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The Sinner's Sinful Speculation

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We don't know whose body they showed in the promo for next week. I think they intend us to assume it is Marin, but it could be Jeffries. (or someone we haven't heard much about yet who is just there as plot development to expose a murder at Mosswood to give authorities a reason to dig deeper... pun intended). I'm not clear on who (if anyone) that guy was beating up in the video... perhaps it's THAT person who is dead, which would explain a lot about some of the weird behavior from him and others that don't live at Mosswood.

The cult could be raising the kid for sacrifice, or it could be that only Vera knows that is/was the intention. I wasn't clear on whther the rest of the cult knew all along that that was the purpose for the calf or at what point they were told. Some of you thought all along Julian was being groomed for sacrifice. I got more of an impression that he was being groomed to become the cult leader eventually.

I can't think of any reason why Jeffries would be living in a storage unit, but Marin might be. Of course, we don't know where the storage unit person went either. I can't even remember now WHERE the storage unit was.... just that there were kid's clothes there.

Where did the book that Marin had underlined come from? The storage unit or the things that Marin's mom kept for no good reason in what had been Marin's room. Speaking of Marin's mom... is she just a garden variety bad mother, or will there be more to her story?

I can't think of any reason for Vera to get rid of Jeffries except primarily to protect Julian, so if it is Jeffries that is dead, what would be the point of kidnapping Julian to save him (unless the fake parents also just wanted to leave anyway, and were taking him to Marin.) If the cult thought the sacrifice would go on with or without Jeffries, then it would make sense for the couple to try to save him. If Vera knew the sacrifice was off, there would be no reason for her to help get Julian out at that point. We don't even know if the rest of the cult knew Jeffries planned to use him like the calf or at what age. (if that was in fact, the intention)

Where did the calf come from? Are they already raising animals as food? That would mean they are already killing them anyway. Or have they mentioned that they are vegetarians? Seems likely that the calf came from mustache guy. Did they actually say?

Someone knows all about this toxic plant. Now maybe they all know because they are living off the land, and education on what is safe and not safe to eat is just part of life at the commune. Or maybe it's been used before.

We also have the house in the woods that is all set up for Jeffries (or as a shrine to him). For all we know Jeffries is still wandering the woods and lives in that house. Or Marin does. Or nobody but Vera even knows it's there.

Dr Jeffries comes across as a sociopath/psychopath, so considering how many of his unborn children might have gotten aborted already to to allow him to have unfettered access to sex with whoever he wants, I don't see the fatherly bond preventing him from killing Julian. His primary purpose in life is power and control over others. But who knows how long the urge to kill was brewing before he killed the calf. Actually, we don't even know it was he that killed the calf... for all we know, after that heart-breaking shot of the wide -eyed calf facing the knife, maybe he called Vera up to do it. Maybe he expected Vera or Marin to do his dirty work killing Julian because he gets off on convincing others to commit violence while he watches, as well as convincing some to allow themselves to be victimized. 

Of course, they don't expect the men to get vasectomies... the cult leader would have to be one of them, and every part of him is sacred or whatever. His "seed" is probably holy even though it doesn't want it to grow into anything. Even when men aren't sociopaths, quite a few seem to think that they are less of a man without semen. We have an entire society full of of double standards around sex, pregnancy and children. There's no reason for this cult to be any different.

My biggest complaint of this show is that with so many long commercial breaks, I have time to fall asleep or get up to go to the kitchen. I don't have DVR so I am never sure whether something I don't know hasn't been revealed yet or whether I missed it.

Edited by slothgirl
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 I can't even remember now WHERE the storage unit was....   Canada

Where did the book that Marin had underlined come from?    Marin's mom

Speaking of Marin's mom... is she just a garden variety bad mother, or will there be more to her story? Marin's mom said Marin was flirting with her boyfriend. Marin's mom doesn't need the competition. Marin doesn't seem to take criticism very well so she might be overreacting to what her mom says. Then again her mom didn't try to get her from the cult when she left.

Or have they mentioned that they are vegetarians? Julian says he is a vegetarian.

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2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

 Marin's mom said Marin was flirting with her boyfriend. Marin's mom doesn't need the competition. Marin doesn't seem to take criticism very well so she might be overreacting to what her mom says. Then again her mom didn't try to get her from the cult when she left.

Yes, I remember that... I'm just wondering if there will turn out to be anything further about Marin's mom in relation to the community's ties to the cult. Why on earth did she save that box of things, and especially the book? Given her attitude about Marin and re-purposing Marin's room, it makes no sense for her to have kept a few things, except either

A) plot device so that we have the book with Julian's name, or

B) the fact that she kept them is relevant to the story beyond just being a way to introduce the book.

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I think the body is Jeffries.  I think Julian is his son (they kinda said this in the last episode).  I think that Vera named the calf Julian.  When the baby was born, Jeffries also insisted that he be named Julian.  Then, when he got older (5ish) Jeffries decided that they needed to sacrifice him for the work to go forward.  Marin kills him and they put the body in the lake, she hightails it out of there and Heather's dad helps her escape to Canada.  Vera raises Julian.

The couple who "abducted" Julian were taking him to meet up with Marin in Canada.

Why Julian killed them is the real mystery.

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1 hour ago, slothgirl said:

Given her attitude about Marin and re-purposing Marin's room, it makes no sense for her to have kept a few things, except either

I don't see it as that weird since the mom didn't kick Marin out, Marin chose to leave. The mother probably knew where she was and probably would have taken her back if Marin appreciates the things that she does for her. Over time, she knew that Marin wasn't coming back home so she saved some of her personal items in case Marin wanted them (not much, one copy paper box worth can sit in the back of a closet forever) and converted the room to her needs.

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I had another thought about Marin's mother, etc..

Didn't Marin say that her mother accused her of carrying on with the mother's boyfriend? What if (as so often happens) it wasn't that Marin was the problem, but that the BF was a creep who raped her. (thus leading to her awful relationship with a mother more concerned with keeping her bf than believing her daughter) And Julian is THAT man's child. Do we have any information about who Marin's mother's boyfriend was?

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8 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I had another thought about Marin's mother, etc..

Didn't Marin say that her mother accused her of carrying on with the mother's boyfriend? What if (as so often happens) it wasn't that Marin was the problem, but that the BF was a creep who raped her. (thus leading to her awful relationship with a mother more concerned with keeping her bf than believing her daughter) And Julian is THAT man's child. Do we have any information about who Marin's mother's boyfriend was?

How creepy would it be if her mother’s boyfriend was Jeffries.

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A few random thoughts just bubbled to the surface for me.

"15 years ago" seems like an important time.  If I'm not mistaken, it's when

  • the girl in the psych ward filed malpractice charges against Dr. Poole
  • Heather's mother died (and Ambrose returned for the funeral)
  • Marin joined Mosswood

"13 years ago" also seems significant

  • the video found in the storage unit is dated 10/15/2005
  • Cattle farmer guy was in the 2005 video (he says in the video that he was thinking of his dad before he went ballistic)
  • Marin was in the 2005 video
  • Julian is 13

Another thought....in the storage unit, there was a paper called something like "Redefining Relationships by Partner Work".   It seems to imply "lovers", but I suppose it could be any type of relationship.  If the former, though, it seems odd given that the commune seems rather sexless now-a-days.

Also, the storage unit...

  • Dr. Jeffries is from Canada; the storage unit is in Canada/Niagra Falls. 
  • There was a bag of children's clothes in the storage unit - presumably for Julian.  I guess that means someone was expecting Julian to arrive there.
  • We know Bess and Adam were heading south rather than north.
  • Could it be different factions at work? Seems like someone entrusted Bess and Andy to take Julian to Canada/Niagra Falls and that someone was waiting for him (which is why he didn't need a bag).  Bess and Adam went in a different direction instead and there was a bit of urgency to the trip.

More about Bess

  • Vera said Bess and Julian liked each other a great deal although Bess developed an unhealthy attachment to him 
  • She sings him a song in the motel that speaks of angels; Julian knows the words.  Not sure if the commune rejects Christianity or other forms of traditional religion but I thought it odd.
  • There were Jung books in the car rather than Jeffries books; although Bess was at Mosswood a very long time so I feel she is a believer
  • Vera plays a recording for Ambrose in which Bess recounts a nightmare of accidentally smothering Julian
  • Both Bess and Vera refer to Julian's nightmare as a nightmare - not as something real
  • We've all been speculating that Julian is Marin's biological child but could it be that the child is Bess's?  We know Marin is pregnant but it doesn't mean she's carrying Julian.  Could be she had an abortion, died on the table (and now in the lake), or whatever. 
Edited by Jextella
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