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S12.E01: Kenya

ElectricBoogaloo

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biakbiak

biakbiak

Not surprising that this was a very traditional episode given that it was complete when he died. I do imagine that they added that footage of W. Kamau and Tony chatting about their lives later.

I did chuckle when the Masai warrior was filming the blood tapping with three different smart phones. 

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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It was nice to get one last regular episode complete with his voiceovers. No matter what the rest of them are like, I know they will probably be noticeably different. I had to laugh when Kamau said that when he moved to Oakland, he thought it would look like the scene he saw while he was in Kenya.

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Yeah No

Yeah No

I cried at the end.  I didn't see that coming.  Tony didn't look depressed to me in this episode.  Having suffered from clinical depression, I can usually spot the signs.  Perhaps this was before it got really bad?  It's still hard for me to fathom.

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Yeah No

Yeah No

12 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Many people are able to put on a front. Anthony’s friends and family have said that he was capable of doing that. 

Perhaps, but most people I know believe there was more to his suicide than we will ever know.  I am continually surprised by all the people in my life that mention this to me without hearing my opinion first.  I wasn't even aware that some of these people even knew who Tony was.  

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biakbiak

biakbiak

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps, but most people I know believe there was more to his suicide than we will ever know.  I am continually surprised by all the people in my life that mention this to me without hearing my opinion first.  I wasn't even aware that some of these people even knew who Tony was.  

Of course there is more to his suicide than we will ever know because he took that with him like most people who committed suicide. My point was that even friends and family stated that he often put up a good front even with those who knew he battled depression and often reached out to either for support or to support them with their similar struggles, so trying to look for clues when he is working and being filmed when others who actually knew him didn’t see it in his everyday life probably won’t be fruitful.

Edited by biakbiak
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Yeah No

Yeah No

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Of course there is more to his suicide than we will ever know because he took that with him like most people who committed suicide. My point was that even friends and family stated that he often put up a good front so trying to look for clues when he is working and being filmed when others who actually knew him didn’t see it in his everyday life probably won’t be fruitful.

Yes, I got your point but I don't think there's anything unfruitful about looking at him near the end of his life and looking for signs of what was to come.  I think it's only natural to do that, and a way to make sense out of something for closure.  Tony looked pretty rough in his final photos, like he wasn't getting enough sleep, etc.  I found his appearance to be shocking in fact, like he had aged years in a short amount of time.  I am wondering if I will see more signs in future episodes.

Perhaps it's just because I've never been suicidal, but I find it hard to believe that he could be so thankful for his life on screen in one moment, and buying shoes, then artwork only 2 weeks before his death and then take his life so soon afterward.  If he were seriously contemplating it at that point I don't believe he would say or do those things.  I've read that some people make the decision to kill themselves and do it shortly afterward so it can happen very quickly and so they wouldn't have much time to show any outward signs beforehand.  This may be why it seemed so out of the blue for everyone.  He may not have been putting on a happy act, he may have suddenly become that unhappy and killed himself soon afterward.  That squares with some of the theories I have heard from friends.

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biakbiak

biakbiak

(edited)
4 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

If he were seriously contemplating it at that point I don't believe he would say or do those things.  I've read that some people make the decision to kill themselves and do it shortly afterward so it can happen very quickly and so they wouldn't have much time to show any outward signs beforehand.  This may be why it seemed so out of the blue for everyone.  He may not have been putting on a happy act, he may have suddenly become that unhappy and killed himself soon afterward.  That squares with some of the theories I have heard from friends.

People who are suicidal behave in many ways and some in fact become quite peaceful and upbeat about life before they do it because they have decided on a way out, it’s so common that it’s listed as a warning sign. 

And often there are no warning signs.

Edited by biakbiak
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Yeah No

Yeah No

Just now, biakbiak said:

People who are suicidal behave in many ways and some in fact become quite peaceful and upbeat about life before they do it because they have decided on a way out.

Yup, I've thought that could be too. 

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Padma

Padma

Everything I've read makes me feel he was very happy and so in love -- until that final week when Asia Argento dumped him. He wrote before that when his first marriage ended he felt like committing suicide then. I think he was that guy -- very emotional -- and he couldn't handle it, plus just a few days from his birthday, feeling old, watching her cavorting around Rome with the new young boyfriend. It makes me sad, because I can't stand her, but he thought she was his "soul mate" and --imo-- just snapped. I had to read Margaret Atwood's poem "The Siren Song" the other day and really thought of Borudain. 

re: Kenya. It seemed so like him to ask, "Where would you like to go?" and boost another show by going out together to Kenya. Fun to see Tony as the "fixer" for a change. But so sad. And there aren't a lot of people you can say, "No one else can do what he did." .

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Yeah No

Yeah No

3 hours ago, Padma said:

Everything I've read makes me feel he was very happy and so in love -- until that final week when Asia Argento dumped him. He wrote before that when his first marriage ended he felt like committing suicide then. I think he was that guy -- very emotional -- and he couldn't handle it, plus just a few days from his birthday, feeling old, watching her cavorting around Rome with the new young boyfriend. It makes me sad, because I can't stand her, but he thought she was his "soul mate" and --imo-- just snapped. I had to read Margaret Atwood's poem "The Siren Song" the other day and really thought of Borudain. 

re: Kenya. It seemed so like him to ask, "Where would you like to go?" and boost another show by going out together to Kenya. Fun to see Tony as the "fixer" for a change. But so sad. And there aren't a lot of people you can say, "No one else can do what he did." .

I would have believed that, but have we established that she dumped him?  Because I haven't read that.  I've instead read that they had an open relationship and her being with other guys was part of their agreement.  I've theorized that perhaps he really didn't like sharing her despite agreeing to it, and seeing those photos was too much in addition to whatever else was making him generally upset.  I thought it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've never believed that he killed himself from general depression, (although he may have been depressed too), but because of some emotionally traumatic event that put him over the edge.

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Padma

Padma

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I would have believed that, but have we established that she dumped him?  Because I haven't read that.  I've instead read that they had an open relationship and her being with other guys was part of their agreement.  I've theorized that perhaps he really didn't like sharing her despite agreeing to it, and seeing those photos was too much in addition to whatever else was making him generally upset.  I thought it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've never believed that he killed himself from general depression, (although he may have been depressed too), but because of some emotionally traumatic event that put him over the edge.

Yes, well, that's what Asia Argento said after he killed himself. No one else has said that, Bourdain never indicated anything like that. His crew and friends have described him as besotted with her, completely in love, and he said that himself. The week before he told someone (mother, Zimmern, I can't remember) that he was the happiest he'd ever been because he was in love.

I think she just didn't want to take responsibility (as usual, but in this case I can't really blame her) and didn't want the hate that would be directed at her by all of Bourdain's fans, world-wide. So she and Rose McGowan gave her that "excuse", even though it doesn't really add up.

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biakbiak

biakbiak

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Padma said:

after he killed himself. No one else has said that, Bourdain never indicated anything like that. His crew and friends have described him as besotted with her, completely in love, and he said that himself. The week before he t

Several close friends David Chang, David Choi, Zimmerman to name three but there are many more that have spoken openly about how he suffered from clinical depression and that he because of his issues provided a network to talk to each other about these issues. 

David Chang’s podcast right after Tony died touched on their shared clinical depression in a monologue about his own issues. As I stated above the Choi podcast is triggering when it comes to his anger at Tony and several others have touched on his issues on social media and essays as his depression helped them out of their own.

Edited by biakbiak
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Macbeth

Macbeth

(edited)
On September 25, 2018 at 12:14 AM, Yeah No said:

  Tony looked pretty rough in his final photos, like he wasn't getting enough sleep, etc.  I found his appearance to be shocking in fact, like he had aged years in a short amount of time.  

Tony looked really ill over the last year. He had aged at least 10 years in 1. I know he had started smoking again, and when you quit and restart smoking this can lead to emphysema. He complained about his lungs in the skiing episode with Eric. 

I was surprised at the ending of this episode that he thought it was time for other people's stories to be heard. Was he planning suicide at this point I can't say.

Maybe he wanted to quit the show. He contemplated quitting 2 years ago to spend time with his daughter.   That's a hard job to do if you are physically unwell. 

His way of keeping fit for a couple of years was a brutal sport where he was punched and kicked all the time. Tony you are 60. WTF. Your body can't take that. 

Yes in his book, Medium Raw, he wrote about being very suicidal after his first marriage ended. A marriage/ relationship that had lasted almost 3 decades and was very codependent. So did Asia have a part in his suicide. I can't say.  But he was still married to his 2nd wife and had no plans on divorcing her.  And he had a daughter. 

Nobody will know why he had committed suicide. But he had survived turbulent relationships. When he broke up with his 2nd wife you could hear his despair in the Argentina episode.

I really feel his physical health played a greater part in it.  But I could be projecting my own health problems. 

Edited by Macbeth
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Yeah No

Yeah No

17 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I really feel his physical health played a greater part in it.  But I could be projecting my own health problems. 

I've read that his travel schedule was unrelenting and that he must have often been exhausted, which is known to contribute to depression.  That plus health issues could have only made his psychological condition worse, so I think you're right about that.

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