dead girl pinned to the tree, with the blue eyes...wasn't that the first time we all GASPED and thought, WHATTHEFUCKWASTHAT?!? But I dont remember any other magic that season, and S2 probably brought enough more weirdness - though I cannot remember what specifically - that made me assign an entire side of the Rubik's Cube to Magic...

[Anothermi]

Thanks for sussing that out, Ging. 2012 WAS when Season 2 aired.

In Season One, as far as magic goes, I remember what you already pointed out, the appearance of a White Walker and the ritualistic body part design. In a later episode we meet a wight (zomboni) with blue eyes who tries to kill Commander Mormont. Sam starts to show off his esoteric knowledge about burning the dead  (but cryptically of course).

Aside from learning that magical beings existed in the past from Old Nan and that conversation between Bran and Maester Luwin that brought us over here, I don't remember any other magic in Westeros until we met Melissandre and Stannis (the Lobster) at the end of Season 1.

However, there was a healer from the Lamb People who Dany "rescued" and who went on to use some kind of black magic to kill Drogo.

Dany, herself, gave signs of a magical power with her failure to be harmed by extreme heat.

That's all I can remember from Season One.

In Season Two: Once there were Dragons, and Melissandre creating SBB (smoke baby baratheon) the Pandora's box of magic was open but only leaking out. Jaqen H'gar added a bit more - especially in the last episode - but we'd already heard about his kind during the famous bathtub sexposition scene.

[gingerella]

Oh, I would love to go season by season with what magic we learned about, nudge nudge hint hint...

[Anothermi]

Not while I still have a numb butt from the last post I did just for you in Spoils of War!

:-D      :-p

Edited August 10, 2017 by Anothermi

[gingerella]

Let us re visit this hypothesis of A Show as a Rubik's Cube, shall we? Feel free to grab a pint of mead and a plate of Hot Pie's hot pies, this might take a while...

1. Black Squares - Magic:

Magic has been a thread that first began on A Show as an undercurrent, slowly moving from the ground, literally with the first season of seeing that ceremonial circle of dead body parts in the forest north of Winterfell), slowly moving upward into people (Melisandre) and out of people (Mel's birthing of Smoke Baby Baratheon, one of the weirdest and most ridiculous CGI attempts in A Show) and Dany birthing her Dragonettes, moving into the air with the Dragons growing up and taking flight. Then a combo of land/sea/air when we have the Night King himself and his ability to raise the dead into his zomboni/zompony army on land and then the penultimate raising Dany's dead dragon into an Dragoncicle - the latter sort of embodies all the aspects of Magic in A Show as the dragons were conceived/birthed by Dany, a human, on land, they grew up on land then took to the air when they grew up, and to date, one ends up falling from the sky and becoming reborn as a Dragboni, taking to the sky once more. Ahhhh, the Circle of Life *cue Lion King theme song*!

The question then is what will Magic do in S8, apart from wreaking havoc, or Reeking havoc as the case may be. Will Mel's premonitions become true? Will Jon Snow (Targaryen) become the long-prophesized King she has been waiting for? Will her Magic allow her to help the Living win the greatest battle of mankind? Or will evil Magic, a la the Night King, triumph over Good? Will Dany's dragon twins be able to kill their ice bro, or will they succumb to the Night King and the Walkers? Right now, Magic seems to reside in the North, there seems little evidence of it in King's Landing at the moment. No, Magic is roiling away at Winterfell and northward, and now that The Wall appears to have been breached, we have the mightiest of evil Magic spilling into the North. Which begs the question, what about the 'magic' that was put into the Wall? Why didn't it hold?

We have spitballed about three dragons with three Targs riding them: Dany, Jon, and Tyrion if he isn't really a Lannister at all and instead is a Targ (we spitballed about the latter at our old Castle Black, IIRC, and possibly here as well). We know now that one dragon is a dragoncicle, so that leaves two dragons needing riders - the obvious are Dany and Jon, but what if one of the three becomes a half dead like Benjen and manages to ride Drogon? Perhaps he could turn Drogon on the WWs, Army of the Dead, and the Night King? Or perhaps Dany can turn him back somehow? Or Mel can? I mean, it could happen...

And last but by no means least, WHO is the Night King and what the hell does he want? Does he just want to be loved? Does he want to destroy everything? It seems a bleak existence raising the dead and only having WW's to hang with. What's his deal? Is he the original man that the CotF turned into a WW all those thousands of years ago, or is he someone else entirely? Someone perhaps even know to A Viewer? Let's just say he is someone like Ned Stark. I know, I know, but hear me out. The knowing glance to Jon at Hardhome...what if he is someone known to Jon and others, and his goal is to wipe himself and the WWs out somehow, OR to make it to KL and wipe out Cersei and the Iron Throne once and for all and then wipe himself and the WWs out once and for all? That could maaaaaybe make sense given we have that premonition of the snow in the Iron Throne room...couldnt' it?  I keep going back to that end point and trying to think of what magic might have led to that scene...

2. Green Squares - Environmental Climate Changes:

Winter has finally arrived to the North in full force last season, that much is clear, though in KL it appears to be business as usual according to www.ravenweather.com/kingslanding. I remember at the start of S7, when Cersei is standing in that courtyard on a painted map of Westeros on the ground, there seemed to be leaves falling here and there a bit, but other than that, we've not seen significant climate change in KL. I can see how KL folks can think all this White Walker, Night King, zombonies stuff is hogwash because...proof? They never see it. Like, ever. And a raven can't exactly bring a Polaroid with them so, yanno, again...proof. Cersei isn't prepared for Winter, and while I wonder if Winter makes it to KL, it must because we saw that premonition so many seasons ago, of an Iron Throne under what looked like an open sky with snow falling onto the throne. So Winter must eventually make it South, but what happens to create that hole in the throne room? It seems like it's not environmental beyond the snow part.

And what about Summer is Coming? We never hear that uttered...I wonder if it is spoken about during the Dark Night? Does the Dark Night, and the subsequent retreat of the WWs, Night King, et al, occur naturally when Summer once again returns? Is this whole Story simple a slice of thousands of years of Natural weather cycles that bring with them certain Beings?

3. Red Squares - Human Nature:

Ah, good old human nature...this one's huge, and really feels like the foundation of A Show. Will human nature show in S8 that mankind and the living can triumph over evil magic? Or will we learn that mankind's foibles and internal squabbling help evil to overcome it and wipe it out?

To me, there are two major 'glances' that happened during S7 that infer huge things...We saw hints last season in the opening salvo of S7E01, when LF tries to direct Sansa to push back against Jon. He tries to sow seeds of doubt that SHE should lead the North, not Jon, a bastard. SHE is a 'true Stark', not Jon. Only LF can help her triumph over Jon. Thankfully we see Sansa's maturation as she clearly knows what LF is up to and we are given expressions of face that lead us to believe she will not fall for LF bullshit again. The era of Sansa being played is over. Over. O.V.E.R.  Girlfriend has learned life's hardest lessons and is now going to use what she's learned. We also have another "look", when Tyrion peeps Jon and Dany doing the nasty on the ship...What do we infer in that glance? Is he jealous of Jon? Is he worried that Dany will not be thinking with a clear head in the battle that is to come? It's sort of one or the other, isn't it? He's either jealous or worried about her keeping her head clear. Is there another reason? I can't see one. In either case, will he betray Dany out of jealously, and if so, what will that look like? And what consequences will that have on the Battle between the Living and the Dead? Will he somehow put Jon in harm's way to try and kill him? And if so, will Dany try to save Jon, perishing whilst doing so? A double blow to Tyrion as he and Jon would be a good team in re building whatever is left of their world, assuming there is anything left. Or could Dany's betrayal be something like this: when we next see our old friends, Dany & Jon have had a baby, and Tyrion realizes Jon's actually Dany's nephew and thus kills the baby because he knows Jon would be repulsed and tormented by that notion (Jon doesn't seem like the sort who would abide by the Targ incest clause) and he needs Jon and Dany to go into battle with clear heads, not fettered by parental worries. What will be the result of the Jon/Dany sexy times?

There are many more people to mention under this heading but these seem to be the top layer in terms of importance.

4. Blue Squares - Religion:

We know about the Old Gods (of the Weirwood trees/forests, sort of Druid like religion rooted in Nature, which isn't surprising in the North given how much Nature affects ones life there), and we know of the New Gods (The Seven: Mother, Father, Maiden, Crone, Smith, Warrior, Stranger) though I'm not sure if we know how the New Gods came to be. And we know there is a Lord of Light that Mel and the Bros without Banners follow, but we don't really understand what the LoL actually is, even after 7 freaking seasons! We also have other Idolic-based religions like the Dothraki worshipping The Great Stallion, and the Harpy statue atop the pyramid at Meereen (was that an idol? I can't remember, but I assume it was). Religion has been shown to be used as a power play, as it has been used in real human history, but it has also often been entwined and confused with magic in A Show...

Connection: Religion & Magic:

Which brings me to this - the connection between most Religion and Magic in A Show. If we think about the Old Gods, they are tied directly into the geography of where the battleground is now about to explode. Wasn't the Three-Eyed Raven (Rootdude) underneath a Weirwood tree? I can't remember. The Weirwood trees and Old Gods are part of the literal landscape that the Army of the Dead will be stomping through come next Sunday, and the Living are trying to hold their ground amidst Weirwood trees too. Do the trees require a certain amount of worship to activate some sort of magical protection or was it the CotF that made the Rootdude's Weirwood tree safe? I don't think we've seen any violence underneath a Weirwood tree yet, until the WWs showed up and came for The Raisin Bran gang. The CofF seemed to be able to stave off the WWs to some extent, but where are they now? They're far north of Winterfell and The Wall, yes? Will they come to the aid of Mankind and the Living or will they retreat even further into the Northern forests, hiding from the monsters they created? Are there even any CotF left at this point? We don't know, do we? We know they created the WWs, and thus the Army of the Dead, the Night King, etc. but can they, WILL they create something that will be able to kill off the very creatures they created to protect them from Man? Or will they be able to bestow Man and the Living with some sort of Magic that will enable them to triumph over the Army of the Dead?

Miscellaneous:

We have a lot of characters in play right now, but at the end of the day, the ones that matter most seem to be: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Cersei & Jamie. That spans 3 of the 4 main Houses in the opening GoTs credits: Targaryan (Dragon), Stark (Wolf), Lannister (Lion), and Barratheon (Stag). So far, the only House of the four that seems off the players mat is Barratheons because to our knowledge, only Gendry remains from that House, and his presence in S8 remains to be seen. If we look at the Lannisters, we know Cersei and Jaime are Lannisters, but I think we speculated over at our 'old Castle Black', that what if Tyrion was really a Targ and that  Joanna had an affair and that's why Tywin despised Tyrion so much. If that is true then there are three Targs in play, three Starks in play, and two Lannisters. And even if the Tyrion parentage theory is wrong, the Lannisters are still outnumbered because Jon has literally one foot in House Targ and one foot in House Stark. So he's sort of a uniting person of two of the four main Houses. I just cannot see him not surviving because of that aspect. I can, however, see Dany dying, because she only embodies one House, and thus isn't a uniting force in terms of family trees.

I am rambling and I need to stop because my hands hurt from typing and I could continue rambling until Sunday. There are more questions than answers or spitballs at this point, but I am wondering what A Show's final Rubik's Cube will look like at the end of this season. So all that is left to say to my Spitball Wall Unsullied Brethren is, thoughts?

ETA:

After thinking about this last night, I think that Religion and Magic will ultimately align across from one another since they appear to play off each other, whilst Human Nature and Environment will align across from each other (they have no choice if the former is true) because the weather (The Long Night of Winter, and the Long Summer) has such a profound effect on the inhabitants of Westeros. I wonder though, if Winter comes across the Narrow sea to the Dothraki, or to Essos, to Meereen, Pentos, Braavos, we don't know do we?

Edited April 10, 2019 by gingerella